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#1479010 --- 11/25/15 04:01 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Hello_Governer]
cwjga Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 9761
Loc: NY
http://www.hws.edu/dailyupdate/NewsDetails.aspx?aid=18442

Even if it is only half, it is substantial.
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#1479011 --- 11/25/15 04:15 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Gee. A press release from HWS that says HWS contributes to the local economy. shocked

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#1479054 --- 11/27/15 01:38 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
pingu Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 610
Loc: Right here.
Originally Posted By: cwjga
http://www.hws.edu/dailyupdate/NewsDetails.aspx?aid=18442

Even if it is only half, it is substantial.


What a bunch of self-serving propaganda in that piece. By this article I am supposed to swallow the rationale of any money spent should be counted towards helping Geneva. HWS says: Okay, I paid my employees that I have to do anyway or they will leave, spent a bunch of money buying property and getting it off the tax roles, spent a lot more money to build the campus buildings and use architects, engineers and contractors that don't live here, I'll add in the money I spent on my own staff and vendors that also don't live here or contribute anything to the city or town but we're contributing so much to the local economy.

Anytime the City has tried to work with HWS on developing any sort of real community based improvement and cooperative effort HWS has just dragged its feet and chosen to ignore it or begrudgingly done the very least it had to. Let's have three cheers for all the HWS has done for this area!

That BS charter that allows them to be tax-exempt is for a seminary college, you know, religious based education. That was given in what, 1843 or somewhere around that time. How about an audit to see if they still comply with any sort of definition of religious or theologian exemption?

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#1479063 --- 11/28/15 05:06 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 151
Let's not forget the support they give the local economy buying drugs from the likes of Willie Smallwood. Think he lived on Pulteney becuas he liked the scenery? he wanted to be close to his customer base at Snowbart.

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#1479075 --- 11/28/15 09:04 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
IHHSG Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 102
Loc: 14456
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
Let's not forget the support they give the local economy buying drugs from the likes of Willie Smallwood. Think he lived on Pulteney becuas he liked the scenery? he wanted to be close to his customer base at Snowbart.


Let's not kid ourselves. HWS students are trafficking plenty of drugs at the college, and students don't need to leave the cozy confines of the campus to get an 8 ball (or more).

Best of all, if they get busted, no matter the amount, campus security simply confiscates the drugs and calls the kids' parents. No pesky police have to be involved. It's been happening for years.

Willie Smallwood? SMALL POTATOES compared to what the HWS student body is moving on that campus.

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#1481221 --- 01/29/16 03:28 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: pingu]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pingu
Anytime the City has tried to work with HWS on developing any sort of real community based improvement and cooperative effort HWS has just dragged its feet and chosen to ignore it or begrudgingly done the very least it had to. Let's have three cheers for all the HWS has done for this area!

That BS charter that allows them to be tax-exempt is for a seminary college, you know, religious based education. That was given in what, 1843 or somewhere around that time. How about an audit to see if they still comply with any sort of definition of religious or theologian exemption?


HWS has taken about $6 million of homes off the tax rolls just on south main street alone

guess how much property HWS has taken off the tax rolls with the 200 acres they own?

maybe the HWS president can explain how much tax money is lost each year just by the $6 million of south main street homes that HWS has taken off the tax rolls

or the $6 million that is not taxed that should be going to the local schools each year

or the $6 million of non-taxable property that will not be included when the county passes out the share of sales taxes each year

when HWS takes property of the tax rolls it is a three fold negative effect

the city taxpayers loss property taxes, the school loses tax money and the share of sales taxes from the county is greatly reduced each year

maybe the new HWS 'performance' center should be dedicated to the city of geneva taxpayers and not the HWS president whistle

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#1481393 --- 02/02/16 10:08 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Here's Johnny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 825
Loc: New York
The development of the Performance Center confirms that Hobart cares more about attracting paying students than providing graduates with a viable career path. As long as there are wanna be performers it matters little if they succeed in the real world. College as a camp for late adolescents. Shame.

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#1481572 --- 02/10/16 05:04 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
ibepokenmore Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 486
Loc: waterloo
maybe they meant 244.00?
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#1481598 --- 02/11/16 03:09 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Here's Johnny]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 13184
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Here's Johnny
The development of the Performance Center confirms that Hobart cares more about attracting paying students than providing graduates with a viable career path. As long as there are wanna be performers it matters little if they succeed in the real world. College as a camp for late adolescents. Shame.

Define "Real World"... Auto mechanic, Pizza Cook? Who decides, YOU??? crazy

False Assumptions, False Choices All.

Virtually every past civilization in history is revered almost exclusively by their arts, sciences and humanities. Not the other way around. In fact, the very pinnacle of human existence is marked and immortalized by them. Certainly not by those forces which would stand in their way.

THAT is the "real" world.
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#1487410 --- 07/25/16 11:42 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
believe that HWS president was happy that geneva got the $10 million from cuomo

odd ain't it

HWS sued the city over the benefits assessment district

the benefits assessment district was to try to have the tax exempt properties pay a share of the city operating costs

it seems that if the benefits assessment district were in affect then the city would have seen more than $10 million over the years when it would have started

must be the president of HWS would rather have the taxpayers shoulder all the costs while HWS builds a $25 million performance center

wonder if the president of HWS knows about the 25% POVERTY rate in the city of geneva?
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#1488032 --- 08/10/16 12:37 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
HWS President Mark Gearan


Dear Mr Gearan

if 30% of your students were required to pay for the remaining 70% of students costs would the 30% continue to stay at your college or would they look at another college where they only paid their share?

would the new enrollment of the 30% 'payall' students decline also?

must be why when middle income families have a choice to live in the city of geneva or move elsewhere - they choose elsewhere
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#1488479 --- 08/19/16 06:22 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
HWS President Mark Gearan


Quote:
Gearan to leave HWS


Quote:
he will have served for 18 years, leading HWS through a period of unprecedented growth, as well as a time of far greater civic engagement for the school - much of it led by Gearan himself



the city of geneva also saw an unprecedented amount of growth during the same time period

POVERTY RATE OF NEARLY 25%

does that work out to be just over a 1% growth in poverty each year for the past 18 years?

odd

that when the city wanted to have the tax exempt properties (nearly 70%) pay a share of the city costs it was HWS that lead the way to sue the city to stop the benefits assessment plan

must be the money was better used to build a $25 million structure in your name whistle
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#1488678 --- 08/22/16 08:38 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Downeaster63 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/13
Posts: 28
Loc: Geneva,NY
I am hopeful that the powers-that-be at HWS practice some of the diversity that they preach and appoint a woman or person of color (or a combination of both) to the position of President of the colleges. After all, William Smith is half of the college population over there, and there are many young men and women of color attending. The time is right - let's hope the opportunity isn't squandered.

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#1489361 --- 09/07/16 10:53 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: pingu]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pingu
Anytime the City has tried to work with HWS on developing any sort of real community based improvement and cooperative effort HWS has just dragged its feet and chosen to ignore it or begrudgingly done the very least it had to. !

That BS charter that allows them to be tax-exempt is for a seminary college, you know, religious based education. That was given in what, 1843 or somewhere around that time. How about an audit to see if they still comply with any sort of definition of religious or theologian exemption?


it would be interesting to see how much the city taxpayers would benefit if HWS did pay their share of the taxes
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1489364 --- 09/08/16 04:53 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
Tacitus Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 151
It would be even more interesting if we extended this approach to all non-profits: churches, daycares, the hospital, service organizations like K of C, and the Housing Authority.

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#1489377 --- 09/08/16 09:46 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
FLaker Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 58
Loc: Finger Lakes
The colleges are not to blame for the increased rate of poverty in Geneva. Possibly the higher tax rate, but definitely not the poverty. What would Geneva look like without the colleges? It would likely be a pretty depressing picture.

That said, although the NYS Constitution and NYS tax law grant nonprofit educational institutions tax exempt status, the colleges probably should contribute more to basic infrastructure projects within the city.

The city will be undertaking the paving of Pulteney Street between Hamilton and St. Clair. The colleges are the major and almost exclusive beneficiary of that stretch of roadway. However, is there a single taxable property over there? I understand the colleges offered to buy the property from the city, but it was met opposition from the public. Nevertheless, it would be nice to see the colleges step up and contribute to the repaving project. It's not a requirement under NY law, but it seems like the decent thing to do.

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#1489403 --- 09/08/16 07:52 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: Tacitus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Tacitus
It would be even more interesting if we extended this approach to all non-profits: churches, daycares, the hospital, service organizations like K of C, and the Housing Authority.


true
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#1489405 --- 09/08/16 08:30 PM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: FLaker]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: FLaker
The colleges are not to blame for the increased rate of poverty in Geneva. Possibly the higher tax rate, but definitely not the poverty.


local newspaper had an article relating to a study that showed middle income home buyers chose to locate out of the city when looking for a home to buy

a depressed housing market allows investors to buy homes cheap and then rent out the homes until the homes are no longer habitable

the investor walks away from the home after making their profits and then the city is left to tear down the home further putting downward pressure on home values and taking more properties (value) off the tax rolls

when the home is tore down then the city loses property taxes, sales taxes % from the county, water/sewer fees, spending power without a family living in that home...

homes near the college that are student housing create neighborhoods where families do not want to buy a home or live in that area to raise their children

further depressing the home values in those areas

Originally Posted By: FLaker
What would Geneva look like without the colleges?


canandaigua, victor, farmington...

hws spent the last 18 years expanding their campus and taking large portions off the tax rolls

look back 20 years ago and see how the tax rates were much lower compared to the overall budget

Originally Posted By: FLaker
the colleges probably should contribute more to basic infrastructure projects within the city.


true


Originally Posted By: FLaker
The city will be undertaking the paving of Pulteney Street between Hamilton and St. Clair. The colleges are the major and almost exclusive beneficiary of that stretch of roadway.


paving, new sidewalks, water, sewer and other major upgrades
$9 million to be bonded out for

hws should pay to widen the street for parking on both sides

parking on the east side of south main should be eliminated for college use and be moved to the new wider pulteney st

students crossing on south main st to get to their parked cars on the east side of the street creates a major safety issue with the large volume of traffic in that area and a heavy presence of large trucks

Originally Posted By: FLaker
I understand the colleges offered to buy the property from the city


believe the newspaper stated hws would get a grant if the city turned over ownership to hws

little money out of hws pocket

Originally Posted By: FLaker
Nevertheless, it would be nice to see the colleges step up and contribute to the repaving project.


believe hws saved $2 million on interest for a $40 million loan they financed when 'partnered' with the city to get hws a lower interest rate

have hws use the $2 million in savings to help with the $9 million street upgrade

Originally Posted By: FLaker
it seems like the decent thing to do.


president gearan has had 18 years to do the decent thing and assist the city/taxpayers

how about the tax exempt properties pay for all city services for the next 18 years and see if it turns around the city for the better grin

homeowners would have money to improve their homes, spent at local businesses, home values would increase and middle income buyers would move back into the city
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1495210 --- 02/10/17 11:19 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: FLaker]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: FLaker
That said, although the NYS Constitution and NYS tax law grant nonprofit educational institutions tax exempt status, the colleges probably should contribute more to basic infrastructure projects within the city.


if the 70% tax exempt properties made 'donations' equal to what they would pay in taxes then that would lower the taxes for the homeowners
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1495211 --- 02/10/17 11:33 AM Re: Hobart / Poverty [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32003
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pingu
Anytime the City has tried to work with HWS on developing any sort of real community based improvement and cooperative effort HWS has just dragged its feet and chosen to ignore it or begrudgingly done the very least it had to. !

That BS charter that allows them to be tax-exempt is for a seminary college, you know, religious based education. That was given in what, 1843 or somewhere around that time. How about an audit to see if they still comply with any sort of definition of religious or theologian exemption?


if HWS paid their share along with the other tax exempts thru the benefits assessment district then the city would have collected over $15 million over the years

HWS threatened to sue the city over the benefits assessment district

and people are happy NYS gave the city a one time $10 million

some of the money from the $10 million from NYS should be used to find a method to collect 'donations' every year from the tax exempts
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