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#1460910 --- 10/08/14 09:17 AM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: loyal]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 143
And, at the risk of sounding ignorant: who or what is the planning board and zoning board of appeals? Who are these people? Are they elected or appointed? What's the process? Is money exchanged? Do they have a budget?

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#1460911 --- 10/08/14 09:25 AM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: ruby2]
cwjga Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 9838
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: ruby2
And, at the risk of sounding ignorant: who or what is the planning board and zoning board of appeals? Who are these people? Are they elected or appointed? What's the process? Is money exchanged? Do they have a budget?


easy to find out

http://www.dos.ny.gov/lg/publications/Zoning_Board_of_Appeals.pdf

http://www.dos.ny.gov/lg/onlinetraining/planning_board_overview_courseoutline.html
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#1460913 --- 10/08/14 09:36 AM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: loyal]
Grace44 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/14
Posts: 46
Loc: New York, Ontario Co. USA
Which came first - the chicken or the egg?

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#1460921 --- 10/08/14 02:37 PM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: loyal]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 143
Well, I did my homework and looked at the links cwjga supplied, ( I'm not near smart enough for that, but thanks for the effort). I googled planning board on wickipedia, they have a nice overview. And, I went on to Ontario county website for info.

Here's what little I got on the PB and it is just speculatin' at this point. I think members from each town and city in Ontario county are appointed to the Ontario board. These members are chosen by either the mayor, city manager or council of the particular city/town.

I could get no info on who our appointed person is. I got an old name of Joe d'amico,but he is no longer our guy. Who is our guy and who appointed him? Anyone know?

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#1460925 --- 10/08/14 03:07 PM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: ruby2]
cwjga Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 9838
Loc: NY
Don't think the Ontario board has any jurisdiction over this action

I would be the cities ZBA. The ZBA performs a different function than the Planning Board.

The whole thing would have been easy, once the Planning board approved the site plan, Jeff just needed to go before the ZBA to get a variance on the set back required.

Happens all the time.

Just me, and I could be wrong, but it seems that Jeff likes to cause controversy where there isn't much. Great free advertising.
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#1460930 --- 10/08/14 05:01 PM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: cwjga]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2744
Loc: Yates County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Don't think the Ontario board has any jurisdiction over this action

I would be the cities ZBA. The ZBA performs a different function than the Planning Board.

The whole thing would have been easy, once the Planning board approved the site plan, Jeff just needed to go before the ZBA to get a variance on the set back required.

Happens all the time.

Just me, and I could be wrong, but it seems that Jeff likes to cause controversy where there isn't much. Great free advertising.




I speak from experience, to quote Forrest Gump, when you are dealing with a ZBA. "life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your going to get" ZBA's are usually appointed non-paid positions. The members have to go thru a checklist of questions before deciding on whether to grant a particular variance, whether its a "use" variance or a "setback" variance. Years ago I had a building inspector look at my staked out property when I planned on building. I had him out twice. Both times he told me the stakes were fine, all I needed to do was go before the ZBA to get a variance. He neglected to tell me that getting the variance might be very difficult.
A person applying for a variance is at the mercy of the ZBA board. Most times if the right answers to the checklist of questions doesn't meet the required criteria, then the variance request is denied. The ZBA can do what they want, but if they stick to the format, most times they will deny a variance request, especially if people are there to object who live nearby.

Looks like the city is trying to cover their butts by requiring the owner to go before the ZBA. That will preclude the complainers from filing a lawsuit against the city for not following the proper procedures. Looks like someone dropped the ball by granting approval when it should have been referred to the ZBA. It is what it is!
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#1460942 --- 10/08/14 07:15 PM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: loyal]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 143
Mean gene, what you say makes sense. I felt there was something off about the whole deal between Mr Henderson and the city, but I couldn't figure out what it was.

I tend to sympathize with Mr Henderson. It felt to me like he had been led to believe he had a "go" from the city, then he and others invest time and money into the project only to be told, sorry, one more very critical step is required, and now lawyers, etc. What a sad state of affairs! I hope they can work something out.

And, thank you for your clear and lucid rendition of the situation. Very believable, for me at least.


Edited by ruby2 (10/08/14 07:17 PM)

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#1460980 --- 10/09/14 07:41 AM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: Mean Gene]
Oogie Offline
Member

Registered: 05/06/11
Posts: 101
Loc: Geneva, NY
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Just me, and I could be wrong, but it seems that Jeff likes to cause controversy where there isn't much. Great free advertising.


You are correct. Mr. Henderson's semi-regular public displays of Grand Indignation, which unfortunately hint of narcissism, seem encoded in his DNA. It doesn't reflect well on him but it does draw attention.


Originally Posted By: Mean Gene

Looks like the city is trying to cover their butts by requiring the owner to go before the ZBA. That will preclude the complainers from filing a lawsuit against the city for not following the proper procedures. Looks like someone dropped the ball by granting approval when it should have been referred to the ZBA. It is what it is!


Exactly. But even with all their t's dotted and i's crossed (it is Geneva, after all) the city should anticipate lawsuits resulting from this endeavor, regardless of the principals' good intentions. There will be rats. There will be guano stench. And when little Susie Q comes down with salmonella from one of those eggs...well, we live in an age of lawsuits, and you can rest assured that none - NONE - of the individual principals will help defray those costs.

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#1460984 --- 10/09/14 08:38 AM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: Oogie]
cwjga Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 9838
Loc: NY
The city is not trying to cover it's butt. They are trying to follow law.

Just think if this was an gas well. Or do we treat people differently based on who they are.
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#1461004 --- 10/09/14 01:15 PM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: loyal]
Grace44 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/14
Posts: 46
Loc: New York, Ontario Co. USA
Having been born in Geneva and lived here and worked here for 40 years, I have to say that- YES, it seems we do treat people differently based on who they are, as noted by cwig posted. I have seen it happen over and over again through many years, and many city administrations. By "we" I mean city administrations and councilors and their stooges. I don't see why Mr. Henderson should receive special treatment or why he thinks he should.

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#1461014 --- 10/09/14 03:32 PM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: loyal]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 143
Grace44, yes, but don't you think he was led on, so to speak. Led to believe all was okay for him to invest time and money in the property and chickens, and cleaning the property etc.

And, also, although I don't know him personally, I think the muscleman race he brings to Geneva is very valuable to the city in so many ways. And it keeps growing.

I hope the man gets a break on this.

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#1461016 --- 10/09/14 04:31 PM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: cwjga]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2744
Loc: Yates County
Originally Posted By: cwjga
The city is not trying to cover it's butt. They are trying to follow law.

Just think if this was an gas well. Or do we treat people differently based on who they are.



Call it what you want, obviously the Planning Board did not refer the paperwork to the City attorney for an opinion if there was a zoning question. Either that or the attorney missed the setback requirement that has been talked about if he did review it.

Bottom line, the City would expose themselves to attack for not following the proper procedures if they did not force him to apply for a variance. The city decided that battling the owner was the battle of choice for them to pursue. If no one raised a stink then none of this would be happening.
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"Rational arguments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people"

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#1461035 --- 10/09/14 10:00 PM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: loyal]
genevaparent Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 163
Loc: Geneva NY
I think the mayor should ask the zoning board to hold a special session and grant Mr Henderson his waver. This is an innovative project that will be run well. It elevates Geneva, to an enlightened and progressive city. The "not in my back yard" types will try to block anything. Has a single opposer actually gone to see the site. The chickens are very little, way in the back. Everything looks great. It could be a great community resource to unite the neighborhood and bring people together.

The city should be ASHAMED of the way they have handled this. I am embarrassed for the city of Geneva.

I think I may actually join the co-op. Let's all join the co-op!!

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#1461038 --- 10/10/14 12:17 AM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: loyal]
ruby2 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 143
... Fresh eggs--from chickens not raised on factory farms-- are very, very tasty, delicious!

... And someone mentioned salmonella from eggs. Don't eat raw eggs. Cook them, they are safe. A small cluster of chickens out in the sun, eating good old bugs and seeds, hanging with the gals, will not produce bad eggs. No noise, no issues as there is no rooster.

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#1461043 --- 10/10/14 01:09 AM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: ruby2]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
They're more nutritious when raw, and that's the only way I lke them...I make eggnog. Salmonella is actually quite rare, and actually, one of the best ways to lessen its incidence is to avoid factory farmed eggs, and go organic. I can keep chickens here, and plan to get a few in the spring. Here's Mercola's advice on eggs:


http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2002/11/13/eggs-part-two.aspx
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#1461099 --- 10/10/14 01:12 PM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: loyal]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2744
Loc: Yates County
I read in the paper where Judge Aronsen denied the Cities request that things stop at the site and directed the issue to go to the Zoning Board of Appeals. It would be great if Mr. Henderson had a witness to his being told that he did not have to do a variance request, as he stated in the article that he was prepared to and was told by the ZBA chair that he didn't need to?

Seems though the ZBA needs to save face if this is so and grant him his variance that he is being required to file for after the fact. smile
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"Rational arguments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people"

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#1461293 --- 10/14/14 05:51 AM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: genevaparent]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1561
Loc: New York, Seneca
Originally Posted By: genevaparent
The "not in my back yard" types will try to block anything. Has a single opposer actually gone to see the site. The chickens are very little, way in the back. Everything looks great. It could be a great community resource to unite the neighborhood and bring people together.

The city should be ASHAMED of the way they have handled this. I am embarrassed for the city of Geneva.

I think I may actually join the co-op. Let's all join the co-op!!

anyone who is intrested in preserving their PROPERTY RIGHTS should join. There are a few on the city council who think they need to control every aspect of your life.
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#1461308 --- 10/14/14 09:17 AM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: loyal]
Grace44 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/14
Posts: 46
Loc: New York, Ontario Co. USA
I guess those on City Council "who think they need to control every aspect of your life" have succeeded. The high taxes in Geneva, the outrageously high water and sewer rates, etc. actually do control our lives. How many of us struggle to meet our tax obligations, and maintain our property while sacrificing other things (such as good health plans, higher education for our children, and things that we can't afford due to the cost of living forced on us by taxing entities. In that way, Council is controlling our lives.

And now we waste more money on potential litigation about chickens. As a city property owner and taxpayer, I resent this whole debacle (and I don't live near the "chicken area". Not only has Council done the city a dis-service, but so has Henderson, INMO.

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#1461318 --- 10/14/14 11:59 AM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: loyal]
SocratesJr Offline
Member

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 42
Loc: Geneva
As for one who grew up in the State/Genesee Street area: there was the canning factory, frequent rail traffic, barking dogs; abandoned, decrepit canning factory buildings, barking dogs; factory buildings turned to a wasteland, frequent rail traffic, barking dogs.
Today, a much better-looking area, still with rail traffic, loud horn blasts at State and North St. crossings, still barking dogs.
With the co-op, a nicely groomed space, still with rail traffic and loud horn blasts, barking dogs. Addition? quiet hens! No roosters crowing! Still barking dogs.
I do not know Jeff Henderson, but wish him and the co-op members luck! We have a city administration which does not know what either hand of it is doing! Permission - no permission - should have gone to... didn't go to... told not necessary, then AFTER the fact, yes, needs to go there!
Wishing the best for Jeff and the co-op! Good luck!
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#1461656 --- 10/18/14 11:26 AM Re: Chicken coop/solar farm. [Re: loyal]
SocratesJr Offline
Member

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 42
Loc: Geneva
As for one who grew up in the State/Genesee Street area: there was the canning factory, frequent rail traffic, barking dogs; abandoned, decrepit canning factory buildings, barking dogs; factory buildings turned to a wasteland, frequent rail traffic, barking dogs.
Today, a much better-looking area, still with rail traffic, loud horn blasts at State and North St. crossings, still barking dogs.
With the co-op, a nicely groomed space, still with rail traffic and loud horn blasts, barking dogs. Addition? quiet hens! No roosters crowing! Still barking dogs.
I do not know Jeff Henderson, but wish him and the co-op members luck! We have a city administration which does not know what either hand of it is doing! Permission - no permission - should have gone to... didn't go to... told not necessary, then AFTER the fact, yes, needs to go there!
Wishing the best for Jeff and the co-op! Good luck!
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Invisible threads are the strongest ties

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