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#1496417 --- 03/08/17 08:18 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: roundtable]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1351
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: roundtable
Are any of you that surprised by the decision? Isnt this more of the norm around here? Someone comes that has a vision to move our community forward and it gets shut down. Its been going on for decades. I agree, its more likely to be turned into a community chicken coop. So instead of the building getting a second life ad use, it will sit there. Its just so Geneva.......

The right people weren't involved, sometimes all it takes is the right last name grin
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#1496420 --- 03/09/17 04:58 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Kells Offline
Member

Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 89
Why not turn Trinity Church into a place to dump garbage and use drugs?

That's what the State Street property was being used for before a group of volunteers, headed by Mr. Henderson, cleaned the property up and put their awful chickens on it. The same people so against its use as a chicken coop were nowhere to be found when it was being used as a makeshift landfill. They certainly weren't the ones rolling up their sleeves to help clean up used syringes and years of garbage. The people who did that were people who believe in bettering Geneva - not members of the Good Old Boys Club who believe in keeping everything exactly as it always was.

"I give high praise to the members of Trinity Church for trying to find a solution to their problem that would also help our community. Its too bad that some members of the community at members of the ZBA are so short sighted to understand what will happen now - just another empty property in Geneva."

I'm not sure if your fetish is with chickens or Mr. Henderson himself, but your statement above is so ironic I giggled when I read it. Let me re-purpose it for you:

"I give high praise to Mr. Henderson for finding a solution to the problem - a garbage-filled lot used by drug addicts - that would also help our community, by giving members of it a place to plant gardens and grow fresh eggs. Its too bad that some members of the community are so short sighted to understand what would have happened if Mr. Henderson had run in the other direction at the first sign of opposition - just another empty property in Geneva."

It's easy to hate on chickens and the people who want to raise them in their backyards. Remember that when someone wants to do something you DON'T disapprove of, and the same people so opposed to progress in this city step in and try to shut that down, too.

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#1496421 --- 03/09/17 06:05 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Kells]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1351
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
What really surprised me is that they actually turned down a business that would sell booze. City council seems to like booze as a foundation for revitalization. grin
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#1496498 --- 03/10/17 04:49 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 151
My fault. I was trying to draw an extension from (possibly) well-intentioned actions to unintended consequences. I will attempt to be more circumspect.

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#1496514 --- 03/11/17 08:57 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
The Mechanic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/24/11
Posts: 1113
Loc: NY
That's too bad about that church. A viable use comes along and it's quickly shot down. Typical of Geneva.
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#1496515 --- 03/11/17 12:13 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: The Mechanic]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13185
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: The Mechanic
That's too bad about that church. A viable use comes along and it's quickly shot down. Typical of Geneva.

Residents are rightfully concerned about the impact on neighborhood character, reduced property values and the obvious safety, traffic and parking problems that are certain to occur if such a plan were to be enacted.

Typical commenter shortsightedness.
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#1496516 --- 03/11/17 01:22 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 130
Timbo makes a good point. I believe the project included a restaurant, an events center, rentals , and space for the church to reside.  All of this would require a lot of parking space, etc   Did the developer take that into account?  It doesn't seem so.

That neighborhood is a conservative one.   So what.  They're entitled to be whatever they want in consensus.  The project seemed to be way too ambitious for this particular neighborhood.  Especially when one of the key issues for south main residents has always been parking space and traffic.  Why poke the bear?

Perhaps a smaller project, say high end loft space in the church either buy or rent.  I believe there is parking on one side of the church and in the back to accomodate the renter/buyers of large lofts.  There are co-ops that can be formed and the co-op takes care of maintenance, etc.  Or simply a monthly maintenance fee  .Just one less invasive idea, I'm sure there are many others.

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#1496681 --- 03/16/17 04:04 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
pingu Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 610
Loc: Right here.
Both Timbo and Ruby2 have good points. Time to adjust the proposal and get this wonderful property back on the tax roles and being used and maintained.

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#1496809 --- 03/20/17 11:02 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: ruby2]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: ruby2
I believe the project included a restaurant, an events center, rentals , and space for the church to reside.  All of this would require a lot of parking space, etc   Did the developer take that into account?  It doesn't seem so.


parking is easily solved

when wegmans did not have enough space for parking before they built their store they purchased a number of homes in that area to solve the condition

the same approach can be use for this project

the developer just needs to purchase one or two homes on pulteney street that are connected to the back yard area

a new parking area and an exit would be created

individuals would enter from south main street and exit from the new parking area onto pulteney street

the city could require that all those that exit only turn right and that would filter the cars leaving the establishment

if the new tax value for the new project would exceed $500,000 then it would be worth it for the developer to acquire one or two homes on pulteney street to move the project forward

hws just built a large performance center a short distance from this project and there is very limited parking space associated with that project

why was that project not stopped?


Originally Posted By: ruby2
The project seemed to be way too ambitious for this particular neighborhood.  Especially when one of the key issues for south main residents has always been parking space and traffic. 


when hws bought most of the properties on south main street why were the parking and traffic concerns not brought forth then to stop hws from buying the homes and creating the parking problems currently on the south main street area?
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#1496820 --- 03/20/17 12:37 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13185
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
when hws bought most of the properties on south main street why were the parking and traffic concerns not brought forth then to stop hws from buying the homes and creating the parking problems currently on the south main street area?

• Do you have any evidence to support such obvious assumptions?

• On the whole, retail property has a far higher effect on the residential property values, than does that of prestigious, private colleges located outside a large buffer zone.

• I'd bet doughnuts to dollars that, in fact, LESS tax revenue would ultimately be realized, if such a plan were to be instituted. Anyone in-the-know have any expert knowledge on such tax scenarios?

• Only some of the safety/traffic issues would be mitigated with the plan you offer. A whole new set or problems would also be created as a result.

• Nothing says property devaluation better than a parking light and increased traffic flow in a residential setting.

• Not so easily solved, I say.
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#1496857 --- 03/20/17 06:39 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 130
Bluezone, we're talking here about a particular present day project. I don't know the history of south main street parking. Maybe the building of the college started the whole mess. I just know it's been a long standing issue on south main street. It's origins are irrelevant to this discussion. It remains an important negative fact of life for the residents there. There's too much going on with that project. What if it fails?In my opinion, again, it's way too ambitious for that street.

I appreciate your creative way of thinking what with the backyard breakthrough, but I don't think it will solve the matter. I still have to cuddle up with Timbo on this one.

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#1496876 --- 03/21/17 11:16 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Do you have any evidence to support such obvious assumptions?


the parking and traffic problems have become worse after hws acquired most of the properties along south main st

when the homes were residential the familes parked their cars in their driveway
now the hws student/staff cars occupy both sides of the street

Originally Posted By: Timbo
• On the whole, retail property has a far higher effect on the residential property values, than does that of prestigious, private colleges located outside a large buffer zone.


hws has taken 200 acres off the tax rolls
name on retail establishment in the city of geneva that has done that


Originally Posted By: Timbo
• I'd bet doughnuts to dollars that, in fact, LESS tax revenue would ultimately be realized, if such a plan were to be instituted. Anyone in-the-know have any expert knowledge on such tax scenarios?


if the new plan generated $1 that would be far more than is created currently

Originally Posted By: Timbo
• Only some of the safety/traffic issues would be mitigated with the plan you offer. A whole new set or problems would also be created as a result.


do you want to tear down the structure?

Originally Posted By: Timbo
• Nothing says property devaluation better than a parking light and increased traffic flow in a residential setting.


nearly 70% of the property is off the tax rolls

Originally Posted By: Timbo
• Not so easily solved, I say.


so where is your solution?
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#1496877 --- 03/21/17 11:27 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: ruby2]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: ruby2
I don't know the history of south main street parking.


before hws purchased most of the family homes on south main street they were residentials homes

families lived there and they would park their cars in their driveways

now the hws students/staff occupy both sides of the street and the entire length with their cars

Originally Posted By: ruby2
I just know it's been a long standing issue on south main street.


drive down south main street during the summer time when the students are gone

the parking and traffic issues are not there then

Originally Posted By: ruby2
I still have to cuddle up with Timbo on this one.


guardian glass wants their yearly taxes reduced by nearly $2 million

hope you like your next tax bills - call timbo and have him makeup the difference wink
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496921 --- 03/22/17 08:55 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
• Not so easily solved, I say.


so where is your solution?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496931 --- 03/22/17 02:11 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 130
BZ,  "Someone Who Can't See The Forest For The Trees" is someone who is too involved in detail to look at the situation as a whole.  This might apply to you as you pick and choose a sentence here, another there, to make whatever, mischief, or point, you choose at the time, to question or to redirect a topic or discussion, while ignoring entirely the point the individual your are focused on at the moment is making. You're not relating you're obfuscating and under the circumstances your question and answer posts to me and to others, in my opinion, are really for the most part rendered to be seen as nonsense.

My point, put simply, was that I believe the project was way too ambitious for that particular neighborhood.  And I have no doubt that that point was clearly stated in my posts--- I think you know this.

P.S.  this is probably a much stronger response than you deserve from me, but I've been holding back for a long time when it comes to your posts.  No hard feelings really.  Carry on!  Which I'm sure you will.

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#1496939 --- 03/23/17 07:55 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: ruby2]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: ruby2
  This might apply to you as you pick and choose a sentence here, another there


the reason I will 'quote' a sentence from other poster is so that person knows exactly what I am responding to

I was only responding to your post that parking was the main issue

I presented a possible solution to the parking

Originally Posted By: ruby2
I believe the project was way too ambitious for that particular neighborhood.


the church leader wrote into the local newspaper stating that they looked at all the viable options that were available and that was the only that would work for them

the building needs over $1 million in updates that the church can not afford

the developer was willing to spend nearly $6 million on the project

if this project was rejected because of parking then no other developer will come forward with any other projects or spend $6 million only to have the zoning board reject it

without a developer the church will walk away from the building

most likely hws will buy it for $1 and turn it into student housing or college administration offices

the parking and traffic problems will be even worse then and the property will not see any money from taxes

hopefully a better project will present itself before the church walks away from the building

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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496968 --- 03/23/17 09:13 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 130
BZ,  I don't agree with your outlook on this property.  I believe there's hope.  I do think it needs some good marketing to promote it and point out its potential.  You had what I thought was a good idea regarding parking for the larger project.  I also offered a smaller project idea for buyer/renter lofts requiring a few on-site parking spaces.

I would hope there would be other ideas out there, projects that don't require extensive parking accommodations.  A few high end lofts perhaps as I said, modern kitchens, large baths, Jacuzzis, and plenty of open space with moveable walls (on overhead tracks) so the owner/renter can create whatever they want within that open space. 

Maybe a small heated pool for the tenants, steam room, gym.  Oh, and in the cellar individual wine storage units.   Stocked by the seller as a perk!   Oh, and maybe a roof garden or greenhouse and solar panels if feasible.  An area for sitting outside in the summer, read a book, have a glass of wine.  Oh, I better stop here.  I was just dreaming, so satisfying to think of the possibilities.

At any rate, the property needs promotion and selling.  Open lofts with moveable walls reduces cost somewhat.  Perhaps no pool.  I'm sure there are many good ideas out there for that property.  And buyers like doctors from GGH, HWS bigwigs, Cornell, etc.  I know, BZ, all the brass from the tax exempts.  Life is most definitely not fair.

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#1496970 --- 03/23/17 11:40 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
genevaparent Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 163
Loc: Geneva NY
I drove out back of Trinity today and there is a surprising amount of parking. Looks to be around 50 to 70 spots with room to create more. How much parking will the proposed project take? Its right on the cloverleaf for easy access. There are other businesses in the area. A B&B is across the street and the historical society is nearby too. There is another B&B a few doors down. The house directly across the street looks like a junkyard. Why hasn't someone turned them in for some rule against storing garbage in your front yard. This is not a quiet residential neighborhood. Route 14 is a major roadway with lots of truck and car traffic. There are streetlights all along the road. The students walk this area all the time. There is only one word for the ones that let the project slip by, idiots....

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#1496980 --- 03/24/17 07:57 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: ruby2]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: ruby2
I believe there's hope. 


as do we

the neighbors who have concerns about the project can set up a fund raiser (go fund me...) to collect the money for the repairs that need to most immediate attention to help the church stay there for a longer period until a valid project comes forth

the homes in that area have values around $500,000 each
the neighbors should be able to come up with some money to help out the church in the short term

the individual that started the musselman and now does the seneca7 running race could set up a fund raiser thru those events to gather money to help the church with repairs that need the most immediate attention

he lives in that area


Originally Posted By: ruby2
You had what I thought was a good idea regarding parking for the larger project. 


I offered the parking idea as a suggestion becuase hws has acquired numerous homes that they tore down for their dorms and other buidlings

wegmans tore down a number of homes in order to even have a place to build their store/parking in a residential neighborhood area

Originally Posted By: ruby2
I also offered a smaller project idea for buyer/renter lofts requiring a few on-site parking spaces.


that may be a valid project but a developer looks at the numbers

if the lofts do not cover the current cost for repairs, the costs to covert to lofts and the future carrying costs then the developer will move on to another profitable project

Originally Posted By: ruby2
A few high end lofts perhaps as I said, modern kitchens, large baths, Jacuzzis, and plenty of open space with moveable walls (on overhead tracks) so the owner/renter can create whatever they want within that open space.


the rent on a few  high end lofts would need to be very high to cover all the current repairs (over $1 million),costs to change to lofts, operating costs, taxes, insurance, maintainence, repairs...

would the renters be willing to pay $4,000 or more per month for a high end loft when they can buy a home for less money per month?

it all comes down to the numbers when a developer has to put up his/her own money to finance the project

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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496982 --- 03/24/17 08:13 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Timbo
• Not so easily solved, I say.


so where is your solution?


timbo - you have had 4 days for a solution and have failed to present one
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