FingerLakes1.com Forums
Page 7 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >
Topic Options
#1482056 --- 02/20/16 12:07 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Devil's Advocate Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 231
Loc: 6th Circle of Hell
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
Quote:
Again, I am not sure of your point. What are you saying should be done with the white deer, which have no protective coloration and would not be able to survive long in the wild?
Why do you want to keep breeding wild animals that can't survive in the wild?
For their great beauty enjoyed by many and the tourists it will draw.


Inbreeding animals for traits that decrease their chance of survival/health for profit. Sounds exactly like a puppy mill or factory farming.

Top
FingerLakes1.com
#1482063 --- 02/20/16 03:16 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Devil's Advocate]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Devil's Advocate
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
Quote:
Again, I am not sure of your point. What are you saying should be done with the white deer, which have no protective coloration and would not be able to survive long in the wild?
Why do you want to keep breeding wild animals that can't survive in the wild?
For their great beauty enjoyed by many and the tourists it will draw.
Inbreeding animals for traits that decrease their chance of survival/health for profit. Sounds exactly like a puppy mill or factory farming.
There is absolutely no comparison between 3,000 acres of forest and a poor pregnant female dog having her umpteenth litter of puppies in a cage where she can't even turn around! On the depot there are brown deer as well as white deer and the experts say they often interbreed.
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

Top
#1482064 --- 02/20/16 03:33 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
Hot Burrito Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/00
Posts: 767
Loc: Tiajuna Flats
Without contained white inbreeding won't the brown deer eventually overrun the recessive white gene?

Top
#1482065 --- 02/20/16 03:44 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hot Burrito]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
Without contained white inbreeding won't the brown deer eventually overrun the recessive white gene?
I don't think so since the depot has had these brown and white deer fenced in together for 60 years and it hasn't happened yet. I believe brown deer are a majority on the depot and have been since the fence was put up in the 1940's. This is a very unusual situation and should be allowed to continue for it uniqueness.
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

Top
#1482067 --- 02/20/16 04:29 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 2063
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
Without contained white inbreeding won't the brown deer eventually overrun the recessive white gene?
I don't think so since the depot has had these brown and white deer fenced in together for 60 years and it hasn't happened yet. I believe brown deer are a majority on the depot and have been since the fence was put up in the 1940's. This is a very unusual situation and should be allowed to continue for it uniqueness.

BUT, the minute you limit them to 3000acres, rather than 10,000 PLUS acres, you have screwed up everything laugh
_________________________
I can't wait till humans evolve into an intelligent species.

Top
#1482069 --- 02/20/16 04:46 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 2063
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
Without contained white inbreeding won't the brown deer eventually overrun the recessive white gene?
I don't think so since the depot has had these brown and white deer fenced in together for 60 years and it hasn't happened yet. I believe brown deer are a majority on the depot and have been since the fence was put up in the 1940's. This is a very unusual situation and should be allowed to continue for it uniqueness.

you keep ignoring the fact that the deer have NEVER been confined by the fence. The first time I saw a white deer outside the fence was in 1957 at the entrance where Hillside is now. I have watched them as they walked right past the guard shack and out the gate and on down the road.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/ctguide07.pdf


Edited by scwoodchuck (02/20/16 04:49 PM)
_________________________
I can't wait till humans evolve into an intelligent species.

Top
#1482071 --- 02/20/16 04:58 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hot Burrito]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 2063
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
Without contained white inbreeding won't the brown deer eventually overrun the recessive white gene?
most likely, a mature buck has a range of up to 16,000 acres and will drive away younger bucks, sometimes even killing them. One brown buck could make a mess of your eco-park crazy

whatever you do, don't read this
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/ctguide07.pdf

not you personally hot burrito


Edited by scwoodchuck (02/20/16 05:05 PM)
_________________________
I can't wait till humans evolve into an intelligent species.

Top
#1482074 --- 02/20/16 05:59 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 2063
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
dogs ain't deer
"There is absolutely no comparison between 3,000 acres of forest and a poor pregnant female dog having her umpteenth litter of puppies in a cage where she can't even turn around"
Social System: White-tailed deer exhibit an elaborate social pattern. During the warm months of the year, the basic social unit consists of related females, their fawns and yearlings, and adult males all of which have contiguous or overlapping home ranges. In autumn, yearling males disperse up to 25 miles (average 5 miles) to establish permanent ranges with a different social unit.

The average size of the summer home range is 536 acres for both sexes, but during the rut, expands to 853 acres for males. White-tailed deer are polygamous. Each adult male competes with other males for access to females, and each male may exclude neighboring males from parts of its home range in the breeding season. All members of a social unit congregate at the same traditional winter range or yard where the home range size averages 338 acres per individual.That's 10 deer on your 3,000 acres. Fawns accompany their mother to the winter ranges. Frequently, members of several social units use the same wintering area. Tradition largely determines the use of a particular yard. Thus, social units return to the same yard from one year to the next, sometimes passing by coniferous cover that appears to offer similar winter habitat. Social hierarchies are evident when deer congregate in herds, with rank determined by sex, age, and size. The largest males are dominant, followed in rank by adult females. Yearlings and fawns are subordinate to all others. Hierarchies determine access to food, especially when browse is limited. Densities of white-tailed deer for winter yards may approach or exceed 100-125 individuals per square mile, but are 4-25 deer per square mile for summer 1 square mile is 640 acres
3000 acres may only support 18 deer and at 25 deer per sq. mile it would support 115 under perfect conditions. That's with 1 to 3 mature buck whistle


Edited by scwoodchuck (02/20/16 06:07 PM)
_________________________
I can't wait till humans evolve into an intelligent species.

Top
#1482078 --- 02/20/16 07:15 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
STL9370 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 2
The white recessive gene exits in the wild Whitetail population all over NYS and beyond. But it rarely appears because of the genetic diversity of the wild Whitetail. Because of the fences the depot herd lacks genetic diversity and so the recessive combination appears more often. Thus inbreeding results. Inbreeding at a high enough percentage causes each succeeding generation to be smaller, less healthy, less fertile, & less intelligent. Google it or consult some research geneticists. To maintain a captive closed gene pool is the cruelest way for the county to handle this whole situation.

Top
#1482079 --- 02/20/16 07:20 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: STL9370]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: STL9370
Inbreeding at a high enough percentage causes each succeeding generation to be smaller, less healthy, less fertile, & less intelligent.
How many generations has their been since the 1940's? And no unhealthy generations have been noted until now? Seems mighty strange.
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

Top
#1482080 --- 02/20/16 07:36 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Ghosts]
STL9370 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/06/16
Posts: 2
Next time you drive by the depot please notice how small, thin, & sickly the deer inside the fence look compared to deer outside the fence. Also you have no way to determine how many deer inside the fence die of genetic diseases and poor health.

Let them go and assimilate into the wild outside of the fence. They won't disappear just get more rare.

Top
#1482081 --- 02/20/16 08:27 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: STL9370]
Here's Johnny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 850
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: STL9370
Next time you drive by the depot please notice how small, thin, & sickly the deer inside the fence look compared to deer outside the fence. Also you have no way to determine how many deer inside the fence die of genetic diseases and poor health.

Let them go and assimilate into the wild outside of the fence. They won't disappear just get more rare.


They do look sickly, looking more like mutant goats than deer.


Edited by Here's Johnny (02/20/16 10:07 PM)

Top
#1482084 --- 02/20/16 10:26 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: STL9370
Inbreeding at a high enough percentage causes each succeeding generation to be smaller, less healthy, less fertile, & less intelligent.
How many generations has their been since the 1940's? And no unhealthy generations have been noted until now? Seems mighty strange.

don't be too sure about that, I have see some really weird looking deer with some really messed up antlers crazy
_________________________
Do we really have to make everything IDIOT PROOF ?

Top
#1482087 --- 02/21/16 08:35 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Finger Lakes Times today page 1D

QUOTE OF THE WEEK

“This is a unique opportunity for Seneca County to stand apart from other areas in the world…..as only the Finger Lakes has the white deer:”

----Carol and Jim Doolittle, winery owners and advocates for an eco-tourism park.
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

Top
#1482089 --- 02/21/16 09:08 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hot Burrito Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/00
Posts: 767
Loc: Tiajuna Flats
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Finger Lakes Times today page 1D

QUOTE OF THE WEEK

“This is a unique opportunity for Seneca County to stand apart from other areas in the world…..as only the Finger Lakes has the white deer:”

----Carol and Jim Doolittle, winery owners and advocates for an eco-tourism park.



Since other places have white deer doesn't that disqualify their opinion as ill informed?

Top
#1482100 --- 02/21/16 11:28 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hot Burrito]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Hot Burrito
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Finger Lakes Times today page 1D

QUOTE OF THE WEEK

“This is a unique opportunity for Seneca County to stand apart from other areas in the world…..as only the Finger Lakes has the white deer:”

----Carol and Jim Doolittle, winery owners and advocates for an eco-tourism park.
Since other places have white deer doesn't that disqualify their opinion as ill informed?

I goggled where are white deer located? I found essentially nothing else except here.

http://senecawhitedeer.org/
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

Top
#1482101 --- 02/21/16 11:42 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
http://protectthewhitedeer.com/albino-questions
White deer are ordinary white-tailed deer with an extraordinary color. ... There is a population of white deer near Boulder Junction in north central Wisconsin

crazy

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2014/10/24/albino-deer-hunt-backlash/17804399/
Oct 24, 2014 ... Albino and exotic, all-white deer have been legal to hunt in Michigan since 2008, when the state lifted protection of the creatures, Rudolph said.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/gallery/hunting/2012/10/deer-different-color
Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Tennessee and Wisconsin prohibit killing albino deer and Iowa goes so far as to protect deer that are 50 percent or more white


Edited by Hello_Governer (02/21/16 11:51 AM)
_________________________
Do we really have to make everything IDIOT PROOF ?

Top
#1482102 --- 02/21/16 12:13 PM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: New York, Seneca
Deer with aberrant color phases are not uncommon in Alabama. A pure white (albino) or black (melanistic) deer is indeed rare. However, harvests of piebald deer are fairly common throughout Alabama. Piebald deer are characterized by having an almost all-white coat with some brown splotches present.
http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/news/weirdwhitetails_wt_1201melanistic/
Sep 22, 2010 ... But as unusual as it is to see a whitetail that's far too light in color, it's even ... The odd “black” deer has shown up here and there, from the East ...

DAMN, just when you think you have something real special someone comes up with a BLACK deer that's even more special
_________________________
Do we really have to make everything IDIOT PROOF ?

Top
#1482410 --- 02/28/16 07:19 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: Hello_Governer]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
There are nine Letters to the Editor in the FL Times today. They are all long and they all support protecting the white deer.
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

Top
#1482414 --- 02/28/16 07:47 AM Re: Save the white deer, birds and wildlife at the Seneca Army Depot [Re: kyle585]
scwoodchuck Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 2063
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Originally Posted By: kyle585
There are nine Letters to the Editor in the FL Times today. They are all long and they all support protecting the white deer.
Go back and read the letters again. One person said "Round up deer and donate them to zoos." Another said " wild deer take care of themselves". 2 think the coyotes will get them.
_________________________
I can't wait till humans evolve into an intelligent species.

Top
Page 7 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >