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#1490907 --- 10/20/16 08:07 AM D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud
Auburnite13021 Offline
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Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
The Cayuga County D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud cases and hasn't done so all year. D.A. Budelmann wants Social Services to pay him to prosecute these cases. As the county struggles with revenue shortfalls, as the county considers a motor vehicle tax and at a time when Budelmann has gotten a hefty raise on another unfunded state mandate that brings county district attorney's salaries in line with county judges, Budelmann wants another county agency to pay his office for doing the job he is already paid to do.

There are numerous people who can be prosecuted right now. There is thousands and thousands of dollars that can be recovered. Thousands of taxpayer dollars that went to people who defrauded the system and the county isn't getting that back because the D.A. won't prosecute these cases.

The taxpayers get shafted because the D.A. is throwing a temper tantrum because he thinks Social Services should pay him extra. That's like paying a fire department tax and the fire department won't put out your fire until you pay them extra.

Concerned taxpayers should call the D.A.'s office and tell Budelmann to do his job for which he was elected to do.

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#1490923 --- 10/20/16 10:57 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Auburnite13021 Offline
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Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
http://auburnpub.com/news/local/cayuga-c...7f32268c38.html

And so it continues. The county is looking to tax the residents even more and yet they do nothing about the D.A. not prosecuting welfare fraud and recovering all that stolen money. All because the D.A. wants Social Services to pay him to do his job and prosecute fraud cases.

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#1490985 --- 10/22/16 08:16 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Mean Gene Offline
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Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2616
Loc: Yates County
WOW--The Cayuga County D.A.'s salary is fixed by the state. He makes the same as every other county D.A. in the state. Even tiny Yates County's D.A. prosecutes welfare fraud cases that are referred from the Yates County S.O.

In the past defendants are charged with a felony and routinely allowed to plead to a misdemeanor along with full restitution.

The taxpayers should send the D.A. packing come election time if he is refusing to do his job!!!
_________________________
"Rational arguments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people"

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#1491004 --- 10/23/16 07:33 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Auburnite13021 Offline
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Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
Since he refuses to prosecute the county is losing out on recovering all that money that these people stole. It's outrageous. The county legislators are quick to look for ways to keep taxing us but don't seem to be doing anything about this problem.

I'm hoping to get the word out so come election time the people will choose a person who will do their job.

Thank you sir for weighing in on this.

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#1491009 --- 10/23/16 09:14 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 12893
Loc: CNY

Since the National Average for welfare fraud is 1.9%, and since prosecuting those close to or below the poverty rate (as those who MAY be guilty of such fraud almost certainly ARE), would it be to the benefit of taxpayers to expend yet more money prosecuting such cases, assuming the $ could even be recouped. Legal costs are most likely not recoverable.

While fraud of this type is certainly a serious issue, not ALL fraud is created equally. Corporate and Political Fraud costs taxpayers an order of magnitude to that of Welfare fraud.

Perhaps the county sees no advantage in spending dollars in search of dimes. Even if to make a public example.

I submit that prosecuting the larger fraud would be a matter of practicality, justice and the greater good.

Just a thought.
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#1491020 --- 10/23/16 10:47 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Auburnite13021 Offline
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Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
The D.A. gets paid good money to prosecute crime. He shouldn't avoid prosecuting these crimes because he thinks Social Services should pay his office to do so.

As Mean Gene said these people pay restitution and that goes back to the county since they stole it to begin with.

I shouldn't have to pay higher taxes because these thieves won't be prosecuted, the D.A. feels the need to extort money from another government agency and the county legislators refuse to do anything about it.

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#1491023 --- 10/23/16 11:40 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Auburnite13021 Offline
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Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
When an elected official who gets paid to do a job and refuses to do that job because he is trying to get more money out of another government agency is extortion. It's corruption.

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#1491043 --- 10/23/16 07:35 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 12893
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Auburnite13021
When an elected official who gets paid to do a job and refuses to do that job because he is trying to get more money out of another government agency is extortion. It's corruption.

Assuming that that's in fact, what's going on, here.
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#1491053 --- 10/23/16 09:30 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
LittleKing Offline
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Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 163
Originally Posted By: Auburnite13021
When an elected official who gets paid to do a job and refuses to do that job because he is trying to get more money out of another government agency is extortion. It's corruption.



It doesn't sound like he's asking for a raise at all. It sounds like he's asking for more money in his budget to fund prosecutions caused by another agency's failure to properly safeguard public funds in the first place.

Which one of your relatives is planning to run against him? That's what this is all about isn't it?

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#1491054 --- 10/23/16 10:02 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: LittleKing]
Auburnite13021 Offline
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Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
Originally Posted By: LittleKing


It doesn't sound like he's asking for a raise at all. It sounds like he's asking for more money in his budget to fund prosecutions caused by another agency's failure to properly safeguard public funds in the first place.

Which one of your relatives is planning to run against him? That's what this is all about isn't it?


He already got a nice raise. Auburn PD doesn't pay him extra to prosecute crimes. Neither do Weedsport or Port Byron Police. He gets paid to prosecute crimes. If he needs more money in his budget then he should request an increase and be able to justify it.

Social Services has people in place who work to properly safeguard public funds by building cases against those who stole those public funds. To do so they need the D.A. to do his job for which he is paid to do and prosecute those who stole.

What this is all about is the D.A. who is not doing his job. What this is all about is the county looking to raise fees and taxes when there is thousands upon thousands of dollars that can be recovered and returned to the county coffers if the D.A. would simply do his job.

I do not have any relatives that are attorney's who would run for D.A.

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#1491075 --- 10/24/16 09:14 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Mean Gene Offline
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Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2616
Loc: Yates County
I would guess the Cayuga County Sheriff has someone who investigates welfare fraud. There usually are not a ton of these cases. Its a paper trail that usually makes the case. Not difficult to prosecute and plea bargin. It seems strange the D.A. will not pursue these cases. Maybe its his way of asking for more staff or ADA's.

In any event, refusing to prosecute cases because of his perceived staff problems is no excuse.

As far as Timbo's comment about spending more money prosecuting smaller crimes. The D.A.'s budget is set, it doesn't cost the county anything other than a good work ethic by the D.A.to move these cases forward.
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"Rational arguments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people"

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#1491084 --- 10/24/16 11:31 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
newsman38 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4755
Loc: Fourth Estate
Cayuga County Legislature refuses welfare-fraud prosecution grant funds

AUBURN — Following a heated discussion, Cayuga County legislators voted 5-1 not to accept Crimes Against Revenue Program grant funds at the Ways and Means Committee meeting Wednesday night. Legislator Paul Pinckney voted for the resolution, and Legislator Patrick Mahunik was absent.

As a result, three people employed through the CARP grant will be let go including an assistant district attorney, a grant administrator and an investigator. The county had already served their termination letters, stipulating that it was subject to the vote, said County Administrator Suzanne Sinclair.

Sinclair and District Attorney Jon Budelmann have been at odds over the bottom line: whether the CARP grant costs the county money, or brings it in.

Budelmann said the CARP grant funds awarded for 2016 equaled approximately $107,000 a year for three years, totaling about $321,000. But he said the $107,000 would only carry the program until July. He planned to look for other grants and funding to sustain it the rest of the year.

Budelmann proposed accepting the grant, using the first year's allotment and revisiting whether the county wanted to continue its participation prior to July. But the committee voted not to accept the grant, leaving the county Legislature responsible for about $35,000 in salary and benefits for the three employees' work in 2016.

Working to trim an approximately $1.5 million deficit, Legislator Mark Farrell said the county relies on Social Services to turn those unqualified for public assistance away. While Budelmann argued that by prosecuting these kinds of crimes his office saves taxpayers millions of dollars, legislators argued that preventive methods also save taxpayers money.

As far as revenue is concerned, Sinclair and Budelmann have different calculation methods with opposite outcomes. Sinclair has the county coming short by $23,704.13 in 2015 and by a projected $74,000 in 2016. Budelmann has the county saving about $22,260 in 2015.

The discrepancies seem to be whether or not to include reimbursement funds from the Department of Social Services. But Sinclair argued that DSS does not reimburse the district attorney's office for those things covered by the CARP grant.

Budelmann, however, said his staff through the grant funds have assisted with DSS cases, which his office would not have had the manpower to take on. Therefore, he argued, that revenue should be included.

"These claims and the work underlying them are a direct result of the personnel funded with this grant and we would not have these prosecutions without the personnel generating them," he said in an email to legislators Wednesday afternoon.

One thing that is consistent — monies brought in from restitution are divvied up with the state. While the DA's office brought in about $39,000 in restitution in 2015, the county received a little over $4,000.

Gwendolyn Craig | gwendolyn.craig@lee.net
GwenCraig2
Feb 17, 2016

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#1491087 --- 10/24/16 11:57 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Mean Gene]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 12893
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Mean Gene
I would guess the Cayuga County Sheriff has someone who investigates welfare fraud. There usually are not a ton of these cases. Its a paper trail that usually makes the case. Not difficult to prosecute and plea bargin. It seems strange the D.A. will not pursue these cases. Maybe its his way of asking for more staff or ADA's.

In any event, refusing to prosecute cases because of his perceived staff problems is no excuse.

As far as Timbo's comment about spending more money prosecuting smaller crimes. The D.A.'s budget is set, it doesn't cost the county anything other than a good work ethic by the D.A.to move these cases forward.

Yes, but I strongly suspect that the cost-to-benefit payout is poor at best when compared to other likely prosecutions. There are indeed other costs... the limited number of available work hours in a day to prosecute being perhaps most valuable.

I would submit that most DA's are already overworked in relation to their resources.
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#1491107 --- 10/24/16 07:53 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Timbo]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2616
Loc: Yates County
There are good D.A.'s and poor ones, just like all professions. I have seen both at work. Now that I have seen the grant proposal I can see both sides of the argument. In the past, Yates county DSS has procured a grant that went towards a Sheriff's Investigator position to investigate potential welfare fraud cases.

Being familiar with these types of cases I can say there is usually a paper trail "gotcha" which causes defendants, arrested by police to jump at a plea bargin which includes restitution. There is not a ton of work involved from a prosecution standpoint. Offer a Misdemeanor plea, probation and restitution.
_________________________
"Rational arguments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people"

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#1491108 --- 10/24/16 08:21 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Mean Gene]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 12893
Loc: CNY

What are the two sides of the argument, as you see them?

An abbreviated rundown of the grant proposal would also be helpful.

Thx.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1491138 --- 10/25/16 02:16 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2616
Loc: Yates County
The D.A. obviously thinks its a great thing that he could have an additional ADA, an Investigator and a clerical position if they accepted the grant.

The down side is the county will have to pick up part of the cost as it does not cover all three for the whole year. Also it appears that if they accept the grant the state gets the lions share of restitution that is retrieved.

Its the Sheriff's department's job to investigate crimes. They should apply for a grant thru DSS to get money to investigate fraud if they think it is an issue that requires someone full time to investigate DSS cases. In the mean time I believe the D.A. will handle any DSS fraud arrest that comes across his desk. He would be very foolish to say he wouldn't prosecute them seeing how it is his job to do so.
_________________________
"Rational arguments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people"

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#1491148 --- 10/25/16 03:04 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Hot Burrito Offline
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Registered: 04/17/00
Posts: 740
Loc: Tiajuna Flats
Is there any document showing the DA really said he wouldn't prosecute these cases without the grant? As I read the one article it sounds like he said the funding and staff cuts would impact his ability to do it, but that's not the same thing.

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#1491158 --- 10/25/16 06:11 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: newsman38]
Auburnite13021 Offline
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Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
Originally Posted By: newsman38


Working to trim an approximately $1.5 million deficit, Legislator Mark Farrell said the county relies on Social Services to turn those unqualified for public assistance away. While Budelmann argued that by prosecuting these kinds of crimes his office saves taxpayers millions of dollars, legislators argued that preventive methods also save taxpayers money.


So even Budelmann said that between prosecuting welfare fraud and the preventative methods done by Social Services will save the taxpayers millions but yet he won't prosecute welfare fraud. Sounds like he is having a hissy fit because he couldn't get his grant. To me it doesn't seem that this grant is fiscally conducive to the revenue it would bring in. The legislators had a hard choice to make but they made it based on fiscally sound principles in lean times.

All the county departments are doing more with less. I hear the sheriff's department is short handed as is Auburn PD. It's unfortunate but these are lean times.

The D.A. shouldn't be allowed to extort money from another county agency to do his job. Especially at a time when the county is looking to raise taxes and fees. To refuse to do the job he is paid to do until Social Services pays him is robbing Peter to pay Paul.

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#1491161 --- 10/25/16 06:15 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Auburnite13021 Offline
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Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
It's extortion and corruption. We saw some long time state politicians get convicted for their pay to play schemes.

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#1491162 --- 10/25/16 06:45 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Mean Gene]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 12893
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Mean Gene
The D.A. obviously thinks its a great thing that he could have an additional ADA, an Investigator and a clerical position if they accepted the grant.

The down side is the county will have to pick up part of the cost as it does not cover all three for the whole year. Also it appears that if they accept the grant the state gets the lions share of restitution that is retrieved.

Its the Sheriff's department's job to investigate crimes. They should apply for a grant thru DSS to get money to investigate fraud if they think it is an issue that requires someone full time to investigate DSS cases. In the mean time I believe the D.A. will handle any DSS fraud arrest that comes across his desk. He would be very foolish to say he wouldn't prosecute them seeing how it is his job to do so.

Then what is the duty of The NY State Human Resources Administration, Bureau of Fraud Investigation, if not to investigate and prosecute these cases, or are they merely the state investigative arm?
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1491182 --- 10/26/16 08:59 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Timbo]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2616
Loc: Yates County
I would guess they have oversight of the County DSS agencies. Each DSS agency has their own people who's job is to screen applicants for services to make sure they don't dole out assistance to those who don't deserve it.

Some may do it better than others!!!
_________________________
"Rational arguments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people"

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#1491196 --- 10/26/16 04:32 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
dj205 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 990
Loc: in my mind
Isn't it DSS's job to make sure that recipients are legit? Make DSS accountable, don't lay it all on the DA. FYI, I don't know your DA, just a layman's wonder.
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#1491200 --- 10/26/16 06:12 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
retired wrench Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 47
Loc: New York State
Even if prosecution couldn't recover the funds, it would prevent these leeches from getting more and, maybe, discourage others. Not prosecuting invites more of the same.
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#1491202 --- 10/26/16 06:55 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: retired wrench]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 12893
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: retired wrench
Even if prosecution couldn't recover the funds, it would prevent these leeches from getting more and, maybe, discourage others. Not prosecuting invites more of the same.

That's interesting, because what I've been reading, is that most data indicates criminal prosecution of "welfare" fraud has virtually NO effect in preventing future fraud. The vast majority of fraud comes from those employed within the ranks of DHHS itself, landlords or from businesses that serve those who collect such benefits.

There's some eye-opening information from the New York
Office of the Welfare Inspector General (2015 Report) which clearly supports this:

https://ig.ny.gov/sites/default/files/pdfs/OWIG-2015-Annual-Report.pdf

Wrench, you especially should educate yourself on who the TRUE criminals usually are in these situations... "Entitlement programs, from food stamps to Medicare, don't see unusually high cheating rates -- and the culprits are usually managers and executives, not 'welfare queens.'"

Read Up:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...t-fraud/278690/
http://www.inquisitr.com/1844601/ny-welfare-fraud-30-arrested-for-food-stamp-fraud-more-to-come/
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/econ...d-of-efficienty
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1491225 --- 10/27/16 09:50 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: retired wrench]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
<!-- -->
Originally Posted By: retired wrench
Even if prosecution couldn't recover the funds, it would prevent these leeches from getting more and, maybe, discourage others. Not prosecuting invites more of the same.


Prosecution would recover the stolen money and these leeches can be closed down for a period of time because they stole. Thus saving taxpayers more money.

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#1491227 --- 10/27/16 09:57 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: dj205]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
<!-- -->
Originally Posted By: dj205
Isn't it DSS's job to make sure that recipients are legit? Make DSS accountable, don't lay it all on the DA.I don't know your DA, just a layman's wonder.


Yes, the caseworkers determine eligibility. When one lies and gets benefits they aren't eligible for it becomes a fraud issue. DSS Investigators do their job and send the cases to the D.A.'s office for prosecution. Again, the problem is the D.A. has simply refused to prosecute these cases. Everyone else did their jobs so now it's time for the D.A. to do his job.

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#1491229 --- 10/27/16 10:06 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
If the D.A. doesn't want to do his job for which he is already getting paid to do and prosecute these thieves then he can simply authorize DSS to go after these thieves. DSS can recoup the money and shut these people down in lieu of prosecution. But the D.A. has even flat out refused to even authorize DSS to do this.

Why you ask? Because the D.A. thinks another county agency should pay him to prosecute these crimes and pay him to authorize DSS to go after these people. It's absurd!

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#1491250 --- 10/27/16 02:49 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 12893
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Auburnite13021
If the D.A. doesn't want to do his job for which he is already getting paid to do and prosecute these thieves then he can simply authorize DSS to go after these thieves. DSS can recoup the money and shut these people down in lieu of prosecution. But the D.A. has even flat out refused to even authorize DSS to do this.

Why you ask? Because the D.A. thinks another county agency should pay him to prosecute these crimes and pay him to authorize DSS to go after these people. It's absurd!

Since you seem to know the mind of the DA, what facts do you possess regarding the identities and nature of the alleged frauds, since you surely must know these facts, as well?

- Understandably curious.
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#1491258 --- 10/27/16 03:38 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
The Mechanic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/24/11
Posts: 1081
Loc: NY
They should arrest all these leeches who are stealing. More people too lazy to get a job.
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#1491270 --- 10/27/16 04:34 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: The Mechanic]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 12893
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: The Mechanic
They should arrest all these leeches who are stealing. More people too lazy to get a job.

They DO have jobs. They're employees of DHHS, sleazy local business owners and criminal landlords who scam the system while renting to benefit recipients. whistle

And FYI... something like 80% of those collecting public assistance are employed adults over the age of 40. And most of those are employed full time.

And THAT group is FAR-and-away the least likely to commit welfare fraud. It's the wealthy and middle-class working who account for most of the fraud.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1491302 --- 10/28/16 03:00 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Tiger Shark Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/16
Posts: 589
He's not going to understand any of that, Timbo. His brain literally will not allow him to. He is hard-wired into his small-town world view where everything is black and white. It is just so much easier for him to burp about welfare queens being too lazy to get a job. It's a convenient myth. The truth is too confusing.
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#1491314 --- 10/28/16 10:37 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Timbo]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
Originally Posted By: Timbo


And THAT group is FAR-and-away the least likely to commit welfare fraud. It's the wealthy and middle-class working who account for most of the fraud.[/size]


So how does the wealthy and working middle class get welfare when they don't qualify and therefore not eligible?

I am talking about food stamps and public assistance. Not what you perceive to be corporate welfare given out by career politicians for generous contributions and their pay to play mentality. Although that is detrimental to society it's not illegal like what people are doing where they lie to steal welfare from the county.

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#1491315 --- 10/28/16 10:43 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Tiger Shark]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
<!-- -->
Originally Posted By: Tiger Shark
He's not going to understand any of that, Timbo. His brain literally will not allow him to. He is hard-wired into his small-town world view where everything is black and white. It is just so much easier for him to burp about welfare queens being too lazy to get a job. It's a convenient myth. The truth is too confusing.


Yes, I don't understand why the D.A. won't do his job and prosecute these thieves. I don't understand why, if the D.A. won't prosecute these thieves, why he doesn't authorize Social Services to go after them. They can get taxpayer money back and shut these thieves down.

Born and raised small town. That gives me a pretty good insight into what is happening in my community.

I doubt you are some worldly traveler. You sound more like one of these system suckers who doesn't want his handouts to disappear.


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#1491319 --- 10/28/16 11:00 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Tiger Shark Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/16
Posts: 589
Yeah, I know you were born and raised in a small town. You don't have to tell me. I also wonder if at any time in your life you've left that town.

And because I disagree with you that makes me a "system sucker"? I own my own business and make far more than you ever will, no public assistance needed. Thing is, the vast majority of welfare recipients ARE working, many full-time, for companies like Wal-Mart, which refuse to pay them a wage befitting a human being or offer them a shred of insurance. These people are forced to seek public assistance to make ends meet. Personally I would rather their employer handled that, instead of the tax payers. But that's a bit over your head. It's just easier for you to burp about welfare queens and never once take a look at the bigger picture.

And I find it hilarious that you have no qualms with corporate welfare simply because it is technically legal. Slavery was legal. Women barred from voting was legal. Legal does not equal morally sound.
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#1491320 --- 10/28/16 11:03 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Tiger Shark Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/16
Posts: 589
So put on your big girl panties and call up the D.A.'s office and ask them why they are refusing to pursue these cases. Crying a river about it on these forums won't change anything.
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Hillbilly tears taste like champagne

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#1491326 --- 10/28/16 11:52 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 12893
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Auburnite13021
Originally Posted By: Timbo

And THAT group is FAR-and-away the least likely to commit welfare fraud. It's the wealthy and middle-class working who account for most of the fraud.[/size]

So how does the wealthy and working middle class get welfare when they don't qualify and therefore not eligible?

I am talking about food stamps and public assistance. Not what you perceive to be corporate welfare given out by career politicians for generous contributions and their pay to play mentality. Although that is detrimental to society it's not illegal like what people are doing where they lie to steal welfare from the county.

If you'd have taken the time to actually read the linked information in the state's own report that I provided above, you wouldn't be asking such embarrassingly silly questions.

Now go back and and review them carefully and thoroughly. We'll wait for you to catch up with the rest of the class.



Here's my previous post in it's entirety:

Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: retired wrench
Even if prosecution couldn't recover the funds, it would prevent these leeches from getting more and, maybe, discourage others. Not prosecuting invites more of the same.

That's interesting, because what I've been reading, is that most data indicates criminal prosecution of "welfare" fraud has virtually NO effect in preventing future fraud. The vast majority of fraud comes from those employed within the ranks of DHHS itself, landlords or from businesses that serve those who collect such benefits.

There's some eye-opening information from the New York
Office of the Welfare Inspector General (2015 Report) which clearly supports this:

https://ig.ny.gov/sites/default/files/pdfs/OWIG-2015-Annual-Report.pdf

Wrench, you especially should educate yourself on who the TRUE criminals usually are in these situations... "Entitlement programs, from food stamps to Medicare, don't see unusually high cheating rates -- and the culprits are usually managers and executives, not 'welfare queens.'"

Read Up:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...t-fraud/278690/
http://www.inquisitr.com/1844601/ny-welfare-fraud-30-arrested-for-food-stamp-fraud-more-to-come/
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/econ...d-of-efficienty
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1491348 --- 10/28/16 03:23 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Tiger Shark]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
<!-- -->
Originally Posted By: Tiger Shark
Yeah, I know you were born and raised in a small town. You don't have to tell me. I also wonder if at any time in your life you've left that town.

And because I disagree with you that makes me a "system sucker"? I own my own business and make far more than you ever will, no public assistance needed. Thing is, the vast majority of welfare recipients ARE working, many full-time, for companies like Wal-Mart, which refuse to pay them a wage befitting a human being or offer them a shred of insurance. These people are forced to seek public assistance to make ends meet. Personally I would rather their employer handled that, instead of the tax payers. But that's a bit over your head. It's just easier for you to burp about welfare queens and never once take a look at the bigger picture.

And I find it hilarious that you have no qualms with corporate welfare simply because it is technically legal. Slavery was legal. Women barred from voting was legal. Legal does not equal morally sound.


So because you think I never left this town I shouldn't be able to have a say in something that is affecting my town and the county? So what does where I was born and raised have anything to do with it? So do you have a big town world view?

This isn't about corporate welfare, slavery or voting. This isn't about the wages Walmart pays. This isn't about people on welfare working. This is about legitimate cases of fraud and abuse and the D.A. is flat out refusing to do the job for which he is paid for and prosecute these crimes. A vast majority of which are felonies.

I do have qualms about corporate welfare. Seems you do to. If it was illegal would you be upset if the D.A. refused to do his job and failed to prosecute? Sure you would.

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#1491349 --- 10/28/16 03:25 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Tiger Shark]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
<!-- -->
Originally Posted By: Tiger Shark
So put on your big girl panties and call up the D.A.'s office and ask them why they are refusing to pursue these cases. Crying a river about it on these forums won't change anything.


I sent a letter and got no reply. Now it's time for the rest of the county taxpayers to know whats going on. It seems by the number of messages I have gotten this seems to have brought the issue out in the open.

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#1491351 --- 10/28/16 03:35 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Timbo]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24



Thank you for pointing out that the 30 who committed fraud are not managers, executives and the working middle class. Thank you for pointing out that other counties are prosecuting welfare fraud.

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#1491352 --- 10/28/16 03:37 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
http://www.syracuse.com/crime/index.ssf/...raud_sweep.html

Over 30 arrested. With a savings to the taxpayers estimated at $500,000.

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#1491353 --- 10/28/16 03:41 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
http://auburnpub.com/news/dozens-charged...ecc7eed079.html

Over 30 arrested. Not a single manager, executive or middle class worker.

The D.A. has done it numerous times before so there is no reason for him to refuse to do it now.

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#1491357 --- 10/28/16 03:49 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
http://fingerlakes1.com/2016/10/28/lyons...tance-benefits/

I know this is Wayne County but like Cayuga County a person lied on the application to get benefits she wasn't eligible to receive. She is being prosecuted for these felonies as she should be.

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#1491358 --- 10/28/16 07:02 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 12893
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Auburnite13021

Thank you for pointing out that the 30 who committed fraud are not managers, executives and the working middle class. Thank you for pointing out that other counties are prosecuting welfare fraud.

Thank You for Pointing Out that you you can't be trusted to tell the truth by accurately represent the facts. Even when they're in plain sight for everyone to see.

Now, allow me to expand upon the parts of the report that you intentionally omitted:


Schemes Lead to Arrests of New York City Social Services Supervisor and 11 others in $1.5 Million Public Benefits Theft.

In December 2015, Cherisse Watson-Jackson, a top supervisor at the New York City Human Resources Administration (HRA), and 12 others were arrested as part of an alleged criminal ring that stole more than $1.5 million in public assistance benefits. The investigation revealed that Watson and her associates defrauded HRA through a series of complex schemes that involved public assistance payments to fraudulent landlords and the purchase of mass quantities of Red Bull energy drink using single-issuance emergency grant funds.

The arrest followed a joint investigation by OWIG, the New York City Department of Investigation, the United States Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York, and the Page | 6

Federal Bureau of Investigation. Watson-Jackson, an Associate Job Opportunity Specialist II, managed the supervisors of HRA employees that review and determine eligibility for public assistance funding. Watson-Jackson allegedly used her position at HRA to improperly approve payments to individuals who were otherwise ineligible for benefits.

The investigation revealed that Watson-Jackson used her supervisory position to deposit fraudulent single-issuance “emergency grants” — that are intended only for persons with a documented urgent need — onto the EBT cards of hundreds of welfare recipients recruited by her accomplices. Watson-Jackson’s accomplices then used several of the EBT cards containing the emergency grants at wholesale club stores to purchase approximately $120,000 worth of Red Bull energy drink that they sold to various bodegas for cash.

The investigation further revealed that Watson-Jackson’s accomplices recruited individuals to fraudulently pose as landlords who owned rental properties that housed public assistance tenants. Watson-Jackson allegedly used her supervisory position at HRA to authorize “rental arrears” payments — known as “One Shot Deals” — to these false landlords to cover back rent owed by phantom tenants. The fraudulent landlords cashed the rental assistance checks and shared in the proceeds with Watson-Jackson and her other accomplices, one of whom worked at a check cashing store in Brooklyn and allegedly facilitated many of the transactions.

The United States Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York charged all of the co-defendants with conspiracy to commit mail fraud and wire fraud. Watson-Jackson, Maurice Cromwell, Derrick Williams, Corey Brock, Gerard Stokes, Yessenia Depena, and Kevin Williams were also charged with aggravated identity theft.


The allegations against each defendant are summarized below:

• Cherisse Watson-Jackson is accused of using her position as an HRA supervisor to fraudulently direct more than $1.5 million in public benefits funding to both the EBT and fraudulent landlords rental arrears payment schemes.

• Maurice Cromwell is accused of receiving and cashing at least 83 rental arrears “One Shot Deal” checks – worth more than $72,500 – at a Brooklyn check cashing store. More than 100 other checks worth an additional $75,000 were sent to his home address but were then cashed by others.

• Isaac Allen is accused of receiving approximately $9,444 in fraudulent single-issuance deposits on his EBT card and with recruiting others to participate in the EBT scheme.

• Derrick Williams is accused of receiving more than $12,500 in fraudulent single- issuance deposits on his EBT card, as well as receiving 82 fraudulent rental arrears checks worth nearly $62,000.

• Corey Brock is accused of receiving more than $8,500 in fraudulent single-issuance deposits on his EBT card.

• Gerard Stokes is accused of receiving nearly $5,000 in fraudulent single-issuance deposits on his EBT card. Stokes is also accused of using his wholesale club shopping account to make purchases using EBT cards that were not issued in his name. In total, he allegedly purchased nearly $120,000 worth of Red Bull energy drink at wholesale clubs.

• Jaron Annunziata is accused of participating in the fraudulent landlord scheme by cashing 16 rental arrears checks worth nearly $11,500 as well as receiving nearly $5,000 in fraudulent single issuances on his EBT card.

• Kevin Williams is accused of participating in the fraudulent landlord scheme by cashing 96 rental arrears checks worth nearly $84,000. Of the checks he cashed, 57 were issued in his name and 39 were issued to others, none of whom were actual landlords.

• Vernecka Petersen is accused of participating in the fraudulent landlord scheme by cashing or depositing 43 rental arrears checks worth more than $31,000. She also allegedly received other checks through the mail that she turned over to another individual.

• Yesenia Depena is accused of participating in the fraudulent landlord scheme by using her position as an employee at a Brooklyn check cashing store to process and cash at least 221 checks worth nearly $187,500.

• Beverly Lord is accused of participating in the fraudulent landlord scheme by cashing 38 rental arrears checks worth more than $27,500.

• Beverly Franklin is accused of participating in the fraudulent landlord scheme by cashing 15 rental arrears checks worth nearly $13,000. She is accused of receiving additional checks through the mail that she turned over to another individual.



The fact that one county MAY over the period of one year have a lower rate of such frauds, in no way negates the fact that nationally, the US fraud rate for ALL public assistance programs COMBINED, accounts for far LESS than 2% of all cases.

If you were at all sincere about taxpayer liability for fraud, you'd be speaking up against the many, well-established sources of REAL fraud, such as off-shore tax havens, capital gains taxes and corporate welfare. Now we're talking about 100s of Xs the cost to taxpayers.

Figures don't lie, but liars can figure... and apparently they can rationalize, as well.
smirk
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1491385 --- 10/29/16 11:36 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
I never said managers and executive's are not committing fraud. I posted articles from Cayuga County that show people getting arrested. And I have never disputed the low overall number of fraud nationwide. Fraud costs us over $70 billion a year and that is more than some overall yearly program budgets. I'm sure that those who can be arrested right now in Cayuga County is a small percentage of those who are on the system doing everything right and happy for the assistance. That small number doesn't exempt it from enforcement.

The issue at hand is there are numerous people right now that can be arrested for welfare fraud. There is tens of thousands of dollars that has been stolen that can be recovered and hundreds of thousands of dollars that can be saved.

The issue at hand is that the D.A. won't do the job he is paid to do and prosecute these people. I'm sorry the D.A.'s office had staff cuts. It's unfortunate. But it everyone is doing more with less.

The issue at hand is the D.A. wants Social Services to pay him, one county government agency to pay another county government agency, to do the job he is already getting paid to do. If he doesn't want to do the job he is paid to do then he could very easily authorize Social Services to go after these people and the same results get done minus them getting arrested.

The county legislators are looking to add a tax and increase fees to raise revenue when their is an alternative right now to save money. A tax on vehicles being registered hits businesses, the middle class and the low income people who struggle to keep their cars up and running so they can get to work.

Thank you for your last post. It shows why these people need to be prosecuted.

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#1491386 --- 10/29/16 01:24 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 12893
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Auburnite13021
I never said managers and executive's are not committing fraud. I posted articles from Cayuga County that show people getting arrested. And I have never disputed the low overall number of fraud nationwide. Fraud costs us over $70 billion a year and that is more than some overall yearly program budgets. I'm sure that those who can be arrested right now in Cayuga County is a small percentage of those who are on the system doing everything right and happy for the assistance. That small number doesn't exempt it from enforcement.

The issue at hand is there are numerous people right now that can be arrested for welfare fraud. There is tens of thousands of dollars that has been stolen that can be recovered and hundreds of thousands of dollars that can be saved.

The issue at hand is that the D.A. won't do the job he is paid to do and prosecute these people. I'm sorry the D.A.'s office had staff cuts. It's unfortunate. But it everyone is doing more with less.

The issue at hand is the D.A. wants Social Services to pay him, one county government agency to pay another county government agency, to do the job he is already getting paid to do. If he doesn't want to do the job he is paid to do then he could very easily authorize Social Services to go after these people and the same results get done minus them getting arrested.

The county legislators are looking to add a tax and increase fees to raise revenue when their is an alternative right now to save money. A tax on vehicles being registered hits businesses, the middle class and the low income people who struggle to keep their cars up and running so they can get to work.

Thank you for your last post. It shows why these people need to be prosecuted.

I'm sorry, but such platitudes don't reflect the reality of running such departments. To suggest that the DA needs to simply suck up the added work-load in light of what would seem to be inadequate funding and resources, is simply unrealistic. Regardless of the job description, if he/she isn't provided with the tools to do the job properly (especially when dealing with criminal prosecutions) then I am in full agreement with the request for added funding.

The courts should never "punt" simply to satisfy angry taxpayers. There is far too much at stake, and frankly, it flies in the face of the intent of the American Justice System.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1495772 --- 02/25/17 08:02 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
http://auburnpub.com/news/local/auburn-w...f3b531799c.html


Good job Mr. D.A. Get the taxpayers their money back and prosecute all the rest of these thieves. There are many more waiting to be arrested and prosecuted.

Don't think one a year is going to be looked at by us voters as you fully doing your job.

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#1495775 --- 02/25/17 08:07 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
If they are too lazy to go to work then give them community service. Maybe it will teach them some work ethic and some self respect.

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#1497766 --- 04/13/17 09:25 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
http://fingerlakes1.com/2017/04/13/budelmann-terminated-prosecutor-betrayed-das-office-cayuga-co/

Mr. D.A. when you get your house back in order start practicing what you preach and stop betraying the taxpayers and start prosecuting welfare fraud. As a voter and taxpayer I say do the job for which you are paid to do.

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