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#1464419 --- 01/03/15 05:22 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: cwjga]
Josephus Offline
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Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: Formermac

From its passage and until the late 20th century, the 2nd Amendment to the constitution was interpreted to protect the rights of states to maintain militias and for militiamen to sustain arsenals. In the early years of our country, there was no standing federal army (the founders were afraid of a national standing army consolidating power) and the states were expected to sustain a state militia in order to contribute to the national defense; this expectation necessitated protections for militias that would facilitate militiamen keeping weapons for their service.

Chief Supreme Court Justice Warren Burger—a Republican—said the following about the proposal that the 2nd Amendment is aimed at protecting every American’s right to own guns:

“…one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word ‘fraud,’ on the American public by special interest groups that I’ve ever seen in my life time. The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies—the militias—would be maintained for the defense of the state. The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires.”

BINGO! Although there had always been a standing army after the revolution, it was only the size of a brigade which would amount to about 800-1000 men at most. The defense of the nation rested largely on the militia, which came to us through English tradition. Every able-bodied man 16-60 was required to serve, and in the early days supply their own weapon and a specific amount of ammunition. THIS is what the forefathers were referring to in the 2nd amendment.



Duh! By Jove I think he's got it.

... and what legally constituted militia company do you belong to, cwggy?
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#1464425 --- 01/03/15 08:43 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Josephus]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Josephus
... and what legally constituted militia company do you belong to, cwggy?


"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." — George Mason

"It is always dangerous to the liberties of the people to have an army stationed among them, over which they have no control ... The Militia is composed of free Citizens. There is therefore no danger of their making use of their Power to the destruction of their own Rights, or suffering others to invade them." - Samuel Adams, Writings 251 (Henry A. Cushing Ed., 1906).

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms" - Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 1788 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)

"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." - Tench Coxe

"The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun." - Patrick Henry in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution, June 14, 1788, in Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution, Jonathan Elliot, ed., v.3 p.386 (Philadelphia, 1836)
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#1464426 --- 01/04/15 06:50 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: sands]
Formermac Offline
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Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 12390
Loc: Above ground
The Militia is composed of free Citizens. There is therefore no danger of their making use of their Power to the destruction of their own Rights, or suffering others to invade them." - Samuel Adams, Writings 251 (Henry A. Cushing Ed., 1906).

I'm disappointed that you've made every criminal and thug inclusive by virtue of your own misinterpretations.Without the benefit of acting childish and evasive...explain in detail how those "Citizens" shouldn't have the same gun rights as yourself in possessing or owning a gun? Explain as well the distinction between 1791 and say the West during the early periods when everyone owned a gun, some even to this day. wink
I also note how you so eloquently (ignorantly is more accurate) state the premise of the Constitutional rights of gun ownership yet looking back over the years it was apparent that certain basic rights were not originally extended (stated but not given) to some people. I think where your confusion lies is in the fact that human rights and privileges are distinctively different. You stand on the premise of debating other's rights yet defend to the point of being obnoxious and repetitive and falsely believing that it alters the opinion and belief of others.....remember that I in fact possess a gun permit yet see the need to limit the craziness of owning vast arsenals and military weapons just because the "Constitution" stated that I have that right.....wrong. Ownership is a privileged not just extended to your selected narrowed minded views. Thus the reason(s) the Constitution has been amended at times due to exclusions and oversights.

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#1464428 --- 01/04/15 08:50 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Formermac]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Of course Sands twists the 2nd amendment to his own uses and injects quotes that have no relevance to the topic of this thread (concealed carry permits) and, while perhaps meaningful in their full historical context, are just plain nonsense in 21st century America. For example "It is always dangerous to the liberties of the people to have an army stationed among them, over which they have no control ... The Militia is composed of free Citizens." Is this to imply that the "militia," comprised of "the whole people" is some sort of buffer between the US military and the general populace?

Sands presents no argument or rationale for carrying a concealed weapon at all time and in all places. I believe it is the misguided sense of danger and threats lurking in the shadows everywhere that he espouses is the same paranoid mindset that was shared led that woman in Hayden, Idaho. Why else would someone be carrying a handgun concealed in a handbag while shopping with her children at Walmart.

The premise of this thread is that more people carrying concealed weapons results in a reduction in murder and violent crime (Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise). However, it is well accepted by people familiar with scientific methods and statistics that correlation is not the same thing as causation. John Lott, whose Crime Prevention Research Center published the article that Sands quoting, has perhaps made the mistake of concentrating on data that support his conclusions. His work is challenged by equally well educated researchers and there are allegations that his work is sponsored by representatives of the gun industry as well as the NRA, which would lend support to a question of bias on Lott's part.

According to Lott, "“When you allow people to carry concealed handguns, you see changes in the behavior of criminals." That may be true (no empirical evidence is provided to support the claim) but if so, it also means that there is a change in behavior on the part of the person carrying the concealed gun. When gun advocates claim that guns protect people, they omit to say that guns protect people in situations that would not have been dangerous in the first place if the guns had been left at home.

Which brings us back to the tragic accident in Hayden. What was Veronica Rutledge afraid of -- so afraid that she felt the need to carry a gun everywhere she went.

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#1464429 --- 01/04/15 09:10 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 12390
Loc: Above ground
I have a question, if your weapon is concealed, how does the criminal know that you possess a pistol in the first place? I'm assuming that said gun owner uses a fear factor that readily give them this false sense of power and authority and openly possess this Dirty Harry mentality which in itself becomes a very dangerous scenario of basically picking a fight between them and the assumed perpetrator(s). Note that more usual than not,the gun owner is more likely to kill their own family member due to this consumed fear and willingness to shoot first rather than rationalize. In the case you've cited, a innocent 2 year old lost a mother at his hands but more sadly, lost it due to ignorance on her part.

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#1464430 --- 01/04/15 09:36 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Formermac]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
I have a question, if your weapon is concealed, how does the criminal know that you possess a pistol in the first place?
I believe the traditional reply from concealed carry advocates is that no one knows who is carrying, and therefore, criminals are less likely to attempt a robbery, rape, assault, etc. The problem with that line of thinking is that is the bad guy assumes you are carrying a concealed weapon, he/she will probably take you out first before proceeding with their intended act. In other words, he won't say "give me your wallet," he'll be more likely to whcak you over the head or have his gun drawn on you first.

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#1464432 --- 01/04/15 10:50 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
Why else would someone be carrying a handgun concealed in a handbag while shopping with her children at Walmart.


12/23/14 -- Walmart workers shot at while in parking lot of store in California

12/23/14 -- One dead and two injured in shooting at Mississippi Walmart

12/21/14 -- Shots fired in Wisconsin Walmart parking lot -- no injuries

12/18/14 -- Suicidal Walmart employee shot by officers in Toronto, Canada -- one injury

12/16/14 -- Off-duty policeman shoots shoplifter at Texas Walmart after being stabbed

12/10/14 -- Argument leads to fatal shooting outside a Texas Walmart -- one dead

12/8/14 -- Man shot in the abdomen during fight at Kentucky Walmart -- one injury

12/2/14 -- Shots fired outside a Virginia Walmart store -- no injuries

11/22/14 -- Police open fire on Walmart shoplifter who dragged officer with truck in New York

11/18/14 -- Men fire gun during shoplifting of TV at Dallas Walmart -- no injuries

11/16/14 -- Shots fired by conceal carry permit holder during fight at Pennsylvania Walmart -- no injuries

11/7/14 -- Man armed with hammers shot by off-duty secret service agent at North Virginia Walmart -- one injury

10/29/14 -- Three gunmen rob safe from New Mexico Walmart and shoot at store -- no injuries

10/27/14 -- Man shot and killed by transient at a Colorado Walmart -- one dead

10/22/14 -- Man robbed at gunpoint for game system in Oklahoma Walmart parking lot; shot fired -- no injuries

10/11/14 -- Robbers fire at couple and young son at Tennessee Walmart -- no injuries

10/5/14 -- Shoplifters open fire when confronted in a California Walmart -- no injuries

10/5/14 -- Officer shot by shoplifter at Alabama Walmart -- one injury

10/1/14 -- Marijuana heist in Washington Walmart parking lot turns into defensive shooting -- one injury

9/30/14 -- Deputy shoots and kills gunman in Washington Walmart parking lot -- one dead

9/25/14 -- Tennessee Walmart security guard shoots man during shoplifting beer and dog food -- one injury

9/16/14 -- Ohio man fires gun in Walmart parking lot during domestic dispute -- no injuries

9/10/14 -- Police shoot to death sword-wielding man on edge of Utah Walmart parking lot -- one dead

9/8/14 -- Argument leads to shooting in Alaska Walmart parking lot -- one injury

9/6/14 -- North Carolina teen wounded in Walmart shooting -- one injury

8/27/14 -- Man shot and killed at Dallas Walmart gas station; officer kills suspect -- two dead

8/16/14 -- Officer opens fire on suspect at Oregon Walmart -- no injuries

8/11/14 -- Officer shoots attacking pit bull in Texas Walmart parking lot -- no (human) injuries

8/9/14 -- Man injured in shooting at Kansas City Walmart parking lot -- one injury

8/5/14 -- Ohio man waves realistic-looking pellet rifle at Walmart customers; shot dead by police -- one dead (plus another due to unrelated medical issues)

8/3/14 -- North Carolina man fires gun as "warning shot" in parking lot of a Walmart store -- no injuries

7/11/14 -- Shot fired during arrest of Walmart shoplifter in Oklahoma -- no injuries

7/10/14 -- Drug deal leads to shooting at Tennessee Walmart -- one injury

7/9/14 -- Man shot and killed in Florida Walmart parking lot -- one dead

7/8/14 -- Felon fires gun in California Walmart parking lot -- no injuries

7/6/14 -- Shots fired during altercation in Utah Walmart parking lot -- no injuries

7/2/14 -- Officer fires on shoplifters after they run him over in Louisiana Walmart -- no injuries (from shooting, one officer injured from being run over)

6/30/14 -- Man shot during transaction in Indiana Walmart parking lot -- one injury

6/10/14 -- Drug deal leads to shooting in Missouri Walmart bathroom -- one injury

6/8/14 -- Political extremists kill three before being killed in Nevada Walmart - three dead (in Walmart, two in a neighboring pizza restaurant)

6/7/14 -- Man wounded at California Walmart Neighborhood Market -- one injured

6/4/14 -- Shots fired at car in North Carolina Walmart parking lot -- no injuries

6/4/14 -- Shots fired during robbery at North Carolina Walmart -- no injuries

6/4/14 -- Jealous ex-husband shoots rival at New York Walmart -- one injury

6/2/14 -- Drug deal gone bad leads to three people shot at Oklahoma Walmart -- one dead, two injured

5/26/14 -- Man shot to death at Florida Walmart -- one dead

5/17/14 -- Woman shot in eye by man with BB gun in Walmart parking lot -- one injury

5/17/14 -- Ohio teen fires shots in Walmart parking lot after car crash -- no injuries

5/11/14 -- "Drug deal gone bad" at NC Walmart leads to shooting that ends at Sam's Club -- no injuries

5/9/14 -- Police officer shoots suspect in Missouri Walmart parking lot -- one injury

5/9/14 -- Deputy wounds drug dealer in Alabama Walmart parking lot -- one injury

5/7/14 -- Man fires gun at woman in Tennessee Walmart parking lot -- no injuries

5/6/14 -- Man fires gun during robbery at California Walmart -- no injuries

5/6/14 -- Man with realistic pellet gun shot and wounded by police at Colorado Walmart -- one injury

5/4/14 -- Fight outside of Texas Walmart lead to one man shot and wounded -- one injury

4/26/14 -- Gang shooting at Texas Walmart wounds one young man -- one injury

4/22/14 -- Drug bust goes bad; undercover officer and suspect both shot -- two injuries

4/15/14 -- Off-duty officer shoots wanted felon in Alabama Walmart parking lot -- one injury

4/11/14 -- FBI arrest of drug-dealing gang member leads to fatal shooting at Maryland Sam's Club -- one dead

4/11/14 -- Shootout in New Mexico Walmart parking lot wounds 3-year old girl -- one injury

4/11/14 -- Man shot and killed by police in Georgia Walmart parking lot -- one dead

4/11/14 -- Robbery leads to shooting in North Carolina Walmart parking lot -- no injuries

4/3/14 -- Wanted man shot by officer in California Walmart parking lot -- one injured

3/21/14 -- Man tries to steal rifle from Texas Walmart and is shot by police -- one dead

3/13/14 -- Gunman robs elderly man at South Carolina Walmart; victim then fires at robber -- no injuries

3/4/14 -- Colorado woman shot at by boyfriend behind Walmart Neighborhood Market -- no injuries

3/3/14 -- Domestic shooting at a Walmart in Georgia -- one injured

2/23/14 -- Teenage shoplifter opens fire on shoppers at South Carolina Walmart -- no injuries

2/20/14 -- Football star shot in road rage incident at Tennessee Walmart -- one injury

2/16/14 -- Louisiana deputy fires at Walmart robber in parking lot -- no apparent injuries

2/16/14 -- Fight in Arizona Walmart leads to man shot to death -- one dead

2/13/14 -- Shots fired in Craigslist robbery at Texas Walmart -- no injuries

2/6/14 -- Man fires at vehicle in Oklahoma Walmart parking lot -- no injuries

2/4/14 -- Shots fired during Craigslist robbery at Florida Walmart -- no injuries

2/2/14 -- Walmart employee shoots another at Arkansas Walmart -- one injured

1/29/14 -- Two young men found shot to death in Tennessee Walmart parking lot -- two dead

1/24/14 -- Man shot at North Carolina Walmart -- one injured

1/15/14 -- Purse-snatcher fires at employees at Texas Walmart -- no injuries

1/11/14 -- Man attempts to kill estranged wife in Tennessee Sam's Club parking lot -- one injury
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#1464434 --- 01/04/15 11:29 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Formermac]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Formermac
I'm disappointed that you've made every criminal and thug inclusive by virtue of your own misinterpretations.

Better read that first quote again....

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." — George Mason
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#1464435 --- 01/04/15 11:59 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: sands]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 12390
Loc: Above ground
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: Formermac
I'm disappointed that you've made every criminal and thug inclusive by virtue of your own misinterpretations.

Better read that first quote again....

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." — George Mason





better read another thing George quoted


"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason

I'm glad that you can contradict yourself pretty much on all you've attempt to argue.

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#1464437 --- 01/04/15 01:26 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Josephus]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: Formermac

From its passage and until the late 20th century, the 2nd Amendment to the constitution was interpreted to protect the rights of states to maintain militias and for militiamen to sustain arsenals. In the early years of our country, there was no standing federal army (the founders were afraid of a national standing army consolidating power) and the states were expected to sustain a state militia in order to contribute to the national defense; this expectation necessitated protections for militias that would facilitate militiamen keeping weapons for their service.

Chief Supreme Court Justice Warren Burger—a Republican—said the following about the proposal that the 2nd Amendment is aimed at protecting every American’s right to own guns:

“…one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word ‘fraud,’ on the American public by special interest groups that I’ve ever seen in my life time. The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies—the militias—would be maintained for the defense of the state. The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires.”

BINGO! Although there had always been a standing army after the revolution, it was only the size of a brigade which would amount to about 800-1000 men at most. The defense of the nation rested largely on the militia, which came to us through English tradition. Every able-bodied man 16-60 was required to serve, and in the early days supply their own weapon and a specific amount of ammunition. THIS is what the forefathers were referring to in the 2nd amendment.



Duh! By Jove I think he's got it.

... and what legally constituted militia company do you belong to, cwggy?


Oh, and there you lost it again. frown
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#1464439 --- 01/04/15 02:47 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: sands]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
Why else would someone be carrying a handgun concealed in a handbag while shopping with her children at Walmart.


12/23/14 -- Walmart workers shot at while in parking lot of store in California

12/23/14 -- One dead and two injured in shooting at Mississippi Walmart

12/21/14 -- Shots fired in Wisconsin Walmart parking lot -- no injuries

12/18/14 -- Suicidal Walmart employee shot by officers in Toronto, Canada -- one injury

******** and the list goes on to....

1/11/14 -- Man attempts to kill estranged wife in Tennessee Sam's Club parking lot -- one injury


Quite a list, but without context it's difficult to see how any of these justify carrying a concealed gun. Since you seem to have copied the list from WalmartShootings.blogspot.com, I took a brief look to see what could be learned. It was noted that of the shootings listed for 2014, only 4 were ruled as legitimate self defense (excluding law enforcement). Far more appear to be the result of domestic disputes, or ordinary arguments escalating to violence and sometimes death. In those cases, the presence of a gun made the situation worse, not better. In any event, you've listed a few sad incidents. But to provide some perspective, there are over 4,200 Walmart stores in the US, serving over 100,000,000 customers per week. So it would seem that even counting drug deals (your reason for going to Walmart?) and police involved shootings, you've listed 79 events out of more and half a BILLION customers served during the year. Your chances of being involved in one of those are infinitesimal, and use of a gun to defend yourself even smaller still.

So I repeat, there's no reason to be carrying a concealed handgun while shopping at Walmart (unless you're going there to shoplift, participate in a drug deal or other criminal activity) and the mere presence of a gun will probably do nothing to protect you -- it's far more likely to result in a tragic event such the one in Hayden, Idaho.

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#1464445 --- 01/04/15 05:15 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
there's no reason not to be carrying a concealed handgun while shopping at Walmart


FIFY
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#1464446 --- 01/04/15 05:31 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 12390
Loc: Above ground
LMBO, Sands hasn't caught on to the fact that when he does supply citation, it's usually nothing related to the subject at hand, in this case, concealed weapons lowering murder rate but Mr. Einstein negates to follow a set rule or pattern....respond with something pertaining the question posed. Also very laughable is the fact that his citations reflected domestic violence, not a 2 year old accidentally shooting his mother at the expense of her ignorance, which I assumed was the original question pose by Lucinda. Also Sands, it appears that more of those concealed gun incidents, the owners were their own worse enemy......sad to see that those poor crows shot like that. cry

http://walmartshootings.blogspot.com/p/running-list-of-2014-walmart-shootings.html

It appears that a refresher course in gun handling is needed for many officers.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natio...mself/21267619/

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#1464447 --- 01/04/15 07:36 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: sands]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: Josephus
... and what legally constituted militia company do you belong to, cwggy?


I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.[/i]" — George Mason

I think it's cute that George Mason, Sam Adams, et. al have opinions on what they think constitutes a militia. Unfortunately for them (and you), we're talking about the legal definition here.
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#1464448 --- 01/04/15 07:41 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: cwjga]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: cwjga

Oh, and there you lost it again. frown

I haven't lost anything. I'll ask the question in another way... maybe it will be easier for you to understand. Who is the Captain of your militia company?
_________________________
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#1464449 --- 01/04/15 08:41 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
But to provide some perspective, there are over 4,200 Walmart stores in the US, serving over 100,000,000 customers per week. you've listed one events in Hayden, Idaho out of more and than half a BILLION customers served during the year. Your chances of being involved in one of those are infinitesimal

FIFY
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#1464450 --- 01/04/15 10:02 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: sands]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
But to provide some perspective, there are over 4,200 Walmart stores in the US, serving over 100,000,000 customers per week. you've listed one events in Hayden, Idaho out of more and than half a BILLION customers served during the year. Your chances of being involved in one of those are infinitesimal

FIFY
Fixed it? As usual, moron, all you've done is twist something around to suit your own gun happy, carry everywhere, ready to shoot agenda, "fixing it" to fit in your own world view that there's something to be feared everywhere. Are you seriously making the absurd claim that this is the only instance in which carrying a concealed handgun has resulted in unnecessary death? Carrying a gun everywhere may help with your own insecurity about facing day to day living, but it must be a pathetic mental state that you live in. Carrying a gun at all times doesn't make the average citizen any safer -- it just feeds into a delusional mental state that there are threats lurking everywhere. The fact remains that if Veronica Rutledge had left her gun at home instead of carrying with her while shopping with her two year old son, she'd be alive today.

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#1464455 --- 01/05/15 05:52 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Josephus]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: cwjga

Oh, and there you lost it again. frown

I haven't lost anything. I'll ask the question in another way... maybe it will be easier for you to understand. Who is the Captain of your militia company?


Nope pretty sure you lost it, Thought you had it. But you lost it.
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#1464456 --- 01/05/15 05:57 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Josephus]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 12390
Loc: Above ground
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: cwjga

Oh, and there you lost it again. frown

I haven't lost anything. I'll ask the question in another way... maybe it will be easier for you to understand. Who is the Captain of your militia company?


Good morning Josephus, to answer your question, based on the adolescence being displayed by cwjga, I would say that CapN Crunch is his leader. smile

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#1464458 --- 01/05/15 06:10 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
As usual, moron,

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