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#1496039 --- 03/02/17 11:56 AM Trinity Church Reuse
pingu Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 610
Loc: Right here.
Looks like the zoning board has rejected the congregations effort to at least save the property and make it into something that lets it be used and not bought by Hobart. Today's article in the FLTimes mentions that one of the reasons it was rejected was because it would affect the character of the neighborhood. Really? No kidding! But did any of those objecting really think about this? NO. All they were concerned about was keeping things the way they were. Oh no, we don't want more people using Trinity Church! It was so quiet and peaceful with the dwindling congregants. I can't deal with more traffic. Uh, hey dipstick -- you live on Main Street.

People need to wake up and understand that things don't stay the same as they did when you were a kid. Times change, neighborhoods change. Goodness knows Geneva has changed since I grew up here in the 60's and 70's! Some good, some not so great. On some level more traffic means that your city is actually having to deal with a good problem to have!

What I see is a church group that instead of hanging on until the building is falling down and no one is coming to mass, they are looking for ways to move on and leave what is a great building to another set of people that will appreciate and take care of the place. The uses they are proposing would not be a big change from when this church had a full house every mass and on holidays. Come on.

Trinity is too much a part of Geneva to just let it go without a fight. If people were soo worried about property values, how much would an vacant church property be helping your assessed value?

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#1496056 --- 03/02/17 01:32 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
justacitizen Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 51
Very well said Pingu. I can't imagine how the transformation of Trinity Church would do anything to harm the "character" of the neighborhood. S. Main Street has been a college area along with several Bed and Breakfasts that have opened in the past few years. Maybe the owners of those places are afraid of competition.

I give high praise to the members of Trinity Church for trying to find a solution to their problem that would also help our community. Its too bad that some members of the community at members of the ZBA are so short sighted to understand what will happen now - just another empty property in Geneva.

Maybe they should turn it into a chicken coop - seems that the City always gives Mr. Henderson his way.

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#1496073 --- 03/02/17 07:22 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
genevaparent Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 163
Loc: Geneva NY
It was very exciting that someone from outside of Geneva thought enough of our community to want to invest time and money here to create a new business. A repurposed church into vibrant property sounds great. How many uses does an old church have? Maybe get it back on the tax rolls? One could only hope. As a church Trinity was great in its day but now is done. It's amazing they have held on as long as they did. The ZBA needs to get their heads out of their collective a@#es and recognize opportunity when it knocks. Kudos to the Trinity members who found the solution! I'm sorry our city abandoned you.

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#1496080 --- 03/02/17 08:28 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Here's Johnny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 825
Loc: New York
Too bad to see that grand facility not move forward

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#1496096 --- 03/03/17 05:42 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 151
I think ZBA did the right thing; you can only stretch zoning so far.

It's amazing the lengths the Trinity group were willing to go to in order to avoid merging with the healthy, growing congregation at St. Peter's, an idea that was floated over 5 years ago. The writing was on the wall, having occurred already with the Presbyterian and Catholic churches, but they chose to ignore the obvious.

I doubt if HWS would want the facility since they have their own chapel, but it was already off the tax rolls.

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#1496135 --- 03/03/17 01:35 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Tacitus]
pingu Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 610
Loc: Right here.
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I think ZBA did the right thing; you can only stretch zoning so far.

It's amazing the lengths the Trinity group were willing to go to in order to avoid merging with the healthy, growing congregation at St. Peter's, an idea that was floated over 5 years ago. The writing was on the wall, having occurred already with the Presbyterian and Catholic churches, but they chose to ignore the obvious.

I doubt if HWS would want the facility since they have their own chapel, but it was already off the tax rolls.
Just trying to grasp what it is your trying to say. The two Catholic churches (St. Stephens and St. Francis) are still here and the Trinity folks have been trying not to just abandon their church but find a use for it. So, they merge with St. Peter's. Great. So what do you do with the property?

Stretch zoning? what do you mean by that? A use variance has clear and deliberate criteria and I believe Trinity could have viably argued each and every point of it. This should have been tabled until public feedback was received and I bet the next hearing would have been more positive. Zoning is just rules put forth at a set point in time based on what a certain group thinks is in the best interests of those having a stake in the outcome.

So again, the results will speak for themselves but I guess some don't mind a vacant property rotting away in their neighborhood.

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#1496136 --- 03/03/17 03:01 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 151
50 parishioners and $1.5 million in repairs doesn't sound like a great start on the road to survival. By stretch I mean it's a huge change from the original pattern of use and the effect it would have on the neighborhood, as many in the neighborhood remarked at the meeting. If Trinity could have argued these points, why didn't they do so? Public feedback was received - at the meeting. How may do-overs would you like?

Assuming the property would rot is certainly not a foregone conclusion, but it's the best scare tactic they could come up with.

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#1496142 --- 03/03/17 07:24 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
roundtable Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 112
Loc: new york state
Are any of you that surprised by the decision? Isnt this more of the norm around here? Someone comes that has a vision to move our community forward and it gets shut down. Its been going on for decades. I agree, its more likely to be turned into a community chicken coop. So instead of the building getting a second life ad use, it will sit there. Its just so Geneva.......

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#1496147 --- 03/04/17 07:37 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
764379255223 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 76
Loc: Ontario County
Once again a positive for Geneva has been shot down. What now? Why save a historic beautiful building?? Putting the property back on the tax rolls and bring people to Geneva, who wants that?? If the building is torn down then what? A big empty non tax paying area. Maybe a high rise apartment building. What would the parking situation look like then? The church will leave and at some point in the future this situation will keep reappearing until the neighbors may get something they feel is worse.

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#1496198 --- 03/05/17 07:13 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: 764379255223]
justacitizen Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 51
I wonder how happy the S. Main Street population will be when their neighbors can all raise chickens? Its coming - Mr. Henderson and Mr. Camera are trying to get the City's ok to have chickens anywhere in Geneva.

I also wonder how much the denial from the Zoning Board had to do with the recent uproar over the way they "fired" the chairman? Is it all just dirty rotten politics?

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#1496215 --- 03/05/17 02:57 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: justacitizen]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1351
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Hobart probably wants a parking lot grin
_________________________
May I suggest you go back to where you got your education and ask for a refund.

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#1496219 --- 03/05/17 03:31 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 151
First Mr. Camera gouged us for sidewalk repairs, then he wanted to put chickens and composting next door, now he's upping what we will pay for trash pickup. Soon he'll be shooting laser beams down the street to make sure our trash containers all line up properly.

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#1496220 --- 03/05/17 03:33 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Libertas Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 9
Dear Everyone:

I don't have an opinion either way about the reuse of Trinity Church. I love the building, its architecture and also wonder what lies ahead... I would have to see it become vacant and not maintained. It is my hope that a solution arises to avoid blight.

I think it is important to recognize that the ZBA was tasked with granting a use variance, which is one of the hardest variances to obtain pursuant to state law (General City). I have attached a weblink to a publication created by NYS that is titled "Zoning Board of Appeals."

https://www.dos.ny.gov/lg/publications/Zoning_Board_of_Appeals.pdf

State law does "tie" the hands of local officials many times. It probably would have been easier to amend the Zoning Law then try to grant a use variance.

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#1496221 --- 03/05/17 03:35 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Libertas Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 9
Sorry... I made a typographical error. I meant to say "I would hate to see it become vacant and not maintained." My apologies.

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#1496267 --- 03/06/17 12:26 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Tacitus]
justacitizen Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 51
When are the citizens of Geneva going to stand up to people like Camera? Tacitus is so right. First it was sidewalk repairs and now he wants chickens running all over Geneva. And he is also trying to make the trash haulers pay more which means we pay more. Yet as I have said before, no one seems to say a word.

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#1496284 --- 03/06/17 08:40 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: justacitizen]
genevaparent Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 163
Loc: Geneva NY
I'd like to put in a word of support for Mr Camera. Apparently you have never walked or ran in Geneva. The sidewalks need help. I walk regularly and have seen a very nice improvement!

Chickens, Chickens, Chickens?? I just don't get why it is such a big deal. Many cities across the country allow chickens without apparent issue. If the city allows backyard hens how many do you think we will have? Are you expecting 50% of the city residents to get hens? I think we would do better to ban dogs. They leave there duty all over the sidewalks, they bark, they bite. Some breeds may even raise your homeowners insurance. They are a menace to society as we know it. The may kill your children. They are ruining our way of life and must be stopped!! Chickens are be much safer as pets as they are much less hazardous. I may get a chicken;)

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#1496287 --- 03/07/17 05:19 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: genevaparent]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1351
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
I would like to put a word of support in for Council man Camera too. His policies have probably driven more middle class people out of Geneva than anything we have seen in years. I think you will see a major population and commercial shift to the Town of Seneca in the very near future, actually it may have already begun. Someone needs to ask, "with the price of eggs at current lows, who in their right mind would raise chickens " ?
_________________________
May I suggest you go back to where you got your education and ask for a refund.

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#1496288 --- 03/07/17 05:36 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 151
I think the rules for raising chickens legally would probably stop most would-be chicken ranchers. It would be interesting to see the rules applied to current chicken owners to see if they comply.

Regarding sidewalks, I think the frustration is due to the fact that the trees the city plants in the parkways are frequently the cause of lifted sidewalks, and yet it's up to the homeowners to fix them. Maybe we should call this the Camera Tree Tax? We could add it to the list with the Camera Trash Tax, the Camera Poultry Policy and the Camera Compost Compact.

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#1496291 --- 03/07/17 06:46 AM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: Tacitus]
IHHSG Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 102
Loc: 14456
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
I would like to put a word of support in for Council man Camera too. His policies have probably driven more middle class people out of Geneva than anything we have seen in years.


Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Maybe we should call this the Camera Tree Tax? We could add it to the list with the Camera Trash Tax, the Camera Poultry Policy and the Camera Compost Compact.


Camera is not a dictator. Policies are adopted by City Council vote. Maybe it's just easier to blame one person than it is to blame all of City Council and the Mayor?

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#1496317 --- 03/07/17 05:30 PM Re: Trinity Church Reuse [Re: pingu]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 151
IHHSG is correct - it took the entire council to accept these mandates. But Camera was at the forefront of these ideas, so I still think he should be singled out. What's next - a drive to get rid of plastic shopping bags?

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