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#1476035 --- 09/18/15 02:06 AM Re: The Battle of Co Rt 124 [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14300
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Acenes
What don't you understand? It's not the sheriff, it's the department. It's the system.
You have no idea how badly I was once hurt by the "system". But I still generally still support the "system" because I don't see any better "system" of justice in the world.

Thereby revealing a severely limited knowledge of select foreign legal systems.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2014/03/06/top-10-countries-where-justice-prevails/
http://www.lawpeopleblog.com/2013/06/the-worlds-best-legal-system/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nancy-k-humphreys/is-our-legal-system-the-b_b_3612565.html
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#1476046 --- 09/18/15 09:09 AM Re: The Battle of Co Rt 124 [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
No, it most certainly is NOT what war is about. Especially as it relates to the War of Independence, the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Grenada and Operation Desert Storm among others.

American involvement in those cases all share the same fundamental principal, the repulsion of tyranny, invasion, subjugation, genocide, assimilation and every other similar atrocity committed upon the American aboriginal peoples. Yours was an extremely "uninformed" comment... and frankly, rather insulting to everyone who's ever worn the uniform.


Originally Posted By: Timbo



I was nicknamed "WEAPS" for a very good reason.


were you going out fishing?
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#1476048 --- 09/18/15 09:23 AM Taking Out the Trash [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14300
Loc: CNY

No, just disposing of some of the infantile nonsense that you litter these forums with.
BOOOOOM!
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#1476051 --- 09/18/15 09:47 AM Re: The Battle of Co Rt 124 [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Saphire
We live by the laws of 2015 not the 1700's


ever notice that none of the 'tribal supporters' ever give their land back to the 'tribe'
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1476053 --- 09/18/15 09:50 AM Re: The Battle of Co Rt 124 [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
No


may you have a pleasant day
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#1476054 --- 09/18/15 09:51 AM Walking the Talk [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14300
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
ever notice that none of the 'tribal supporters' ever give their land back to the 'tribe'

Ever notice that we're willing to open the dialogue to begin the process?
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1476056 --- 09/18/15 10:33 AM Re: The Battle of Co Rt 124 [Re: Acenes]
CMH Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 45
Loc: Seneca Falls
Are you implying that the Natives are not motivated by monetary gains?

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#1476060 --- 09/18/15 11:27 AM Re: The Battle of Co Rt 124 [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: bluezone
ever notice that none of the 'tribal supporters' ever give their land back to the 'tribe'

Ever notice that we're willing to open the dialogue to begin the process?


and what did the 'tribal' leaders tell you when you offered them your land?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1476064 --- 09/18/15 12:28 PM Stole it Fair & Square [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14300
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: bluezone
ever notice that none of the 'tribal supporters' ever give their land back to the 'tribe'
Ever notice that we're willing to open the dialogue to begin the process?
and what did the 'tribal' leaders tell you when you offered them your land?

Why is it that such laughable "all-or-nothing" arguments such as that one invariably wind up with you getting it ALL while leaving them with NOTHING?
_________________________
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#1476077 --- 09/18/15 02:01 PM Re: Stole it Fair & Square [Re: Here's Johnny]
CMH Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 45
Loc: Seneca Falls
I am new to this particular thread but wasn't this already determined by the US court of Appeals (2nd Circuit)in 2005 and then denied for review by the US Supreme Court in 2006? I feel like this is past who legally is right and wrong and is now more of a when will the Federal government enforce their ruling issue.

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#1476078 --- 09/18/15 03:14 PM Recent illlegal display by the Cayuga on Co Rd 124 [Re: CMH]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4613
Loc: New York State
I have been here since the very beginning of these threads and through the threats and intimidation perpetuated by the Cayuga and this is what I see and what I believed then and now.

99% of what is posted is garbage and the remaining 1% of fact has been disputed in courts and the Cayuga's lost. This is ancient history just as the control of the Cayuga’s over this land was. Yet there are those who continue to profess knowledge of the law and how it should apply. Save it for the courts and let the legal eagles handle that end of it. I for one do not feel inferior because some know the difference in the various courts and how the law is applied. Oh and I am sick to death of political correctness as those attempting to wrest political control spread their tainted message.

Most of us are just plain, uneducated lay people who know the basics and will post our opinions regardless of insults and attempts to put down the poster rather than his information.

This is what the many of us believe and no one is going to change our minds.


One cannot take a certain point in history such as the arrival of the Cayuga and say that any changes after their seizure of the land do not mean anything and it was and always will be Cayuga land. It was not then and certainly is not today. There were many here BEFORE the Cayuga and certainly before the Iroquois League became the dominant society. The Cayuga wrested control from the Algonquin as the most dominant society in its day and later the Cayuga were displaced by yet another more dominant society, the Europeans. The Indian lost the ability to govern and rule the land in the late 1700’s and early 1800’s and the little land remaining under their control was sold.

That is what happened, nothing we say will change those facts. They have been told in no uncertain terms they cannot just purchase land and declare it sovereign as they lost that governmental
authority centuries ago.


Civilization has advanced steadily and overwhelmed those who are resistant to change. Governments change, the nature of the population as well. Civilization marches on.


And so went the Cayuga and their brief tenancy of the land.

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#1476079 --- 09/18/15 06:47 PM Re: Recent illlegal display by the Cayuga on Co Rd 124 [Re: grinch]
SilverFox Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 6483
Loc: Waterloo
Well said Grinch. Thank you.
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#1476081 --- 09/18/15 09:03 PM Re: The Battle of Co Rt 124 [Re: bluezone]
Acenes Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 185
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Saphire
We live by the laws of 2015 not the 1700's


ever notice that none of the 'tribal supporters' ever give their land back to the 'tribe'








We would see the hateful bigots give theirs back first.

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#1476082 --- 09/18/15 09:11 PM Re: Recent illlegal display by the Cayuga on Co Rd 124 [Re: grinch]
Acenes Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 185
Originally Posted By: grinch
I have been here since the very beginning of these threads and through the threats and intimidation perpetuated by the Cayuga and this is what I see and what I believed then and now.

99% of what is posted is garbage and the remaining 1% of fact has been disputed in courts and the Cayuga's lost. This is ancient history just as the control of the Cayuga’s over this land was. Yet there are those who continue to profess knowledge of the law and how it should apply. Save it for the courts and let the legal eagles handle that end of it. I for one do not feel inferior because some know the difference in the various courts and how the law is applied. Oh and I am sick to death of political correctness as those attempting to wrest political control spread their tainted message.

Most of us are just plain, uneducated lay people who know the basics and will post our opinions regardless of insults and attempts to put down the poster rather than his information.

This is what the many of us believe and no one is going to change our minds.


One cannot take a certain point in history such as the arrival of the Cayuga and say that any changes after their seizure of the land do not mean anything and it was and always will be Cayuga land. It was not then and certainly is not today. There were many here BEFORE the Cayuga and certainly before the Iroquois League became the dominant society. The Cayuga wrested control from the Algonquin as the most dominant society in its day and later the Cayuga were displaced by yet another more dominant society, the Europeans. The Indian lost the ability to govern and rule the land in the late 1700’s and early 1800’s and the little land remaining under their control was sold.

That is what happened, nothing we say will change those facts. They have been told in no uncertain terms they cannot just purchase land and declare it sovereign as they lost that governmental
authority centuries ago.


Civilization has advanced steadily and overwhelmed those who are resistant to change. Governments change, the nature of the population as well. Civilization marches on.


And so went the Cayuga and their brief tenancy of the land.







"Political correctness" is simply what people blame when they get called out for their bigoted and hateful tirades. Your opinion of history could not be more wrong. The federal courts have repeatedly ruled that the Cayugas have the right to purchase land and not pay taxes on it. No matter how much you cry, this is not going to change.

You justify Europeans taking this land by force. By that same logic you should be fine with the Cayuga returning en mass and taking the land back by force, correct?

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#1476084 --- 09/19/15 01:41 AM Re: The Battle of Co Rt 124 [Re: Acenes]
hearallseeall Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 1973
Loc: nolongerunder10pilesoftrash
Originally Posted By: Acenes
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Acenes
What don't you understand? It's not the sheriff, it's the department. It's the system. It's the way policing is a business now.
a business now? Was it better years ago? When and why did it change?

It was absolutely better years ago. When the law was just that...The law. Beginning in the '90's policing for profit began to come about. Municipalities began to realize just how much money they could make off non-violent tax-payers who commit victimless "Crimes". I bet you didn't know the Seneca county "correctional facility" and Five Points prison are both privately-run did you? Prisoners are treated as a commodity and the company that owns and operates these facilities make money off people being held their for non-violent and victimless crimes. Do the research.

You need to do YOUR research!!

How can anyone take you seriously when you're trying to tell us a Seneca COUNTY (C O U N T Y) Correctional Facility and a NY STATE (S T A T E) Prison are PRIVATELY owned.

Tell us this ACNE. Where did our NYS prisoner David Sweat end up??

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#1476088 --- 09/19/15 08:18 AM Re: Recent illlegal display by the Cayuga on Co Rd 124 [Re: Acenes]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4613
Loc: New York State
Originally Posted By: Acenes
Originally Posted By: grinch
I have been here since the very beginning of these threads and through the threats and intimidation perpetuated by the Cayuga and this is what I see and what I believed then and now.

99% of what is posted is garbage and the remaining 1% of fact has been disputed in courts and the Cayuga's lost. This is ancient history just as the control of the Cayuga’s over this land was. Yet there are those who continue to profess knowledge of the law and how it should apply. Save it for the courts and let the legal eagles handle that end of it. I for one do not feel inferior because some know the difference in the various courts and how the law is applied. Oh and I am sick to death of political correctness as those attempting to wrest political control spread their tainted message.

Most of us are just plain, uneducated lay people who know the basics and will post our opinions regardless of insults and attempts to put down the poster rather than his information.

This is what the many of us believe and no one is going to change our minds.


One cannot take a certain point in history such as the arrival of the Cayuga and say that any changes after their seizure of the land do not mean anything and it was and always will be Cayuga land. It was not then and certainly is not today. There were many here BEFORE the Cayuga and certainly before the Iroquois League became the dominant society. The Cayuga wrested control from the Algonquin as the most dominant society in its day and later the Cayuga were displaced by yet another more dominant society, the Europeans. The Indian lost the ability to govern and rule the land in the late 1700’s and early 1800’s and the little land remaining under their control was sold.

That is what happened, nothing we say will change those facts. They have been told in no uncertain terms they cannot just purchase land and declare it sovereign as they lost that governmental
authority centuries ago.


Civilization has advanced steadily and overwhelmed those who are resistant to change. Governments change, the nature of the population as well. Civilization marches on.


And so went the Cayuga and their brief tenancy of the land.







"Political correctness" is simply what people blame when they get called out for their bigoted and hateful tirades. Your opinion of history could not be more wrong. The federal courts have repeatedly ruled that the Cayugas have the right to purchase land and not pay taxes on it. No matter how much you cry, this is not going to change.

You justify Europeans taking this land by force. By that same logic you should be fine with the Cayuga returning en mass and taking the land back by force, correct?


It is very sad to read your postings as you attempt to prove something or other or to make an argument over things settled centuries ago. My statement does not need defending.
Are you all right? Do you need a little help towards actually understanding what happened in the past, why it happened and the situation today? Perhaps someone here can point you in the right direction to do some reading and research. You seem to read meaning in someone's post that is neither there or apparent to others. Perhaps a little reading on bigotry and racisim might help you to recognize it when it comes up.

Do you understand the rights and responsibilities of individual citizens or small business purchasing and owning properties? Rights everyone has including Indians and Tribal business. You seem to be confused on the issue concerning property ownership and governmental control. Perhaps you should review what SCOTUS actually said about Indians and Indian business paying taxes on land they own and why the matter is still before the courts. You may find your statement is inaccurate.


The Cayuga’s day in the sun ended long ago, they were not able to hold against a few then, today they have absolutely no chance of ever regaining something they never had. Live with it.


Oh I do admire your passion and tenacity as you fight your windmills in the sky.




Edited by grinch (09/19/15 09:35 AM)

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#1476090 --- 09/19/15 08:50 AM Re: The Battle of Co Rt 124 [Re: Acenes]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Acenes
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Saphire
We live by the laws of 2015 not the 1700's


ever notice that none of the 'tribal supporters' ever give their land back to the 'tribe'



We would see the hateful bigots give theirs back first.


should we take that to mean that you still reside on land that is not years?

keep running in circles...
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1476091 --- 09/19/15 08:58 AM Re: Recent illlegal display by the Cayuga on Co Rd 124 [Re: Acenes]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Acenes
The federal courts have repeatedly ruled that the Cayugas have the right to purchase land and not pay taxes on it.


incorrect

Quote:
In its legal arguments, the Seneca Nation "expressly acknowledges that, as a general principle, New York State has the authority to require reservation retailers to collect excise taxes on sales to non-Indians," Arcara wrote.


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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1476094 --- 09/19/15 09:13 AM Re:The Battle of Co Rt 124 [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32535
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: bluezone
ever notice that none of the 'tribal supporters' ever give their land back to the 'tribe'
Ever notice that we're willing to open the dialogue to begin the process?
and what did the 'tribal' leaders tell you when you offered them your land?

Why is it that such laughable "all-or-nothing" arguments such as that one invariably wind up with you getting it ALL while leaving them with NOTHING?


more double talk from you...

the simple question is:
you say it is the 'tribes' land then until YOU give YOUR land back to the 'tribe' your statements lack merit
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1476096 --- 09/19/15 09:44 AM Re:The Battle of Co Rt 124 [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14300
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: bluezone
ever notice that none of the 'tribal supporters' ever give their land back to the 'tribe'
Ever notice that we're willing to open the dialogue to begin the process?
and what did the 'tribal' leaders tell you when you offered them your land?
Why is it that such laughable "all-or-nothing" arguments such as that one invariably wind up with you getting it ALL while leaving them with NOTHING?
more double talk from you...

the simple question is:
you say it is the 'tribes' land then until YOU give YOUR land back to the 'tribe' your statements lack merit

Not only is that not a question, it's also not something I ever said (nor do I believe).

There you go fabricating your "facts"... again. crazy

As for double-talk... I'd suggest you crack a dictionary and learn the definition of the term. You clearly don't understand how it applies, because this clearly isn't one of those cases.
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