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#1487389 --- 07/25/16 03:52 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Formermac]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 13049
Loc: Above ground
If history serves itself correctly, many court cases came down to NA not looking for monetary settlements but more so asking for their land back, thus the FACT that many cases being held up in courts for decades to come. One question, who pays the legal fees to defend the local anti Native American groups during these long drawn out court battles? In regard to court battles, any particular case you wish to discuss?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Supreme_Court_cases_involving_Indian_tribes

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#1487390 --- 07/25/16 04:13 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Formermac]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 13049
Loc: Above ground

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#1487400 --- 07/25/16 08:34 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: grinch]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5568
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: grinch
AS local Indian news is lacking and what has happened elsewhere has not been prominent enough to grasp the attention of local news outlets this website is being used to discuss ancient history of the rise and fall of the Iroquois. If that bothers anyone, try some other forum that might interest you.

Formermac you keep insisting we stick with the topic while posting remarks not even close to discussing the current issues and preface them with snide remarks. You attempt to cut off rebuttals by trying to change the subject which you already changed.

No matter which way a poster responds, you change the topic or insert something guaranteed to inflame the reader.
Therefore it is an open forum discussing Tribal matters current and historic. As we are dealing with the Cayugas in this area that is where my interests lie.

Try reading “The Cayuga Chronicles” by Prof. Warren Hickman which covers in detail how the Cayuga came here, what they were like, and various events that has shaped their heritage. Note the Cherokee are mentioned here and there and note the treatment of them by the Iroquois. There are numerous citations and references as to where this information is and how it applies in the written narrative. By the way the Cayuga were the one’s suing, and have sued us numerous times. We the occupiers of this land cannot sue an Indian Tribe regardless of what occurs. Who does the law favor in this situation? To my knowledge many of the arguments expressed here were used by the Cayuga in court and they have yet to win a final verdict. Personally I would like to see the issue of Indian Sovereignty brought before the Supreme Court and resolve the matter one way or another. That is what my research indicates, if that is wrong cite the court verdict that indicates they have won.

EXACTLY! However Grinch, one cannot entice someone to do what they don't want to.

As I have explained to the “fact” boy, that the opinions of SCOTUS are what determine what is valid law and that is the fact. He just doesn't like the facts.

As you well noted, nobody can sue a tribe due to their sovereign immunity. Ten cases before SCOTUS this year all challenged Plenary Power and we make further headway all the time. CERA files amicus briefs regularly and it's obvious they are having an impact. The lawsuits by UCE, CERA and others against the DOI land into trust for the NY Oneida are in the Second Circuit now. That case will directly impact any Cayuga lawsuit.

There are some here who feel they have to prove themselves. I'm reminded of Steve Martin in The Jerk when he reads his name in the phone book and exclaims “I AM SOMEBODY”.

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#1487401 --- 07/25/16 08:47 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 13049
Loc: Above ground
Well you've just proven that "Somebody can't offer citation" only receive citations. wink
Did you go to court or did you settle? somethings aren't arbitrary are they?



Edited by Formermac (07/25/16 08:54 PM)

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#1487402 --- 07/25/16 09:13 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Formermac]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 13049
Loc: Above ground

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#1487403 --- 07/25/16 09:26 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Formermac]
secure white guy Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/13
Posts: 455
Loc: blue yoga mat



Thank you!

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#1487424 --- 07/26/16 08:40 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14391
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
As I have explained to the “fact” boy, that the opinions of SCOTUS are what determine what is valid law and that is the fact. He just doesn't like the facts.

Black’s Law Dictionary, 6th Edition, page 504:

Duress:
“Any unlawful threat or coercion used by a person to induce another to act (or to refrain from acting) in a manner he or she otherwise would not (or would). Subjecting person to improper pressure which overcomes his will and coerces him to comply with demand to which he would not yield if acting as free agent. Head v. Gadsden Civil Service Bd., Ala.Civ.App., 389 So.2d 516, 519. Application of such pressure or constraint as compels man to go against his will, and takes away his free agency, destroying power of refusing to comply with unjust demands of another.
[Haumont v. Security State Bank, 220 Neb. 809, 374 N.W.2d 2,6.]

The foundation of our system of free government, according to the Declaration of Independence, is the “consent of the governed”. Below is the definition of “consent” from Black’s Law Dictionary:

Consent:
A concurrence of wills. Voluntarily yielding the will to the proposition of another; acquiescence or compliance therewith. Agreement; approval; permission; the act or result of coming into harmony or accord. Consent is an act of reason, accompanied with deliberation, the mind weighing as in a balance the good or evil on each side. It means voluntary agreement by a person in the possession and exercise of sufficient mental capacity to make an intelligent choice to do something proposed by another. It supposes a physical power to act, a moral power of acting, and a serious, determined, and free use of these powers. Consent is implied in every agreement. It is an act unclouded by fraud, duress, or sometimes even mistake.

“Willingness in fact that an act or an invasion of an interest shall take place.
[Restatement, Second, Torts §10A.]


‘Consent’ means consent of the will, and submission under the influence of fear or terror cannot amount to real consent. There must be an exercise of intelligence based on knowledge of its significance and moral quality and there must be a choice between resistance and assent. And if one resists to the point where further resistance would be useless or until one's resistance is overcome by force or violence, submission thereafter is not ‘consent’.
[Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, page 305]

The key word above is “voluntary”, which is then defined as follows in the same dictionary:

Voluntary:
Unconstrained by interference; unimpelled by another’s influence; spontaneous; acting of oneself. Coker v. State, 199 Ga. 20, 33 S.E.2d 171, 174. Done by design or intention. Proceeding from the free and unrestrained will of the person. Produced in or by an act of choice. Resulting from free choice, without compulsion or solicitation. The word, especially in statutes, often implies knowledge of essential facts. Without valuable consideration; gratuitous, as a voluntary conveyance. Also, having a merely nominal consideration; as, a voluntary deed.”
[Black’s Law Dictionary, 6th Edition, page 1575]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duress
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undue_influence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercion
http://legal.un.org/diplomaticconferences/lawoftreaties-1969/docs/english/confdocs/a_conf_39_26.pdf


http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-19291-3_55#page-1


Article Six of the United States Constitution:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Six_of_the_United_States_Constitution
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1487439 --- 07/26/16 11:01 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 13049
Loc: Above ground
So sad that he's his own worse enemy not to mention, very hypocritical. There was an article in your local paper 2 years ago reporting violations on certain farms. PMs sent to me stated that certain farmer felt that they were discriminated against because the Food and Drug Agency told them to get their act together. What's astounding is the fact that some of these farmers felt that they were singled out because of personal opinions in regard to land claims. Why minimize one group while screaming bloody murder when you receive treatment far less harmful? Yet here we are, a poor unfortunate fellow who was ready to sue the agency due to what he deem discrimination against himself. Discrimination is only valid when you're of a certain group of people I guess. wink

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#1487441 --- 07/26/16 11:46 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Formermac]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
I am quite sure that no one has ever changed their opinion on the NA situation one iota by anything that was posted on here by anyone. We just do it to justify our preconceived opinions to our self. That is sad when you think about it. frown
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**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1487442 --- 07/26/16 11:59 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 13049
Loc: Above ground
When you get down to it, opinions will always be opinions but when those particular traits turn to action...there son, you have a problem. An example....there are many people that I could care more or less in dealing with but in my line of business and Christian lifestyle, my personal opinion don't count. In yours and few others, you see the world with dark glasses and no amount of intelligence, common sense or decorum changes your personal view of people, thus the reason that we have so much hate and division. Something tells me that if your life depend on it, certain races of doctors would have to step back due to your preconceived prejudices. In regard to NA affairs, you're incorrect, many have already changed their opinion and mindset, they're called compassionate human beings. Good day

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#1487454 --- 07/26/16 07:02 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Formermac]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Formermac
Something tells me that if your life depend on it, certain races of doctors would have to step back due to your preconceived prejudices.
What? You could not be more wrong. That shows how little you know about or understand me.
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1487455 --- 07/26/16 07:06 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 13049
Loc: Above ground
Prove me wrong son, you walked right into my well designed trap. A tried and true hypocrite who has no problem prejudging others but the moment someone judges you........ THANK YOU!!!!!!! laugh

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#1487456 --- 07/26/16 07:06 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Formermac]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: mermac
In regard to NA affairs, you're incorrect, many have already changed their opinion and mindset, they're called compassionate human beings.
Like George W. Bush who called himself a compassionate conservative? grin Do you think you or Timbo have changed the opinion or mindset of anyone on here? If you ask Trump I am sure he will tell you he is the world's most compassionate person. wink
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1487457 --- 07/26/16 07:08 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Formermac]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 13049
Loc: Above ground
Do you dare have me bring up one whole year of your posts attesting to negative judgement toward others without the benefit knowing all your facts?

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#1487458 --- 07/26/16 07:10 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Formermac]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Formermac
Do you dare have me bring up one whole year of your posts attesting to negative judgement toward others without the benefit knowing all your facts?
I have stated on here many times that I think all men are created equal and should be treated that way. So I dare you.
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1487459 --- 07/26/16 07:16 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 13049
Loc: Above ground
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Neither Dinesh or myself stated anything which wasn’t logically common sense.

Your own stance replied to Kyle many moons ago that tribes should have autonomous plenary authority over all other races made clear your racist totalitarian philosophy.

Not only did I never say or imply such an abjectly idiotic thing. You're also unabashedly deluded if you believe that "common sense" is common... to any two individuals on the face of the planet.

https://ahhamoments.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/control-freak_confession-11.pdf

Your audacity to suggest intolerance on my part, in light of your past homophobic and anti-Indian slurs on these forums is nothing short of execrable.

It appears you may be suffering from Alzheimer’s. If your lying is not pathological, then it is overtly obvious you fit Dinesh’s example like a glove.

Instead of opting for equality under the law you opt for the revisionist history

After toying with Kyle in well over a dozen posts lying about answering his question, you finally replied with:
1446974 - 05/08/14 05:23 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Let's start with their Freedom and Unimpeded Sovereignty.

And followed with:
1448158 - 05/20/14 10:51 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Give 'em back the due and unlimited sovereignty that they are entitled to, as the original inhabitants of this land.

And when he asked you to explain what you meant by unlimited sovereignty you told him to Google it.

To which I replied:
1448264 - 05/20/14 10:14 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Whoa Kyle. Don’t blow it off. Timbo actually finally answered your question of what he wants us to do.

Instead you ask it what unlimited sovereignty means.

Its reply of Google is as close as can be.

A return to lawlessness and tribal warfare, ethnic cleansing with no accountability and a make believe world as if they had won the war. That is what it wants regardless of how idiotic and childish it is.

See why I stopped feeding it?



1448189 - 05/20/14 12:40 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Timbo]
Why should anyone cooperate with your Q & As, when you won't play by the same rules that you demand of others?

And yet, you refuse to give your land back. As Dinesh states so well “For you this hypocrisy is fully justified because you are militating on behalf of the poor. But you will never turn the mirror on yourself and ask “what am I doing about it”?

Your accusations of accusing anyone disagreeing with you of being what you yourself are is your standard M.O. and replying to your fantasies, denials and lies are indeed a waste of time. Your own frustrations of seldom being correct and attacking others exposing you led to your being banned not once, but twice.

I won’t play your game. To throw a couple of your own posts back at you -

Timmy quote: 1448424 - 05/22/14 09:49 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Deal with it.

Timmy quote: 445428 - 04/22/14 01:18 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
I participate on these forums, on my terms, not on yours.

Description of Timbo:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Timbo&defid=4013033
Great post Rich. Timbo is so blind when it comes to the Indians. He tries to send me on wild choose chases. It is obvious he wants to give all of America back to them. He just won't admit it because he knows how well that wold go over with any rational person. How he can believe that and say he served proudly in the US military is amazing.


Is this all proven fact or just your opinion?
Ready to go post by post son? believe me, you'll be amazed at what you assumed without benefit of fact.

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#1487460 --- 07/26/16 07:17 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: kyle585]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 13049
Loc: Above ground
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: mermac
In regard to NA affairs, you're incorrect, many have already changed their opinion and mindset, they're called compassionate human beings.
Like George W. Bush who called himself a compassionate conservative? grin Do you think you or Timbo have changed the opinion or mindset of anyone on here? If you ask Trump I am sure he will tell you he is the world's most compassionate person. wink



Prove me wrong son, you walked right into my well designed trap. A tried and true hypocrite who has no problem prejudging others but the moment someone judges you........ THANK YOU!!!!!!! laugh

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#1487461 --- 07/26/16 07:29 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Formermac]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 13049
Loc: Above ground
It's amazing how fast a hypocrite will defend themselves. Care to retrace your footsteps while I add more contradictory statements to your resume of opinions and assumptions of others? In all fairness, the only thing I really know about you is the PMs I have received in regard to your character,either they're all liars or I'll have to stop believing my lying eyes. Now once you stop defending yourself, maybe, just maybe the debate can have respectful opposing views and not only yours. Acting like a spoil brat when someone disagrees is a poor quality to possess, especially when you deem yourself, Rich and grinch the voice of your community, which is sad commentary in itself.

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#1487545 --- 07/28/16 05:08 PM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5568
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Taunton citizens group wins federal court case to stop casino; tribe expected to appeal


A U.S. District Court judge has sided with a group of Taunton citizens looking to block the construction of a casino planned in the city by the Mashpee Wampanoag Tribe, which is expected to appeal the decision.

The attorney representing the residents, Adam Bond, told The Enterprise that Judge William G. Young ruled that the federal government erred when it granted land in trust status for a Native American reservation in Taunton last year.
Federal law allows tribes to open casinos on reservations, and the Mashpee Wampanoag tribe began work on its planned $1 billion project in the spring.

Young ruled that the U.S. Department of Interior's interpretation of the Indian Reorganization Act, used to validate the land in trust status, goes against a proper reading of the law. Young cited the 2008 U.S. Supreme Court Carcieri v. Salazar to invalidate the decision to grand land in trust made by secretary of Interior. The Supreme Court decision ruled that the phrase "now under Federal jurisdiction" in the Indian Reorganization Act meant that only tribes federally recognized in 1934, when the U.S. law was passed, were eligible to get land into federal trust.

"In light of the Supreme Court’s interpretation of 'now under Federal jurisdiction' to mean under Federal jurisdiction in June 1934, the Secretary lacked the authority to acquire land in trust for the Mashpees, as they were not then under Federal jurisdiction," Young's ruling stated.

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#1487571 --- 07/29/16 09:19 AM Re: Still More Tribal News [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14391
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Taunton citizens group wins federal court case to stop casino; tribe expected to appeal


A U.S. District Court judge has sided with a group of Taunton citizens looking to block the construction of a casino planned in the city by the Mashpee Wampanoag Tribe, which is expected to appeal the decision.

The attorney representing the residents, Adam Bond, told The Enterprise that Judge William G. Young ruled that the federal government erred when it granted land in trust status for a Native American reservation in Taunton last year.
Federal law allows tribes to open casinos on reservations, and the Mashpee Wampanoag tribe began work on its planned $1 billion project in the spring.

Young ruled that the U.S. Department of Interior's interpretation of the Indian Reorganization Act, used to validate the land in trust status, goes against a proper reading of the law. Young cited the 2008 U.S. Supreme Court Carcieri v. Salazar to invalidate the decision to grand land in trust made by secretary of Interior. The Supreme Court decision ruled that the phrase "now under Federal jurisdiction" in the Indian Reorganization Act meant that only tribes federally recognized in 1934, when the U.S. law was passed, were eligible to get land into federal trust.

"In light of the Supreme Court’s interpretation of 'now under Federal jurisdiction' to mean under Federal jurisdiction in June 1934, the Secretary lacked the authority to acquire land in trust for the Mashpees, as they were not then under Federal jurisdiction," Young's ruling stated.


Anti-Indian activists Michelle and Dave Littlefield are leading the drive against a Mashpee Wampanoag casino in Taunton with help from Anti-Indian Group "Citizens Equal Rights Alliance":

"The Littlefields said their opposition is simple: They don’t consider the Mashpee to be a legitimate tribe. Michelle Littlefield said research shows the tribe “ceased to exist” under a government policy of assimilation carried out in the 19th century.

The federal Bureau of Indian Affairs read the history differently and conferred federal recognition on the Mashpee in 2007, the first step in building the casino. The agency later backed the tribe’s contention that its ancestors once lived on the Taunton land where the casino is planned."


https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/0...NPPI/story.html


Bigoted Nationalism Opens Citizens Equal Rights Alliance (CERA’s) New Year:

For the Citizens Equal Rights Alliance (CERA), 2016 has begun where 2015 left off – promoting bigotry toward indigenous people and attacks on tribal rights, conspiracy mongering and Islamophobia, and continuing the group’s development as the Indian “expert” for a broader far right movement.

http://lastrealindians.com/bigoted-nationalism-opens-citizens-equal-rights-alliance-ceras-new-year/


Any way you look at it, The Tribe's Ancestors land was stolen from them through forced assimilation. Any "profits" obtained through such, are illegal according to all US and International Law.
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