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#1486507 --- 07/06/16 08:57 PM $10 Million for Geneva!
Downeaster63 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/13
Posts: 28
Loc: Geneva,NY
I just saw on my Facebook feed that the governor presented the city with a big fat check for $10 million. Let's hope it is used wisely!

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#1486565 --- 07/07/16 01:55 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Downeaster63]
FL1 Staff Offline


Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/00
Posts: 784
Loc: Seneca Falls, NY

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#1486586 --- 07/07/16 08:27 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Downeaster63]
Hot Burrito Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/00
Posts: 740
Loc: Tiajuna Flats
Originally Posted By: Downeaster63
I just saw on my Facebook feed that the governor presented the city with a big fat check for $10 million. Let's hope it is used wisely!


When has government money ever been used wisely?

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#1486738 --- 07/10/16 03:04 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Hot Burrito]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1351
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Yeah, first they try to drive the low income people from downtown, now it sounds like they want to build them new apartments to bring them back and then build them a grocery store and a beach at the lake. I don't know of many people who would swim in the lake, most would rather swim in a pool. crazy
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#1486801 --- 07/11/16 09:28 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: scwoodchuck]
justacitizen Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 51
I sure hope city residents are the ones making the decisions.

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#1486802 --- 07/11/16 09:49 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: justacitizen]
Downeaster63 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/13
Posts: 28
Loc: Geneva,NY
It looks as though it will be up to Matt Horn, city council & Sage Gerling from the ONI.

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#1486812 --- 07/12/16 06:04 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Downeaster63]
4sizzle Offline
Member

Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 269
Loc: here and there
Yeah that is scary!!


Edited by 4sizzle (07/12/16 06:05 AM)

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#1486817 --- 07/12/16 09:31 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: 4sizzle]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
In my mind it would be more scary if decisions allocating those funds were placed in the hands of those who had no part in obtaining them in the first place, and offered no suggestions for improving the city during development of the most recent comprehensive plan. Horn and Gerling did the work to obtain the grant, and their full time job presumably is focused on the most effective use of resources available to improve the city. I'd rather trust them with the decisions than entrust them to those who chose not to help earlier. If anyone needs further explanation, see the Wikipedia plot summary of The Little Red Hen.

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#1486834 --- 07/12/16 12:33 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
justacitizen Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 51
I think that Gerling and Horn did a great job getting the City that funds but they should not be the only ones involved in where the money goes. There are many good people in the City of Geneva that have great ideas that should be tapped.

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#1486845 --- 07/12/16 04:24 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: scwoodchuck]
pingu Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 610
Loc: Right here.
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Yeah, first they try to drive the low income people from downtown, now it sounds like they want to build them new apartments to bring them back and then build them a grocery store and a beach at the lake. I don't know of many people who would swim in the lake, most would rather swim in a pool. crazy


Wow. Mark Twain had a saying that would apply to your comment. So "they" are driving low income people out then want them back and to do so "they" will build new apartments for "them" and "they" will toss in a grocery store for good measure.

The pool comment is just icing on the cake.

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#1486847 --- 07/12/16 04:25 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: justacitizen]
pingu Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 610
Loc: Right here.
Originally Posted By: justacitizen
I think that Gerling and Horn did a great job getting the City that funds but they should not be the only ones involved in where the money goes. There are many good people in the City of Geneva that have great ideas that should be tapped.


Agreed. Hope that they find those good people.

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#1486867 --- 07/13/16 08:06 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: pingu]
4sizzle Offline
Member

Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 269
Loc: here and there
I agree. There should be more interaction with the taxpayers as to what this money is spent on.

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#1486981 --- 07/16/16 07:38 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: 4sizzle]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1551
Loc: New York, Seneca
Maybe they will tear out all the stuff they have put in at the lakefront over the past 10 years and do it right this time. Then in ten years they can tear everything out again and do it over again. That's what they have been doing for the last 60 years as I recall.
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#1486987 --- 07/16/16 10:19 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Hello_Governer]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13185
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
Maybe they will tear out all the stuff they have put in at the lakefront over the past 10 years and do it right this time. Then in ten years they can tear everything out again and do it over again. That's what they have been doing for the last 60 years as I recall.

Anxiously awaiting your sage wisdom in the form of "workable alternatives ". whistle
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#1486991 --- 07/16/16 02:23 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Timbo]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1551
Loc: New York, Seneca
The politicians won't be happy till the entire lakefront is wall to wall houses for the elite.
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Do we really have to make everything IDIOT PROOF ?

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#1486992 --- 07/16/16 02:40 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Downeaster63]
roundtable Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 112
Loc: new york state
Not the entire lake front with housing but how about something that will offer the burdened residents of Geneva a little help with this eroded tax base? Is that too much to hope for?

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#1486993 --- 07/16/16 03:21 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: roundtable]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13185
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: roundtable
Not the entire lake front with housing but how about something that will offer the burdened residents of Geneva a little help with this eroded tax base? Is that too much to hope for?

It is if it deprives those same taxpayers their enjoyment of what is probably Geneva's greatest natural resource.
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#1487007 --- 07/17/16 10:47 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Timbo]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1551
Loc: New York, Seneca
It can happen here, in fact it has already happened grin

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#1487010 --- 07/17/16 02:18 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Hello_Governer]
roundtable Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 112
Loc: new york state
Where has it happened here?

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#1487012 --- 07/17/16 03:19 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Downeaster63]
pingu Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 610
Loc: Right here.
Just a response to this in general.

Here we go with the paranoid, "they will take all our lakefront away for the elite." Geneva has nearly 50 acres of lakefront. Of course some people want nothing to happen at all on the lakefront and maybe even wouldn't mind tearing down the entire downtown district because that's lakefront, too isn't it?

Okay, enough with the greedy dog mentality. We have a city with 60% off the tax roles, there is property where no one would loose their precious use or view of the lakefront AND still get some solid taxable property back. Sound interested or are you one of the "I don't care what you say" crowd that cannot be reasoned with no matter how well thought out the idea is. No solutions from those folks, just object to everything that is not their idea.

Does everyone know that there is a permanent easement along the entire lake shore that prohibits any development? So all these panicked links to folks losing access is complete BS in Geneva because they already thought of it and made sure it wouldn't happen.

I for one would love to see some really nice and amazing pedestrian bridge built over the highway to link downtown and the lake.

Timbo and others at least brings some thoughtful insight to the subject. If you object, than bring some thoughtful alternatives and be sure that any development doesn't ruin it since you can't make more lake front property.

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#1487020 --- 07/17/16 07:02 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: pingu]
Bowler1 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 237
If memory serves,wasn't there a pedestrian bridge over 5&20 in the early 70's or so,and was it removed when improvements were made to the road or was it just because it had seen it's better days?

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#1487033 --- 07/17/16 11:05 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: pingu]
roundtable Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 112
Loc: new york state
Very well put Pingu.......

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#1487047 --- 07/18/16 09:59 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: roundtable]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13185
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: roundtable
Where has it happened here?

You don't close the doors, after the horses have left the barn.
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#1487048 --- 07/18/16 10:08 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: pingu]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13185
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: pingu
Just a response to this in general.

Here we go with the paranoid, "they will take all our lakefront away for the elite." Geneva has nearly 50 acres of lakefront. Of course some people want nothing to happen at all on the lakefront and maybe even wouldn't mind tearing down the entire downtown district because that's lakefront, too isn't it?

Okay, enough with the greedy dog mentality. We have a city with 60% off the tax roles, there is property where no one would loose their precious use or view of the lakefront AND still get some solid taxable property back. Sound interested or are you one of the "I don't care what you say" crowd that cannot be reasoned with no matter how well thought out the idea is. No solutions from those folks, just object to everything that is not their idea.

Does everyone know that there is a permanent easement along the entire lake shore that prohibits any development? So all these panicked links to folks losing access is complete BS in Geneva because they already thought of it and made sure it wouldn't happen.

I for one would love to see some really nice and amazing pedestrian bridge built over the highway to link downtown and the lake.

Timbo and others at least brings some thoughtful insight to the subject. If you object, than bring some thoughtful alternatives and be sure that any development doesn't ruin it since you can't make more lake front property.

As a point of fact... NY has archaic, yet still in-place maritime trade laws on the books. ALL bodies of water navigable by boat (no matter how small), have public right to "reasonable portage" (temporary easement) along any obstructed shoreline wether on public OR private land. Some restrictions around sensitive locations apply.

Even with such fully active laws, private communities have been built that can and do trespass upon public easements.
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#1487288 --- 07/22/16 05:10 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Downeaster63]
Mr. 2U Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 174
Loc: Were ever there is danger
Some of that money should go to the Geneva Police Department, maybe then the PD could hire more officers to patrol the neighborhoods and help rid the Geneva streets of drugs and guns.
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#1487320 --- 07/23/16 06:13 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Bowler1]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1551
Loc: New York, Seneca
Originally Posted By: Bowler1
If memory serves, wasn't there a pedestrian bridge over 5&20 in the early 70's or so, and was it removed when improvements were made to the road or was it just because it had seen it's better days?
Yes, there was a bridge, it didn't get used that much. Then it became a problem because, at night, people were dropping things on passing cars. crazy The answer is another TUNNEL grin
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#1487407 --- 07/25/16 10:37 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Hello_Governer]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
Yes, there was a bridge, it didn't get used that much. Then it became a problem because, at night, people were dropping things on passing cars. crazy The answer is another TUNNEL grin


why build a bridge?

just do as HWS has done along south main and pulteney street

get out some white paint and paint some crosswalks along 5 & 20

if the HWS students can stop high volumes of traffic along south main street just to get their cars parked on the east side of the street then taxpayers should be able to stop high volumes of traffic on 5 & 20 to get to the lakefront grin

ain't it a state law that anyone in a crosswalk can stop traffic no matter how high the volume of traffic?
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#1487409 --- 07/25/16 11:23 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: pingu]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pingu
Just a response to this in general.

Here we go with the paranoid, "they will take all our lakefront away for the elite." Geneva has nearly 50 acres of lakefront. Of course some people want nothing to happen at all on the lakefront and maybe even wouldn't mind tearing down the entire downtown district because that's lakefront, too isn't it?

Okay, enough with the greedy dog mentality. We have a city with 60% off the tax roles, there is property where no one would loose their precious use or view of the lakefront AND still get some solid taxable property back. Sound interested or are you one of the "I don't care what you say" crowd that cannot be reasoned with no matter how well thought out the idea is. No solutions from those folks, just object to everything that is not their idea.

Does everyone know that there is a permanent easement along the entire lake shore that prohibits any development? So all these panicked links to folks losing access is complete BS in Geneva because they already thought of it and made sure it wouldn't happen.


the ramada will be making a $2.1 million tax payment
it is on about 5 acres of lakefront land

of the 50 acres of lakefront use the 30 acres closest to the state park for development

30 acres divided by 5 acres equals 6

if the ramada with 5 acres makes a $2.1 million payment on 5 acres then the city should be able to get about $12.6 million in taxes from the 30 acres developed each year

keep a 30 foot right of way for the walking trail along the lake

does it make sense to have a frisbee golf course on those 30 acres of lakefront and lose well over $12 million in taxes each year?

taxpayers will see a lower tax bill and the city could provide the taxpayers with a free state park pass each year (currently $65 per season)

with homeowners seeing a lower tax bill then that will encourage middle income familes to buy homes in the city rather than buying homes in the town

have the state park use a larger portion of the money from the increased park passes to improve the local state park - roads need repair, areas need to be mowed, repairs to the buildings...

the city would see more yearly sales tax revenue from the county with a higher taxable property with the development of the 30 acres of lakefront
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1487449 --- 07/26/16 03:48 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: bluezone]
roundtable Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 112
Loc: new york state
Many times I dont really agree with you Bluezone but I am totally on board with your post about the use of the property at the lake that would help we over burdened taxpayers!!!!

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#1487463 --- 07/26/16 09:03 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: roundtable]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
another question that needs to be looked at is - did the city get the $10 million because of the high poverty rate (25%)?

if the poverty rate played a major role in gaining the $10 million then the city manager should contact the county and see if the county should divert more money to the city of geneva as they are taking in a large amount of the poverty when compared to the rest of the county

if the poverty was spread through out the county equally and not all funneled to the city of geneva then other localities would have a financial burden

currently the city of geneva is being forced to shoulder the high poverty rate while the remaining parts of the county do not have the same situation

the geneva city manager should explain to the county that the county can either offer yearly financial assistance to the city of geneva to help address the high poverty rate or the county can turn its back on the city of geneva.

down the road when the city of geneva is financially ruined by the high poverty rate then the county will be dragged down with the city

the county can either offer modest assistance now or wait until the problem is beyond hope

helping out the city of geneva will only help to make the entire county much stronger


there should be some monetary number as to how much each percent of poverty rate places a financial burden on the city


if for example 1% of poverty leads to an additional $100,000 of city funds spent than the city of geneva has to cover an additional $2,500,000 for a poverty level of 25% each year

the city of geneva should ask the county to cover a larger portion of that $2,500,000 money spent for poverty related conditions in order to help out the entire county
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1487464 --- 07/26/16 09:16 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: roundtable]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: roundtable
I am totally on board with your post about the use of the property at the lake that would help we over burdened taxpayers!!!!


if development were to occur closer to the state park then a stop light would be installed for access to a road to the new development

the stop light would be closer to the state park entrance

from that stop light traveling towards the city the speed could be reduced to 30 mph allowing people to cross at crosswalks to encourage use the lakefront

the city and ramada could partner to open a small beach to attract more people to the lakefront

the beach is currently there it just needs a lifeguard

fence it in and those that are not city homeowners would be charged a small fee to cover the cost of the lifeguards
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1487482 --- 07/27/16 08:04 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: bluezone]
roundtable Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 112
Loc: new york state
Exactly right Bluezone. What is this city's problem with that lake front???? No vision?

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#1487507 --- 07/28/16 07:36 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: roundtable]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
not sure why there is talk about a pedestrian bridge

there are crosswalks/stoplights at lake street/5&20 and also at castle street/5&20

there are crosswalks at elizabethblackwell street but there are no stoplights at that location

if people are concerned about the crosswalks at elizabeth blackwell street then the city could install a 'pedestrian crossing' light

when people want to cross at that location there could be a push button mounted on a pole on both sides

when the button is pushed then a stoplight style light facing 5&20 both ways would change from green to yellow then to red

the duration from green to yellow to red would be timed like all other stop lights to allow traffic to stop safely

when the light is red is when people would cross as the traffic would be stopped for a brief moment to let people cross

far less to pay for a 'pedestrian light' than a pedestrian bridge

if a pedestrian light is needed between the area of lake street and the state park entrance then it could be installed there as well
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1487714 --- 08/02/16 03:52 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Downeaster63]
Mr. 2U Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 174
Loc: Were ever there is danger
Any chance of seeing a Boat Museum with this money, that would be a great investment? People from all walks of life will flock to the City to see the history of boats and nautical themed items!!!
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THEY ONCE TRIED TO MAKE A CHUCK NORRIS TOLIET PAPER.....BUT IT WOULDN'T TAKE CRAP FROM ANYONE.

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#1487722 --- 08/02/16 09:54 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Mr. 2U]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Mr. 2U
Any chance of seeing a Boat Museum with this money, that would be a great investment? People from all walks of life will flock to the City to see the history of boats and nautical themed items!!!
Didn't that ship sail a few years ago all the way to Hammondsport?

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#1487751 --- 08/03/16 03:41 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Downeaster63]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 151
Yes, it's hard to believe we need two boat museums, and I'd like to know if the one in Hammondsport is self supporting. OR are they yet another entity (Dove Block?) that claims they need to be supported by tax dollars because of the multiplier effect they have on tourism?

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#1487788 --- 08/04/16 01:00 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Downeaster63]
breakingbad Offline
Member

Registered: 09/23/14
Posts: 35
You people are clueless. That money is going straight to Linden Street and everyone who has their hands in that street's pockets. This grant and the comprehensive plan will have no benefit to anyone actually paying taxes and off Linden St.

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#1487809 --- 08/04/16 08:01 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: breakingbad]
justacitizen Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 51
You are so right. Let's keep giving more to Geneva's socially elite while doing nothing that will lower taxes.

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#1487845 --- 08/05/16 06:56 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: breakingbad]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1351
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: breakingbad
You people are clueless. That money is going straight to Linden Street and everyone who has their hands in that street's pockets. This grant and the comprehensive plan will have no benefit to anyone actually paying taxes and off Linden St.
Do you mean the lady lawyer ?
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#1488031 --- 08/10/16 12:15 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
Originally Posted By: Mr. 2U
Any chance of seeing a Boat Museum with this money, that would be a great investment? People from all walks of life will flock to the City to see the history of boats and nautical themed items!!!
Didn't that ship sail a few years ago all the way to Hammondsport?


is it true that the ones running the museum back then did not get enough funding to even open the museum but yet they wanted the city taxpayers to pay for all the operations?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1488054 --- 08/10/16 09:35 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Mr. 2U]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13185
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Mr. 2U
Some of that money should go to the Geneva Police Department, maybe then the PD could hire more officers to patrol the neighborhoods and help rid the Geneva streets of drugs and guns.

OR... we can do as so many other's have successfully done though legalization/regulation of recreational drugs and by instituting STRONG gun control measures such as expanding background-checks.

https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years...ning#.PJdaP6jaX
http://smartgunlaws.org/effectiveness-brady-actbackground-checks/

But I digress...
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1488690 --- 08/23/16 06:38 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: justacitizen]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
believe there is about 30 acres of vacant land in the industrial park not being used

install solar panels on the 30 acres

should see about $200,000 each year back to the city

if a business wants to locate on a portion of the land then the solar panels in that area can be removed
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1488720 --- 08/23/16 09:43 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13185
Loc: CNY

First of all, at current rates, 30 acres of solar collectors would generate FAR more than $200,000 annually.

Secondly, I doubt you'd find a tax-based business model that could compete with whatever profits were realized through such a comprehensive solar farm.

It takes 2.8 acres of land to generate 1GWh of solar energy per year. 30 acres would power almost 1000 homes for one year.

Just sayin'.
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1488727 --- 08/23/16 10:33 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Timbo]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1551
Loc: New York, Seneca
Gun laws like Chicago grin

www.breitbart.com/.../dozens-shot-four-killed-weekend-gun-controlled-chicago/‎Cached1 day ago ... Dozens were shot--four fatally--over the weekend in heavily gun controlled
Chicago. ... She was shot while attending “a vigil for another shooting victim. ...
Saturday into Sunday” — someone was shot in Chicago “every 33 minutes. ... According to the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, CT has universal ...
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#1488729 --- 08/23/16 10:44 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Hello_Governer]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13185
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
Gun laws like Chicago grin

www.breitbart.com/.../dozens-shot-four-killed-weekend-gun-controlled-chicago/‎Cached1 day ago ... Dozens were shot--four fatally--over the weekend in heavily gun controlled
Chicago. ... She was shot while attending “a vigil for another shooting victim. ...
Saturday into Sunday” — someone was shot in Chicago “every 33 minutes. ... According to the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, CT has universal ...

Different argument, different thread.
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#1488754 --- 08/24/16 05:41 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
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Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
I doubt you'd find a tax-based business model that could compete with whatever profits were realized through such a comprehensive solar farm.


they city owns the land
the city would have the solar panels to generate yearly income / reduce their electric costs

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#1488759 --- 08/24/16 07:53 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
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Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Timbo
I doubt you'd find a tax-based business model that could compete with whatever profits were realized through such a comprehensive solar farm.


they city owns the land
the city would have the solar panels to generate yearly income / reduce their electric costs

That's precisely my point. So why do you suggest removing the panels for other less profitable, taxed-based forms of revenue??? confused
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#1488764 --- 08/24/16 10:01 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Downeaster63]
Tacitus Offline
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Registered: 03/23/15
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These aren't mutually exclusive outcomes - a business could put the panels on their roof. The bigger problem is having the infrastructure to send that much juice back up the line.

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#1488814 --- 08/25/16 07:13 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
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Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
The bigger problem is having the infrastructure to send that much juice back up the line.


with it being located in the industrial park the capacity should be there

guardian glass consumes large amounts of electric to melt the glass
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#1488881 --- 08/26/16 03:27 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Downeaster63]
Tacitus Offline
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Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 151
Guardian uses natural gas, subsidized by us, to melt the glass.

The capacity might be there, but the conductors get smaller as you approach the load, which is the opposite of the arrangement you want if you want to be a source of power. Zoos had this problem when they installed their windmills.

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#1488885 --- 08/26/16 06:32 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
The capacity might be there, but the conductors get smaller as you approach the load, which is the opposite of the arrangement you want if you want to be a source of power. Zoos had this problem when they installed their windmills.


how many solar panels would the current system allow without any upgrades?
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#1488928 --- 08/26/16 02:11 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Downeaster63]
Tacitus Offline
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Registered: 03/23/15
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I don't know. If you recall NYSEG wasn't very cooperative on the Zotos project.

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#1488973 --- 08/28/16 05:40 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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believe a local solar company purchased about 60 acres off county road 6 and put 30 acres of solar panels in

if there is capacity on that road then there should be enough capacity at the industrial park

even if it costs money to ugrade the system the pay back will be for the many years

run a direct line (metered) to the businesses in the industrial park and any surplus could go to the grid

power could go to the city treatment plant nearby and the surplus back to the grid
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#1488975 --- 08/28/16 05:47 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus

The capacity might be there, but the conductors get smaller as you approach the load, which is the opposite of the arrangement you want if you want to be a source of power. Zotos had this problem when they installed their windmills.


if the capacity is there then run a line over to where zotos connected to grid
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#1489006 --- 08/29/16 07:47 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
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Registered: 10/22/12
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Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
The capacity might be there, but the conductors get smaller as you approach the load, which is the opposite of the arrangement you want if you want to be a source of power. Zoos had this problem when they installed their windmills.


how many solar panels would the current system allow without any upgrades?


Solar panels supply current but to run a plant on large capacity holding batteries isn't feasible not to mention being in a region where sunlight isn't optimal. Windmills work in conjunction (with NYSEG's grid) part of the plant on purchased electricity while another parts of plant are on the windmills. It can be further noted that irrespective of usage of solar or windmills,many plants will take advantage of using NYSEG's grid because they pay a certain monthly rate if they use it or not.
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#1489017 --- 08/30/16 01:45 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
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Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
Solar panels supply current but to run a plant on large capacity holding batteries isn't feasible


batteries never mentioned
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#1489031 --- 08/30/16 09:16 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
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Registered: 10/22/12
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Do some research on solar system but in your infinite wisdom, you can explain how electric is stored when the sun isn't out.
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#1489091 --- 08/31/16 08:03 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Formermac
Do some research on solar system
can you say g-r-i-d?

Originally Posted By: Formermac
you can explain how electric is stored when the sun isn't out.


when the sun is out the solar panels produce dc that is converted to ac that can either be used on site or sent back to the grid

when the sun ain't out the solar panels do not produce dc so there is no reason for 'storage'... whistle
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#1489092 --- 08/31/16 08:06 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
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Registered: 10/22/12
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ROTFLMBO, know why I'm laughing? I worked on that project....care to proceed?
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#1489093 --- 08/31/16 08:07 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Formermac]
Formermac Offline
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Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 8060
Find out what a converter is and what it does. STILL LAUGHING
While you're at it look up a disconnect switch and how you switch from GRID to plant generators or solar system.


Edited by Formermac (08/31/16 08:12 PM)
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#1489095 --- 08/31/16 08:14 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus

The capacity might be there, but the conductors get smaller as you approach the load, which is the opposite of the arrangement you want if you want to be a source of power.



residual supply is 'stepped' down to 120 volts

in the industrial park the supply is most likely 480 volts or 3 phase as commercial users requires larger supply/volts/demand/amps

also believe that cuomo has set up grants to establish 'micro electric suppliers'
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#1489096 --- 08/31/16 08:21 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
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Registered: 10/22/12
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WRONG....look up LOAD capacity and how a plant is sized based on electrical usage not only by a standard voltage or amperage rating. There's a sub station sitting on the plant site...care to explain why it was placed there? 3 phase 480 is bare minimal for that plant.
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#1489101 --- 08/31/16 09:08 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Formermac
There's a sub station sitting on the plant site...care to explain why it was placed there?


for a future 30 acre solar panel system to connect to the grid

LOL
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#1489102 --- 08/31/16 09:16 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
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Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 8060
I am having a great deal of pain in my leg, so the laughing isn't good for me. You obviously know nothing about infrastructure, the sub station is approximately 80 feet by 80 feet. Now for more information, a solar system is very expensive to install and just as expensive to maintain, adverse to steel and wiring. It's very obvious that you're the type of individual who Google and becomes more ignorant due to a lack of understanding as to what they read.
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#1489105 --- 08/31/16 09:59 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
laughing

the sub station is approximately 80 feet by 80 feet.


storage for your batteries? LOL

Originally Posted By: Formermac
a solar system is very expensive to install


state and federal rebates

ontario county installed a solar system

Originally Posted By: Formermac
just as expensive to maintain


how so?
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#1489107 --- 08/31/16 10:28 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Formermac]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13185
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Formermac
the type of individual who Google and becomes more ignorant due to a lack of understanding as to what they read.

Cluelesszone simply doesn't get it. crazy
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#1489111 --- 09/01/16 06:44 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Timbo]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
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You should talk, you only read parts of something and then get ripped to shreds with your own posts.
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#1489113 --- 09/01/16 07:28 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: scwoodchuck]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
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Loc: CNY

If that were true, I'm sure that you'd have no problem providing actual examples. whistle

Judgement stands.
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#1489120 --- 09/01/16 09:57 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: scwoodchuck]
Formermac Offline
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Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 8060
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
You should talk, you only read parts of something and then get ripped to shreds with your own posts.


In all fairness, you're detouring from the original topic but personal sidetracking has achieved just that, off topic. I'm a retired master electrician who allowed himself to get into a fray with someone (Bluezone) I construe as not even a novice when speaking in regard electrical infrastructure, so that action makes for 2 idiots instead of one, now if you care to be inclusive to the idiot club, please proceed Sir. For the most part, Timbo is very knowledgeable and can hold his own due to being well read on many subjects. Maybe something we all can mimic that, including myself and have more educated and intelligent debates instead of pissing contests, which is the standard here for the last few years.
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#1489126 --- 09/01/16 01:48 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Formermac]
secure white guy Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/13
Posts: 455
Loc: blue yoga mat
Originally Posted By: Formermac
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
You should talk, you only read parts of something and then get ripped to shreds with your own posts.


In all fairness, you're detouring from the original topic but personal sidetracking has achieved just that, off topic. I'm a retired master electrician who allowed himself to get into a fray with someone (Bluezone) I construe as not even a novice when speaking in regard electrical infrastructure, so that action makes for 2 idiots instead of one, now if you care to be inclusive to the idiot club, please proceed Sir. For the most part, Timbo is very knowledgeable and can hold his own due to being well read on many subjects. Maybe something we all can mimic that, including myself and have more educated and intelligent debates instead of pissing contests, which is the standard here for the last few years.


Well said and duly noted Formermac.

Worth noting also. Mockery can be a valid and useful form of criticism, particularly when dealing with the intellectual dishonesty habitually offered by certain former contributors
.

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#1489133 --- 09/01/16 05:05 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Formermac]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1351
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: Formermac
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
You should talk, you only read parts of something and then get ripped to shreds with your own posts.


In all fairness, you're detouring from the original topic but personal sidetracking has achieved just that, off topic. I'm a retired master electrician who allowed himself to get into a fray with someone (Bluezone) I construe as not even a novice when speaking in regard electrical infrastructure, so that action makes for 2 idiots instead of one, now if you care to be inclusive to the idiot club, please proceed Sir. For the most part, Timbo is very knowledgeable and can hold his own due to being well read on many subjects. Maybe something we all can mimic that, including myself and have more educated and intelligent debates instead of pissing contests, which is the standard here for the last few years.
So are you saying you are an idiot ? I would suggest that you follow timbo a little closer before you stick up for him. timbo can't make a post without letting everyone know how superior he thinks he is. If you're looking for and intelligent debate you came to the wrong place. crazy
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#1489134 --- 09/01/16 05:51 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: scwoodchuck]
Formermac Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 8060
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Originally Posted By: Formermac
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
You should talk, you only read parts of something and then get ripped to shreds with your own posts.


In all fairness, you're detouring from the original topic but personal sidetracking has achieved just that, off topic. I'm a retired master electrician who allowed himself to get into a fray with someone (Bluezone) I construe as not even a novice when speaking in regard electrical infrastructure, so that action makes for 2 idiots instead of one, now if you care to be inclusive to the idiot club, please proceed Sir. For the most part, Timbo is very knowledgeable and can hold his own due to being well read on many subjects. Maybe something we all can mimic that, including myself and have more educated and intelligent debates instead of pissing contests, which is the standard here for the last few years.
So are you saying you are an idiot ? I would suggest that you follow timbo a little closer before you stick up for him. timbo can't make a post without letting everyone know how superior he thinks he is. If you're looking for and intelligent debate you came to the wrong place. crazy


That's exactly what I stated, now if I debated any further with you in regard to this off topic subject that will make 3 idiots.....since you have not the ability to stay on topic and you somehow failed to comprehend.....may I help you in that regard or can you of your own accord do the honorable thing,act like an adult and resume the 10 million dollar topic? whistle

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#1489139 --- 09/01/16 07:51 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Formermac]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Gee, and all this time I thought you were talking about SOLAR POWER. LIKE 2 PAGES OF IT !!! Forget about the 10 million because you can bet it's already spent. crazy
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#1489140 --- 09/02/16 07:10 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Formermac]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1551
Loc: New York, Seneca
This is great, timbo says some of the 10 million should be used for stricter gun control laws, Chuck provides info that stricter laws don't work. Now Chuck is off topic. You start talking about idiots, Chuck asks if you are an idiot, now Chuck is off topic again. The best part is when you complain about bluezone. You haven't figured out that bluezone is just messing with you like he messes with everyone. He is just trying to drive you nuts and it seems to be working. grin He is smarter than you think and it seems he is smarter than both you and timbo. crazy
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#1489141 --- 09/02/16 08:24 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Hello_Governer]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13185
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
timbo says some of the 10 million should be used for stricter gun control laws. Chuck provides info that stricter laws don't work.

No, I'm saying that employing more cops is a demonstrably ineffective way to curb gun crime, and NOW I'm saying that both you and "Chuckles" have proven yourselves to be both grossly uninformed about the scientific, rigorously established correlation between high rates of gun ownership and increased gun crime and are also confused as to the difference between that of proper scientific methodology and of bootless propaganda.
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#1489142 --- 09/02/16 09:12 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: Timbo]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1351
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
RIGHT crazy
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#1489201 --- 09/03/16 10:08 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: scwoodchuck]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
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Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
RIGHT crazy

Please elaborate in order to clarify your point (assuming you actually HAVE one). smirk
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#1495349 --- 02/13/17 01:33 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: pingu]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pingu
We have a city with 60% off the tax roles


nearly $3 million for two projects?

one project will create a small amount of jobs

the most any one project should get is about $100,000

if a project is not able to stand on its own is it even viable?

the money should be put into a revloving loan fund

only loaned out to projects that are viable, benefit the city and lower the tax burden for the taxpaying homeowners
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#1495405 --- 02/14/17 08:17 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: bluezone]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 1351
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This is just our illustrious governor laying the groundwork for his run for president. Or to put it simpler Cuomo's just buying votes.


Edited by scwoodchuck (02/14/17 09:08 PM)
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#1496940 --- 03/23/17 08:17 AM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pingu
We have a city with 60% off the tax roles


IDA approves nearly $40 million in tax breaks for guardian glass

1 step forward and 4 steps back or

10 million steps forward and nearly 40 million steps back
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#1496950 --- 03/23/17 12:37 PM Re: $10 Million for Geneva! [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13185
Loc: CNY

Why is it that so many Republicans, Libertarians and the like, rail vociferously against NY for allegedly having poor tax incentives for business investment, yet seem to bleat the loudest when such methods are put into action in their own community?

NIMBY, right? eek

So much for supply-side economics.
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