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#1491182 --- 10/26/16 08:59 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Timbo]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2743
Loc: Yates County
I would guess they have oversight of the County DSS agencies. Each DSS agency has their own people who's job is to screen applicants for services to make sure they don't dole out assistance to those who don't deserve it.

Some may do it better than others!!!
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#1491196 --- 10/26/16 04:32 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
dj205 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 993
Loc: in my mind
Isn't it DSS's job to make sure that recipients are legit? Make DSS accountable, don't lay it all on the DA. FYI, I don't know your DA, just a layman's wonder.
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#1491200 --- 10/26/16 06:12 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
retired wrench Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 47
Loc: New York State
Even if prosecution couldn't recover the funds, it would prevent these leeches from getting more and, maybe, discourage others. Not prosecuting invites more of the same.
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#1491202 --- 10/26/16 06:55 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: retired wrench]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13423
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: retired wrench
Even if prosecution couldn't recover the funds, it would prevent these leeches from getting more and, maybe, discourage others. Not prosecuting invites more of the same.

That's interesting, because what I've been reading, is that most data indicates criminal prosecution of "welfare" fraud has virtually NO effect in preventing future fraud. The vast majority of fraud comes from those employed within the ranks of DHHS itself, landlords or from businesses that serve those who collect such benefits.

There's some eye-opening information from the New York
Office of the Welfare Inspector General (2015 Report) which clearly supports this:

https://ig.ny.gov/sites/default/files/pdfs/OWIG-2015-Annual-Report.pdf

Wrench, you especially should educate yourself on who the TRUE criminals usually are in these situations... "Entitlement programs, from food stamps to Medicare, don't see unusually high cheating rates -- and the culprits are usually managers and executives, not 'welfare queens.'"

Read Up:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...t-fraud/278690/
http://www.inquisitr.com/1844601/ny-welfare-fraud-30-arrested-for-food-stamp-fraud-more-to-come/
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/econ...d-of-efficienty
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1491225 --- 10/27/16 09:50 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: retired wrench]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
<!-- -->
Originally Posted By: retired wrench
Even if prosecution couldn't recover the funds, it would prevent these leeches from getting more and, maybe, discourage others. Not prosecuting invites more of the same.


Prosecution would recover the stolen money and these leeches can be closed down for a period of time because they stole. Thus saving taxpayers more money.

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#1491227 --- 10/27/16 09:57 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: dj205]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
<!-- -->
Originally Posted By: dj205
Isn't it DSS's job to make sure that recipients are legit? Make DSS accountable, don't lay it all on the DA.I don't know your DA, just a layman's wonder.


Yes, the caseworkers determine eligibility. When one lies and gets benefits they aren't eligible for it becomes a fraud issue. DSS Investigators do their job and send the cases to the D.A.'s office for prosecution. Again, the problem is the D.A. has simply refused to prosecute these cases. Everyone else did their jobs so now it's time for the D.A. to do his job.

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#1491229 --- 10/27/16 10:06 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
If the D.A. doesn't want to do his job for which he is already getting paid to do and prosecute these thieves then he can simply authorize DSS to go after these thieves. DSS can recoup the money and shut these people down in lieu of prosecution. But the D.A. has even flat out refused to even authorize DSS to do this.

Why you ask? Because the D.A. thinks another county agency should pay him to prosecute these crimes and pay him to authorize DSS to go after these people. It's absurd!

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#1491250 --- 10/27/16 02:49 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13423
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Auburnite13021
If the D.A. doesn't want to do his job for which he is already getting paid to do and prosecute these thieves then he can simply authorize DSS to go after these thieves. DSS can recoup the money and shut these people down in lieu of prosecution. But the D.A. has even flat out refused to even authorize DSS to do this.

Why you ask? Because the D.A. thinks another county agency should pay him to prosecute these crimes and pay him to authorize DSS to go after these people. It's absurd!

Since you seem to know the mind of the DA, what facts do you possess regarding the identities and nature of the alleged frauds, since you surely must know these facts, as well?

- Understandably curious.
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#1491258 --- 10/27/16 03:38 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
The Mechanic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/24/11
Posts: 1113
Loc: NY
They should arrest all these leeches who are stealing. More people too lazy to get a job.
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#1491270 --- 10/27/16 04:34 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: The Mechanic]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13423
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: The Mechanic
They should arrest all these leeches who are stealing. More people too lazy to get a job.

They DO have jobs. They're employees of DHHS, sleazy local business owners and criminal landlords who scam the system while renting to benefit recipients. whistle

And FYI... something like 80% of those collecting public assistance are employed adults over the age of 40. And most of those are employed full time.

And THAT group is FAR-and-away the least likely to commit welfare fraud. It's the wealthy and middle-class working who account for most of the fraud.
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#1491302 --- 10/28/16 03:00 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Tiger Shark Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/16
Posts: 589
He's not going to understand any of that, Timbo. His brain literally will not allow him to. He is hard-wired into his small-town world view where everything is black and white. It is just so much easier for him to burp about welfare queens being too lazy to get a job. It's a convenient myth. The truth is too confusing.
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#1491314 --- 10/28/16 10:37 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Timbo]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
Originally Posted By: Timbo


And THAT group is FAR-and-away the least likely to commit welfare fraud. It's the wealthy and middle-class working who account for most of the fraud.[/size]


So how does the wealthy and working middle class get welfare when they don't qualify and therefore not eligible?

I am talking about food stamps and public assistance. Not what you perceive to be corporate welfare given out by career politicians for generous contributions and their pay to play mentality. Although that is detrimental to society it's not illegal like what people are doing where they lie to steal welfare from the county.

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#1491315 --- 10/28/16 10:43 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Tiger Shark]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
<!-- -->
Originally Posted By: Tiger Shark
He's not going to understand any of that, Timbo. His brain literally will not allow him to. He is hard-wired into his small-town world view where everything is black and white. It is just so much easier for him to burp about welfare queens being too lazy to get a job. It's a convenient myth. The truth is too confusing.


Yes, I don't understand why the D.A. won't do his job and prosecute these thieves. I don't understand why, if the D.A. won't prosecute these thieves, why he doesn't authorize Social Services to go after them. They can get taxpayer money back and shut these thieves down.

Born and raised small town. That gives me a pretty good insight into what is happening in my community.

I doubt you are some worldly traveler. You sound more like one of these system suckers who doesn't want his handouts to disappear.


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#1491319 --- 10/28/16 11:00 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Tiger Shark Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/16
Posts: 589
Yeah, I know you were born and raised in a small town. You don't have to tell me. I also wonder if at any time in your life you've left that town.

And because I disagree with you that makes me a "system sucker"? I own my own business and make far more than you ever will, no public assistance needed. Thing is, the vast majority of welfare recipients ARE working, many full-time, for companies like Wal-Mart, which refuse to pay them a wage befitting a human being or offer them a shred of insurance. These people are forced to seek public assistance to make ends meet. Personally I would rather their employer handled that, instead of the tax payers. But that's a bit over your head. It's just easier for you to burp about welfare queens and never once take a look at the bigger picture.

And I find it hilarious that you have no qualms with corporate welfare simply because it is technically legal. Slavery was legal. Women barred from voting was legal. Legal does not equal morally sound.
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#1491320 --- 10/28/16 11:03 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Tiger Shark Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/16
Posts: 589
So put on your big girl panties and call up the D.A.'s office and ask them why they are refusing to pursue these cases. Crying a river about it on these forums won't change anything.
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Hillbilly tears taste like champagne

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#1491326 --- 10/28/16 11:52 AM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13423
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Auburnite13021
Originally Posted By: Timbo

And THAT group is FAR-and-away the least likely to commit welfare fraud. It's the wealthy and middle-class working who account for most of the fraud.[/size]

So how does the wealthy and working middle class get welfare when they don't qualify and therefore not eligible?

I am talking about food stamps and public assistance. Not what you perceive to be corporate welfare given out by career politicians for generous contributions and their pay to play mentality. Although that is detrimental to society it's not illegal like what people are doing where they lie to steal welfare from the county.

If you'd have taken the time to actually read the linked information in the state's own report that I provided above, you wouldn't be asking such embarrassingly silly questions.

Now go back and and review them carefully and thoroughly. We'll wait for you to catch up with the rest of the class.



Here's my previous post in it's entirety:

Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: retired wrench
Even if prosecution couldn't recover the funds, it would prevent these leeches from getting more and, maybe, discourage others. Not prosecuting invites more of the same.

That's interesting, because what I've been reading, is that most data indicates criminal prosecution of "welfare" fraud has virtually NO effect in preventing future fraud. The vast majority of fraud comes from those employed within the ranks of DHHS itself, landlords or from businesses that serve those who collect such benefits.

There's some eye-opening information from the New York
Office of the Welfare Inspector General (2015 Report) which clearly supports this:

https://ig.ny.gov/sites/default/files/pdfs/OWIG-2015-Annual-Report.pdf

Wrench, you especially should educate yourself on who the TRUE criminals usually are in these situations... "Entitlement programs, from food stamps to Medicare, don't see unusually high cheating rates -- and the culprits are usually managers and executives, not 'welfare queens.'"

Read Up:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...t-fraud/278690/
http://www.inquisitr.com/1844601/ny-welfare-fraud-30-arrested-for-food-stamp-fraud-more-to-come/
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/econ...d-of-efficienty
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1491348 --- 10/28/16 03:23 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Tiger Shark]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
<!-- -->
Originally Posted By: Tiger Shark
Yeah, I know you were born and raised in a small town. You don't have to tell me. I also wonder if at any time in your life you've left that town.

And because I disagree with you that makes me a "system sucker"? I own my own business and make far more than you ever will, no public assistance needed. Thing is, the vast majority of welfare recipients ARE working, many full-time, for companies like Wal-Mart, which refuse to pay them a wage befitting a human being or offer them a shred of insurance. These people are forced to seek public assistance to make ends meet. Personally I would rather their employer handled that, instead of the tax payers. But that's a bit over your head. It's just easier for you to burp about welfare queens and never once take a look at the bigger picture.

And I find it hilarious that you have no qualms with corporate welfare simply because it is technically legal. Slavery was legal. Women barred from voting was legal. Legal does not equal morally sound.


So because you think I never left this town I shouldn't be able to have a say in something that is affecting my town and the county? So what does where I was born and raised have anything to do with it? So do you have a big town world view?

This isn't about corporate welfare, slavery or voting. This isn't about the wages Walmart pays. This isn't about people on welfare working. This is about legitimate cases of fraud and abuse and the D.A. is flat out refusing to do the job for which he is paid for and prosecute these crimes. A vast majority of which are felonies.

I do have qualms about corporate welfare. Seems you do to. If it was illegal would you be upset if the D.A. refused to do his job and failed to prosecute? Sure you would.

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#1491349 --- 10/28/16 03:25 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Tiger Shark]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
<!-- -->
Originally Posted By: Tiger Shark
So put on your big girl panties and call up the D.A.'s office and ask them why they are refusing to pursue these cases. Crying a river about it on these forums won't change anything.


I sent a letter and got no reply. Now it's time for the rest of the county taxpayers to know whats going on. It seems by the number of messages I have gotten this seems to have brought the issue out in the open.

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#1491351 --- 10/28/16 03:35 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Timbo]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24



Thank you for pointing out that the 30 who committed fraud are not managers, executives and the working middle class. Thank you for pointing out that other counties are prosecuting welfare fraud.

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#1491352 --- 10/28/16 03:37 PM Re: D.A. won't prosecute welfare fraud [Re: Auburnite13021]
Auburnite13021 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/16
Posts: 24
http://www.syracuse.com/crime/index.ssf/...raud_sweep.html

Over 30 arrested. With a savings to the taxpayers estimated at $500,000.

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