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#1466139 --- 02/16/15 08:53 AM Hobart / Poverty
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
it appears that hobart is happy to send a check for $170,000 to the city rather then sending a yearly $1 million check

are they spending $50+ million for the new performance center? whistle

how many millions have they spent to buy properties and take them off the tax rolls?

does the $170,000 check even cover the costs for police to repond to HWS situtations during the year?


Originally Posted By: Libertas
Per the Democrat and Chronicle...

"White Plains residents pay the highest total property taxes per capita among cities in New York, while Binghamton has the highest effective property-tax rate in the state, a review today found.

Albany had the highest effective property-tax rate — which is the total raised through property taxes divided by adjusted full value of property — among large cities at 1.22 percent. Overall among cities, Binghamton led the pack at 2.51 percent, the Empire Center for State Policy found.

Among cities, White Plains residents paid the highest per capita taxes at $1,898, and the Westchester County city also had the highest per capita spending at $3,716.

Rye ranked second in property taxes per capita at $1,500 and Yonkers ranked third at $1,381. They are all in Westchester, which has the highest property taxes in the nation. The city of Rochester ranked eight at $2,675 per capita, the group said.

Geneva, Ontario County, had the highest per capita debt at $3,318.

The group calculated the rates through its Benchmarking New York online tool.

“New Yorkers are paying some of the highest property taxes in the country, and Benchmarking New York is a powerful tool that lets them see exactly how their taxes compare to those in other communities,” said Tim Hoefer, executive director of the conservative, Albany-based group.

It found that Lewis County in northern New York had the highest expenditure among counties in New York, at $4,659 per capita. Westchester ranked fourth at $2,670, while Broome County ranked fifth at $2,655.

The small Adirondacks town of Newcomb had the highest expenditure and taxes per capita among New York towns. Among villages, the Fire Island village of Saltaire had the highest expenditures and taxes per capita — a whopping $58,566 per home owner, which totals about 37 year-round residents."


Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.



does canandaigua have 55% on snap / medicaid?

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#1466140 --- 02/16/15 08:58 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
it appears that hobart is happy to send a check for $170,000 to the city rather then sending a yearly $1 million check

are they spending $50+ million for the new performance center? whistle

how many millions have they spent to buy properties and take them off the tax rolls?

does the $170,000 check even cover the costs for police to repond HWS situtations during the year?


Originally Posted By: Libertas
Per the Democrat and Chronicle...

"White Plains residents pay the highest total property taxes per capita among cities in New York, while Binghamton has the highest effective property-tax rate in the state, a review today found.

Albany had the highest effective property-tax rate — which is the total raised through property taxes divided by adjusted full value of property — among large cities at 1.22 percent. Overall among cities, Binghamton led the pack at 2.51 percent, the Empire Center for State Policy found.

Among cities, White Plains residents paid the highest per capita taxes at $1,898, and the Westchester County city also had the highest per capita spending at $3,716.

Rye ranked second in property taxes per capita at $1,500 and Yonkers ranked third at $1,381. They are all in Westchester, which has the highest property taxes in the nation. The city of Rochester ranked eight at $2,675 per capita, the group said.

Geneva, Ontario County, had the highest per capita debt at $3,318.

The group calculated the rates through its Benchmarking New York online tool.

“New Yorkers are paying some of the highest property taxes in the country, and Benchmarking New York is a powerful tool that lets them see exactly how their taxes compare to those in other communities,” said Tim Hoefer, executive director of the conservative, Albany-based group.

It found that Lewis County in northern New York had the highest expenditure among counties in New York, at $4,659 per capita. Westchester ranked fourth at $2,670, while Broome County ranked fifth at $2,655.

The small Adirondacks town of Newcomb had the highest expenditure and taxes per capita among New York towns. Among villages, the Fire Island village of Saltaire had the highest expenditures and taxes per capita — a whopping $58,566 per home owner, which totals about 37 year-round residents."


Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.



does canandaigua have 55% on snap or medicaid?



And yet Hobart contributes $244 million to the local economy. Don't blame Hobart for mismanagement in City government. Maybe if the City got it's act together more of the Profs would live in Geneva and even more money would flow in.

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#1466141 --- 02/16/15 09:00 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Don't blame Hobart for mismanagement in City government.


does HWS have 200+ acres off the tax rolls?
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#1466142 --- 02/16/15 09:02 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
And yet Hobart contributes $244 million to the local economy.


do you have a break down of where in geneva that money went?
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#1466149 --- 02/16/15 09:25 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga

And yet Hobart contributes $244 million to the local economy.


and yet HWS was willing to take the city of geneva to court over the benefits assessment district where HWS/non-profits would have to pay $1 million per year

why would HWS 'contribute' $244 million but fight the city over a much smaller amount of $1 million?

1 / 244 = 0.004



_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1466153 --- 02/16/15 09:54 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga

And yet Hobart contributes $244 million to the local economy.


if that were true the streets would be paved in gold, there would be no city taxes and all the city children would be feed

whistle
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1466157 --- 02/16/15 11:09 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 186
Good point, bluezone! That's a heck of a lot of money.

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#1466158 --- 02/16/15 11:18 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: ruby2]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4460
Loc: USA
Where does that $244 million "contribution" figure come from? Someone's imagination or is there a paper trail to back it up?

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#1466160 --- 02/16/15 11:41 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
FLaker Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 88
Loc: Finger Lakes
It is written in the New York State Constitution that as a nonprofit institutions, the colleges, hospital, experiment station, churches and city school district, among others, do not have to pay real property taxes.

It would be completely irrational for the HWS or hospital boards to vote in favor of voluntarily paying property taxes over funding capital improvements.

Register your complaints with Nozzolio and Kolb if you think it's unjust.

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#1466161 --- 02/16/15 12:32 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: cwjga

And yet Hobart contributes $244 million to the local economy.


if that were true the streets would be paved in gold, there would be no city taxes and all the city children would be feed

whistle



Study pegs HWS economic impact at $244M


Posted: Sunday, February 15, 2015 2:00 pm
By JIM MILLER jmiller@fltimes.com | 0 comments

GENEVA — Hobart and William Smith Colleges’ economic impact topped $244 million in 2013, a study by the Center for Governmental Research found.
CGR reviewed the impact of independent colleges and universities statewide. Hobart and William Smith touted the results last week as it presented a $169,793 check to the city, part of a 10-year, $1.7 million commitment to help Geneva keep its budget balanced.

“From my point of view, we’re all in this together,” HWS President Mark Gearan said. “Geneva is a great place to live, a great place to work, and it’s a great place for our students to study and learn.”
The CGR study included the Colleges’ spending on labor and construction in its impact figure, along with spending by students and visitors. The latter totaled $21.6 million in 2013.
Meanwhile, the Colleges themselves spent more than $101 million and directly employed 730 people.
“I think it evidences that Hobart and William Smith comes in partnership with the community,” Gearan said. “We are advantaged, certainly, by the opportunities that the city provides us. I’d like to think that people could see in this the significant impacts of Hobart and William Smith. This one is economic — $244 million — and that does not count the number of personnel that volunteer in community services, our partnership, Geneva 2020, which we’re leading with the school system, and hopefully the engagement that all community members have.”
The Colleges have been criticized because of the more than $100 million worth of tax-exempt property they own. However, city officials say their positive impact is pronounced.
“The funds provided by HWS under our agreement represent only a fraction of the total contribution of the Colleges today, and of the commitment they continue to make in fostering economic development and growth in Geneva,” City Manager Matt Horn said in a press release. “The Colleges’ financial impact has been well-documented, and it can be felt in nearly every economic and social aspect of the Geneva community. We are proud to host Hobart and William Smith Colleges, and look forward to many more years of continued partnership.”
The Colleges moved their Office of Advancement downtown in 2012, creating the largest influx of employees in recent history. The Colleges also have moved their communications office to 20 Seneca St. and plan to move some information technology staff downtown too.
Because the Colleges lease space downtown, the property remains on the tax roll.
“Hobart and William Smith have been a great partner for the city of Geneva in many different ways,” John Hicks, director of the Business Improvement District, said in a press release. “For both the city and BID, the Colleges have been great in sharing time and service, collaborating on internships and offering expertise on projects in the community. Local spending by the Colleges, students and employees also has a considerable impact, while the campus infrastructure, including athletic venues and the success of the teams, has drawn people to the city and HWS.”
The Colleges have done their own studies of their economic impact in the past. Gearan sees the CGR report as third-party, independent verification of that work.
“We are proud of our partnership and certainly grateful to Geneva,” he said. “It’s been a wonderful host to the Colleges for nearly two centuries.”

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#1466164 --- 02/16/15 01:51 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
Oogie Offline
Member

Registered: 05/06/11
Posts: 101
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: cwjga

Study pegs HWS economic impact at $244M

[...]
“From my point of view [...] Geneva is a great place to live..."


He can say that again! Although one of the wealthiest individuals living in the city, and residing in what can fairly be called a mansion, Mr. Gearan has never paid so much as a dime in property taxes. Funny how neither he nor HWS ever mention that when patting themselves on the back about "economic impact."

BTW, how's that federal investigation into HWS' inability to properly handle on-campus sexual assaults coming along?

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/al...-sexual-assault

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#1466165 --- 02/16/15 02:29 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Oogie]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Oogie
Originally Posted By: cwjga

Study pegs HWS economic impact at $244M

[...]
“From my point of view [...] Geneva is a great place to live..."


He can say that again! Although one of the wealthiest individuals living in the city, and residing in what can fairly be called a mansion, Mr. Gearan has never paid so much as a dime in property taxes. Funny how neither he nor HWS ever mention that when patting themselves on the back about "economic impact."

BTW, how's that federal investigation into HWS' inability to properly handle on-campus sexual assaults coming along?

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/al...-sexual-assault



DO you know that property taxes are not paid on that house? Good question for the city. I would guess that the house is part of his salary and would be taxed as it is used for personal use. Or at least a part of it.

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#1466166 --- 02/16/15 02:32 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Oogie]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Oogie
Originally Posted By: cwjga

Study pegs HWS economic impact at $244M

[...]
“From my point of view [...] Geneva is a great place to live..."


He can say that again! Although one of the wealthiest individuals living in the city, and residing in what can fairly be called a mansion, Mr. Gearan has never paid so much as a dime in property taxes. Funny how neither he nor HWS ever mention that when patting themselves on the back about "economic impact."

BTW, how's that federal investigation into HWS' inability to properly handle on-campus sexual assaults coming along?

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/al...-sexual-assault



BTW this is why all jurisdiction should go to a flat income tax and do away with property taxes. Will not happen because liberals don't want to give up all their tax breaks.

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#1466170 --- 02/16/15 04:31 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
Oogie Offline
Member

Registered: 05/06/11
Posts: 101
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: cwjga
DO you know that property taxes are not paid on that house? Good question for the city. I would guess that the house is part of his salary and would be taxed as it is used for personal use. Or at least a part of it.



Indeed I do know, and the information is readily available to the public. You can confirm it yourself by visiting the Ontario County Online Resources site (http://oncor.co.ontario.ny.us/oncor/). The site loads very slowly, but if you use the "Search Map" feature you can fairly easily zoom into Geneva to visualize the property upon which sits the mansion (parcel 104.19-2-1.100, also termed "Pulteney/Main/ St. Clair"). After selecting that property, clicking on "Estimated Taxes" at the top of the page reveals that no taxes of any type are paid on that property. Further digging reveals for previous years that taxes have never been paid.

It doesn't matter that Mr. Gearan uses the mansion for personal or partially personal use: he pays no local taxes for his residence, and he never has. Mr. Gearan, the city, and HWS all believe that is perfectly fair. As a person required to pay substantial county/school/city taxes on my property, I believe otherwise.

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#1466172 --- 02/16/15 05:13 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4460
Loc: USA
So the $244 million "contribution" isn't really a cash payment (like my property taxes) or even something that HWS actually paid to the city. It's a lot of estimates of what students and visitors spend, lumps in the labor costs of improvements to the college, salaries of people employed at the college, etc. By that measure, I should get credit for the home improvements I've made and cost of remodeling, payments to the guy that mows my lawn and clears the snow from my driveway and sidewalk, the $10,000 or so that I spend annually in local stores, gasoline, restaurants, etc. But I don't -- I still have to shell out money for property taxes and school taxes, not to mention exorbitant rates for water. So while HWS officials can smugly pat themselves on the back for the chump change $169,793 presented to the city, I'd like to see some REAL payments in lieu of taxes, somewhere in the neighborhood of $1 million a year if they really want to help the city balance its budget.

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#1466174 --- 02/16/15 05:38 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
Exactly, this was the major reason I sold all my property in Geneva, absorbent property taxes.
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#1466176 --- 02/16/15 07:09 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 186
So well put, LK, I couldn't agree more. It's a Hobart Big Steal and it's all done with a smiley face and sincere assurances that it is the best of all possible worlds for the peasants of Geneva. Reminds me of Downton Abbey.

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#1466188 --- 02/16/15 10:39 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: ruby2]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4460
Loc: USA
It should be added to this discussion that other schools have made much more substantial payments to the communities in which they live and thrive, Cornell being just one example. Those who cling to the argument that schools like HWS are exempt from paying property taxes under state law must recognize that those laws were enacted in a totally different time, long before schools like HWS became mega-million dollar business enterprises, and before even small schools like HWS had endowments of more than 100 million dollars (for the record, HWS' endowment in 2013 was reported to be in excess of $175 million, according to New America Foundation )

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#1466190 --- 02/17/15 06:10 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Oogie]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Oogie
Originally Posted By: cwjga
DO you know that property taxes are not paid on that house? Good question for the city. I would guess that the house is part of his salary and would be taxed as it is used for personal use. Or at least a part of it.



Indeed I do know, and the information is readily available to the public. You can confirm it yourself by visiting the Ontario County Online Resources site (http://oncor.co.ontario.ny.us/oncor/). The site loads very slowly, but if you use the "Search Map" feature you can fairly easily zoom into Geneva to visualize the property upon which sits the mansion (parcel 104.19-2-1.100, also termed "Pulteney/Main/ St. Clair"). After selecting that property, clicking on "Estimated Taxes" at the top of the page reveals that no taxes of any type are paid on that property. Further digging reveals for previous years that taxes have never been paid.

It doesn't matter that Mr. Gearan uses the mansion for personal or partially personal use: he pays no local taxes for his residence, and he never has. Mr. Gearan, the city, and HWS all believe that is perfectly fair. As a person required to pay substantial county/school/city taxes on my property, I believe otherwise.


Then the city is missing out. a private individual is using that house, property taxes as such should be paid. Even cassella pays property taxes to the local school district, in the form of an agreed to payment. Because it is a private company using public property.

Hobart should do no less. But if the city does not go after that, well----

Go to a flat income tax and problem is solved. Well as long as the city is not a sh-t hole that the employees of Hobart don't want to live in.

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#1466191 --- 02/17/15 07:18 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga

And yet Hobart contributes $244 million to the local economy.



care to explain College of the Senecas?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1466192 --- 02/17/15 07:44 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: Oogie
Originally Posted By: cwjga
DO you know that property taxes are not paid on that house? Good question for the city. I would guess that the house is part of his salary and would be taxed as it is used for personal use. Or at least a part of it.



Indeed I do know, and the information is readily available to the public. You can confirm it yourself by visiting the Ontario County Online Resources site (http://oncor.co.ontario.ny.us/oncor/). The site loads very slowly, but if you use the "Search Map" feature you can fairly easily zoom into Geneva to visualize the property upon which sits the mansion (parcel 104.19-2-1.100, also termed "Pulteney/Main/ St. Clair"). After selecting that property, clicking on "Estimated Taxes" at the top of the page reveals that no taxes of any type are paid on that property. Further digging reveals for previous years that taxes have never been paid.

It doesn't matter that Mr. Gearan uses the mansion for personal or partially personal use: he pays no local taxes for his residence, and he never has. Mr. Gearan, the city, and HWS all believe that is perfectly fair. As a person required to pay substantial county/school/city taxes on my property, I believe otherwise.


Then the city is missing out. a private individual is using that house, property taxes as such should be paid. Even cassella pays property taxes to the local school district, in the form of an agreed to payment. Because it is a private company using public property.

Hobart should do no less. But if the city does not go after that, well----

Go to a flat income tax and problem is solved. Well as long as the city is not a sh-t hole that the employees of Hobart don't want to live in.


How does our personal income tax liability equate to lowering our property tax which is based on the entire properties within said town/city/village. Again the problem doesn't stop just at Hobart-William Smith Colleges. Churches, Cornell Ext.(Experimental station) and associate properties are all exempt as well. When I left Geneva, the exemption rate was up to 55%. Again, you have a valid criticism but please do your homework before taking sole aim at just one target whereas there are many.As much as I hate to admit it, HWS colleges do add 40% to your local economy from August-May...ask any business, I did hoping to find some untruth to that fact.


http://www.tax.ny.gov/research/property/reports/exempt/10exrpt.htm
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#1466195 --- 02/17/15 08:13 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 186
Formermac, are you trying to say everybody is doing it? It looks like they sure are. But Hobart claims to put in close to a quarter of a billion (Billion) dollars into Geneva's economy. How can such a small population (we, the people of Geneva) absorb all that money without getting very very rich, which we are not. It doesn't make sense. Was that figure offset by expenses city acquires.

This is deep deep, too deep for me. But it doesn't make sense. Do we know what those other Gamers claim they contribute? Cornell for instance, the Hospital. What a racket. If they're all bringing in the same for us, why we must be getting close to $2 Billion in benefits! But we're not, or very little is trickling down.

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#1466198 --- 02/17/15 08:33 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: ruby2]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
What I am saying, how can any entity sustain itself when the very policies, in this case property taxes but now becomes an exemption due to the hopeful advantages that seldom materialize.Other entity being exempt are regulated by State and Federal laws. Hobart has taken unfair advantage of this law by buying up previously privately owned property but so has other entities. Two of the nicest homes on Maxwell Ave. a few years back were owned by a local church & the experimental station....tax exempt. A remedy may call for State and Federal exemption rules to be change because of the damages being realized not just for Geneva but all across the country.



http://www.osc.state.ny.us/localgov/pubs/research/propertytax_exemptions.pdf
_________________________
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#1466199 --- 02/17/15 08:39 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
.As much as I hate to admit it, HWS colleges do add 40% to your local economy from August-May


and how much does HWS take out of the local economy?
one property HWS has off the tax rolls has an assessment of nearly $5 million
care to tell us how much the taxes would be on that one property?
that is only one property out of the 200+ acres they have off the tax rolls
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1466202 --- 02/17/15 08:45 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: cwjga
DO you know that property taxes are not paid on that house? Good question for the city. I would guess that the house is part of his salary and would be taxed as it is used for personal use. Or at least a part of it.


Then the city is missing out. a private individual is using that house, property taxes as such should be paid. Even cassella pays property taxes to the local school district, in the form of an agreed to payment. Because it is a private company using public property.



charge him a room tax
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1466204 --- 02/17/15 08:54 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Formermac
.As much as I hate to admit it, HWS colleges do add 40% to your local economy from August-May


and how much does HWS take out of the local economy?
one property HWS has off the tax rolls has an assessment of nearly $5 million
care to tell us how much the taxes would be on that one property?
that is only one property out of the 200+ acres they have off the tax rolls


Good question Blue, I did my homework and did some research in regard to the advantages and disadvantages, thus my reservation at total criticism. Maybe you'll benefit by taking the stance of getting your ducks in a row and research, outlandish nonsense don't make things so because you conceive it in your mentality.
_________________________
I know how to bring out the buffoonery of A Trump supporter.State Fact

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#1466207 --- 02/17/15 09:12 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
As much as I hate to admit it, HWS colleges do add 40% to your local economy from August-May


and what is the dollar amount?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1466210 --- 02/17/15 09:25 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 186
Beware those who follow the law (Hobart etc) , but lack a moral sense of right and wrong. These men (usually) sit in the front row at church. They see the injustice of their greed, but they follow the law as long as it favors them.

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#1466213 --- 02/17/15 09:28 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
I see that we are as usual getting into this nonsensical rhetoric which I am not going to engage my self in being that you have the same resources and hopefully intellect to research for yourself but we all know that research has the tendency to dispel misconceptions, lies, falsehood and half truths. Now heres a list of people I've talked to when I lived in Geneva.

Coles Muffler
Geneva Foreign and Sports
Every Gas Sation
Frank Wheeler Auto Repair
Mom burger Deli
Daves Auto
Nonna's Restaurant
Ramada Hotel
Hampton Hotel
Wegmans
Tops
Walmart
BJs
JMarsh Auto
Kost Tires
Denny's
Ling Lings Restaurant
Geneva on The lake
Belhurst Castle
Eddy Obriane
Marks Pizza
Uncle Joes
Club 86
Red Dove
Belhurst Castle

I can emphatically state that I've talked at some time or other over the years as to how much business comes from college students and their parents. Now it's up to you to become somewhat nosy in ascertaining any of these establishments personal revenue. wink





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#1466216 --- 02/17/15 09:52 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Formermac]
Formermac Offline
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Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
I'm told that Geneva's population is around 13,000 local residents.
This link states that HWS colleges adds a sizable amount of people to the mix. Do we assume that these people buy & rent locally along with the locals?

https://www.cappex.com/colleges/Hobart-William-Smith-Colleges
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#1466223 --- 02/17/15 10:20 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
Now heres a list of people I've talked to when I lived in Geneva.

Coles Muffler
Geneva Foreign and Sports
Every Gas Sation
Frank Wheeler Auto Repair
Mom burger Deli
Daves Auto
Nonna's Restaurant
Ramada Hotel
Hampton Hotel
Wegmans
Tops
Walmart
BJs
JMarsh Auto
Kost Tires
Denny's
Ling Lings Restaurant
Geneva on The lake
Belhurst Castle
Eddy Obriane
Marks Pizza
Uncle Joes
Club 86
Red Dove
Belhurst Castle


that does not look like a list of people

we just need the dollar amount of 40% more money into the local economy as you stated in your pior post
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#1466224 --- 02/17/15 10:21 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
As much as I hate to admit it, HWS colleges do add 40% to your local economy from August-May


and what is the dollar amount?
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#1466226 --- 02/17/15 10:26 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
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Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Formermac
As much as I hate to admit it, HWS colleges do add 40% to your local economy from August-May


and what is the dollar amount?



I'll repeat what I've stated in the 401K topic to you.


Am I assuming your lack of education? yeah! because the intellect and mannerism defies any standards garnered by most educated individuals. No disrespect, I see little in regard to you acting like an adult.
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#1466227 --- 02/17/15 10:28 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
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Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
As much as I hate to admit it, HWS colleges do add 40% to your local economy from August-May



you have to take the number that you say they add to the local economy then subtract the amount that they extract from the local economy and that is the true amount

see 55% poverty in geneva
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#1466228 --- 02/17/15 10:30 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
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Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Formermac
As much as I hate to admit it, HWS colleges do add 40% to your local economy from August-May



you have to take the number that you say they add to the local economy then subtract the amount that they extract from the local economy and that is the true amount

see 55% poverty in geneva




????????????????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom
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#1466229 --- 02/17/15 10:30 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Formermac
As much as I hate to admit it, HWS colleges do add 40% to your local economy from August-May


and what is the dollar amount?



I'll repeat what I've stated in the 401K topic to you.


Am I assuming your lack of education? yeah! because the intellect and mannerism defies any standards garnered by most educated individuals. No disrespect, I see little in regard to you acting like an adult.


you stated 40% influx from HWS but you fail to back it up with any numbers

here is a number 55% poverty in geneva
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#1466230 --- 02/17/15 10:34 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
Now heres a list of people I've talked to when I lived in Geneva.


and the reason you moved out of geneva...
you stated you moved due to the high taxes

why are there high taxes...

larging in part to the 70% tax exempt like HWS
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#1466231 --- 02/17/15 10:37 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
As much as I hate to admit it, HWS colleges do add 40% to your local economy from August-May


did you speak with the 55% at the poverty level?
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#1466233 --- 02/17/15 10:49 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
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Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Formermac
Now heres a list of people I've talked to when I lived in Geneva.


and the reason you moved out of geneva...
you stated you moved due to the high taxes

why are there high taxes...

larging in part to the 70% tax exempt like HWS




Nope, I sold 3 properties that I owned in Geneva while living in Interlaken NY due to the fact that I built a house in Cranberry PA. after retiring and going wholly as a license electrical business. Now for you edification, I can and will respond to questions when they are asked in a manner sounding more intelligent than a 4 year old in a grocery store begging for candy.
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#1466234 --- 02/17/15 10:51 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
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Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4460
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Formermac
As much as I hate to admit it, HWS colleges do add 40% to your local economy from August-May


did you speak with the 55% at the poverty level?
Where did you come up with 55%, BZ?

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#1466237 --- 02/17/15 10:56 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.
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#1466238 --- 02/17/15 10:58 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 186
It's nice to have large businesses employing people in Geneva, but when those businesses (Hobart, Cornell, etc) take or drain away more than they give then what's the point. Not all large companies (businesses) do that. We should be thriving with all these large enterprises here and we are not.

Furtheermore, with all the tax exempt churches in Geneva, we should have way more community outreach from the faithful to the poor. A few more soup kitchens, some free winter clothes , looking after the elderly, a warm place to sit in winter other than going to the library for respite. The list is endless.

The clergy need to get out and mingle more with the needy. There are quite a few elitest churches here serving only the elite.

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#1466240 --- 02/17/15 11:04 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
I can and will respond to questions when they are asked in a manner sounding more intelligent than a 4 year old in a grocery store begging for candy.


Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Formermac
As much as I hate to admit it, HWS colleges do add 40% to your local economy from August-May


and what is the dollar amount?


so sorry that asking for a dollar amount to a percentage that you offered relating to HWS was difficult for you to expand upon

have a wonderful day
smile
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#1466242 --- 02/17/15 11:10 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
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Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
Your questions can be easily answer Blue but the problem......when you ask for the answer to say 24 plus 56, it's difficult to respond when you want it in terms not related to numbers.....I always have great days. laugh
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#1466243 --- 02/17/15 11:17 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
if hobart was not part of geneva

would the taxes be half their current amount?

would all the properties along south main street along the lake be owner occupied and be paying their share of the (lower) taxes?

would the plaza on hamilton be twice as long with more stores/more employees and paying more taxes?

would wegmans be on the other side of hamilton street where HWS is ? would wegmans be twice as large? employing more people? paying more taxes?

would lowes/home depot be located on the land along hamilton street that HWS currently occupies? and would they be paying taxes / employing more people and adding to the local economy?

would the 200 acres that HWS occupies have residential homes paying their share of the taxes?

would geneva get more from the county with a higher percentage of the propertis not exempt?

sounds like victor, ny ... but geneva has the lake
whistle
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#1466246 --- 02/17/15 11:30 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
Question Blue, does the City of Geneva residential home owners still pay County Taxes. Ask your country legislatures what tax advantages have you receive for the big ski slope being created in Flint NY along with the upgrade the City of Geneva made to their water treatment plant due to formerly processing liquid waste from the landfill. Every major road in Ontario County had to be repaired due to the constant traffic created by large trucks bringing other state's trash to your pristine landscape. How many water wells were contaminated due to the run off from the waste? What are the health issues related to all the smell and underground water table being contaminated? Is this a good trade off? Guess who's paying for all these upgrades....sure isn't Casella. crazy
BTW, the hundreds of jobs created must help the local economy besides the tax abatements promised.
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#1466252 --- 02/17/15 12:17 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 186
..... clearly we are being exploited every which way ...

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#1467106 --- 03/05/15 09:11 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.



has HWS endowment reached $200 million?
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#1467109 --- 03/05/15 09:41 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4460
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone

has HWS endowment reached $200 million?

If not, they are awfully close to that based on previous years...

2012 figure was $161,338,000 (down about $13 million from 2011)
2013 figure was $181,787,616 according to US News & World Report. If growth from 2013 to 2015 was about half of the 2013-14 growth, they should be right around $200 million. Enough to buy that land next to the chicken coop that you're so worried about.

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#1467266 --- 03/08/15 12:29 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
Originally Posted By: bluezone

has HWS endowment reached $200 million?

If not, they are awfully close to that based on previous years...

2012 figure was $161,338,000 (down about $13 million from 2011)
2013 figure was $181,787,616 according to US News & World Report. If growth from 2013 to 2015 was about half of the 2013-14 growth, they should be right around $200 million.


and yet they can not offer to help pay half the cost to repair the street next to the college they use
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#1467287 --- 03/09/15 10:04 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4460
Loc: USA
Well! We agree on something at last! Regarding the poor mouth attitude of HWS, see definition of Chutzpah

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#1467288 --- 03/09/15 10:04 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
it would be interesting to see how much money the performance center will bring in for HWS

odds that hws will share some of the money with the local community

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#1468190 --- 03/28/15 11:51 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.


wonder if HWS will offer a summer breakfast/lunch program for the students in West and North street schools?

is there any other community in Ontario County that is part of the 'Community Eligibility Program'?

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#1468197 --- 03/28/15 01:40 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.


wonder if HWS will offer a summer breakfast/lunch program for the students in West and North street schools?

is there any other community in Ontario County that is part of the 'Community Eligibility Program'?

"If you don't want your tax dollars to help the poor, then stop saying that you want a country based on Christian values. Because you don't!"
-John Fugelsang
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#1468216 --- 03/28/15 07:03 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 186
With so many tax exempt organizations in Geneva, most of them religious, Christian, there should be much, much more outreach into the community toward poor, toward all children, and the elderly. But what do you have nothing but a lot of God talk and Christian love talk and very little action. Lazy uninspired Christians. All talk, very little walk. Talk, talk, talk and serving only their own in so many cases and doing as little as possible there as well. Just talk.

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#1468218 --- 03/28/15 07:14 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 186
... Oh, and furthermore it's easy to find someone willing to preach the gospel to you, but difficult to find help when you need it. And the city is filled with judgemental holy holies looking to criticize and preach to you. All talk, just a lot of talk.

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#1468239 --- 03/29/15 12:04 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: ruby2]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: ruby2
... Oh, and furthermore it's easy to find someone willing to preach the gospel to you, but difficult to find help when you need it. And the city is filled with judgemental holy holies looking to criticize and preach to you. All talk, just a lot of talk.

To build on what you've said, ruby2...It's easy to find someone willing to preach the gospel, but harder to find someone who also lives by its principles.
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#1478949 --- 11/24/15 09:29 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.



HWS seems to find funds to improve on their campus while ignoring the rest of the community
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#1478960 --- 11/24/15 12:00 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4460
Loc: USA
Exactly what do you suggest that HWS should do to ease the financial problems of less fortunate residents and families and in Geneva? Some form of direct assistance?

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#1479007 --- 11/25/15 02:41 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1705
Loc: New York, Seneca
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: cwjga
And yet Hobart contributes $244 million to the local economy.


do you have a break down of where in geneva that money went?


beer and pot most likely
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#1479010 --- 11/25/15 04:01 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Hello_Governer]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY
http://www.hws.edu/dailyupdate/NewsDetails.aspx?aid=18442

Even if it is only half, it is substantial.

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#1479011 --- 11/25/15 04:15 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4460
Loc: USA
Gee. A press release from HWS that says HWS contributes to the local economy. shocked

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#1479054 --- 11/27/15 01:38 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
pingu Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 673
Loc: Right here.
Originally Posted By: cwjga
http://www.hws.edu/dailyupdate/NewsDetails.aspx?aid=18442

Even if it is only half, it is substantial.


What a bunch of self-serving propaganda in that piece. By this article I am supposed to swallow the rationale of any money spent should be counted towards helping Geneva. HWS says: Okay, I paid my employees that I have to do anyway or they will leave, spent a bunch of money buying property and getting it off the tax roles, spent a lot more money to build the campus buildings and use architects, engineers and contractors that don't live here, I'll add in the money I spent on my own staff and vendors that also don't live here or contribute anything to the city or town but we're contributing so much to the local economy.

Anytime the City has tried to work with HWS on developing any sort of real community based improvement and cooperative effort HWS has just dragged its feet and chosen to ignore it or begrudgingly done the very least it had to. Let's have three cheers for all the HWS has done for this area!

That BS charter that allows them to be tax-exempt is for a seminary college, you know, religious based education. That was given in what, 1843 or somewhere around that time. How about an audit to see if they still comply with any sort of definition of religious or theologian exemption?

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#1479063 --- 11/28/15 05:06 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 339
Let's not forget the support they give the local economy buying drugs from the likes of Willie Smallwood. Think he lived on Pulteney becuas he liked the scenery? he wanted to be close to his customer base at Snowbart.

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#1479075 --- 11/28/15 09:04 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
IHHSG Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 113
Loc: 14456
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Let's not forget the support they give the local economy buying drugs from the likes of Willie Smallwood. Think he lived on Pulteney becuas he liked the scenery? he wanted to be close to his customer base at Snowbart.


Let's not kid ourselves. HWS students are trafficking plenty of drugs at the college, and students don't need to leave the cozy confines of the campus to get an 8 ball (or more).

Best of all, if they get busted, no matter the amount, campus security simply confiscates the drugs and calls the kids' parents. No pesky police have to be involved. It's been happening for years.

Willie Smallwood? SMALL POTATOES compared to what the HWS student body is moving on that campus.

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#1481221 --- 01/29/16 03:28 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: pingu]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pingu
Anytime the City has tried to work with HWS on developing any sort of real community based improvement and cooperative effort HWS has just dragged its feet and chosen to ignore it or begrudgingly done the very least it had to. Let's have three cheers for all the HWS has done for this area!

That BS charter that allows them to be tax-exempt is for a seminary college, you know, religious based education. That was given in what, 1843 or somewhere around that time. How about an audit to see if they still comply with any sort of definition of religious or theologian exemption?


HWS has taken about $6 million of homes off the tax rolls just on south main street alone

guess how much property HWS has taken off the tax rolls with the 200 acres they own?

maybe the HWS president can explain how much tax money is lost each year just by the $6 million of south main street homes that HWS has taken off the tax rolls

or the $6 million that is not taxed that should be going to the local schools each year

or the $6 million of non-taxable property that will not be included when the county passes out the share of sales taxes each year

when HWS takes property of the tax rolls it is a three fold negative effect

the city taxpayers loss property taxes, the school loses tax money and the share of sales taxes from the county is greatly reduced each year

maybe the new HWS 'performance' center should be dedicated to the city of geneva taxpayers and not the HWS president whistle

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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1481393 --- 02/02/16 10:08 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Here's Johnny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 854
Loc: New York
The development of the Performance Center confirms that Hobart cares more about attracting paying students than providing graduates with a viable career path. As long as there are wanna be performers it matters little if they succeed in the real world. College as a camp for late adolescents. Shame.

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#1481572 --- 02/10/16 05:04 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
ibepokenmore Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 487
Loc: waterloo
maybe they meant 244.00?
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#1481598 --- 02/11/16 03:09 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Here's Johnny]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Here's Johnny
The development of the Performance Center confirms that Hobart cares more about attracting paying students than providing graduates with a viable career path. As long as there are wanna be performers it matters little if they succeed in the real world. College as a camp for late adolescents. Shame.

Define "Real World"... Auto mechanic, Pizza Cook? Who decides, YOU??? crazy

False Assumptions, False Choices All.

Virtually every past civilization in history is revered almost exclusively by their arts, sciences and humanities. Not the other way around. In fact, the very pinnacle of human existence is marked and immortalized by them. Certainly not by those forces which would stand in their way.

THAT is the "real" world.
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#1487410 --- 07/25/16 11:42 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
believe that HWS president was happy that geneva got the $10 million from cuomo

odd ain't it

HWS sued the city over the benefits assessment district

the benefits assessment district was to try to have the tax exempt properties pay a share of the city operating costs

it seems that if the benefits assessment district were in affect then the city would have seen more than $10 million over the years when it would have started

must be the president of HWS would rather have the taxpayers shoulder all the costs while HWS builds a $25 million performance center

wonder if the president of HWS knows about the 25% POVERTY rate in the city of geneva?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1488032 --- 08/10/16 12:37 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
HWS President Mark Gearan


Dear Mr Gearan

if 30% of your students were required to pay for the remaining 70% of students costs would the 30% continue to stay at your college or would they look at another college where they only paid their share?

would the new enrollment of the 30% 'payall' students decline also?

must be why when middle income families have a choice to live in the city of geneva or move elsewhere - they choose elsewhere
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1488479 --- 08/19/16 06:22 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
HWS President Mark Gearan


Quote:
Gearan to leave HWS


Quote:
he will have served for 18 years, leading HWS through a period of unprecedented growth, as well as a time of far greater civic engagement for the school - much of it led by Gearan himself



the city of geneva also saw an unprecedented amount of growth during the same time period

POVERTY RATE OF NEARLY 25%

does that work out to be just over a 1% growth in poverty each year for the past 18 years?

odd

that when the city wanted to have the tax exempt properties (nearly 70%) pay a share of the city costs it was HWS that lead the way to sue the city to stop the benefits assessment plan

must be the money was better used to build a $25 million structure in your name whistle
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#1488678 --- 08/22/16 08:38 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Downeaster63 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/13
Posts: 28
Loc: Geneva,NY
I am hopeful that the powers-that-be at HWS practice some of the diversity that they preach and appoint a woman or person of color (or a combination of both) to the position of President of the colleges. After all, William Smith is half of the college population over there, and there are many young men and women of color attending. The time is right - let's hope the opportunity isn't squandered.

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#1489361 --- 09/07/16 10:53 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: pingu]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pingu
Anytime the City has tried to work with HWS on developing any sort of real community based improvement and cooperative effort HWS has just dragged its feet and chosen to ignore it or begrudgingly done the very least it had to. !

That BS charter that allows them to be tax-exempt is for a seminary college, you know, religious based education. That was given in what, 1843 or somewhere around that time. How about an audit to see if they still comply with any sort of definition of religious or theologian exemption?


it would be interesting to see how much the city taxpayers would benefit if HWS did pay their share of the taxes
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1489364 --- 09/08/16 04:53 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 339
It would be even more interesting if we extended this approach to all non-profits: churches, daycares, the hospital, service organizations like K of C, and the Housing Authority.

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#1489377 --- 09/08/16 09:46 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
FLaker Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 88
Loc: Finger Lakes
The colleges are not to blame for the increased rate of poverty in Geneva. Possibly the higher tax rate, but definitely not the poverty. What would Geneva look like without the colleges? It would likely be a pretty depressing picture.

That said, although the NYS Constitution and NYS tax law grant nonprofit educational institutions tax exempt status, the colleges probably should contribute more to basic infrastructure projects within the city.

The city will be undertaking the paving of Pulteney Street between Hamilton and St. Clair. The colleges are the major and almost exclusive beneficiary of that stretch of roadway. However, is there a single taxable property over there? I understand the colleges offered to buy the property from the city, but it was met opposition from the public. Nevertheless, it would be nice to see the colleges step up and contribute to the repaving project. It's not a requirement under NY law, but it seems like the decent thing to do.

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#1489403 --- 09/08/16 07:52 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
It would be even more interesting if we extended this approach to all non-profits: churches, daycares, the hospital, service organizations like K of C, and the Housing Authority.


true
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#1489405 --- 09/08/16 08:30 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: FLaker]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: FLaker
The colleges are not to blame for the increased rate of poverty in Geneva. Possibly the higher tax rate, but definitely not the poverty.


local newspaper had an article relating to a study that showed middle income home buyers chose to locate out of the city when looking for a home to buy

a depressed housing market allows investors to buy homes cheap and then rent out the homes until the homes are no longer habitable

the investor walks away from the home after making their profits and then the city is left to tear down the home further putting downward pressure on home values and taking more properties (value) off the tax rolls

when the home is tore down then the city loses property taxes, sales taxes % from the county, water/sewer fees, spending power without a family living in that home...

homes near the college that are student housing create neighborhoods where families do not want to buy a home or live in that area to raise their children

further depressing the home values in those areas

Originally Posted By: FLaker
What would Geneva look like without the colleges?


canandaigua, victor, farmington...

hws spent the last 18 years expanding their campus and taking large portions off the tax rolls

look back 20 years ago and see how the tax rates were much lower compared to the overall budget

Originally Posted By: FLaker
the colleges probably should contribute more to basic infrastructure projects within the city.


true


Originally Posted By: FLaker
The city will be undertaking the paving of Pulteney Street between Hamilton and St. Clair. The colleges are the major and almost exclusive beneficiary of that stretch of roadway.


paving, new sidewalks, water, sewer and other major upgrades
$9 million to be bonded out for

hws should pay to widen the street for parking on both sides

parking on the east side of south main should be eliminated for college use and be moved to the new wider pulteney st

students crossing on south main st to get to their parked cars on the east side of the street creates a major safety issue with the large volume of traffic in that area and a heavy presence of large trucks

Originally Posted By: FLaker
I understand the colleges offered to buy the property from the city


believe the newspaper stated hws would get a grant if the city turned over ownership to hws

little money out of hws pocket

Originally Posted By: FLaker
Nevertheless, it would be nice to see the colleges step up and contribute to the repaving project.


believe hws saved $2 million on interest for a $40 million loan they financed when 'partnered' with the city to get hws a lower interest rate

have hws use the $2 million in savings to help with the $9 million street upgrade

Originally Posted By: FLaker
it seems like the decent thing to do.


president gearan has had 18 years to do the decent thing and assist the city/taxpayers

how about the tax exempt properties pay for all city services for the next 18 years and see if it turns around the city for the better grin

homeowners would have money to improve their homes, spent at local businesses, home values would increase and middle income buyers would move back into the city
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#1495210 --- 02/10/17 11:19 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: FLaker]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: FLaker
That said, although the NYS Constitution and NYS tax law grant nonprofit educational institutions tax exempt status, the colleges probably should contribute more to basic infrastructure projects within the city.


if the 70% tax exempt properties made 'donations' equal to what they would pay in taxes then that would lower the taxes for the homeowners
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#1495211 --- 02/10/17 11:33 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pingu
Anytime the City has tried to work with HWS on developing any sort of real community based improvement and cooperative effort HWS has just dragged its feet and chosen to ignore it or begrudgingly done the very least it had to. !

That BS charter that allows them to be tax-exempt is for a seminary college, you know, religious based education. That was given in what, 1843 or somewhere around that time. How about an audit to see if they still comply with any sort of definition of religious or theologian exemption?


if HWS paid their share along with the other tax exempts thru the benefits assessment district then the city would have collected over $15 million over the years

HWS threatened to sue the city over the benefits assessment district

and people are happy NYS gave the city a one time $10 million

some of the money from the $10 million from NYS should be used to find a method to collect 'donations' every year from the tax exempts
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#1495729 --- 02/24/17 09:52 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Oogie]
Geneva_grl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 1313
Loc: G-Town
All of the Presidents of HWS have lived in that house. Quit targeting President Gearan. He and his wife have done much for this community.

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#1495797 --- 02/25/17 04:56 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Geneva_grl]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Geneva_grl
All of the Presidents of HWS have lived in that house. Quit targeting President Gearan. He and his wife have done much for this community.


is it true that during his time at HWS that $6 million worth of property on south main street alone has been taken OFF the tax rolls when the college purchased those properties?

could this be one of the reasons why geneva has the highest poverty rate in all of ontario county?
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#1495837 --- 02/26/17 11:17 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Geneva_grl]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Geneva_grl
All of the Presidents of HWS have lived in that house. Quit targeting President Gearan. He and his wife have done much for this community.


is it true that he/hws wanted to sue the city of geneva for trying to bring forth the benefits assessment district that would give relief to the over taxed homeowners in the city of geneva all while planning a $25 million performance center in his name?

Quote:

County of Ontario
Municipality Tax Rate
Per $1000 AV



City of Canandaigua 6.31
City of Geneva 18.29
Town of Canandaigua 1.15
Town of Victor 0.72
Village of Victor 4.23



strange that HWS has a new $25 million performance center but just across the street you have children living in poverty

explain the logic in that?
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#1495896 --- 02/27/17 08:14 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Jeff Peters Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 1005
Loc: Geneva
HWS was not going to sue, but they were going to fight it in court. And they were joined by every church and most of the not-for-profits in the city. The hospital hired its own lawyers.

What killed the plan you were talking about was the fact that not all homeowners would have gotten a lower tax rate. As an example, anyone living on a corner lot would have seen their taxes go up. At least a couple of Council members said that unless every home owner paid less in tax, they would not vote for the benefit assessment plan.

To eliminate poverty, you need jobs.

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#1495904 --- 02/28/17 08:28 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
DeReRustica Offline
Member

Registered: 03/15/04
Posts: 300
Loc: Boondox, Seneca Co.
The high taxes in the city are due to the city providing expensive services to Town of Geneva residents, but not getting the tax revenue to cover the costs.

One solution would be to dissolve the city and combine it into the town. Lyons and Seneca Falls did it, Rushville is working on it. The state is offering big incentives to consolidate government functions. Every small-government proponent should be all over this idea.

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#1496103 --- 03/03/17 07:40 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Jeff Peters]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
HWS was not going to sue, but they were going to fight it in court.


HWS was resistant to all property owners paying their fair share of city services?
how honorable of HWS...

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
And they were joined by every church and most of the not-for-profits in the city. The hospital hired its own lawyers.


and there is a 25% poverty rate in the city of geneva
must be all those entities do not realize that fact

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
What killed the plan you were talking about


are you suggesting that resistance from HWS and the other 60% tax exempt entities did not 'kill' the plan?

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
What killed the plan you were talking about was the fact that not all homeowners would have gotten a lower tax rate. As an example, anyone living on a corner lot would have seen their taxes go up.


taxes would have gone down for all taxpaying homeowners

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
At least a couple of Council members said that unless every home owner paid less in tax, they would not vote for the benefit assessment plan.


do you agree with that flawed theory?

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
To eliminate poverty, you need jobs.


and how many businesses want to locate in a city where nearly 70% of the properties are off the tax rolls?

Quote:
County of Ontario
Municipality Tax Rate
Per $1000 AV

City of Canandaigua 6.31
City of Geneva 18.29
Town of Canandaigua 1.15
Town of Victor 0.72
Village of Victor 4.23

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#1496544 --- 03/12/17 04:08 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
At least a couple of Council members said that unless every home owner paid less in tax, they would not vote for the benefit assessment plan.


so lets see if we understand why a 'couple of council members' voted it down

if all property owners (100%) pay into the city budget then ALL the current non tax exempt taxpayers (about 30%) taxes would go DOWN

not sure why the taxes would go up for the (about 30%) current non tax exempt property homeowners if ALL (100%) property owners paid into the city budget

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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496547 --- 03/12/17 04:28 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
What killed the plan you were talking about was the fact that not all homeowners would have gotten a lower tax rate.


the taxes would have gone down for all current property owners
their benefits assessment amount would have been applied


Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
As an example, anyone living on a corner lot would have seen their taxes go up.


their taxes would have gone down

their benefits assessment may have been higher compared to a property owner not on a corner lot

but there is a simple solution -

either

the frontage on the corner lot could have the full benefits asseessment applied
and the side street portion of the corner lot could have had a lower benefits assessment applied - at 80%, 70%, 60% or 50%... of the benefits assessment

or

the total frontage and side street portion could be totaled and calculated not at 100% of the benefits assessment but at a lower rate - 90%, 80%, 70%...

a simple fix that would have allowed ALL property owners to share the cost of city services
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496576 --- 03/13/17 05:51 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Jeff Peters Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 1005
Loc: Geneva
The only service I know the City supplies to the Town is that some (not all) Town residents do get city water. The agreement is decades old and difference in rates is being done away with. Seneca Falls and Lyons were Villages and Geneva is a City, it is much more complicated to dissolve a City.

HWS was worried about paying a "street benefit". They own property on South Main, Pultney, Hamilton and St. Clare and that is a lot of frontage. But it was not only HWS, the Station, Geneva General, and every not-for-profit was involved and they did not want this charge either. The pastors of both the Roman Catholic and Presbyterian churches made appearances in front of Council in opposition and others contacted their own Council members. Some of them actually said that they would have to withdraw from community programs or even close their doors if this went through.

There were various rates discussed. One for single family owner occupied, one for multiple family residences, corner properties getting a "discount" on one of the street fronts, and a special rate for other not-for-profits. And what about HWS and their corner properties? They had to be included or the district would be illegal.

All of this became too complicated to be workable.

Some property owners would have paid more under this plan. This is not theoretical as specific properties were actually identified.

Here is an example I knew of: an elderly couple living in a multiple family residence on a corner lot, one side of which was a double lot. They did not have the rental unit rented, but they were still listed as multiple family on the tax rolls. Because of their age, military service, etc. they were taxed at less than assessed value, but they would have gone away with the benefit district.

Some members of the Council said they would support this benefit district only if every one's taxes decreased and that was not going to happen, but in the end it was the complexity of trying to figure out who what pay which rates that defeated this plan.

I hope this answers some of the questions.

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#1496586 --- 03/14/17 09:29 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Jeff Peters]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
Here is an example I knew of: an elderly couple living in a multiple family residence on a corner lot, one side of which was a double lot. They did not have the rental unit rented, but they were still listed as multiple family on the tax rolls. Because of their age, military service, etc. they were taxed at less than assessed value, but they would have gone away with the benefit district.


so the city dropped the plan because one home owner living in a multi family did want to rent out their home... sound illogical whistle

options

1) rent out the other half of the home to pay for their benefits assessment - one or two months worth of rent would have paid for their benefits assessment and the other 10 months of rent would have been going into their pockets as profit

2) sell the home and move to a single family home not on a corner lot
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#1496591 --- 03/14/17 09:46 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Jeff Peters]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
HWS was worried about paying a "street benefit". They own property on South Main, Pultney, Hamilton and St. Clare and that is a lot of frontage.


but yet they spent $25 million for a performance center, spent millions to build their football field / stadium / athletic center, spent millions buying taxable properties on south main street, hamilton street, st. clair and taking them off the tax rolls, spent a large sum of money to build a 10 foot tall wrought iron fence with large brick colums (every 10 feet) around the perimeter of their campus

have hws sell those properties they have concerns with and put them back on the tax rolls if their $200 million endowment is in such financial crisis

Note - 25% poverty rate in the city of geneva
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#1496593 --- 03/14/17 10:02 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA

Originally Posted By: Libertas
Per the Democrat and Chronicle...

"White Plains residents pay the highest total property taxes per capita among cities in New York, while Binghamton has the highest effective property-tax rate in the state, a review today found.

Albany had the highest effective property-tax rate — which is the total raised through property taxes divided by adjusted full value of property — among large cities at 1.22 percent. Overall among cities, Binghamton led the pack at 2.51 percent, the Empire Center for State Policy found.

Among cities, White Plains residents paid the highest per capita taxes at $1,898, and the Westchester County city also had the highest per capita spending at $3,716.

Rye ranked second in property taxes per capita at $1,500 and Yonkers ranked third at $1,381. They are all in Westchester, which has the highest property taxes in the nation. The city of Rochester ranked eight at $2,675 per capita, the group said.

Geneva, Ontario County, had the highest per capita debt at $3,318.

The group calculated the rates through its Benchmarking New York online tool.

“New Yorkers are paying some of the highest property taxes in the country, and Benchmarking New York is a powerful tool that lets them see exactly how their taxes compare to those in other communities,” said Tim Hoefer, executive director of the conservative, Albany-based group.

It found that Lewis County in northern New York had the highest expenditure among counties in New York, at $4,659 per capita. Westchester ranked fourth at $2,670, while Broome County ranked fifth at $2,655.

The small Adirondacks town of Newcomb had the highest expenditure and taxes per capita among New York towns. Among villages, the Fire Island village of Saltaire had the highest expenditures and taxes per capita — a whopping $58,566 per home owner, which totals about 37 year-round residents."


Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496595 --- 03/14/17 10:20 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Jeff Peters]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
HWS was worried about paying a "street benefit". They own property on South Main, Pultney, Hamilton and St. Clare and that is a lot of frontage.


HWS is worried about a 'street benefit'

the local newspaper had an article that HWS has had numerous calls PER DAY for false fire alarms because HWS does not want to put in a system to root out the false alarm calls

how about the city charge HWS a $20,000 charge PER false alarm calls

a false alarm call puts the fire/emergency responders at risk, it puts at risk ACTUAL emergencies situtations that should be handled over a false alarm from HWS

10 false alarms per day from HWS at $20,000 per call multiplied by 365 days in year = $73,000,000

10 x $20,000 X 365 = $73,000,000

the city could give HWS a volume discount whistle and only charge them for half or $36,500,00

that pays for the yearly city budget with a sizable surplus

or HWS could spend some money to correct their false alarm problems and it would save the city money and not put emergency responders at risk
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496753 --- 03/18/17 11:56 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Geneva_grl]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Geneva_grl
Quit targeting President Gearan. He and his wife have done much for this community.


howz about this idea

have hws president gearan set up a small fire station on hws campus

when ever there is an emergency on hws campus their fire station will be the first responder

the response time will be almost immediate because they will be located on campus and not the other side of the city like the current fire stations

the city fire station response time is greatly reduced because they have to tend with traffic either on main/south main or pulteney street - both high traffic streets --- the traffic problems are a result of hws not providing enough parking for their staff and students (whoda thunk whistle)


if the hws fire department needs assistance after arriving on a call then the hws 'fire chief' can call to the city with details

this would eliminate false alarms by hws

this would allow the city responders to deal with actual emergencies for taxpayers and not waste their time with hws false alarms

the city would not be putting their staff at risk with hws false alarms

savings on gas, wear and tear on city vehicles

hws could pay for their own fire staff, their fire trucks, their equipment, their building, their pensions, their healthcare, their training, their 911 call center... and the city would save money

all city councel members should move forward with this idea as it will save city taxpayers money
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1496788 --- 03/19/17 02:29 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Formermac
As much as I hate to admit it, HWS colleges do add 40% to your local economy from August-May

did you speak with the 55% at the poverty level?
Where did you come up with 55%, BZ?

He's had the facts categorically proven to him, time, and time again, that it is NOT 55%.

Misrepresenting the actual facts simply plays to his ridiculously fallacious narrative.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1496922 --- 03/22/17 09:04 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.



_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1497087 --- 03/28/17 07:20 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Geneva_grl
Quit targeting President Gearan. He and his wife have done much for this community.



herez an idea

the geneva school district is starting to spend $30 million to replace the sports fields

rather then spend the $30 million just have hws let the local school use their sports fields and stadium

the cost to bus the students over to hws during the year for sports should be only about $20,000 or less per year

if the $30 million is divided over 30 years than that would be about $1 million per year for the cost of the 'newer' fields

the local school district would save around $980,000 per year ($1 million - $20,000 bus costs = $980,000 savings per year to the local school) by not spending the $30 million for the 'newer' fields

hws has more than enough sports fields to share

geneva 2020 is not just about books but also could be about sports improvement by hws shairing their fields

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#1497298 --- 04/02/17 09:29 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Geneva_grl
Quit targeting President Gearan. He and his wife have done much for this community.



herez an idea

the geneva school district is starting to spend $30 million to replace the sports fields

rather then spend the $30 million just have hws let the local school use their sports fields and stadium

the cost to bus the students over to hws during the year for sports should be only about $20,000 or less per year

if the $30 million is divided over 30 years than that would be about $1 million per year for the cost of the 'newer' fields

the local school district would save around $980,000 per year ($1 million - $20,000 bus costs = $980,000 savings per year to the local school) by not spending the $30 million for the 'newer' fields


the $20,000 in bus costs per year would actually be less when you factor in that there would be no ongoing costs for the upkeep, utilities, mowing... of the local schools sport field and stadium

the local school could save even more by sharing hws sport field and stadium
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#1497321 --- 04/03/17 07:45 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
HWS was worried about paying a "street benefit". They own property on South Main, Hamilton and St. Clare and that is a lot of frontage.


and how much taxable property have they taken off the tax rolls when they acquired those homes?

$6 million, $8 million or even higher?
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#1497517 --- 04/07/17 08:28 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Jeff Peters]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
HWS was worried about paying a "street benefit". They own property on South Main, Pultney, Hamilton and St. Clare and that is a lot of frontage.


hws could have made a 'donation' close to what taxes would have been to help out the city taxpapers

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
Some property owners would have paid more under this plan. This is not theoretical as specific properties were actually identified.


their property tax bill would have went down because all property owners would be sharing the cost

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
Here is an example I knew of: an elderly couple living in a multiple family residence on a corner lot, one side of which was a double lot. They did not have the rental unit rented, but they were still listed as multiple family on the tax rolls. Because of their age, military service, etc. they were taxed at less than assessed value, but they would have gone away with the benefit district.


they were still paying nearly 3 times more compared to canandaigua per year so where were the councilors all those years?

canandaigua offers trash pick-up with their lower taxes so where were the councilors then to help out the geneva taxpayer?

the city has a 'live where you work' program
just use that money to cover that one homeowner

Originally Posted By: Jeff Peters
Some members of the Council said they would support this benefit district only if every one's taxes decreased and that was not going to happen, but in the end it was the complexity of trying to figure out who what pay which rates that defeated this plan.


so when the city taxpayers have paid nearly 3 times more in property taxes per year compared to canandaigua for less services were where those few councilors then?

where were the few councilors when the city taxpayers were paying double for the duplicate 911 service for many years?

where were the few city councilors when hws took countless properties off the tax rolls leading to higher taxes for everyone else?

...
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#1498308 --- 05/03/17 12:17 PM Prez Bill to HWS [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
former president bill clinton will speak at the hws graduation this year

wonder if hws president will show bill how geneva now has a 25% poverty rate and the city is in decline while hws buys more and more property taking them off the tax rolls


Originally Posted By: bluezone

Originally Posted By: Libertas
Per the Democrat and Chronicle...

"White Plains residents pay the highest total property taxes per capita among cities in New York, while Binghamton has the highest effective property-tax rate in the state, a review today found.

Albany had the highest effective property-tax rate — which is the total raised through property taxes divided by adjusted full value of property — among large cities at 1.22 percent. Overall among cities, Binghamton led the pack at 2.51 percent, the Empire Center for State Policy found.

Among cities, White Plains residents paid the highest per capita taxes at $1,898, and the Westchester County city also had the highest per capita spending at $3,716.

Rye ranked second in property taxes per capita at $1,500 and Yonkers ranked third at $1,381. They are all in Westchester, which has the highest property taxes in the nation. The city of Rochester ranked eight at $2,675 per capita, the group said.

Geneva, Ontario County, had the highest per capita debt at $3,318.

The group calculated the rates through its Benchmarking New York online tool.

“New Yorkers are paying some of the highest property taxes in the country, and Benchmarking New York is a powerful tool that lets them see exactly how their taxes compare to those in other communities,” said Tim Hoefer, executive director of the conservative, Albany-based group.

It found that Lewis County in northern New York had the highest expenditure among counties in New York, at $4,659 per capita. Westchester ranked fourth at $2,670, while Broome County ranked fifth at $2,655.

The small Adirondacks town of Newcomb had the highest expenditure and taxes per capita among New York towns. Among villages, the Fire Island village of Saltaire had the highest expenditures and taxes per capita — a whopping $58,566 per home owner, which totals about 37 year-round residents."


Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.



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#1498309 --- 05/03/17 12:21 PM Re: Prez Bill to HWS [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
hillary may not attend

busy with her book...
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#1498400 --- 05/06/17 09:48 AM Re: Prez Bill to HWS [Re: bluezone]
LittleKing Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 168
Bill doesn't look good these days. He might keel over around all those college girls

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#1498420 --- 05/06/17 08:13 PM Re: Prez Bill to HWS [Re: LittleKing]
Roadtrip2nowhere Offline
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Lol for sure.....
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#1506093 --- 10/06/17 09:16 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.


it rose from 55% to 62% this year

all students in the geneva school qualify for no cost breakfast and lunch

and HWS spends money on their campus like it is growing on trees
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#1510899 --- 12/15/17 07:11 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Loc: USA
wonder if the new HWS president will have some of his students do research and see how much of the nearly 70% tax exempt properties have on the very high poverty level in the city

HWS has around 200 acres that is tax exempt
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#1513101 --- 02/07/18 10:35 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.


it rose from 55% to 62% this year

all students in the geneva school qualify for no cost breakfast and lunch

and HWS spends money on their campus like it is growing on trees


wonder if the new HWS president will have some of his students do research and see how much of the nearly 70% tax exempt properties have on the very high poverty level in the city


those raised cross walks that hws put in on pulteney street are only there to serve hws
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#1513102 --- 02/07/18 10:48 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.


believe that the lastest count is over 3,000 people in geneva are at the poverty level

HWS student population is about 2400 if one wants to get a real sense of how high the poverty level is

with the stock market up nearly 40% wonder if hws endowment is over $350 million yet?

but no money from hws to pay their fair share while the poverty level grows in geneva
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#1513114 --- 02/08/18 10:33 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
cwjga Offline
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Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12651
Loc: NY

Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.


Don't be to concerned for the families on the lunch program, eligibility for a family of four is $45,510 annually. Not exactly needy.

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#1513116 --- 02/08/18 10:53 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 186
I don't know, cwjga , $45,500 after taxes for 4 people doesn't sound like a lot to me. car expenses, gas, electricity, home repairs, car repairs, food, clothes for 4 people, medical, eye glasses perhaps, I'm sure I didn't get it all, but those expenses alone would cause that family to live paycheck to paycheck these days. --- just sayin'

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#1513118 --- 02/08/18 11:19 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: ruby2]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: ruby2
I don't know, cwjga , $45,500 after taxes for 4 people doesn't sound like a lot to me. car expenses, gas, electricity, home repairs, car repairs, food, clothes for 4 people, medical, eye glasses perhaps, I'm sure I didn't get it all, but those expenses alone would cause that family to live paycheck to paycheck these days. --- just sayin'


do not forget the very high property taxes cuz HWS gets a 'free ride'

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#1513119 --- 02/08/18 11:30 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
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Originally Posted By: cwjga
Not exactly needy.


and neither is HWS

have HWS 'donate' just 3% of their endowment every year and that would cover most of the city yearly expenses

when peoples property taxes drop then they could use that money to feed their family
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#1513120 --- 02/08/18 11:36 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: ruby2]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: ruby2
I don't know, cwjga , $45,500 after taxes for 4 people doesn't sound like a lot to me. car expenses, gas, electricity, home repairs, car repairs, food, clothes for 4 people, medical, eye glasses perhaps, I'm sure I didn't get it all, but those expenses alone would cause that family to live paycheck to paycheck these days. --- just sayin'

Absolutely, Ruby.

I'd like to see anyone try to live on $11,000 a year and then suggest that they aren't 'exactly needy'. Especially if they experience anything less than perfect health, require dependable transportation or safe, adequate housing.
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#1513122 --- 02/08/18 11:44 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Not exactly needy.


HWS is not needy either

guess who owns the properties listed below?

that is only a partial list

care to guess how many of them have an assessed value over $50,000,000?

no taxes paid on any of them


Quote:
Owner Name Property Address
Colleges of the Seneca
171 Kings Ln

Colleges of the Seneca
25 Verplanck St

Colleges of the Seneca
Verplanck St

Colleges of the Seneca
420 Pulteney St

Colleges of the Seneca
425 Pulteney St

Colleges of the Seneca
451 Pulteney St

Colleges of the Seneca
780 S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
775 S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
737 S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
645 S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
639 S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
629 S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
Saint Clair

Colleges of the Seneca
402 Pulteney St

Colleges of the Seneca
15 Verplanck St

Colleges of the Seneca
412 Pulteney St

Colleges of the Seneca
Pulteney St

Colleges of the Seneca
Kings Ln

Colleges of the Seneca
844 S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
394 S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
764 S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
756 S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
746 S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
730 S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
720 S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
710 S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
51 Saint Clair & Pulteney

Colleges of the Seneca
403 Pulteney St

Colleges of the Seneca
411 Pulteney St

Colleges of the Seneca
419 Pulteney St

Colleges of the Seneca
408 Pulteney St

Colleges of the Seneca
400 Pulteney St

Colleges of the Seneca
(97) Saint Clair St

Colleges of the Seneca
99 Saint Clair St

Colleges of the Seneca
577 S Main St

Colleges of the Seneca
Jay St

Colleges of the Seneca
Jay St

Colleges of the Seneca
Saint Clair St

Colleges of the Seneca
Verplanck St

Colleges of the Seneca
Verplanck St

Colleges of the Seneca
Verplanck St

Colleges of the Seneca
Verplanck St

Colleges of the Seneca
Verplanck St

Colleges of the Seneca
Verplanck St

Colleges of the Seneca
Pulteney St

Colleges of the Seneca
White Springs Rd

Colleges of the Seneca
White Springs Rd

Colleges of the Seneca
Saint Clair St

Colleges of the Seneca
593 S Main St


Hobart & William Smith College
Saint Clair St

Hobart & William Smith College
87 Saint Clair St

Hobart & William Smith College
800 S Main St

Hobart & William Smith College
583 S Main St

Hobart & William Smith College
91 Saint Clair St

Hobart & William Smith College
Pulteney/Main/St Clair

Hobart and William Smith
White Springs Ln

Hobart and William Smith
56 White Springs Ln

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#1515359 --- 06/08/18 06:33 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
considering HWS saves sooooo much in NOT paying property taxes HWS should pay the monthly rent for Food Justice at the cities incubator location


if HWS has an endowment fund with nearly $250 million in it a few hundred dollars per month to help people with limited access to healthy food would be a 'good neighbor' thing to do by HWS

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#1515363 --- 06/08/18 10:49 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
scwoodchuck Offline
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Registered: 05/22/14
Posts: 2365
Loc: LOST IN SPACE
Hey, how about we get the 63% of kids that are overweight to share some of their food ?
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#1517048 --- 07/17/18 05:31 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: scwoodchuck]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: scwoodchuck
Hey, how about we get the 63% of kids that are overweight to share some of their food ?


are you refering to the HWS college students with 63% of them being overweight?
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#1517050 --- 07/17/18 05:39 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: scwoodchuck]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
HWS could eliminate their fireworks display and use that money to help Food Justice pay their yearly rent
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#1518114 --- 07/30/18 03:27 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Quote:

Originally Posted By: Libertas
Per the Democrat and Chronicle...

"White Plains residents pay the highest total property taxes per capita among cities in New York, while Binghamton has the highest effective property-tax rate in the state, a review today found.

Albany had the highest effective property-tax rate — which is the total raised through property taxes divided by adjusted full value of property — among large cities at 1.22 percent. Overall among cities, Binghamton led the pack at 2.51 percent, the Empire Center for State Policy found.

Among cities, White Plains residents paid the highest per capita taxes at $1,898, and the Westchester County city also had the highest per capita spending at $3,716.

Rye ranked second in property taxes per capita at $1,500 and Yonkers ranked third at $1,381. They are all in Westchester, which has the highest property taxes in the nation. The city of Rochester ranked eight at $2,675 per capita, the group said.

Geneva, Ontario County, had the highest per capita debt at $3,318.

The group calculated the rates through its Benchmarking New York online tool.

“New Yorkers are paying some of the highest property taxes in the country, and Benchmarking New York is a powerful tool that lets them see exactly how their taxes compare to those in other communities,” said Tim Hoefer, executive director of the conservative, Albany-based group.

It found that Lewis County in northern New York had the highest expenditure among counties in New York, at $4,659 per capita. Westchester ranked fourth at $2,670, while Broome County ranked fifth at $2,655.

The small Adirondacks town of Newcomb had the highest expenditure and taxes per capita among New York towns. Among villages, the Fire Island village of Saltaire had the highest expenditures and taxes per capita — a whopping $58,566 per home owner, which totals about 37 year-round residents."


Originally Posted By: tag2
If you read the "Panther Pride" which was delivered this week I hope you read the article on page 11. I knew that we have a lot of folks who are struggling financially but... Over 55% of the elementary students are eligible for SNAP or Medicaid. The Geneva elementary schools were selected to participate in Community Eligibility Program through June 2018. This means that ALL of the students at West Street and North Street schools are able to eat breakfast and lunch at no cost. It is a federally funded program. While I am happy that these students will no longer face a day without or with very little food I am appalled that in our community there are so many people (including the little ones) who need this help.




local newspaper had a story about HWS students studying to see if cherries are healthy

how about studying how a large portion of tax exempt properties (hws being one of those tax exempt) in the city causes high property/school taxes and why high poverty is a result
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#1524199 --- 02/06/19 01:42 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
HWS to announce a new president for the college soon
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#1524331 --- 02/10/19 06:33 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
pingu Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 673
Loc: Right here.
The announcement has been made and my hope is that this new president can do what is needed to move the colleges forward, work with the city on mutually-beneficial projects instead of continuing to build a wall around campus and buy up more valuable real estate and take it off the tax rolls.

With any appointment, no matter the profile of the person selected, will depend on that persons ability to lead and shape many aspects of the colleges. Regardless of color, ethnicity, sex or musical preference a good president will be able to build a positive relationship with all stakeholders.

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#1535863 --- 11/11/19 02:41 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
HWS has from 50 to 80 false alarms per month to the colleges wasting the resources/personnel of the fire department

charge the college $1,000 per false alarm until the colleges correct the problem

$1,000 x 50 false calls per month equals $50,000

$50,000 x 12 months = $600,000 for false alarms calls to the colleges per year

the $200,000 that HWS is offering to 'donate' to the city per year does not even cover the cost for the false alarm calls per year
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#1535892 --- 11/11/19 03:19 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 339
At the beginning of your remarks, you state that HWS SHOULD pay $1,000 per false alarm. At the end it has magically become THE COST - has the Fire Department declared that false alarms cost $1,000 each, or is this just your decree? Do we bill other entities for false alarms?

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#1535919 --- 11/12/19 11:56 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Do we bill other entities for false alarms?


if they had 50 to 80 false alarms PER MONTH how would you address it?

HWS could transfer all their smoke alarm signals to their security guard office and have their security guards determine if they are false alarms
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#1535921 --- 11/12/19 12:25 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 18033
Loc: Above ground
I have a question Bluezone, how much does Geneva General Hospital contribute toward the city's tax base? seeing that if I recall, there use to be quite a consistent frequency of false alarms originating from that facility. Secondly, does the city residents pay a fire tax?
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#1535930 --- 11/12/19 04:43 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 339
So apparently you choose not to address how you got from THEY SHOULD pay $1,000 to THE COST is $1,000. What a surprise.

HWS could do this (delay response until after an investigation), at the risk of the delayed response putting someone in danger - is that what you are suggesting, that student lives are somehow worth less because they happen to be in an environment where false alarms occur more frequently? Would you apply this metric to the Courtyard Apartments, also a source of false alarms?

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#1535942 --- 11/13/19 04:18 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus

HWS could do this (delay response until after an investigation), at the risk of the delayed response putting someone in danger - is that what you are suggesting, that student lives are somehow worth less because they happen to be in an environment where false alarms occur more frequently?


do the 50 - 80 false alarms per month from HWS not put others at risk if they have an actual emergency?
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#1535944 --- 11/13/19 04:26 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
So apparently you choose not to address how you got from THEY SHOULD pay $1,000 to THE COST is $1,000. What a surprise.


where did I state the cost is $1,000?

how much do you estimate that it costs the fire department (taxpayers) to send trucks to the other side of the city (to HWS) about once a day?
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#1535945 --- 11/13/19 04:31 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
HWS could do this


let HWS set up their own emergency station

what is HWS current endowment up to $500 million?
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#1535946 --- 11/13/19 04:34 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
HWS could do this


other larger colleges pay the local community for each call to police and fire
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#1535950 --- 11/13/19 05:14 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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From your 11/11 post:


charge the college $1,000 per false alarm until the colleges correct the problem

$1,000 x 50 false calls per month equals $50,000

$50,000 x 12 months = $600,000 for false alarms calls to the colleges per year

the $200,000 that HWS is offering to 'donate' to the city per year does not even cover the cost for the false alarm calls per year

See, there? You went from charge to cost in a few sentences. I don't know what the cost is, I've been trying to get you to justify your number, which apparently was plucked out of thin air.

HWS endowment, as stated by their President, is $262 million, so you're off by a huge amount - again.

Which larger colleges, and how much do they pay? Please substantiate your claims.

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#1536028 --- 11/16/19 04:55 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I don't know what the cost is


is it free to send out the fire trucks to the other side of the city for false alarms?
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#1536029 --- 11/16/19 04:58 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I don't know what the cost is


if the fire department is responding to a false alarm at HWS but there is an acutal emergency and some one dies because the fire department is on the other side of the city should HWS be sued for the fatality?
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#1536030 --- 11/16/19 05:04 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I don't know what the cost is


if a person gets a parking ticket should the fee only be the few cents it costs to print out the ticket?


there needs to be an incentive for HWS to reduce to false alarms

it was pointed out by anther poster that the hospital has reduced their false alarm calls

HWS should reduce the false alarm calls

there is plenty of money in their endowment to take steps to reduce the false alarm calls
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#1536039 --- 11/16/19 09:18 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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As before, no actual response to my question, but admirable attempts to change the topic.

Try this: if the fire trucks stay in station all day, do your taxes go down?

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#1536361 --- 11/30/19 12:13 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus

Try this: if the fire trucks stay in station all day, do your taxes go down?


How much does it cost to send out a fire truck to REPEATED false alarms?
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#1536380 --- 12/01/19 06:30 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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This would have been a much better start to your thread, since it's an admission that you don't know, but would like to know, about the cost, rather than trying to turn your opinion into a fact.

I don't know what the cost is, either. Probably the most difficult cost to determine in this equation is the wear & tear on the volunteers, not the equipment.

Perhaps a knowledgable volunteer can respond?

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#1536387 --- 12/02/19 08:58 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
Timbo Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
This would have been a much better start to your thread, since it's an admission that you don't know, but would like to know, about the cost, rather than trying to turn your [his] opinion into a fact.

I don't know what the cost is, either. Probably the most difficult cost to determine in this equation is the wear & tear on the volunteers, not the equipment.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.
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#1536406 --- 12/03/19 03:25 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
This would have been a much better start to your thread,


The hospital took steps to lower the false alarm calls.

HWS should take steps to lessen the false alarm calls that generate from the students / staff.
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#1536410 --- 12/03/19 03:56 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
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Being an expert in electronics, tell us how do you minimize remote receivers and transponders? I'm very curious.
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#1536430 --- 12/03/19 06:49 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Formermac]
a49deere Offline
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easily! program siplex system to detect if one. two or more heads are activated, sprinkler flow and a smoke head activation! multiply head activations and a sprinkler flow. any of the above and a pull station activation. campus security could investigate an alarm of only one device activated and at the same time putting fire dept on standby without leaving house. just sayin

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#1536431 --- 12/03/19 06:59 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: a49deere]
a49deere Offline
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and im about 99.99% sure that hobarts fire alarm system uses no transponders

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#1536433 --- 12/03/19 07:41 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: a49deere]
Formermac Offline
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Originally Posted By: a49deere
easily! program siplex system to detect if one. two or more heads are activated, sprinkler flow and a smoke head activation! multiply head activations and a sprinkler flow. any of the above and a pull station activation. campus security could investigate an alarm of only one device activated and at the same time putting fire dept on standby without leaving house. just sayin


Exactly, it all sounds good on paper or as we say in the electronic arena, schematics are flawless. Tell me of a perfectly and flawless system and I'll show you one that is PERFECT in every form in regard to design, one which is totally deactivated and lays dormant. Now about your infinite knowledge of what system HWS utilizes, maybe you can fine tune it to zero malfunctions. Based on experience, it's always a fool who speaks nonsensical babbling when uneducated in such areas, Just saying wink
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#1536451 --- 12/04/19 02:15 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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It would be interesting to see a map of false alarms. An area of high frequency might justify additional technology.

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#1536470 --- 12/05/19 07:58 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Formermac]
a49deere Offline
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Registered: 02/11/09
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Originally Posted By: Formermac
Originally Posted By: a49deere
easily! program siplex system to detect if one. two or more heads are activated, sprinkler flow and a smoke head activation! multiply head activations and a sprinkler flow. any of the above and a pull station activation. campus security could investigate an alarm of only one device activated and at the same time putting fire dept on standby without leaving house. just sayin


Exactly, it all sounds good on paper or as we say in the electronic arena, schematics are flawless. Tell me of a perfectly and flawless system and I'll show you one that is PERFECT in every form in regard to design, one which is totally deactivated and lays dormant. Now about your infinite knowledge of what system HWS utilizes, maybe you can fine tune it to zero malfunctions. Based on experience, it's always a fool who speaks nonsensical babbling when uneducated in such areas, Just saying wink






ok, Mister" electronics expert" do you have any clue of what type of fire alarm system Hobart utilizes? How old of a system it is? What is a remote receiver and transponder in the system? Have you looked up the definition of transponder? modern day fire alarm systems like Hobart's don't use transponders, unless they have fired their IT dept and gone back to the 70's

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#1536471 --- 12/05/19 11:03 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: a49deere]
Formermac Offline
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Originally Posted By: a49deere
Originally Posted By: Formermac
Originally Posted By: a49deere
easily! program siplex system to detect if one. two or more heads are activated, sprinkler flow and a smoke head activation! multiply head activations and a sprinkler flow. any of the above and a pull station activation. campus security could investigate an alarm of only one device activated and at the same time putting fire dept on standby without leaving house. just sayin


Exactly, it all sounds good on paper or as we say in the electronic arena, schematics are flawless. Tell me of a perfectly and flawless system and I'll show you one that is PERFECT in every form in regard to design, one which is totally deactivated and lays dormant. Now about your infinite knowledge of what system HWS utilizes, maybe you can fine tune it to zero malfunctions. Based on experience, it's always a fool who speaks nonsensical babbling when uneducated in such areas, Just saying wink






ok, Mister" electronics expert" do you have any clue of what type of fire alarm system Hobart utilizes? How old of a system it is? What is a remote receiver and transponder in the system? Have you looked up the definition of transponder? modern day fire alarm systems like Hobart's don't use transponders, unless they have fired their IT dept and gone back to the 70's



I love it when I can get under the skin of someone that don't know what they're speaking about. You're right, I have no knowledge of the type of fire system HWS possess. My point? regardless of the system, how do they minimize the amount of false alarms. BTW 4 years at Buffalo State and 34 years with LaChase as a master electrician, do think in any way I'll lower my standards for lil ole you? Calm down and try to get back to the topic at hand.....excessive call outs. lastly, unless you can tell us what type of fire detection is used, most of your rhetoric is for naught, I still retain my knowledge and you appear to be the fool.whistle
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#1536475 --- 12/06/19 05:40 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: a49deere]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: a49deere
Originally Posted By: Formermac/

Exactly, it all sounds good on paper or as we say in the electronic


ok, Mister" electronics expert"


A49deere - need not bother with the other poster who 'claims' to know it all


His information is clearly outdated by many decades
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#1536477 --- 12/06/19 05:44 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
It would be interesting to see a map of false alarms.


It was brought up by a city council member asking why HWS fails to correct the 50 - 80 calls PER month to HWS for false alarms
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#1536479 --- 12/06/19 05:52 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
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Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: a49deere
Originally Posted By: Formermac/

Exactly, it all sounds good on paper or as we say in the electronic


ok, Mister" electronics expert"


A49deere - need not bother with the other poster who 'claims' to know it all



His information is clearly outdated by many decades




I wouldn't question his premise of what type of system Hobart utilize, my thinking,what should be done to lower the incidents of the fire department going over, regardless if the system is old, if this is the case, upgrade the system which should be affordable seeing that students are paying $70,000 per year.
Question, has Geneva General Hospital resolve it issue of constant fire dept. callouts?
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#1536482 --- 12/06/19 08:54 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Formermac]
Timbo Offline
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Originally Posted By: Formermac
Originally Posted By: a49deere
ok, modern day fire alarm systems like Hobart's don't use transponders, unless they have fired their IT dept and gone back to the 70's

Calm down and try to get back to the topic at hand.....excessive call outs. lastly, unless you can tell us what type of fire detection is used, most of your rhetoric is for naught...

For naught, regardless, since I.T. (information technology) departments have never been in charge of fire alarm systems, EVER. That profession is overseen by CERTIFIED Fire Alarm Technicians ONLY (as per law). Or, did they fire THEM as well? Also, Transponders are certainly still found in many modern Addressable Fire Alarm Systems.

So, it would seem that a49deere and bluezone's combined expertise on the matter are outdated since, well... the beginning of time.
whistle
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#1536485 --- 12/06/19 09:23 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Timbo]
Formermac Offline
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LOL, thank you Sir, seeing that I did a system (Pittsburgh PA.) back in 2010, we know what is utilized. The current logic is "If it ain't broke" why spend thousands of dollars to simply replace an item because something new and improved has come alone. With that mindset, I need to purchase a new pickup every year because of improvements and technological advancements.
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#1536521 --- 12/07/19 08:34 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Formermac]
a49deere Offline
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wow. one system. back in 2010. that makes you an "expert".

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#1536523 --- 12/07/19 08:39 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: a49deere]
a49deere Offline
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I guess the point of this thread is to reduce alarms! not all false alarms are malfunctions. That being said, yes they have the means thru programming to reduce these types of responses.

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#1536533 --- 12/07/19 02:02 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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OK, so no one knows about the geographical concentration of false alarms. This would seem to be the information you need first, as it would give you a chance to see if it was a malfunction of equipment or negligent users.

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#1536538 --- 12/07/19 06:28 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: a49deere]
Formermac Offline
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Originally Posted By: a49deere
wow. one system. back in 2010. that makes you an "expert".


Why embarrass yourself by making this a personal fight? You've totally lost the premise of said posting, a high concentration of call outs, which incidentally, we don't if this problem wasn't addressed already. Secondarily, any system upgrade will be determined by the size of the system, one or two rooms versus several buildings, which scenario is feasible to upgraded on a regular basis at an reasonable cost? So as you've repeated, my one upgrade at $27,000 seems reasonable if system last for the next 20 years.
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#1536539 --- 12/08/19 08:03 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: a49deere]
Timbo Offline
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Originally Posted By: a49deere
I guess the point of this thread is to reduce alarms! not all false alarms are malfunctions. That being said, yes they have the means thru programming to reduce these types of responses.

The point of this thread is for bluezone to have another platform to once again rail against the public education system. And lest anyone get worked up over my assertion, all one need do, is to conduct a cursory review of these forums to see her endless diatribes attacking any and all components of public education. locally or nationally.

If BZ were sincere about her stance(s) on the subject, she'd also mention other (and more costly) "drags" on the economy overall. Corporate tax breaks, churches, hospitals, and so on...

Disproportionate taxation is a noble point of discussion as it relates to a struggling economy. Doing so while transparently forsaking far more costly examples is not. Especially when one endlessly throws around false arguments and baseless assumptions while at the same time never EVER directly responding to dissenting viewpoints or presented verifiable, relevant facts. That is, unless of course, answering debate inquiries with cyclical answers can be considered 'sincere, reasoned debate.'

Addressing the very serious issue of poverty while limiting the argument to HWS alone (as BZ's thread title demonstrates) is convincing evidence of an entrenched, one-sided bias, and is disingenuous at BEST. It's certainly not a true attempt to address the greater issue.
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#1536546 --- 12/08/19 05:52 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Timbo]
Timbo Offline
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*education system
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#1536558 --- 12/09/19 11:25 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Quote:
Nonprofit groups sue city | News | fltimes.com - Finger Lakes Times
Aug 6, 2011 · GENEVA –– As threatened, a group of nonprofit agencies led by Hobart and William Smith Colleges
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#1536569 --- 12/09/19 12:00 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus

HWS could do this (delay response until after an investigation), at the risk of the delayed response



Your statement below is from a different thread

It appears you want the tax exempt properties to help cover the costs thru higher water and sewer increases

The Benefits Assessments District that city council was going to move forward with would have had a far greater amount coming from the tax exempt properties like HWS but HWS was going to sue the city aka taxpayers

The Benefits Assessment District would have brought in about $2 million more per year from the tax exempt properties


Quote:
Savings? You mean how much will the increase be? Just because they're not increasing the rate doesn't mean your taxes will be reduced, just that your new (higher) assessments times the unchanged rate is sufficient to meet the demands of the new budget. But it's not too late to start looking at your assessment vs. comparable properties to see if you are over-assessed.

I'm actually glad there are increases in the water & sewer since the tax exempt properties have to pay those. Hopefully the City is allocating as many costs as possible to the Water & Sewer budgets
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#1536580 --- 12/09/19 04:07 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
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Originally Posted By: bluezone
The Benefits Assessment District would have brought in about $2 million more per year from the tax exempt properties

How much of that $2,000,000 is from churches, charities and hospitals?
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#1536586 --- 12/10/19 05:24 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Blue, you must get dizzy coming up with such a collection of unrelated references. I do favor maxing out the legal application of water & sewer because it actually applies to a measurable service, is proportional to the amount of the service used, and has municipal law applied to it in terms of what can be charged to that service. For example, fire protection can't be funded out of Water & Sewer. The proposed tax on non-profits was none of these, and the City probably would have lost the lawsuit, resulting in additional legal fees and higher taxes.

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#1536601 --- 12/10/19 08:59 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I do favor maxing out the legal application of water & sewer because it actually applies to a measurable service, is proportional to the amount of service used.


The city charges a different rate for out of City customers. The city should set up a different fee schedule for those that are tax-exempt and charge a slightly higher amount for water and sewer that they use.
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#1536605 --- 12/11/19 04:27 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Municipalities are not permitted to differentiate their rates that way. It would allow other forms of discrimination that you might not like, such as special BLOVIATOR rate.

Although in just a few hours I expect this "should" will become a "fact" in your rusty arsenal of reasoning.

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#1536608 --- 12/11/19 05:11 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Municipalities are not permitted to differentiate their rates that way.


Then there should not be any tax exempt properties as they receive services from the city
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#1536609 --- 12/11/19 05:16 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I do favor maxing out the legal application of water & sewer because it actually applies to a measurable service, is proportional to the amount of service used.


Then a fee should be charged to HWS for having a higher rate of false alarms until HWS takes steps to reduce the 50-80 false alarms per month
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#1536622 --- 12/11/19 07:57 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
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The thing is, BZ, when you're talking about private schools, they have been deemed tax exempt due to their benefit to the 'common good.' Fire departments are government services which are all tax exempt (for partly the same reason). Public schools, similarly, are also government services.

The US government has established that emergency services have the liability (financial or otherwise) to absorb such burdens due to (among other reasons) the obvious benefit of being tax exempt in the first place, even though this is not the primary function.

I'm not aware of any exception which would allow for a legal implementation of such fees, fines or offsets. Are you?

Perhaps this will help bring you up to speed:
https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/News-...view.ashx?la=en
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#1536628 --- 12/11/19 09:30 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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Then there should not be any tax exempt properties as they receive services from the city

Then you have an argument with the IRS, section 501. Feel free to take it up with them.

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#1536675 --- 12/12/19 12:27 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus


Then you have an argument with the IRS, section 501. Feel free to take it up with them.



The city was moving forward with the Benefits Assessments District - to have the costs shared EQUAL

HWS filed a lawsuit against the city

Is it true that you (the taxpayer) is paying for the upgrade to sewer system (because HWS had to construct the new Gearon building) when pulteney street was redone?

How much is that bond and how many decades will you be paying for it?


The $140,000 'donation' from HWS is a drop in the bucket
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#1536694 --- 12/13/19 04:59 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
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1) Do you have any proof that the Pulteney Street rebuild was different because of the Gearan Center, or is this just another unsubstantiated attempt at a "fact"?

2) Upgrades to Water & Sewer come out of that budget; debt incurred is serviced from that budget as well, so water & sewer users are paying the bill, which includes taxpayers as well as tax-exempt properties, see my response to an earlier post.

3) If usage of the Gearan Center increases net HWS water & sewer consumption, their bill goes up and they help pay for the upgrade, so I suggest you go to a concert there and use the bathroom.

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#1536747 --- 12/14/19 11:26 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
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Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Then you have an argument with the IRS, section 501. Feel free to take it up with them.

The city was moving forward with the Benefits Assessments District - to have the costs shared EQUAL

HWS filed a lawsuit against the city

Is it true that you (the taxpayer) is paying for the upgrade to sewer system (because HWS had to construct the new Gearon building) when pulteney street was redone?

How much is that bond and how many decades will you be paying for it?


The $140,000 'donation' from HWS is a drop in the bucket

What part of 'common good tax exemption' has you so entirely flummoxed? crazy
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#1536748 --- 12/14/19 11:29 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
Timbo Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tacitus
... I suggest you go to a concert there and use the bathroom.

Sublime! grin
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#1536751 --- 12/14/19 06:56 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Formermac]
a49deere Offline
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Posts: 65
Loc: ny
$27,000 wow, what's that? one panel and ten devices, plus Lachase mark up of 30%. I'm impressed, sorry

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#1536951 --- 12/17/19 04:01 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 339
I take it the lack of a BZ response is an early Christmas gift. OR the search is on for more unrelated dat or out of context comments.

I'll be away. Timbo, looking to you for an enforcement of facts rules. We may not agree on everything, but we find comfort in facts.

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#1541279 --- 02/10/20 01:47 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
I take it the lack of a BZ response is an early Christmas gift


Was busy
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#1541281 --- 02/10/20 01:52 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
we find comfort in facts.


HWS wants the city of Geneva to sign a new deal 2 years prior to renewal

Is HWS concerned that case law may be moving against them?
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#1541300 --- 02/10/20 04:16 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 339
HWS now has a president who's an economist. Maybe she's going to ask Council to look at the economic impact of the colleges and compare it to the PILOT offers every county is making to lure businesses to their locations? Look at all of the money we gave away to Cheribundi, only to have them leave.

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#1542476 --- 02/22/20 03:00 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Quote:
Fribolin Donates Property to HWS
February 10th, 2014
Local agricultural innovator, entrepreneur and philanthropist Carl W. Fribolin has donated more than 35 acres of farmland on White Springs Lane in the Town of Geneva to Hobart and William Smith Colleges





Quote:
Hobart and William Smith Colleges are selling the Fribolin Farm at 56 White Springs Lane in the town of Geneva. The colleges acquired the farm in 2014.
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#1542486 --- 02/22/20 04:42 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 339
.. and your point is?

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#1544710 --- 03/24/20 03:15 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Quote:
The Colleges have moved to a remote instruction model starting March 23. Although we had hoped that we would be able to welcome students back to campus after Spring Break, based on the spread of the virus and on the advice and counsel of local authorities and public health officials, we will not return to an in-person model of teaching this semester.

We have made the difficult decision to restrict on-campus housing to only those students with special circumstances


The HWS buildings are mostly empty

Let FLHealth use the empty space to quarantine those with the co-vid 19
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#1544763 --- 03/25/20 11:15 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
HeavenlyPlaces Offline
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Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 21995
Loc: Someplace Else
So just how many cases do you have there?
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#1545064 --- 03/29/20 05:16 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: HeavenlyPlaces]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Quote:
Cuomo Orders Hospitals To Increase Capacity
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#1548693 --- 05/20/20 08:37 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
If usage of the Gearan Center increases net HWS water & sewer consumption, their bill goes up and they help pay for the upgrade, so I suggest you go to a concert there and use the bathroom.


With the HWS students using virtual teaching that would mean that the water usage for HWS would decline

Your water and sewer rates may increase
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#1548784 --- 05/20/20 09:58 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
genevaparent Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 179
Loc: Geneva NY
Is there anyone who looks across the forums and wonders if Bluezone does anything but comment on forums?

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#1548791 --- 05/21/20 04:07 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 339
If only any of it were useful.

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#1548795 --- 05/21/20 07:27 AM Re: Hobart Deficits [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Will HWS have to close?

Quote:
Hobart and William Smith Colleges President Joyce P. Jacobsen outlines the steps they are taking to address significant budget questions heading into the 2020-21 academic year.

“Moving forward we anticipate a substantial FY2021 budget deficit directly related to the pandemic if we do not take steps to correct for it now,”


We anticipate a $10.5M budget deficit under the in-person instruction scenario, and the deficits rise substantially from that point based on the extent to which we must move to more remote learning.”

employees see a 7.7% pay reduction or four weeks of furlough and

Overall reduction of employer retirement contribution from 10% down to 5%
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1548802 --- 05/21/20 08:14 AM Re: Hobart Deficits [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Quote:
Mayor sees 'cataclysmic trouble' if Cornell and Ithaca College do not reopen campuses this fall

The mayor of Ithaca, New York, told CNBC that the city's economy faces dire consequences if local colleges do not hold in-person classes this fall due to the coronavirus.
"If the students don't come back in the fall, we're in real cataclysmic trouble," Svante Myrick said on "Squawk on the Street."
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1550118 --- 06/09/20 08:40 AM Re: Hobart Deficits [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 339
It will be one way to measure the spin-off benefits of the colleges. Not a good time to be opening a bar or pizzeria.

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#1553163 --- 07/26/20 01:26 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA

And yet HWS cut their employees pay by about 7.7%


Quote:
Largest Fundraising Year in Hobart and William Smith History
By Hobart and William Smith Colleges on June 29th, 2020
Thanks to the support of donors across the Hobart and William Smith community, this year the Colleges have achieved a new record – the largest fundraising year in Hobart and William Smith history. New gifts and commitments for fiscal year 2020, which ended on May 31, have exceeded $27 million.

“Philanthropic support to the Colleges is essential to the continued success of our students, faculty and staff, and an important signal from our graduates and parents of the increasing value of the HWS experience,” says Vice President for Advancement Bob O’Connor P’22. “These gifts and commitments drive innovative academic work, enable students to pursue internships and study abroad, and enrich everything from athletics to campus clubs. With unprecedented support from across the breadth of our community and key commitments from several members of the Board of Trustees, we are inspired and tremendously grateful.”

All-time records were broken in other categories including annual giving at $6.9 million and athletics fundraising, which set both donor and dollar records. During Athletics Day of Donors in February, HWS saw more donors contribute more dollars for Statesmen and Herons teams in a single day than ever before.

“I join Bob in thanking everyone who made a gift to the Colleges,” says President Joyce P. Jacobsen. “In my first year as president, this support is particularly meaningful and demonstrates a high level of confidence in our trajectory. I’m especially grateful to Bob and his team for all of their hard work to make it happen and in their skill in communicating to our donors the powerful value of a Hobart and William Smith education.”

“The work of the Colleges’ Advancement team over the past year has been outstanding,” says HWS Board Chair Thomas S. Bozzuto ’68, L.H.D. ’18. “Their efforts and the contributions of our alumni, alumnae, parents and friends will have a remarkable and concrete impact on the lives of students, faculty and staff far into the future. On behalf of the Board, I congratulate everyone on this incredible fundraising year.”
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1553172 --- 07/26/20 04:45 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 339
Yes, but they are still employed, with health care... more than many employed in the tourism sector can say.

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#1553487 --- 08/01/20 07:59 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Yes, but they are still employed, with health care


Is that because the geneva taxpayers are indirectly subsidizing HWS?
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1553522 --- Yesterday at 04:31 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 339
I don't know that it's "because" of an indirect subsidy any more than we subsidize NYSEG, or Guardian, or, for that matter, the tourism sector. We elect politicians, they vote on various issues, and we live with the results.

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#1553524 --- Yesterday at 06:00 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: genevaparent]
Ben444 Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 13809
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: genevaparent
Is there anyone who looks across the forums and wonders if Bluezone does anything but comment on forums?
Nope I don't think so.
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#1553527 --- Today at 03:47 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Ben444]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33445
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Ben444
Nope I don't think so.



You have nearly 14,000 posts in two years

Must be you are not good at math...
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