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#1477574 --- 10/28/15 02:31 PM Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Please sign the petition . . . Thank you!

LETTER TO
Bob Aronson, Executive Director Seneca County IDA
Andy Zepp, Finger Lakes Land Trust
Erin Crotty, Audubon NY
Brian Shapiro, HSUS NY
Wayne Pacelle, HSUS
Paul D'Amato, DEC Region 8
Donald Earle, Seneca County Board of Supervisors
Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot

According to the Rochester Business Journal:

"After two decades of marketing the site, the IDA is planning to sell the remaining land, which is some 7,000 acres, said Bob Aronson, IDA executive director. Of the 7,000 acres, roughly 3,000 acres are located in the town of Varick and some 4,000 acres are in Romulus.

The IDA is planning to sell the depot because the Army’s environmental clean-up is expected to be completed in 2016. The IDA cannot afford to take on the caretaker responsibilities, which include management of the depot property, security, fence repair and maintenance, and wildlife management, officials said.

Also, the IDA is eager to see the depot returned to the tax rolls, increasing the county’s tax base and serving as an economic asset, officials said.

The IDA has been approached by bidders for the depot property in recent months, Aronson said, and the agency wants to give the public, including other prospective buyers, an opportunity to learn more.

The meeting will take place at 10 a.m. Nov. 7 at Romulus Fire Hall, 2010 Cayuga St., in the town of Romulus, Seneca County.

In all of the prior plans for the Depot, a permanent conservation area was designated. According to the IDA website, the likely location will be an area in the northeast section of the Depot, approximately 1500 acres, with a 60 acre pond. “The secure, natural setting creates a unique biosphere that is home to a herd of white deer as well as other native flora and fauna. Potentials: Actively managed conservation area to preserve wildlife unique to the Depot. ”

This area is not only the home to the white deer but is designated an Important Bird Area by the Audubon Society and the home of Bald Eagles, Northern Harriers, and Short Eared Owls as well as numerous other migrating species of birds. .

Moving ahead with a sale, without designating a conservation area and professional and experienced bird and wildlife management, will doom the white deer and the other unique species.

This petition asks the The Humane Society Wildlife Land Trust, Finger Lakes Land Trust, Audubon Society, the Seneca County IDA and Board of Supervisors to work together to designate a conservation area and a plan to maintain, manage and protect the white deer, wildlife and birds of the Seneca Army Depot."

https://www.change.org/p/save-the-white-...medium=copylink


Edited by Ghosts (10/28/15 03:24 PM)
Edit Reason: Added content
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#1477576 --- 10/28/15 02:45 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Devil's Advocate Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 231
Loc: 6th Circle of Hell
The white deer are white because they are inbred.

Inbred animals are less healthy and more prone to various diseases. Anyone who looks at them will see they are smaller than regular, healthy, deer.

Trying to keep them around amounts to animal cruelty.

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#1477577 --- 10/28/15 02:52 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Devil's Advocate]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Devil's Advocate
The white deer are white because they are inbred.

Inbred animals are less healthy and more prone to various diseases. Anyone who looks at them will see they are smaller than regular, healthy, deer.

Trying to keep them around amounts to animal cruelty.
I never heard this about them before? They seem to have done quite well on the depot for 70-80 years or so.
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#1477578 --- 10/28/15 02:55 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Devil's Advocate]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
ABOUT THE WHITE DEER

The white deer found at Seneca Army Depot are a natural variation of the white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus), which normally have brown coloring. The Seneca White Deer are leucistic, meaning they lack all pigmentation in the hair but have the normal brown-colored eyes. Albino deer, which lack only the pigment melanin, have pink eyes and are extremely rare. The Seneca White Deer interbreed freely with the brown deer in the former Depot and appear to share the habitat equally. Some of the white bucks show a flattening, or palmation, of the antlers, but are physiologically similar in most other ways.

The white deer of Seneca Army Depot are leucistic. ©Dennis Money The genetics of these deer have not been studied extensively, but a recessive gene for lack of pigmentation apparently prevents normal (i.e. brown) coloration of the hair. Management of the white deer within the former Depot increases the proportion of deer exhibiting the trait.

See more at: http://senecawhitedeer.org/white-deer-natural-resources/white-deer-seneca-army-depot/#.dpuf
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#1477580 --- 10/28/15 02:58 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Devil's Advocate]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
They are beautiful and so worth saving.

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#1477581 --- 10/28/15 03:00 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Currently, white deer account for about 200 of the approximately 800 deer within the Depot fence. The future of the deer, as well as the rest of the wildlife in the former Depot’s Conservation area will depend on how the Seneca County Industrial Development Agency decides the 10,000 acre site should be used. - See more at: http://senecawhitedeer.org/white-deer-natural-resources/white-deer-seneca-army-depot/#.dpuf
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#1477586 --- 10/28/15 03:29 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2298
Loc: Seneca Lake
It is not just the white deer, but all the other animals and birds.

This area is not only the home to the white deer but is designated an Important Bird Area by the Audubon Society and the home of Bald Eagles, Osprey, Northern Harriers, and Short Eared Owls as well as numerous other migrating species of birds.


The IDA, on its website, suggests an area in the Northeast Section of the Depot that could be used for conservation and public recreation, protecting the deer and other wildlife and birds for the public and future generations.

Moving ahead with a sale, without actually designating a conservation area and professional and experienced bird and wildlife management, will doom the white deer and the other unique species.


Petition to save the deer birds and wildlife

This petition asks the The Humane Society Wildlife Land Trust, Finger Lakes Land Trust, Audubon Society, the Seneca County IDA, Board of Supervisors and others to work together to designate a conservation area and a plan to maintain, manage and protect the white deer, wildlife and birds of the Seneca Army Depot.
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#1477589 --- 10/28/15 03:52 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Teonan Offline
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Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 4814
Loc: The Annex

Signed. Info shared. Thank you.
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#1477590 --- 10/28/15 03:59 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Devil's Advocate Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 231
Loc: 6th Circle of Hell
Originally Posted By: kyle585
They are beautiful and so worth saving


A puppy mill puppy looks pretty but it's still inbred and unhealthy. The same thing applies to the deer. Basically, you want the county to breed designer animals for your own amusement.

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#1477592 --- 10/28/15 04:26 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Devil's Advocate]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Devil's Advocate
Originally Posted By: kyle585
They are beautiful and so worth saving

A puppy mill puppy looks pretty but it's still inbred and unhealthy. The same thing applies to the deer. Basically, you want the county to breed designer animals for your own amusement.
I hate puppy mills full of caged animals. There is noting pretty about them. They should all be banned. To compare them to white deer running free over thousands of acres is outrageous. Note there are 200 white deer interbreeding with 800 brown deer creating a sight unseen anywhere else in the world. I know there have been reports of seeing deer there that are part brown and part white.


Edited by kyle585 (10/28/15 04:36 PM)
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#1477593 --- 10/28/15 04:29 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Teonan]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Teonan
Signed. Info shared. Thank you.
I signed also.
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#1477659 --- 10/30/15 08:47 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Ghosts Offline
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Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Trick-or-Treat for Seneca White Deer

South Seneca schools

South Seneca English Language Arts (ELA) teachers Kimberly deCoudres and Patricia Parsons, along with the students from their ELA 7, ELA 8, and ELA 9A classes, are gearing up for a year-long exploration of our community and what makes our community unique. The two decided to focus on the Seneca White Deer, the world’s largest White Deer herd that takes up residence in our community’s backyard.

Located in the former Seneca Army Depot in Romulus, the 10,000 acre facility is the home to the Seneca White Deer. The Seneca White Deer group, led by the president of the organization Dennis Money, is trying to raise awareness of the White Deer. The group is also attempting to create an Eco-Tourism facility that will showcase the White Deer as well as other wildlife in the Depot.

To start off our studies, students will be collecting money to donate to the Seneca White Deer group to help in their efforts to save the White Deer. Students will be asking friends and family to donate to this worthwhile cause in an effort to preserve the White Deer population in our area, the largest White Deer herd in the world. Over the course of the year, students will be looking at unique facets of our community and taking action on those unique things! Please consider supporting the students in their efforts to preserve a piece of our community before it is too late.

For more information on the Seneca White Deer, please visit www.senecawhitedeer.org To donate to the Trick-or-Treat for Seneca White Deer please contact Patty Parsons at 869-9636×1249 or pparsons@southseneca.org .

http://senecadaily.com/#axzz3pz29OD3c
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#1477682 --- 10/30/15 09:46 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
http://protectthewhitedeer.com/

White deer are again protected in all of Wisconsin grin
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#1477905 --- 11/05/15 08:34 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Headless Horseman Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 213
Didn't I read it would cost at least half a million a year to run a white deer game preserve? Who thinks the county can afford that?

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#1477909 --- 11/05/15 09:42 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Headless Horseman]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Headless Horseman
Didn't I read it would cost at least half a million a year to run a white deer game preserve? Who thinks the county can afford that?
After Lago gets build, we are going to be rolling in the money.
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#1477922 --- 11/05/15 02:18 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
why is it that people like you think wild animals should be allowed to roam free, EXCEPT THE WHITE DEER ??????? crazy
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#1477926 --- 11/05/15 04:06 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2298
Loc: Seneca Lake
Not just the white deer but all the deer at the depot They have been living behind fences with humans for over 60 years. They come to the fence for photos and treats from tourists.

They are no longer "wild animals' with natural fear of humans and sense of danger.

This is not hunting or "conservation."
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#1477929 --- 11/05/15 04:40 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
The fence wasn't to keep the deer in but to keep people out and the Army allowed hunting for decades. Now you want to fence the deer in and over population and inbreeding will wipe them out. The white deer in Wisconsin aren't fenced in. A half hour ago I was within 10 feet of a deer, he was under my apple tree in my back yard.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/tompdmfa.pdf
DEC has established a special Deer Management Focus Area (DMFA) in a 60,000 acre area ... The 60,000 acre focus area includes the city and town of Ithaca


Edited by Hello_Governer (11/05/15 04:45 PM)
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#1477946 --- 11/05/15 09:01 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2298
Loc: Seneca Lake
huh?

not following this at all.
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#1477977 --- 11/06/15 10:52 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
newsman38 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4947
Loc: Fourth Estate
Interested in Depot’s future? Submit a bid

The Seneca County Industrial Development Agency will be hosting a public information meeting Saturday, Nov. 7, at the Romulus Fire Hall to discuss the sale of the former Seneca Army Depot.

Those interested in the future of the Depot property need to recognize that the land is going up for sale this year.

After two decades of marketing the Depot for economic development, the IDA is initiating a formal Invitation for Bids to purchase all or part of the approximately 7,000 acres — 3,000 of which are located in the town of Varick and 4,000 in the town of Romulus.

Saturday’s meeting will be a platform to provide information to potential buyers and will not be focused on what the IDA should or should not do with the Depot land — the IDA is selling the Depot.

The IDA is selling the land due to two main reasons. First, the Army’s environmental cleanup is planned for completion in 2016. As a result, the Army’s caretaker responsibilities are winding down, and the IDA cannot afford to take on these responsibilities, which include management of the large property, security, fence maintenance and wildlife management. Second, the IDA would like to see the land returned to the tax rolls, increasing the county’s tax base and serving as an economic asset.

The IDA will work to ensure that the sale of the Depot property is an open and fair process and is inviting any and all prospective buyers to come forward and submit bids. For anyone who has ever had an interest in buying the Depot property, this will be your best, and possibly your only, opportunity to make an offer.

For those who are not familiar with the land, the IDA will offer some detailed information on the Depot property at Saturday’s meeting. This includes information on existing land use as well as basic information on federal and state wetlands.

The IDA recognizes that the Depot is an asset to the community — it’s why we are moving forward with a sale to put it to good use. The sale of the Depot will provide the county with a well-utilized piece of property that increases its tax base and serves as an economic asset to the region.

Every proposal that’s submitted as part of the formal bidding process will be considered carefully. Ultimately, it is the IDA’s responsibility to select a buyer or buyers that will bring the most value to the county.

In the meantime, we look forward to meeting prospective buyers at the public information meeting at 10 a.m. this Saturday at the Romulus Fire Hall, 2010 Cayuga St. in Romulus. For more details about the Depot property, please visit www.senecaarmydepotreuse.com.

By BOB ARONSON | Posted: Thursday, November 5, 2015 5:00 pm

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#1478047 --- 11/07/15 09:21 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2298
Loc: Seneca Lake
Reminder to sign the petition:


Save the deer, birds and wildlife petition


Edited by all seeing eye (11/07/15 09:24 PM)
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#1478607 --- 11/17/15 09:32 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Reminder to sign the petition:


Save the deer, birds and wildlife petition


LETTER: Forward thinking needs to be done before white deer are gone


To the Editor:

I felt really bad for the kids in Ovid that were trick-or-treating for the white deer herd. Someone needs to tell them they live in Seneca County, not America.

In Seneca County we have a group of unelected “good old boys” called the IDA. They get to decide the fate of our public lands. They have decided after 70 years of being off the tax rolls the old depot needs to go back on so they can make some more money. They need lots of money to build a casino.

The county also feels it’s much too hard to drive an extra 10 minutes to go around the depot. So we have to ram a road through the rarest deer herd in the world and their habitat. We don’t really need an extra road, and somehow they found a way to keep the DEC from doing an environmental impact study. They tell us we can’t make use of the two prisons inside the Depot to maintain fences. And they said they can’t possibly afford to maintain the property, or let the public have any access to their land. But they can find $43 million to assist in building a casino.

Sorry kids, maybe someday, instead of a white deer wilderness park that would bring tourists south of the Thruway, you can make a trip by the largest dump in the world and go to the casino. They might have a picture of the white deer in the lobby so you can see what they used to look like. They need to split the depot and sell off your land.

GREG D. ZOLLER

Seneca Falls

http://www.fltimes.com/opinion/letters_t...d.html?mode=jqm
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#1478629 --- 11/17/15 01:04 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: ]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/trophy-bucks/biggest-albino-deer-ever/
Oct 25, 2011 ... The biggest albino deer ever might be this protected brute that was .... I live in PA. they had all white crowns until they started rubbing trees, ...

they're going to have to buy land in at least 10 states grin

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/23/albino-deer-hunting/4175181/
Dec 23, 2013 ... The white-tailed deer "glowed," he said, but not because of its tail. ... They are illegal to kill in several states, including Illinois; Iowa; portions of Montana; ... More albino deer sightings are reported in Williamson County , where


Edited by Hello_Governer (11/17/15 01:07 PM)
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#1478631 --- 11/17/15 02:14 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Monte Cristo Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 146
Loc: Seneca County
Sorry Ghost but your post has several fibs.

1. How does the IDA make money by putting this land back on the tax rolls? The taxpayers benefit for sure.

2. How did the IDA prevent the DEC from doing an environmental study?

3. The IDA is spending $43,000,000 to assist building the casino? Please explain.

Take your time replying. I'll wait.

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#1478654 --- 11/17/15 07:25 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Top Dog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 1999
Loc: Lap Dog
4. How is the IDA going to make "lots of money" when they are offering the Romulus land and Varick land to each township for a dollar?

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#1478669 --- 11/18/15 12:19 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
Oldgzr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 1004
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/trophy-bucks/biggest-albino-deer-ever/
Oct 25, 2011 ... The biggest albino deer ever might be this protected brute that was .... I live in PA. they had all white crowns until they started rubbing trees, ...

they're going to have to buy land in at least 10 states grin



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/23/albino-deer-hunting/4175181/
Dec 23, 2013 ... The white-tailed deer "glowed," he said, but not because of its tail. ... They are illegal to kill in several states, including Illinois; Iowa; portions of Montana; ... More albino deer sightings are reported in Williamson County , where




The deer in the depot are not albino. They are a unique species. Albinos have red eyes. The white deer in the depot have brown or grey eyes the same as the brown deer.

Back I the day that the white deer started showing up, the depot was being maintained and the grasslands mowed. This helped to provide a better source of food for the deer. Now everything is turning to weeds and the deer are fenced in so that they cannot get to the farm crops and green grass to feed. If people want to preserve this species someone is going to have to spend some money to maintain a food source for them. If not, they will be better off to take down the fences rather than losing them to a mass starvation.



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#1478683 --- 11/18/15 09:02 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Oldgzr]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
" The deer in the depot are not albino. They are a unique species "

WRONG

they are inbred mutants, kinda like people who are born with 6 fingers on each hand or huge ears or a gigantic nose. Deer are brown for a reason and white deer, in nature, would have been killed off by predators because the young would not be able to hide without the natural camouflage. Not all white deer are albino.

www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/82404332/


so people with different colored hair are unique species crazy


Edited by Hello_Governer (11/18/15 09:18 AM)
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#1478685 --- 11/18/15 09:29 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
Oldgzr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 1004
Loc: NY
I completely agree with you that the deer at the depot are inbred and are a mutated species of brown deer. I never said anything about that in my post but that wasn't really the point I was trying to make. Where you are wrong is in calling them Albinos. All Albinos whether they be animals or human have red eyes. The white deer in the depot do not have red eyes and are therefore not Albino.

The main point that I was trying to make in my post was that if people believe that this mutated species should be allowed to exist they are going to have to have a source of food.

You are also correct in stating that if they are introduced back into the world outside of the depot that they will eventually die off. Not only will their young ones not have any camouflage protection from predators, they will start breeding with brown deer and receive the genes that make brown deer.

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#1478690 --- 11/18/15 11:09 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Oldgzr]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
They are not a mutated species of brown deer. You are wrong when you use the word SPECIES, THEY ARE WHITE TAILED DEER WITH A GENE FOR WHITE COLOR. ALSO they already breed with the brown deer it's that the genes for the white hair is dominant, like a child who has a mother with red hair and a father with black hair but the child has red hair or vice versa. If they were true albino they would really be special.
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#1478698 --- 11/18/15 12:14 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
Oldgzr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 1004
Loc: NY

Definition of the word species Source: Merriam Webster Dictionary

Noun: spe·cies

biology : a group of animals or plants that are similar and can produce young animals or plants : a group of related animals or plants that is smaller than a genus

: a particular group of things or people that belong together or have some shared quality.




It seems that we have different understandings on the meaning of words and that is why we are disagreeing with each other. According to the above definition I was correct in my use of the word species.

When I used the term "brown deer" in my feeble old mind that means white tail deer because that is virtually what all of the deer in this part of the country are. Other than our differences in the meaning of words I am essentially in agreement with you.

I'm not trying to drag out a long debate here because the main point that I was trying to express is that if no one is willing to keep them contained in the Depot and provide a food source for them they will eventually die off due to starvation.




Edited by Oldgzr (11/18/15 12:17 PM)

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#1478706 --- 11/18/15 12:52 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Oldgzr]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14300
Loc: CNY

Just to clear things up in order to propel the discussion forward... they are a genetic mutation variant (leucistic) of the white-tailed deer species that freely interbreed with brown deer. No more, no less.

http://senecawhitedeer.org/white-deer-natural-resources/white-deer-seneca-army-depot/

You're both awarded a half point! wink
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#1478709 --- 11/18/15 01:52 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Timbo]
Oldgzr Offline
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Thanks for being the referee Timbo. I will gladly take the half point. smile I guess I should have used the word moderator instead of referee. lol

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#1478712 --- 11/18/15 02:09 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Oldgzr]
Timbo Offline
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Gameshow Host, perhaps?
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#1478728 --- 11/18/15 09:32 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
all seeing eye Offline
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As of a few minutes ago, the petition had 54,610 signatures. Can you imagine the numbers if the deer are not included in the plan moving forward.

And PS, the current area zoned conservation recreation is more than 1000 acres. Let's give all that is currently zoned to the deer.


[i][/i]
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Reminder to sign the petition:


Save the deer, birds and wildlife petition
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#1478735 --- 11/19/15 05:21 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: ]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
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really all you have to do is get together with the DEC
www.dec.ny.gov/animals/6965.
More about New York's Deer Management Program:
Landowner's Guide for Managing Deer - Informs landowners about permit options for contolling deer numbers on their property.
Deer Management Assistance Program - DMAP enables biologists to help landowners and resource managers implement site specific deer management on their lands.
Citizen Task Forces on Deer - CTFs have been part of a major effort to involve New Yorkers in the process of determining appropriate deer population sizes
Citizen Task Force Results - Table outlining CTF recommendations for each Wildlife Management Unit
2009 Public Meetings on Deer Management - DEC held a series of meetings across the state in 2009 to review the deer management program and seek input from hunters and non-hunters about future changes.
Get a law passed that they can't be shot and let them free.


Edited by Hello_Governer (11/19/15 07:55 AM)
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#1478757 --- 11/19/15 08:07 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: ]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
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WRONG

you'd be wasting your time dealing with the politicians, they can't wait to get their hands on the money.

The DEC is controlled by the environmentalists down state, if you said mosquitos are endangered they would want to protect them. crazy
I wouldn't waste the paper giving the petition to the County grin
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#1478845 --- 11/22/15 05:05 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Hello_Governer Offline
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These deer have had nearly 11,000 acres to roam around in, now they want to buy 3,000 acres to set aside for them. Do they intend to put up another fence around the 3,000 acres ? How will they know if all the white deer are inside the smaller area ? What will the DEC have to say about this, other than the fact that the deer can jump an 8 foot fence. I can see it now, people protesting to let the deer free, like other captive wild animals. Remember "FREE WILLY" ?
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#1478859 --- 11/22/15 09:39 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
These deer have had nearly 11,000 acres to roam around in, now they want to buy 3,000 acres to set aside for them. Do they intend to put up another fence around the 3,000 acres ? How will they know if all the white deer are inside the smaller area ?
Obviously they would have to put a fence around those 3,000 acres. Obviously not all current white deer would be inside that area. But I think it would work to maintain a current white deer presence which would be a great benefit to the county in tourism, etc.
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#1478898 --- 11/23/15 08:43 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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I don't recall anyone saying that they have the DEC's approval or that the State won't take it over for you. The Federal Government gives states money for this kind of thing, has anyone approached the Great State of New York ? What the Army did in the 40's, before the DEC, may not be legal today. grin
the DEC has been managing the deer at the depot for decades crazy


Edited by Hello_Governer (11/23/15 08:45 AM)
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#1478912 --- 11/23/15 11:41 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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From today's fL Times:

By DAVID L. SHAW
dshaw@fltimes.com

ROMULUS — Hunters may be taking aim at white deer that have escaped from their protected habitat at the former Seneca Army Depot because of a large opening in the fence along Route 96A. That hole was caused by a vehicle crashing into the 8-foot-high chain link fence last February. Depot officials installed orange plastic fencing in May to partially close the gap, but people have seen white deer outside the fence in recent weeks.

That has raised concerns among those wishing to see the white deer herd preserved and made part of an eco-tourism operation on about 3,000acres of the 10,600-acre former depot, which closed in 2002. Carol Doolittle of Trumansburg pointed out Friday that if white and brown deer leave the depot grounds through the fence, they could be targets for hunters.

“When they are exterminated, this tourist magnet for the Finger Lakes will be done forever and won’t bring tourists to see this one-of-a-kind-in-the-world herd,” Doolittle said.
“Having them here as a tourism draw benefits B&Bs, eateries, gas stations, wineries, cideries, distilleries and brings
revenue to upstate New York.”

She asked anyone who cares about preserving the white deer to call U.S. senators Charles Schumer and Kristin Gillibrand and Rep. Tom Reed. Depot site manager Stephen Absolom could not be reached for comment. The regular deer hunting season began Saturday and runs through Dec 13.


Edited by kyle585 (11/23/15 11:51 AM)
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#1478913 --- 11/23/15 12:15 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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but the white deer have been outside the fence for over 40 years and according to the DEC they can jump an 8 foot fence. crazy
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#1478914 --- 11/23/15 12:56 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
but the white deer have been outside the fence for over 40 years and according to the DEC they can jump an 8 foot fence. crazy
They have been outside the fence for 40 years? Very few. Reports of them outside the fence have always been few and far between. I have heard that only occasionally does one manage to jump the fence.
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#1478915 --- 11/23/15 12:59 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
These deer have had nearly 11,000 acres to roam around in, now they want to buy 3,000 acres to set aside for them.
They never had 11,000 acres to roam around in. When the depot was active there was a large concentration of buildings at both ends of the depot covering many acres where there were no deer.
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#1478916 --- 11/23/15 01:15 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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My mother worked at the depot in the 1950's thru the 1990's you are WRONG, I remember seeing them outside the fence many times. I saw them near the main entrance on the north end and my mother watched them out her office window. grin
At night they would walk right out the main gate.

If you call U.S. senators Charles Schumer and Kristin Gillibrand and Rep. Tom Reed. just don't tell them you are from Seneca County. Tell them you are from Ithaca or something. crazy Wonder why Depot site manager Stephen Absolom could not be reached for comment.


Edited by Hello_Governer (11/23/15 01:20 PM)
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#1478918 --- 11/23/15 01:24 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
My mother worked at the depot in the 1950's thru the 1990's you are WRONG, I remember seeing them outside the fence many times. I saw them near the main entrance on the north end and my mother watched them out her office window. grin At night they would walk right out the main gate.
I don't recall ever hearing of a hunter shooting one outside the depot. I am sure it would of been in the paper if it had happened.
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#1478919 --- 11/23/15 01:26 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
My mother worked at the depot in the 1950's thru the 1990's
She worked at the depot for 40+ years? My My grin That must be a record.


Edited by kyle585 (11/23/15 06:36 PM)
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#1478922 --- 11/23/15 01:29 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
My mother worked at the depot in the 1950's thru the 1990's you are WRONG, I remember seeing them outside the fence many times. I saw them near the main entrance on the north end and my mother watched them out her office window. grin At night they would walk right out the main gate.
She worked nights in an office? Very unusual. Usually only guards and firemen worked nights on a regular basis.
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#1478927 --- 11/23/15 02:03 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Top Dog Offline
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I have heard of some getting out that are found around the Five Points Correctional area entrance. few and far between.

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#1478929 --- 11/23/15 02:26 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Top Dog]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Top Dog
I have heard of some getting out that are found around the Five Points Correctional area entrance. few and far between.
Right few and far between and really on the old depot property. And if this was after Five Points was in existence, the integrity of the old depot fence was already questionable.
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#1478950 --- 11/24/15 09:35 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
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Loc: New York, Seneca
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
My mother worked at the depot in the 1950's thru the 1990's you are WRONG, I remember seeing them outside the fence many times. I saw them near the main entrance on the north end and my mother watched them out her office window. grin At night they would walk right out the main gate.
She worked nights in an office? Very unusual. Usually only guards and firemen worked nights on a regular basis.


DO YOU HAVE TO TWIST EVERYTHING ? I can't be the only person to ever see a deer during the day crazy
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#1478952 --- 11/24/15 09:48 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
but the white deer have been outside the fence for over 40 years and according to the DEC they can jump an 8 foot fence. crazy
They have been outside the fence for 40 years? Very few. Reports of them outside the fence have always been few and far between. I have heard that only occasionally does one manage to jump the fence.


Very few ? just how many do you think there are ?
WELL WHAT YOU'VE HEARD DOESN'T CONCUR WITH WHAT I'VE SEEN grin


Edited by Hello_Governer (11/24/15 10:00 AM)
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#1478953 --- 11/24/15 09:53 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
but the white deer have been outside the fence for over 40 years and according to the DEC they can jump an 8 foot fence. crazy
They have been outside the fence for 40 years? Very few. Reports of them outside the fence have always been few and far between. I have heard that only occasionally does one manage to jump the fence.
WELL WHAT YOU'VE HEARD DOESN'T CONCUR WITH WHAT I'VE SEEN grin
You have actually seen them jump the fence? Wow. I don't suppose you got a picture? grin
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#1478954 --- 11/24/15 09:55 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
My mother worked at the depot in the 1950's thru the 1990's you are WRONG, I remember seeing them outside the fence many times. I saw them near the main entrance on the north end and my mother watched them out her office window. grin At night they would walk right out the main gate.
She worked nights in an office? Very unusual. Usually only guards and firemen worked nights on a regular basis.
DO YOU HAVE TO TWIST EVERYTHING ? I can't be the only person to ever see a deer during the day crazy
I have seen lots of brown deer during the day. You said:
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
At night they would walk right out the main gate.
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#1478956 --- 11/24/15 10:09 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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ever heard of Colonel Wooten ? He used to run the place back in the mid 60's I went to school with his son Mike. And as a matter of fact I have seen a brown deer jump the fence near the old underpass on 96A :-P
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#1478959 --- 11/24/15 11:20 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
but the white deer have been outside the fence for over 40 years and according to the DEC they can jump an 8 foot fence. crazy
White men and white deer can't jump. grin

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105812/


Edited by kyle585 (11/24/15 01:51 PM)
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#1478971 --- 11/24/15 03:41 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Gdog Offline
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Registered: 01/04/04
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Rumor mill says the Indians are gonna try to buy the depot

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#1478972 --- 11/24/15 04:33 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
but the white deer have been outside the fence for over 40 years and according to the DEC they can jump an 8 foot fence. crazy
White men and white deer can't jump. grin

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105812/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ley7Iile9G4

looks more like an 8 foot fence to me grin


Edited by Hello_Governer (11/24/15 04:36 PM)
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#1478974 --- 11/25/15 06:29 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
what CORNELL AND THE DEC have to say about deer

Territory and home range: During the breeding season, or “rut,” males are territorial. Some will defend large areas, while others will be shut out. Males range over a larger area than females; in urban areas, that could be 200 a., while in rural areas, as much as 600 ACRES. The home range of females is usually about 25 acres.
Deer populations can double in size every 2–3 years, if unchecked crazy
Is 3000 acres going to be enough ? I would think NOT cry

hey maybe we could have bar-be-cued White deer fund raisers grin


Edited by Hello_Governer (11/25/15 06:35 AM)
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#1478975 --- 11/25/15 06:44 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Gdog]
Sam the Sham Offline
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Registered: 04/14/00
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Originally Posted By: Gdog
Rumor mill says the Indians are gonna try to buy the depot


Unlikely. Too much of it is outside the claim area and they turned it down as an offer during settlement talks once already.

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#1478977 --- 11/25/15 07:39 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
Deer populations can double in size every 2–3 years, if unchecked crazy
Is 3000 acres going to be enough ? I would think NOT cry
Of course it will. The depot used to have deer hunts in the fall where they took out a certain number of white deer. That will just have to be continued.
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#1478979 --- 11/25/15 09:09 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Like I said, we could have bar-be-cued White deer fund raisers grin

at a ratio of one male (buck) for every 25 females, I want to be a white buck in my next life wink
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#1478980 --- 11/25/15 09:32 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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quote=kyle585 " Of course it will. The depot used to have deer hunts in the fall where they took out a certain number of white deer. That will just have to be continued." [/quote]

But people were against that TOO crazy

ever think that if they weren't limited to 3000 acres they may mulitply and there would be even more white ones ? Maybe we should fence off the whole county and iron off all the brown ones.
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#1478986 --- 11/25/15 10:20 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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HEY, I've got an idea grin Seneca Meadows has about 2000 acres, how about fencing that in and relocating some white deer there and at Montezuma crazy

or we could get Cornell to play with their genes and come up with some red and blue ones crazy


Edited by Hello_Governer (11/25/15 10:43 AM)
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#1479402 --- 12/06/15 08:29 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
WilllOWisp Offline
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Gladly donated and will be holding an auction for them soon.
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#1480589 --- 01/10/16 10:09 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: WilllOWisp]
scwoodchuck Offline
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TODAY page 1 section C, Finger Lakes Times

It looks like one of your precious white deer got out of the fence. Looks like it is doing quite well without your protection.

ALL YOU REALLY NEED IS A LAW THAT THEY CAN'T BE HUNTED
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#1480699 --- 01/14/16 07:44 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
birdwatcher123 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
but the white deer have been outside the fence for over 40 years and according to the DEC they can jump an 8 foot fence. crazy


Yes they can very easily.

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#1480722 --- 01/15/16 12:55 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: birdwatcher123]
Hello_Governer Offline
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A while ago I asked if anybody has asked the DEC if all these plans are ok. The State owns those deer not Seneca County or the IDA. Just because a wild animal is on your property doesn't give you any right to claim them or try to contain them.
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#1480753 --- 01/17/16 09:06 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: scwoodchuck]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Did you see todays paper ? What I didn't like about the article was the fact that now everyone knows a dead white deer is worth up to $3,000.00. The white deer did fine for decades when everybody left them alone, now the people who say they are trying to save them have made them a TARGET for every redneck in the state. crazy
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#1480759 --- 01/17/16 04:39 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
SilverFox Offline
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I read the article with complete disgust. So sorry for the tragic lost of the young lady's dog in such a brutal way.

I hope the morons who have been placing these horrible traps are caught and punished to the fullest extent of the law. First the traps are inhumane, second they are illegal, third they are stealing a rare natural resource that belongs to all of us. I sincerely hope Karma catches up with them soon.
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#1480764 --- 01/18/16 09:56 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: SilverFox]
DR. D Offline
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A few of the traps had the persons name on them who owned them, so I am thinking someone is gonna get a visit from the DEC at some point.

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#1480766 --- 01/18/16 11:39 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: DR. D]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Originally Posted By: DR. D
A few of the traps had the persons name on them who owned them, so I am thinking someone is gonna get a visit from the DEC at some point.


unless they were working for the DEC, trying to get the coyote population down
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#1480767 --- 01/18/16 11:42 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: scwoodchuck]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Originally Posted By: DR. D
A few of the traps had the persons name on them who owned them, so I am thinking someone is gonna get a visit from the DEC at some point.
unless they were working for the DEC, trying to get the coyote population down
With traps that are illegal in New York State? Fat chance.
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#1480771 --- 01/18/16 03:56 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
scwoodchuck Offline
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did you forget WHO'S IN CHARGE ?
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#1480784 --- 01/19/16 06:11 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Top Dog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 1999
Loc: Lap Dog
.....and the name on the traps is?

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#1480785 --- 01/19/16 09:30 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
birdwatcher123 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/13
Posts: 36
Loc: midwest
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
Like I said, we could have bar-be-cued White deer fund raisers grin

at a ratio of one male (buck) for every 25 females, I want to be a white buck in my next life wink


Use the brown ones for the meat it's all the same color/taste.

Save the white ones.

OBTW

"at a ratio of one male (buck) for every 25 females, I want to be a white buck in my next life ;)"

God son you'd be dead for sure!LOL

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#1480786 --- 01/19/16 09:37 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
birdwatcher123 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/13
Posts: 36
Loc: midwest
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
A while ago I asked if anybody has asked the DEC if all these plans are ok. The State owns those deer not Seneca County or the IDA. Just because a wild animal is on your property doesn't give you any right to claim them or try to contain them.



WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it is still uncle Sam's. DOD owns it yet
has never been fully turned over. Clean up was going to take years to be clean. Then certified by some one. They are just waiting for a scape goat to come around and sign the final release papers. The state does use the air strip and rifle range. I just do not think the states owns any land yet.JMO



Edited by birdwatcher123 (01/19/16 09:41 PM)

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#1480796 --- 01/20/16 08:42 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: birdwatcher123]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
who's talking about the depot ? I was only saying that any future plans for the white deer need to be OKed by the DEC.

but since you brought it up, would you eat anything grown there sick


Edited by Hello_Governer (01/20/16 09:32 AM)
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#1480838 --- 01/21/16 07:06 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Top Dog]
flbuldog Offline
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Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 2445
Loc: USA
"80-year-old James W. Brown and 53-year-old Clint K. Moosman, both of Seneca Falls, are both charged with multiple counts of setting body-gripping traps larger than six inches and failing to identify traps. We're told the maximum penalty for each ticket is a $250 fine and/or 15 days in jail.

DEC officers say an eight-year-old Yellow Lab was killed in one of the traps while it was being walked by its owner near the fence of the depot. The owner told the Messenger Post the the dog "let out a yelp" and was trapped by the neck."

Another Complete Fail





Edited by flbuldog (01/21/16 07:44 AM)
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#1480856 --- 01/21/16 12:23 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
loyal Offline
Member

Registered: 07/01/10
Posts: 32
Loc: NY
Besides a fine/jail term (which is minimal)
, I hope they have to pay for fence repairs, dog replacement and owner agony, police time/expense.

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#1480862 --- 01/21/16 04:02 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: loyal]
SilverFox Offline
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Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 6483
Loc: Waterloo
Wonder if a civil suit could be filed for the loss of a companion animal? mad
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#1480865 --- 01/21/16 06:13 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: SilverFox]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
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Loc: Seneca Lake
Unfortunately, animals are treated as property under the law.

But the owner might be able to get the new sheriff to bring charges of animal cruelty:

§ 353. Overdriving, torturing and injuring animals; failure to provide proper sustenance. A person who overdrives, overloads, tortures or cruelly beats or unjustifiably injures, maims, mutilates or kills any animal, whether wild or tame, and whether belonging to himself or to another, or deprives any animal of necessary sustenance, food or drink, or neglects or refuses to furnish it such sustenance or drink, or causes, procures or permits any animal to be overdriven, overloaded, tortured, cruelly beaten, or unjustifiably injured, maimed, mutilated or killed, or to be deprived of necessary food or drink, or who wilfully sets on foot, instigates, engages in, or in any way furthers any act of cruelty to any animal, or any act tending to produce such cruelty, is guilty of a class A misdemeanor and for purposes of paragraph (b) of subdivision one of section 160.10 of the criminal procedure law, shall be treated as a misdemeanor defined in the penal law.

It's not much, but it is a lot more than some fines.

Anyone know these dudes?
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#1480866 --- 01/21/16 06:54 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Top Dog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 1999
Loc: Lap Dog
Town of Seneca Falls Nuisance Animal Control Officer Clint Moosman. Have fun with that my friends.

What were the 12 tickets issued to the men? Is this tresspassing?

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#1480867 --- 01/21/16 07:18 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Top Dog]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2298
Loc: Seneca Lake
Actually, Clint is licensed by DEC as a nuisance animal control operator.

He should lose his license.

Part of the training about the use of lethal traps says:

As with all lethal techniques, care is needed to make sure that only the intended nuisance animals are caught. Body-gripping traps are often set in front of the animal's entrance hole because the animal must pass through the jaws of the trap to be captured. This way, only an animal entering or leaving the hole will be caught.

Use extra caution if you're setting a body-gripping trap on the ground, because of the risk to people, pets, and other wildlife.
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#1480869 --- 01/21/16 07:26 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: scwoodchuck]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 2048
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Originally Posted By: DR. D
A few of the traps had the persons name on them who owned them, so I am thinking someone is gonna get a visit from the DEC at some point.


unless they were working for the DEC, trying to get the coyote population down

POSTED MONDAY
wink
we don't know what we don't know, I guess we'll have to wait and see
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#1480872 --- 01/21/16 07:48 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Top Dog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 1999
Loc: Lap Dog
Are we trying to get the coyote population down?

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#1480873 --- 01/21/16 09:04 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Here's Johnny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 850
Loc: New York
So why were the traps set? Stupid question?

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#1480875 --- 01/21/16 09:30 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Here's Johnny]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2298
Loc: Seneca Lake
I think the answer may be here:

Animal Pelts on Ebay
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#1480878 --- 01/22/16 04:58 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Top Dog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 1999
Loc: Lap Dog
Have we heard from the Seneca White Deer people?

They should comment.

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#1480882 --- 01/22/16 07:45 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Top Dog]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2298
Loc: Seneca Lake
"Dennis Money, a Canandaigua resident, is president of Seneca White Deer, the nonprofit working to preserve the former depot as a historic site and home of the unique herd of white deer. Seneca White Deer is submitting a business plan backed up by money it is raising to buy the property.

“I think the trapping issue is just the tip of the iceberg,” Money said in an email, referring to what may be going on at the depot. “To my knowledge the IDA never checked on whether the Army personnel were doing their jobs."

Money mentioned two incidents in which cars went through the fence on the west side of the depot and a temporary flimsy orange fence was put up. Many weeks later due to the public outcry, the two incidents were resolved with permanent fencing. “It was the public, not the IDA, who forced these issues to be resolved,” Money said."

MPN Illegal Body Gripping Traps Used
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#1480884 --- 01/22/16 08:51 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
If the deer can jump the fence what does a hole in the fence matter ? All we really need is a stiff fine for taking a white deer, say $10,000.
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#1480893 --- 01/22/16 01:15 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Top Dog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 1999
Loc: Lap Dog
The hole might serve as an entrance for coyote, who will feast on white deer.

I wonder what he means by "tip of the iceberg"?

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#1481004 --- 01/25/16 01:36 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Top Dog]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
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Loc: New York, Seneca
I'm sure if a coyote wants to get in, it could just dig under the fence, besides the front gate is wide open.
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#1481083 --- 01/27/16 08:10 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
all seeing eye Offline
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Loc: Seneca Lake
Committee Passes Resolution for County to Acquire Seneca Army Depot

1/27/2016 1:50:09 AM
By Fred von Wiegen

Finger Lakes Daily News

Seneca County is in the running to acquire the remaining 7,000 acres of the Seneca Army Depot. The county's Planning, Development, Agriculture and Tourism Committee met Tuesday night and passed a resolution in favor of acquiring the property. The full board is expected to take up the measure in two weeks. According to Committee Chairman Stephen Churchill, the county would preserve the herd of 200 rare white deer that live within the confines of the abandoned mititary enclosure and he expects the county would run bus tours to bring tourists to the site.

The Seneca County Industrial Development Agency is looking for buyers to bid on the property and have set a deadline of February 29 for submission of bids. Churchill believes the IDA would be agreeable to transferring the depot to the county. It's unclear how the county would pay for the property, but Churchill believes it would not come out of the pockets of Seneca County taxpayers. Meanwhile, Seneca White Deer, a not-for-profit group, is actively seeking financial backers to acquire the depot and transform it into an eco-tourism attraction with the emphasis on preserving the white deer population.

Churchill told CNY Central that he wants the full board to vote on the resolution to acquire the site before the end of February -- in advance of the IDA's deadline to accept purchase bids.

#SenecaCounty
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#1481084 --- 01/27/16 08:53 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
" It's unclear how the county would pay for the property, but Churchill believes it would not come out of the pockets of Seneca County taxpayers."

spoken like a true democrat, I would like to know how he thinks he can manage that. Just the fact that the property stays off the tax rolls costs tax payers money.
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#1481111 --- 01/27/16 07:00 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Top Dog]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 2048
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: Top Dog
Are we trying to get the coyote population down?

http://www.whec.com/news/stories/S3788777.shtml?cat=565#.VU0H7qfhBi4.facebook
coyote warning in Seneca County
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#1481158 --- 01/28/16 08:39 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: ]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 2048
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
but a republican didn't make that stupid statement
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#1481161 --- 01/28/16 09:30 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: scwoodchuck]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
but a republican didn't make that stupid statement
A republican made this stupid statement: IRAQ has WMD's. And we are all still paying heavily for that stupid statement.
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#1481164 --- 01/28/16 10:40 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
but a republican didn't make that stupid statement
A republican made this stupid statement: IRAQ has WMD's. And we are all still paying heavily for that stupid statement.

AND A DEMOCRAT PULLED US OUT OF IRAQ AND WE HAVE AN EVEN BIGGER MESS
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#1481168 --- 01/28/16 12:14 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
but a republican didn't make that stupid statement
A republican made this stupid statement: IRAQ has WMD's. And we are all still paying heavily for that stupid statement.

AND A DEMOCRAT PULLED US OUT OF IRAQ AND WE HAVE AN EVEN BIGGER MESS
He pulled us out 10 years later. How long should we have stayed?
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#1481275 --- 01/30/16 11:51 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
[kyle/quote]He pulled us out 10 years later. How long should we have stayed? [/quote]

we may ended up going back so you tell me
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#1481278 --- 01/30/16 01:05 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
Originally Posted By: kyle
He pulled us out 10 years later. How long should we have stayed?
we may ended up going back so you tell me
Oh maybe 50-100 years should do it. or until Donald Trump fixes everything. grin
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#1481510 --- 02/07/16 02:52 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
getting back to the deer,

Since we need to get the farmers involved in protecting Seneca Lake by creating buffer zones to control run-off maybe we should incorporate the two. Get farmers to set aside sensitive areas near creeks and streams and create a more suitable habitat for deer. By allowing more land to become wild again would protect both the deer and the lake. Farmers could then control who hunts on their land and what game is taken. Since a mature buck has a range of up to 25 square miles and will drive out smaller bucks the white genes could be spread over a much bigger area.
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#1481571 --- 02/10/16 04:59 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Happy Birthday ibepokenmore Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 487
Loc: waterloo
The white deer are as good as gone. There is money to be had there and that signs all the animals living there death warrants. But then that is the way of the world.
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#1481573 --- 02/10/16 05:43 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: ibepokenmore]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 2048
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
that's not necessarily true, public support will find a way. I can't figure out why anyone would think the County government should be involved anyway, I mean, they screw up everything else they do. The trapping incident should tell you something, someone connected thought he could get away with breaking the law. I think the Gov. is on to something that WILL WORK. Can you imagine how the guy trapping feels right now ? Bet he is scared to death to show his face in public.

Did anyone stop to think that the fence had little to do with the white deer being here in the first place ? They are confined between two natural barriers, two huge lakes. The fact that there are white deer in many other states, should tell you something.


Edited by scwoodchuck (02/10/16 06:05 AM)
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#1481999 --- 02/19/16 11:36 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2298
Loc: Seneca Lake
Concern Continues Regarding Health And Size of White Deer Herd At Depot

2/18/2016 11:46:16 AM
By Joe Nittler

While the Town of Varick and Seneca White Deer, Inc. have announced an informal handshake deal to develop a potential white deer preserve at the former Seneca Army Depot, there is great concern about the health and size of the herd. White Deer President Dennis Money flew over the property a couple weeks back and counted no more than 80 white deer. That's down for an estimated 200 from just 8 years ago. Money says with proper management, those numbers can grow again.

Money says they would partner with a group called the Quality Deer Management Association and the Seneca County Federation of Sportsmen to do habitat analysis and development.


FROM:

Finger Lakes Daily News

This is the group that Seneca White Deer and the Seneca County Federation of Sportsmen plan to partner with to manage the herd:

The Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA) is a non-profit wildlife conservation organization dedicated to ensuring the future of white-tailed deer, wildlife habitat and our hunting heritage.

Founded in 1988, the QDMA has more than 60,000 members in all 50 states and several foreign countries. Since the beginning, QDMA has worked to educate its members and all deer hunters about the benefits of the Quality Deer Management (QDM) philosophy. This effort – aided by the support of numerous member-volunteers, corporate sponsors, and other QDM advocates – has rapidly increased awareness and implementation of QDM throughout North America, resulting in healthier, more balanced deer populations and more rewarding hunting experiences. As it grew in membership and influence, QDMA also began working to secure a sustainable future for wild white-tailed deer through practical research and by advocating for wise policy and regulation that will protect our hunting heritage. Additionally, QDMA works to attract, assist, educate and guide young and new hunters to ensure they become tomorrow's stewards of whitetails and all wildlife.

QDMA website


Edited by all seeing eye (02/19/16 12:03 PM)
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#1482015 --- 02/19/16 03:34 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
I know someone who used to fly around and he claims there are lots of white deer OUTSIDE the depot crazy
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#1482023 --- 02/19/16 08:12 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
all seeing eye Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2298
Loc: Seneca Lake
Sounds like the plan is a trophy hunt, behind the new publicly funded fence.
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#1482031 --- 02/19/16 10:49 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Devil's Advocate Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 231
Loc: 6th Circle of Hell
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Sounds like the plan is a trophy hunt, behind the new publicly funded fence.

Explain how keeping deer isolated and inbred to maintain a purely physical appearance is different than a puppy mill, please.

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#1482032 --- 02/20/16 07:02 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Devil's Advocate]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2298
Loc: Seneca Lake
Not sure of your point. Are you saying that there should NOT be a wildlife park?

Originally Posted By: Devil's Advocate
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Sounds like the plan is a trophy hunt, behind the new publicly funded fence.

Explain how keeping deer isolated and inbred to maintain a purely physical appearance is different than a puppy mill, please.
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Harry S. Truman

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#1482036 --- 02/20/16 07:41 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Devil's Advocate Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 231
Loc: 6th Circle of Hell
Quote:
Not sure of your point. Are you saying that there should NOT be a wildlife park?


What ethically run wildlife park is based on taking a herd of animals with a recessive gene and repeatedly inbreeding it to maintain that recessive gene?

And how is that different than mill practices?

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#1482040 --- 02/20/16 08:49 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Devil's Advocate]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2298
Loc: Seneca Lake
Again, I am not sure of your point. What are you saying should be done with the white deer, which have no protective coloration and would not be able to survive long in the wild?



Originally Posted By: Devil's Advocate
Quote:
Not sure of your point. Are you saying that there should NOT be a wildlife park?


What ethically run wildlife park is based on taking a herd of animals with a recessive gene and repeatedly inbreeding it to maintain that recessive gene?

And how is that different than mill practices?
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#1482041 --- 02/20/16 09:11 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 2048
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<!-- -->
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Again, I am not sure of your point. What are you saying should be done with the white deer, which have no protective coloration and would not be able to survive long in the wild?
The army did not do anything special to protect the deer. The deer have done just fine both inside and outside the fence. To fence them in on 3000 acres will do more HARM than good.
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#1482042 --- 02/20/16 09:15 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 2048
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
getting back to the deer,

Since we need to get the farmers involved in protecting Seneca Lake by creating buffer zones to control run-off maybe we should incorporate the two. Get farmers to set aside sensitive areas near creeks and streams and create a more suitable habitat for deer. By allowing more land to become wild again would protect both the deer and the lake. Farmers could then control who hunts on their land and what game is taken. Since a mature buck has a range of up to 25 square miles and will drive out smaller bucks the white genes could be spread over a much bigger area.
this is NOT about protecting the white deer, it's about controling the deer to make a BUCK.


Edited by scwoodchuck (02/20/16 09:18 AM)
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#1482048 --- 02/20/16 10:31 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Hot Burrito Offline
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Registered: 04/17/00
Posts: 767
Loc: Tiajuna Flats
Quote:
Again, I am not sure of your point. What are you saying should be done with the white deer, which have no protective coloration and would not be able to survive long in the wild?

Why do you want to keep breeding wild animals that can't survive in the wild?

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#1482049 --- 02/20/16 10:42 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: scwoodchuck]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
<!-- -->
Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Again, I am not sure of your point. What are you saying should be done with the white deer, which have no protective coloration and would not be able to survive long in the wild?
The army did not do anything special to protect the deer. The deer have done just fine both inside and outside the fence. To fence them in on 3000 acres will do more HARM than good.
They certainly did. I have heard of every few white deer outside the depot fence. And the Army planted grain and corn for them to eat. As well as put out salt licks for them.
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#1482050 --- 02/20/16 10:43 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hot Burrito]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
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Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
Quote:
Again, I am not sure of your point. What are you saying should be done with the white deer, which have no protective coloration and would not be able to survive long in the wild?
Why do you want to keep breeding wild animals that can't survive in the wild?
For their great beauty enjoyed by many and the tourists it will draw.
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#1482051 --- 02/20/16 10:46 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
I know someone who used to fly around and he claims there are lots of white deer OUTSIDE the depot crazy
I don't believe that for a minute. I have hardly ever heard of one outside the fence. In the fall there are often pics in the paper of hunters with the deer they shot. If someone shoot a white outside the depot it would certainly have been in the paper. I have never seen it.
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#1482052 --- 02/20/16 11:18 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
Did you see todays paper ? What I didn't like about the article was the fact that now everyone knows a dead white deer is worth up to $3,000.00.
So if someone shoots one outside the depot it will be big news and probably on the front page of the paper. In addition to having an area on the depot for them I would like to see a law against shooting them outside the depot.
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#1482053 --- 02/20/16 11:42 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
scwoodchuck Offline
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[/quote]The army did not do anything special to protect the deer. The deer have done just fine both inside and outside the fence. To fence them in on 3000 acres will do more HARM than good. [/quote]They certainly did. I have heard of every few white deer outside the depot fence. And the Army planted grain and corn for them to eat. As well as put out salt licks for them.[/quote]

AH, that's called "baiting" and it's illegal to feed deer in New York State, but they also shot the deer. Go to Hessney's auction some time there are white deer mounts for sale sometimes. Why don't they just build a petting zoo ?
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#1482054 --- 02/20/16 11:51 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
I know someone who used to fly around and he claims there are lots of white deer OUTSIDE the depot crazy
I don't believe that for a minute. I have hardly ever heard of one outside the fence.

I have gone by the depot many times since 1957 and I have seen, with my own eyes, white deer outside the depot fence. crazy

there were white deer running around these parts long before there were white men running around these parts grin


Edited by scwoodchuck (02/20/16 11:57 AM)
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#1482056 --- 02/20/16 12:07 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Devil's Advocate Offline
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Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
Quote:
Again, I am not sure of your point. What are you saying should be done with the white deer, which have no protective coloration and would not be able to survive long in the wild?
Why do you want to keep breeding wild animals that can't survive in the wild?
For their great beauty enjoyed by many and the tourists it will draw.


Inbreeding animals for traits that decrease their chance of survival/health for profit. Sounds exactly like a puppy mill or factory farming.

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#1482063 --- 02/20/16 03:16 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Devil's Advocate]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Devil's Advocate
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
Quote:
Again, I am not sure of your point. What are you saying should be done with the white deer, which have no protective coloration and would not be able to survive long in the wild?
Why do you want to keep breeding wild animals that can't survive in the wild?
For their great beauty enjoyed by many and the tourists it will draw.
Inbreeding animals for traits that decrease their chance of survival/health for profit. Sounds exactly like a puppy mill or factory farming.
There is absolutely no comparison between 3,000 acres of forest and a poor pregnant female dog having her umpteenth litter of puppies in a cage where she can't even turn around! On the depot there are brown deer as well as white deer and the experts say they often interbreed.
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#1482064 --- 02/20/16 03:33 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Hot Burrito Offline
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Without contained white inbreeding won't the brown deer eventually overrun the recessive white gene?

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#1482065 --- 02/20/16 03:44 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hot Burrito]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
Without contained white inbreeding won't the brown deer eventually overrun the recessive white gene?
I don't think so since the depot has had these brown and white deer fenced in together for 60 years and it hasn't happened yet. I believe brown deer are a majority on the depot and have been since the fence was put up in the 1940's. This is a very unusual situation and should be allowed to continue for it uniqueness.
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#1482067 --- 02/20/16 04:29 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
Without contained white inbreeding won't the brown deer eventually overrun the recessive white gene?
I don't think so since the depot has had these brown and white deer fenced in together for 60 years and it hasn't happened yet. I believe brown deer are a majority on the depot and have been since the fence was put up in the 1940's. This is a very unusual situation and should be allowed to continue for it uniqueness.

BUT, the minute you limit them to 3000acres, rather than 10,000 PLUS acres, you have screwed up everything laugh
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#1482069 --- 02/20/16 04:46 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
Without contained white inbreeding won't the brown deer eventually overrun the recessive white gene?
I don't think so since the depot has had these brown and white deer fenced in together for 60 years and it hasn't happened yet. I believe brown deer are a majority on the depot and have been since the fence was put up in the 1940's. This is a very unusual situation and should be allowed to continue for it uniqueness.

you keep ignoring the fact that the deer have NEVER been confined by the fence. The first time I saw a white deer outside the fence was in 1957 at the entrance where Hillside is now. I have watched them as they walked right past the guard shack and out the gate and on down the road.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/ctguide07.pdf


Edited by scwoodchuck (02/20/16 04:49 PM)
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#1482071 --- 02/20/16 04:58 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hot Burrito]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
Without contained white inbreeding won't the brown deer eventually overrun the recessive white gene?
most likely, a mature buck has a range of up to 16,000 acres and will drive away younger bucks, sometimes even killing them. One brown buck could make a mess of your eco-park crazy

whatever you do, don't read this
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/ctguide07.pdf

not you personally hot burrito


Edited by scwoodchuck (02/20/16 05:05 PM)
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#1482074 --- 02/20/16 05:59 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
scwoodchuck Offline
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dogs ain't deer
"There is absolutely no comparison between 3,000 acres of forest and a poor pregnant female dog having her umpteenth litter of puppies in a cage where she can't even turn around"
Social System: White-tailed deer exhibit an elaborate social pattern. During the warm months of the year, the basic social unit consists of related females, their fawns and yearlings, and adult males all of which have contiguous or overlapping home ranges. In autumn, yearling males disperse up to 25 miles (average 5 miles) to establish permanent ranges with a different social unit.

The average size of the summer home range is 536 acres for both sexes, but during the rut, expands to 853 acres for males. White-tailed deer are polygamous. Each adult male competes with other males for access to females, and each male may exclude neighboring males from parts of its home range in the breeding season. All members of a social unit congregate at the same traditional winter range or yard where the home range size averages 338 acres per individual.That's 10 deer on your 3,000 acres. Fawns accompany their mother to the winter ranges. Frequently, members of several social units use the same wintering area. Tradition largely determines the use of a particular yard. Thus, social units return to the same yard from one year to the next, sometimes passing by coniferous cover that appears to offer similar winter habitat. Social hierarchies are evident when deer congregate in herds, with rank determined by sex, age, and size. The largest males are dominant, followed in rank by adult females. Yearlings and fawns are subordinate to all others. Hierarchies determine access to food, especially when browse is limited. Densities of white-tailed deer for winter yards may approach or exceed 100-125 individuals per square mile, but are 4-25 deer per square mile for summer 1 square mile is 640 acres
3000 acres may only support 18 deer and at 25 deer per sq. mile it would support 115 under perfect conditions. That's with 1 to 3 mature buck whistle


Edited by scwoodchuck (02/20/16 06:07 PM)
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#1482078 --- 02/20/16 07:15 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
STL9370 Offline
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The white recessive gene exits in the wild Whitetail population all over NYS and beyond. But it rarely appears because of the genetic diversity of the wild Whitetail. Because of the fences the depot herd lacks genetic diversity and so the recessive combination appears more often. Thus inbreeding results. Inbreeding at a high enough percentage causes each succeeding generation to be smaller, less healthy, less fertile, & less intelligent. Google it or consult some research geneticists. To maintain a captive closed gene pool is the cruelest way for the county to handle this whole situation.

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#1482079 --- 02/20/16 07:20 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: STL9370]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: STL9370
Inbreeding at a high enough percentage causes each succeeding generation to be smaller, less healthy, less fertile, & less intelligent.
How many generations has their been since the 1940's? And no unhealthy generations have been noted until now? Seems mighty strange.
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#1482080 --- 02/20/16 07:36 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
STL9370 Offline
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Next time you drive by the depot please notice how small, thin, & sickly the deer inside the fence look compared to deer outside the fence. Also you have no way to determine how many deer inside the fence die of genetic diseases and poor health.

Let them go and assimilate into the wild outside of the fence. They won't disappear just get more rare.

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#1482081 --- 02/20/16 08:27 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: STL9370]
Here's Johnny Offline
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Registered: 11/14/10
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Originally Posted By: STL9370
Next time you drive by the depot please notice how small, thin, & sickly the deer inside the fence look compared to deer outside the fence. Also you have no way to determine how many deer inside the fence die of genetic diseases and poor health.

Let them go and assimilate into the wild outside of the fence. They won't disappear just get more rare.


They do look sickly, looking more like mutant goats than deer.


Edited by Here's Johnny (02/20/16 10:07 PM)

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#1482084 --- 02/20/16 10:26 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: STL9370
Inbreeding at a high enough percentage causes each succeeding generation to be smaller, less healthy, less fertile, & less intelligent.
How many generations has their been since the 1940's? And no unhealthy generations have been noted until now? Seems mighty strange.

don't be too sure about that, I have see some really weird looking deer with some really messed up antlers crazy
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#1482087 --- 02/21/16 08:35 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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Loc: Somewhere out there
Finger Lakes Times today page 1D

QUOTE OF THE WEEK

“This is a unique opportunity for Seneca County to stand apart from other areas in the world…..as only the Finger Lakes has the white deer:”

----Carol and Jim Doolittle, winery owners and advocates for an eco-tourism park.
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#1482089 --- 02/21/16 09:08 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hot Burrito Offline
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Originally Posted By: kyle585
Finger Lakes Times today page 1D

QUOTE OF THE WEEK

“This is a unique opportunity for Seneca County to stand apart from other areas in the world…..as only the Finger Lakes has the white deer:”

----Carol and Jim Doolittle, winery owners and advocates for an eco-tourism park.



Since other places have white deer doesn't that disqualify their opinion as ill informed?

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#1482100 --- 02/21/16 11:28 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hot Burrito]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Finger Lakes Times today page 1D

QUOTE OF THE WEEK

“This is a unique opportunity for Seneca County to stand apart from other areas in the world…..as only the Finger Lakes has the white deer:”

----Carol and Jim Doolittle, winery owners and advocates for an eco-tourism park.
Since other places have white deer doesn't that disqualify their opinion as ill informed?

I goggled where are white deer located? I found essentially nothing else except here.

http://senecawhitedeer.org/
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#1482101 --- 02/21/16 11:42 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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http://protectthewhitedeer.com/albino-questions
White deer are ordinary white-tailed deer with an extraordinary color. ... There is a population of white deer near Boulder Junction in north central Wisconsin

crazy

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2014/10/24/albino-deer-hunt-backlash/17804399/
Oct 24, 2014 ... Albino and exotic, all-white deer have been legal to hunt in Michigan since 2008, when the state lifted protection of the creatures, Rudolph said.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/gallery/hunting/2012/10/deer-different-color
Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Tennessee and Wisconsin prohibit killing albino deer and Iowa goes so far as to protect deer that are 50 percent or more white


Edited by Hello_Governer (02/21/16 11:51 AM)
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#1482102 --- 02/21/16 12:13 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Deer with aberrant color phases are not uncommon in Alabama. A pure white (albino) or black (melanistic) deer is indeed rare. However, harvests of piebald deer are fairly common throughout Alabama. Piebald deer are characterized by having an almost all-white coat with some brown splotches present.
http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/news/weirdwhitetails_wt_1201melanistic/
Sep 22, 2010 ... But as unusual as it is to see a whitetail that's far too light in color, it's even ... The odd “black” deer has shown up here and there, from the East ...

DAMN, just when you think you have something real special someone comes up with a BLACK deer that's even more special
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#1482410 --- 02/28/16 07:19 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
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There are nine Letters to the Editor in the FL Times today. They are all long and they all support protecting the white deer.
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#1482414 --- 02/28/16 07:47 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Originally Posted By: kyle585
There are nine Letters to the Editor in the FL Times today. They are all long and they all support protecting the white deer.
Go back and read the letters again. One person said "Round up deer and donate them to zoos." Another said " wild deer take care of themselves". 2 think the coyotes will get them.
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#1482425 --- 02/28/16 09:44 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
all seeing eye Offline
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Only three letters are in complete support of the Seneca White Deer and Varick plan, and two of them are from current or former members of the Seneca White Deer Board. They should have identified themselves.

And one mischaracterizes one of the petitions. The petition with 70,000 signatures does not say make the land public. It says that the IDA should ensure that the reuse plan should include protection of the wildlife and birds at the depot by creating a conservation area.

Whatever happens, the "winning" proposal must have a business plan that provides for sustainable protection and PROFESSIONAL management of the herd and wildlife.

Originally Posted By: kyle585
There are nine Letters to the Editor in the FL Times today. They are all long and they all support protecting the white deer.
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#1482427 --- 02/28/16 10:14 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
kyle585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: all seeing eye
Only three letters are in complete support of the Seneca White Deer and Varick plan, and two of them are from current or former members of the Seneca White Deer Board. They should have identified themselves.

Originally Posted By: kyle585
There are nine Letters to the Editor in the FL Times today. They are all long and they all support protecting the white deer.
Oh darn I was doing a Donald Trump and got caught. grin
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#1482431 --- 02/28/16 12:48 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Since the Army is done with the property the DEC will protect the wetlands and other sensitive wildlife habitat.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/5133.html
In New York, wetlands are regulated at the state and federal level, and in ... The law requires DEC and APA to map those wetlands that are protected by the Act.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/5124.html
The Freshwater Wetlands Act (Article 24 of the Environmental Conservation Law) .... features found on an official NYS DEC Article 24 Freshwater Wetlands map.

There are 122 wetlands listed totaling 14,879 acres, affecting 600 land owners grin


Edited by Hello_Governer (02/28/16 12:56 PM)
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#1482433 --- 02/28/16 02:41 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
Hello_Governer Offline
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This is cool, lots of information and real nice pictures

http://www.co.seneca.ny.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/SCEnvConsFnlPln2_17_14.pdf
Seneca County - Environmental Conservation Plan 2 ... Map 2. Steep Slopes, Streams, Wetlands. Map 3. Solar PV Potential in the US ..... Both the NYSDEC and

Carbon Sink
According to data produced for the Finger Lakes Regional Sustainability Plan, Seneca County emits about 552,000 metric tons of greenhouse gases each year, but stores 7.7 million metric tons in its forests, waterways, and agricultural lands. Seneca County is what’s known as a “carbon sink”; that is, it absorbs more carbon gases than it releases each year.
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#1482651 --- 03/06/16 04:27 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Todays FL Times; " Varick's depot bid detailed."

Read it carefully, this plan reduces the acreage for the deer from 3,000 acres to 1,000 acres. That's what happens when you have local government involved. crazy
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#1482696 --- 03/07/16 01:20 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
Hello_Governer Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
Todays FL Times; " Varick's depot bid detailed."

Read it carefully, this plan reduces the acreage for the deer from 3,000 acres to 1,000 acres. That's what happens when you have local government involved. crazy

from the FL Times
"According to the bid package, the proposal calls for the Varick Seneca LDC to receive title from the IDA, so as to avoid placing the town in the chain of title to prevent future environmental, archeological or other general liability claims against the town. The town has adopted a zoning code for the Varick portion of the former depot.

The LDC will operate with a board of directors, managing and providing for the economic development of the 3,000 or so acres.

The LDC then plans to transfer to Seneca White Deer Inc. — either through sale, lease or licensed use — about 1,000 acres of land for the conservation and perpetuation of the unique white deer herd. "


1,000 acres ain't gunna work. mad
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#1484210 --- 04/28/16 02:26 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
scwoodchuck Offline
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FL TIMES 4/27
WATERLOO — This spring, female white deer at the former Seneca Army Depot will be giving birth to fawns that are threatened by an influx of coyotes.

On Tuesday, the Seneca County Board of Supervisors decided to do something about it.

First, the Environmental Affairs Committee of the board voted 5-0 to:


Work with the county Industrial Development Agency in taking steps to appeal the state Department of Environmental Conservation decision not to extend the coyote trapping season in an effort to control the predators.

That could include filing an Article 78 petition in State Supreme Court, challenging the DEC decision.

• Allow the county to hire a “houndsman,’’ a person with special training in the use of dogs to harass coyotes into leaving the depot.

• Asking the IDA to secure the depot’s fences to close off access by coyotes and other animals that could harm the deer. Up to $10,000 could be allocated for that purpose.

After the committee meeting, the full board met in special session to take up the issue.

The board voted 13-0 to approve a motion prepared by County Attorney Frank Fisher endorsing the committee’s recommendations. Board member David Kaiser, R-Romulus, was absent.

“We asked the IDA to try and remedy the problem with coyotes at the depot. There’s been no trapping and the fence needs repairs,’’ said Steve Churchill, D-Seneca Falls, committee chairman. “The DEC denied a nuisance permit and didn’t seem interested in the situation. They offered no alternatives.”

SURE, after Churchill insults the DEC repeatedly over gas storage, the landfill and the white deer and other depot matters he wants a favor. The DEC probably has him on their IGNORE LIST grin
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#1484212 --- 04/28/16 06:40 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: scwoodchuck]
all seeing eye Offline
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Loc: Seneca Lake


Yup, let's trap animals all year round. It's so humane.

And let's fix the fences, before we get the dogs to chase the coyotes out.

This makes no sense.

Photo of coyote trapped at the Depot


Edited by all seeing eye (04/28/16 06:43 PM)
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#1484213 --- 04/28/16 07:40 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Hello_Governer Offline
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But aren't you one of the people who wanted the COUNTY to do something ? So they did something stupid, what did you expect. crazy
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#1484214 --- 04/28/16 08:53 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
all seeing eye Offline
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Posts: 2298
Loc: Seneca Lake
You are confusing me with someone else. I do not support the county, the town or Seneca White Deer managing the wildlife, something NONE of them are qualified to do:

My position (February 28, 2016):

Only three letters are in complete support of the Seneca White Deer and Varick plan, and two of them are from current or former members of the Seneca White Deer Board. They should have identified themselves.

And one mischaracterizes one of the petitions. The petition with 70,000 signatures does not say make the land public. It says that the IDA should ensure that the reuse plan should include protection of the wildlife and birds at the depot by creating a conservation area.

Whatever happens, the "winning" proposal must have a business plan that provides for sustainable protection and PROFESSIONAL management of the herd and wildlife.


I would add that the business plans should NOT include trophy hunting or trapping as part of the revenue stream.

Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
But aren't you one of the people who wanted the COUNTY to do something ? So they did something stupid, what did you expect. crazy
_________________________
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Harry S. Truman

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#1484215 --- 04/28/16 09:17 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
http://www.ask.com/pets-animals/can-coyote-jump-8-foot-fence-d3b52b66ce80f9bb
A coyote can jump an 8-foot fence. It is also very adept at climbing. To keep coyotes out of property, it is recommended to erect a wire fence that is at least 6 feet ...

I have seen a cat and a rabbit climb a chain link fence shocked


Edited by Hello_Governer (04/28/16 09:19 PM)
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#1484216 --- 04/28/16 11:21 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2298
Loc: Seneca Lake
Who wants to keep coyotes out or kill them ....except the trophy hunters?

The coyotes should be protected too.

Funny, there are deer and coyotes in Sampson. Somehow the deer are still there.

Wonder why the coyotes are so much more successful in the Depot....or maybe there are other predators killing the deer?

Poachers perhaps?

Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
http://www.ask.com/pets-animals/can-coyote-jump-8-foot-fence-d3b52b66ce80f9bb
A coyote can jump an 8-foot fence. It is also very adept at climbing. To keep coyotes out of property, it is recommended to erect a wire fence that is at least 6 feet ...

I have seen a cat and a rabbit climb a chain link fence shocked


Edited by all seeing eye (04/28/16 11:53 PM)
_________________________
"I never gave anyone hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell."

Harry S. Truman

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#1484231 --- 04/29/16 03:46 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca

DEC Issues Guidance to Avoid Conflicts with Coyotes


The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) today issued guidance on preventing conflicts between people and coyotes as spring temperatures approach and coyotes increase foraging.

"Coyotes are an integral part of our natural ecosystem, but they can come into conflict with people if they become habituated to human presence and food sources," said DEC Acting Commissioner Basil Seggos. "The coyote is an adaptable animal and has established populations throughout most of New York State. While coyotes can provide many benefits to New Yorkers through observation, photography, hunting, and trapping, they should be treated with respect and common sense."

With the onset of warmer weather, many of New York's resident coyotes have set up dens for soon-to-arrive pups. Coyotes are well adapted to suburban and even urban environments, but for the most part they will avoid contact with people. However, conflicts with people and pets may result as coyotes tend to be territorial around den sites during the spring through mid-summer period as they forage almost constantly to provide food for their young.

To minimize the chance that conflicts between people and coyotes occur, it is important that coyotes' natural fear of people is maintained. Below are recommended steps residents and visitors can take to reduce or prevent conflicts from occurring:
•Do not feed coyotes and discourage others from doing so.
•Unintentional food sources attract coyotes and other wildlife and increase risks to people and pets. To reduce risks: &#9702;Do not feed pets outside.
&#9702;Make any garbage inaccessible to coyotes and other animals.
&#9702;Fence or enclose compost piles so they are not accessible to coyotes.
&#9702;Eliminate availability of bird seed. Concentrations of birds and rodents that come to feeders can attract coyotes. If you see a coyote(s) near your birdfeeder, clean up waste seed and spillage to remove the attractant.

•Do not allow coyotes to approach people or pets.
•Teach children to appreciate coyotes from a distance.
•If you see a coyote, be aggressive in your behavior - stand tall, and hold arms out to look large. If a coyote lingers for too long, then make loud noises, wave your arms, throw sticks and stones.
•Do not allow pets to run free. Supervise all outdoor pets to keep them safe from coyotes and other wildlife, especially at sunset and at night. Small dogs and cats are especially vulnerable to coyotes.
•Fencing your yard may deter coyotes. The fence should be tight to the ground, preferably extending six inches below ground level, and taller than four feet.
•Remove brush and tall grass from around your home to reduce protective cover for coyotes. Coyotes are typically secretive and like areas where they can hide.
•Contact your local police department and NYSDEC regional office for assistance if you notice that coyotes are exhibiting "bold" behaviors and have little or no fear of people. Seeing a coyote occasionally throughout the year is not evidence of bold behavior.
•Ask your neighbors to follow these same steps.

The Eastern coyote is found in rural farmlands and forests to populated suburban and urban areas. In most cases, coyotes avoid people as much as possible. In fact, coyotes provide many exciting opportunities for New Yorkers. Their howling and yipping at night can provide a haunting but harmless reminder of wildlife in our midst. However, if coyotes learn to associate people with food (such as, garbage or pet food), they may lose their natural fear of humans, and the potential for close encounters or conflicts increases.

It is important to keep pets safe. Cats allowed to roam free are at risk from many different factors. To protect your cat from coyotes and other hazards, and to help protect nesting birds that cats often prey on, keep your cat indoors, or allow it outside only under supervision.

Owners of small dogs also have cause for concern. Small dogs are at greatest risk of being harmed or killed when coyotes are being territorial during denning and pup-rearing. Small dogs should not be left unattended in backyards at night and should remain supervised. Coyotes may approach small dogs along streets at night near natural areas, even in the presence of dog owners. Be alert of your surroundings and take precautions such as carrying a flashlight or a walking stick to deter coyotes. Owners of large and medium sized dogs have less to worry about, but should still take precautions.

If coyotes are seen repeatedly during the daytime in a human-populated area or in close proximity to residences, follow the above recommendations to reduce or prevent potential problems. If coyote behavior remains unchanged or becomes threatening, please report this to the local DEC office, as this may indicate that some individual coyotes have lost their fear of people and there may be a greater risk that a problem could occur.

For additional information about the Eastern Coyote and preventing conflicts with coyotes, visit the following webpages on DEC's website:
•Eastern Coyote
•Coyote Conflicts
•Feeding Wildlife: a wrong choice
•Tips to Eliminate Wildlife Conflicts


http://www.dec.ny.gov/press/press.html



The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation
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#1484380 --- 05/06/16 04:41 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
Todays paper, "DEC says let nature take it's course"
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Do we really have to make everything IDIOT PROOF ?

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#1484385 --- 05/06/16 08:27 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
all seeing eye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 2298
Loc: Seneca Lake
If that means no hunting and trapping at the Depot....I agree completely. Now we need something to stop the poachers.

Originally Posted By: Hello_Governer
Todays paper, "DEC says let nature take it's course"
_________________________
"I never gave anyone hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell."

Harry S. Truman

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#1485681 --- 06/16/16 11:31 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: all seeing eye]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 2048
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
OMG


did you see todays paper
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#1485683 --- 06/16/16 12:29 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Wyatt Earp Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Right behind you, Stilwell
fltimes.com
IRONCLAD WINNING BID: Fayette business owner pledges to use depot land for expansion, white deer preservation
DAVID L. SHAW dshaw@fltimes.com

WATERLOO — Earl Martin did not bid the most money for the available acreage at the former Seneca Army Depot.

The Seneca County Industrial Development Agency deemed Martin’s offer the best one, though.

The IDA Board of Directors voted 7-0 Wednesday to conditionally approve Martin’s bid of $900,000 for the roughly 7,000 acres being sold.

Martin’s bid also drew the support of Seneca White Deer Inc. President Dennis Money. Money said he was “delighted” Martin was chosen.

Before the sale happens, the IDA and Martin must negotiate a contract. In addition, the IDA will complete more survey work to delineate the exact boundaries of the public safety training facilities and the Kendaia Baptist Cemetery at the depot. And, the IDA will have to complete the State Environmental Quality Review Act process.

A closing is anticipated in the fourth quarter of this year.

Martin owns and operates Seneca Ironworks at 3236 Hoster Road in Fayette. He wants to invest about $13 million in a new manufacturing facility, part of an expansion of his metal-working and fabrication business. He plans to employ 200 people at the facility over the next 10 years.

Seneca Ironworks, which manufactures steel infrastructure for dairy barns, was founded in 1978.

The sale would make the property taxable, with the assessment to be determined.

Other details of Martin’s bid:

• It would create approximately 20 private homesteads on the property.

• There are plans for wildlife preservation and eco-tourism, goals to be achieved by working with SWD to sustain the white deer herd there.

• It allows for potential future development of solar energy facilities.

• He supports a dedicated, east-west public road across the north end of the property that would connect Routes 96 and 96A.

• It would exclude about 25 acres encompassing the public safety training facility on the property. Seneca County would buy those 25 acres for $1.

• It would create a permanent easement to allow family access to the Kendaia Baptist Cemetery on the property.

• It allows Martin to acquire the former depot airstrip as part of the sale.

IDA Executive Director Bob Aronson said public water is available near the airstrip and could be extended to serve a new manufacturing facility. There are no sanitary sewers on the property, but there is electrical infrastructure in place — although an upgrade would be needed.

The IDA met in executive session Wednesday for just over a half-hour before coming back into open session and approving the resolution.

Board member Valerie Bassett was absent.

A group made up of IDA and county Board of Supervisors members reviewed the 16 bids that were received by the Feb. 29 deadline in closed-door sessions. That panel unanimously agreed to recommend Martin’s bid for IDA acceptance.

The review committee interviewed Martin. His bid was examined for economic impacts, and it was endorsed by the Center for Governmental Research in a report commissioned by the IDA.

The motion approved by the IDA board — it was prepared by attorney Robert Halpin — states the IDA determined the Martin bid would increase tax revenue to the county, the towns of Romulus and Varick, and the South Seneca and Romulus school districts.

“The agency’s conveyance of the property to Martin will promote, develop, encourage and assist in the constructing, reconstructing, maintaining, improving and furnishing of manufacturing, industrial, warehousing, commercial, and recreational facilities in Seneca County and promote the job opportunities, general prosperity and economic welfare of citizens of the county and state, improve their standard of living and prevent economic deterioration in the county,” the measure stated.

The IDA could nix the sale if Martin does not make the required effort to preserve the white deer herd.

The motion also states the IDA plans to be lead agency for the environmental review.

Martin could not be reached for comment.

Money said he and Martin have met to discuss the white deer.

“We have a common interest in promoting economic development and preserving the white deer herd,” Money said. “We have met a few times, including Wednesday, so we’re in the beginning stages of developing a plan for the deer. Earl came to us and I think this bodes well. It’s a positive decision and we look forward to working with him.”

SIDEBAR — Press conference

WATERLOO — The Seneca County Industrial Development Agency has scheduled a press conference for 2 p.m. today to introduce Earl Martin, the winning bidder for about 7,000 available acres at the former Seneca Army Depot.

The press conference will be held in the county office building’s Heroes Conference Room.

The IDA, county Board of Supervisors and Martin will share potential plans for the property, which include a mix of industrial development, agriculture, tourism and wildlife and white deer preservation.

— David L. Shaw
_________________________
You tell em I'm comin' and Hell's comin' with me, you hear?
Hell's comin' with me!

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#1485685 --- 06/16/16 01:40 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
mountain Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/15/10
Posts: 4
Loc: finger lakes
$128 per acre

Is this the same Earl Martin that has the metal roofing facility just outside of Penn Yan??


Edited by mountain (06/16/16 01:55 PM)

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#1485834 --- 06/20/16 05:00 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Wizard Oz Falls Offline
Member

Registered: 05/13/16
Posts: 120
Release and let the deer roam with other animals outside the fence.

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#1486317 --- 07/01/16 08:27 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
newsman38 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4947
Loc: Fourth Estate
New owner of depot property taking steps to aid white deer

The Seneca County Industrial Development Agency said the future owner of 7,000 acres of the former Seneca Army Depot already is making good on his plan to work toward preserving the white deer that roam the site.

Earl Martin, whose $900,000 bid for the land was accepted by the IDA earlier this month, has planted soybeans to enhance the food supply at the 10,586-acre depot and is planning to add additional security to reduce recent vandalism, including fence-cutting incidents. To prevent vandalism, Martin is adding security equipment around the depot perimeter and is working with law enforcement to increase patrols and develop additional security measures.

White deer supporters said adequate fencing is crucial to keeping the white deer from leaving the property.

Martin said the soybeans planted at the depot are non-genetically modified organisms, and that no pesticides will be used as they grow. Martin’s team has planted 15 acres of soybeans.

Martin’s plan to preserve the dwindling white deer herd was considered key to the IDA’s decision to accept his bid.

Seneca White Deer Inc., which is headed by Dennis Money of Canandaigua, said it supported Martin’s plan.

By STEVE BUCHIERE sbuchiere@fltimes.com Updated 20 hrs ago

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#1486322 --- 07/01/16 10:57 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: newsman38]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 2048
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Why not plant native plants that are the deer's natural food supply ? You can be sure fixing the fence and added security is to keep people out more than it is to keep the deer in. grin
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