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#1463093 --- 11/15/14 01:33 PM Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise, study claims

A dramatic spike in the number of Americans with permits to carry concealed weapons coincides with an equally stark drop in violent crime, according to a new study, which Second Amendment advocates say makes the case that more guns can mean safer streets.

The study by the Crime Prevention Research Center found that 11.1 million Americans now have permits to carry concealed weapons, up from 4.5 million in 2007. The 146 percent increase has come even as both murder and violent crime rates have dropped by 22 percent.

“When you allow people to carry concealed handguns, you see changes in the behavior of criminals," said the center’s president, John R. Lott, a Fox News contributor. “Some criminals stop committing crimes, others move on to crimes in which they don’t come into contact with victims and others actually move to areas where they have less fear of being confronted by armed victims.”

“When you allow people to carry concealed handguns, you see changes in the behavior of criminals."
- John R. Lott, Crime Prevention Research Center
Increasing gun ownership, litigation and new state laws have all contributed to the rise in concealed carry permits. In March, Illinois became the 50th state to begin issuing concealed weapons permits. But the cost and other requirements for obtaining the permits varies greatly, from South Dakota, where a permit requires $10, a background check and no training, to Illinois, where the cost of obtaining a permit comes to more than $600 when the fee and cost of training programs are taken into account.

Six states don’t require a permit for legal gun owners to conceal their weapons, and Lott notes those states have some of the lowest violent crime rates in the nation.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/09/murder-drops-as-concealed-carry-permits-rise-claims-study/
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#1463112 --- 11/16/14 07:45 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: sands]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14346
Loc: CNY

Thread Moved. smirk
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1463129 --- 11/16/14 12:28 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Timbo]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Timbo

Thread Moved. smirk


Nope. Still right here smirk
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#1463207 --- 11/17/14 08:46 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: sands]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: Timbo

Thread Moved. smirk


Nope. Still right here smirk
It Begins: Buffalo PD to Confiscate Registered Guns from Families of Deceased

Buffalo’s Police Commissioner, Daniel Derrenda made the announcement recently at a press conference.

Commissioner Derrenda said that the department will be sending people to collect guns that belong to pistol permit holders who had died so “they don’t end up in the wrong hands.” The department will cross reference pistol permit holders with death records and the guns will be collected when possible, he said.

There is, until now a rarely enforced law in New York, that states if the handgun permit holder dies, the estate has 15 days to dispose of the firearms or turn them over to authorities, who can hold the weapons for up to two years, or a family member could face a misdemeanor charge that can carry a fine and up to a year in jail.

Dominic Saraceno, a Buffalo defense attorney, said he anticipates legal challenges. He is concerned that family members may simply allow police to retrieve the guns while not realizing their value.

“These gun collections can value into the hundreds of thousands,” he said. “If a police officer came to my door without a warrant signed by a judge, I’m not giving them anything. Most people don’t know that and get intimidated.”

The fact that the Buffalo PD fully intends to track death certificates in order to determine if the deceased had a registered handgun so they can “force” the family to hand it over, is unconscionable. What they are doing gives a reprehensible, near-literal meaning to the phrase coined by Mr. Charlton Heston, “[If they want my gun they’ll have to pry it] from my cold, dead hands!”

What of the families? Fifteen days are hardly a reasonable amount of time to grieve for the loss of their loved ones, let alone tackle the heart-breaking task of sorting through their possessions and determining who should inherit which item, including which guns may be valuable or sentimental heirloom firearms.

“They’re quick to say they’re [BPD] going to take the guns,” said Tom King, president of the New York State Rifle & Pistol Association. “But they don’t tell you the law doesn’t apply to long guns, or that these families can sell [their loved one's] pistol or apply to keep it.”

King said enforcing the state law is the latest example of authorities targeting law-abiding gun owners, while doing little to secure the streets.

This is a thinly disguised, gun-grabbing technique that proves that the pro-Second Amendment crowd was right all along.

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#1463229 --- 11/18/14 02:12 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Timbo]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
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#1463232 --- 11/18/14 03:31 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: sands]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
That's meme is quite appropriate for you, Sands, seeing as how you have the intellect and maturity of a five year old

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#1463233 --- 11/18/14 03:40 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
That's That meme is quite appropriate for you, Sands, seeing as how you have the intellect and maturity of a five year old

That meme is quite appropriate for you, Lucinda, seeing how you are a liberal annoyed by facts whistle
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#1463247 --- 11/18/14 07:51 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: sands]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
What's factual about your silly picture with a caption? Oh, I see, it's a picture (fact 1) and has a silly caption (fact 2). and (fact 3) it's appropriate for about a 5 year mentality, so it fits well with your style of expression. What does irritate liberals, however, is seeing dunderheads like you trying to "correct" the phrases used by other people when in fact they are perfectly acceptable colloquialisms used commonly in informal writing.

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#1463273 --- 11/19/14 02:09 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: sands]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
That's That meme is quite appropriate for you, Sands, seeing as how you have the intellect and maturity of a five year old

That meme is quite appropriate for you, Lucinda, seeing how you are a liberal annoyed by facts whistle


grin
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#1463949 --- 12/14/14 07:58 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: sands]
Hard Corps Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/12
Posts: 764
Loc: The Village
Kudos to the good citizens who are refusing to be victims.
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I got called an extremist. THANK YOU! That made my day.

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#1464337 --- 12/31/14 09:05 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Hard Corps]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Hard Corps
Kudos to the good citizens who are refusing to be victims.

Well, here's a sad story about a good citizen whose concealed carry permit wound up causing her death:

It happened just north of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, at a Walmart store in the small city of Hayden, which is about the size of Geneva, though apparently somewhat more affluent.

Toddler Accidentally Shoots His Mother

The victim had a concealed weapon permit issued in her home city of Spokane, Washington. Based on the crime rate in Spokane (more than double the national average) one can understand why this woman might have wanted a gun at home. But what was she so fearful of that she felt a need to carry while shopping with her kids at Walmart in a place like Hayden? Do we really live in a society where one must be armed at all times and be ready to shoot in a fraction of a second?? Then there's the question of judgment in placing a handgun within reach of a two year old -- one without some sort of safety mechanism (even if only an empty chamber in a revolver).

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#1464338 --- 12/31/14 09:39 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 12390
Loc: Above ground
Statistic dictates that many gun homicides are committed not by strangers but more so by someone the victims knew. Case in point, most school mass murders, committed by a class mate. A really sad commentary of worrying about strangers while negating to understand that we become our own worse enemy by bringing into the home the very thing we construe as protection now become the tools for in house homicides/suicides. For God sake, protect yourselves but use common sense along with precaution.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/30/world/americas/edmonton-killings/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/are...-207958831.html

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#1464351 --- 12/31/14 11:11 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: sands]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Sands, you're a heartless idiot. There's probably no depravity that you wouldn't defend. Difference in these two tragedies is that the family needed the truck versus whether the woman killed in Idaho needed to be carrying a loaded gun while shopping at Walmart in a safe place.

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#1464358 --- 01/01/15 08:04 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 12390
Loc: Above ground

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#1464362 --- 01/01/15 10:41 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Formermac]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
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#1464364 --- 01/01/15 11:37 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: sands]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
sandy just loves his Apples and Oranges...
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I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1464366 --- 01/01/15 11:58 PM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Josephus]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 12390
Loc: Above ground
Originally Posted By: Josephus
sandy just loves his Apples and Oranges...


Remember, we're dealing with someone that complains about success and humanity yet praises failure and a 18 month baby dying through a tragic event. As you've noted, none of his responses relates to the subject at hand but some irrelevant nonsense and readily showcase it as life learned wisdom. laugh
Happy New Year Sands, when claiming to be an adult, conduct one's self as an mature adult...something to strive for in 2015????????? wink Our younger generation could use a few more role models.


Edited by FL1 Mod 2 (01/02/15 09:45 AM)

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#1464370 --- 01/02/15 08:04 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: cwjga]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Why is it that cwjie and Sands are so manifestly perverse when it come to guns? (I don't find this to be true of all conservative leaning people) It would appear that they believe there is no difference between a woman being killed by a hit and run driver and a curious unattended two year old unzipping a pocket on his mother's new purse, funding a handgun and pulling the trigger, killing his mother. What paranoid delusions do they suffer from that they argue for the "right" to be armed and ready to kill in an instant if "threatened," when common sense tells us that there's no need to be carrying a gun while shopping with your kids at Walmart.

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#1464371 --- 01/02/15 08:20 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
Formermac Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 12390
Loc: Above ground


Both love and proudly state the fact that they're CONSERVATIVE

The origins of American liberalism lie in the political ideals of the Enlightenment
Look of the antonym of enlightenment and you have your answer. wink


http://www.thesaurus.net/antonyms-for/enlightenment

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#1464372 --- 01/02/15 09:46 AM Re: Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise [Re: Formermac]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Sorry, Mac, but what does be a conservative have to do with it? I believe there are a great many conservatives, even staunch defenders if the 2nd amendment, who don't feel the need to be carrying a gun everywhere they go.

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