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#1443240 --- 04/04/14 12:54 PM GM recall
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
gm has a recall
the car can turn off while the car is being driven
no steering, no brakes and no air bag
some recommend not driving the car until it is fixed
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#1443368 --- 04/05/14 11:52 AM Re: GM recall [Re: bluezone]
young guns Offline
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Registered: 04/09/13
Posts: 836
Loc: USA
13 dead because of it. The part needed to fix is .35 but the labor is real high. So GM puts it's buyers to the side because of money it would cost to fix. It's not new either.
Do not buy a CHEVY money is more important then a person's life or a family. That's just plain greed and all wrong.
I say the USG should shut them down. Our daughter has been driving one of our vehicle until hers is fixed. Doesn't seem they GM are in any hurry. I think all these people that are involved should get a rent a-car on the dealer which should go back to GM. Now that's the right thing to do. We always had Chevys but never again.
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#1443414 --- 04/05/14 05:55 PM Re: GM recall [Re: bluezone]
young guns Offline
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GM offering loaners for recalled cars, but ...
Herb Weisbaum | @TheConsumerman
Friday, 4 Apr 2014 | 10:18 AM ET
CNBC.com






46
COMMENTSJoin the Discussion
General Motors CEO Mary Barra testifies before the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee on Capitol Hill, April 2, 2014 in Washington, DC.
Getty Images
General Motors CEO Mary Barra testifies before the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee on Capitol Hill, April 2, 2014 in Washington, DC.
It's easy to understand why someone who owns one of the 2.6 million recalled General Motors cars with faulty ignition switches might not want to drive it until the defective part can be replaced.

That's why GM told its dealers to give their customers a loaner if they asked for one.

During her appearances on Capitol Hill this week, CEO Mary Barra told Congress that the company has "empowered our dealers to take extraordinary measures" to assist its customers. And she specifically mentioned the free loaner policy.

Read MoreHere's what GM needs to do: Ralph Nader
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#1443415 --- 04/05/14 06:03 PM Re: GM recall [Re: bluezone]
young guns Offline
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Registered: 04/09/13
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GM CEO Barra Is Grilled Over Handling Of Ignition Switch Defect ...
www.npr.org/.../gm-chief-to-detail-handling-of-ignition-switch-defect-...NPR
4 days ago - ... is titled, "The GM Ignition Switch Recall: Why Did It Take So Long? ... Friedman later said his agency is conducting an active investigation into ...
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#1443500 --- 04/06/14 09:56 AM Re: GM recall [Re: young guns]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: young guns
That's why GM told its dealers to give their customers a loaner if they asked for one.


if gm does not notify their customers of the problem how would they know?
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#1443676 --- 04/07/14 04:54 PM Re: GM recall [Re: young guns]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: young guns
13 dead because of it. The part needed to fix is .35 but the labor is real high.


the spring just needed to be a bit longer
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#1443872 --- 04/08/14 09:27 PM Re: GM recall [Re: bluezone]
young guns Offline
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Registered: 04/09/13
Posts: 836
Loc: USA
Pretty damn cheap of GM. No more GMs for my family.
Real sad when money is worth more than a families life.
Why wasn't it addressed when they first found the problem? OH no just keep putting the Crap parts in and the hell with human lives. THAT SUCKS But greed rules the USG more so then most other countries.
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#1444881 --- 04/16/14 03:19 PM Re: GM recall [Re: bluezone]
Code Red Offline
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Registered: 06/17/06
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Loc: Out of my mind....
GM is not the only manufacturer that will save a few pennies here and there. It mostly was a witch hunt because of the bailout that was given to GM. Some people will never get over it. Toyota also just had a big recall. What about the Fords of years ago ? Mustangs with the gas tank being the back seats back support. Pintos catching fire from a rear impact. Cars themselves are dangerous. If you want safety then "Walk". Oh wait you could be hit by a car if you don't wear your safety vest.

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#1445024 --- 04/17/14 10:55 PM Re: GM recall [Re: Code Red]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/28/05
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Should New GM Be Liable for The Misdeeds of Old GM?
by eric • March 21, 2014 • 159

The unfolding fiasco over GM’s apparent shoving-under-the-rug of a potentially life-ending defect with the ignition switches in millions of its vehicles brings up the interesting issue of moral hazard and how it applies to corporations.GM recall pic

Or, doesn’t.

The defect – which has resulted in a tsunami recall of 1.6 million GM vehicles – could (and did) result in total shutdown of the engine (and with it, all power accessories, such as power steering and brakes) while the car was moving – with the added benefit of disabling the air bags at the same time, so that if the driver lost control as a result of a dead-stick engine and hit something, the air bags would not deploy. Which is just what happened in at least a dozen cases that have come to light… so far.

Affected models include the Chevy HHR, Cobalt and certain Pontiac and Saturn vehicles made from roughly the late ’90s through the 2007 model year.

12 deaths have been linked to the defect.GM lead

The actionable kicker is that GM knew. For years. As long ago as 2001. But did nothing – for years – to correct it and even continued to sell vehicles with these same defective ignition switches all the way through the ’07 model year.

People who bought these cars – especially the post ’01 models, which GM was aware were potentially lethal lemons – are gathering up their pitchforks. You can hear the lawyers rubbing their hands together. There will be congressional hearings in April, with sweaty execs under the klieg lights and two-legged great whites with attache cases and perfectly capped teeth champing at their flesh.

There are potentially billions on the line – not just fines, but losses to GM as people shy away from the products of a company they no longer trust. GM switch pic

Fool me once. . . .

Minimally, the value of the affected GM vehicles will plunge faster than the Titanic after compartment six flooded – even if the cars are fixed. Their unfortunate owners – as a class – will be wanting a check. What is 1.6 million times say a couple grand per owner? The answer: A lot of money – even for GM. Then there is the serious coin. The value to be placed upon the 12 lives lost thus far.

It’s epic – but who’s responsible?

The legal question debates whether it is the old, pre-bankruptcy GM – or the shiny New GM, jump-started by the government-mandated, taxpayer-finaced bailout back in ’09.

But neither the old nor the new GM is an actual person. A corporate person, yes. And there’s the problem, as it relates to moral hazard.GM ceo

No specific person is responsible – or can be held personally accountable. The corporation exists for precisely this reason.

To quash moral hazard.

It’s like giving a teenager a new Corvette, a credit card and a bottle of whiskey – and letting him know you’ll buy him another one (and hire the very best lawyers) in the event he wraps it around a tree. Only it’s worse than that, because when it’s a corporation like GM behind the wheel – so to speak – there isn’t even the possibility of the “driver” being killed – thus ending his streak - although he may certainly kill others along the way. GM wreck pic

Whoever actually designed the defective ignition switch – or more particularly, whoever it was in a decision-making capacity who knew about the defect and didn’t do anything to stop these parts from being installed after the defect was discovered - we’ll probably never even know their names. They certainly won’t have their feet held to the proverbial fire. Instead, well-briefed execs such as GM CEO Mary Barra and subalterns who had nothing to do with the debacle themselves will bow and scrape before the congressional Torquemadas, defending the corporation.

This is exactly like the third cousin once removed being grilled by the cops over the carnage caused by our hypothetical teenage Corvette pilot. Only the third cousin once removed might be held personally accountable – made to pay money himself, out of his own funds – whereas GM, the corporation, will pay any damages using other people’s money. moral hazard pic

I’m a Libertarian, so I defend the free market. But without moral hazard – personal accountability – the free market’s natural self-correctives are short-circuited.

If I am the owner of Peters Motors and I knowingly sell you a dangerous car – a car that my engineers knew was dangerous and told me was dangerous – then I (and they) are personally culpable and not just in the moral sense. You can sue me – or my engineers. Or all of us. Take us to the cleaners. Our assets are forfeit. And, if the matter involves criminal negligence, it’s our asses on the line.

Contrast this with what’s going to happen in the GM case. The people actually responsible for this debacle are probably no longer with the company – certainly not the high level executives who made the call to do nothing.

GM’s previous CEO, for instance. The prior “management team.” GM last pic

They’ll watch the inquisition from home on cable. Their golden parachutes will not be touched. They do not sweat feds banging on the door at 2 a.m. Meanwhile, the people who are with the company now – and here I refer to Barra as well as the average line workers, the mid-tier engineers and managers, the dealership owners and salespeople – all of them are going to take a hit. If it goes really bad – and it could – some may lose their jobs. Not because of anything they did, but because sales of GM cars droop as a result of the public’s turning away from a brand they’ve lost confidence in.

Shareholders will see the value of their stock decline – and what did they have to do with any of this?

Like a rock tossed into a pond, the ripples will radiate outward, lapping over almost everyone except those who should have been held to account.

And that’s why I am not a fan of corporations. They institutionalize sociopathic behavior by eliminating the normal human concern for not killing people if it can be avoided.dracula pic

Corporations, by nature, have one goal only – the maximization of quarterly profits. Not only is everything secondary to this, anything that possibly stands in the way of this – like voluntarily recalling millions of defective cars before more people get killed by them – is to a corporation what a crucifix is to Count Dracula.

Which is why the notion of corporate “personhood” ought to be thrown in the woods – and the people whose decisions cause harm to others held accountable for the consequences of their actions, whether they are mere individuals who screw up or individuals who run a company that screws up.

Without moral hazard, there is no free market – only the freedom to profit at the expense of others – and get away with it. To be legally protected from the consequences of what you do.

The inevitable result is exactly what you’d expect. And until this idiotic fiction of legal personhood without persons and without personal accountability is thrown in the woods, you can expect to see more of it.

Eric Peters is a veteran automotive journalist and author of Road Hogs an
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#1445025 --- 04/17/14 10:57 PM Re: GM recall [Re: VM Smith]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Untergang for GM?
by eric • April 12, 2014

Picture that scene in the bunker. The Fuhrer railing at his generals, spittle-spewing maledictions about their treachery and lies.Utergang 1

Cue GM CEO Mary Barra – poor woman – inside the tube towers, ashen-faced subordinates sitting around the big table… .

How could this have happened? And (probably) Why must I be surrounded by idiots?

Actually, they were pretty smart. I mean, the people responsible for what will likely prove to be GM’s untergang. Because they left before the “eastern front” collapsed. Here I mean people like ex-GM CEO Dan Akerson, who had to have known. The guy was in charge when GM – the “new” GM” – admits the “old” GM knew there was a design defect with the ignition switches installed in millions of GM vehicles over a period stretching from circa 1998-2007, almost an entire decade. Akerson knew – and split.

Leaving the proverbial bag for Barra to hold.

That’s smart. Sociopathic. But very, very smart.

And now, the fallout.Barra congress pic

GM is not going to survive it.

Because the company has become a joke. The Government Motors thing stuck in a lot of people’s craws – rightly so. But at least the cars were getting pretty good again… right?

Which they seemed to be. They certainly looked good and seemed to perform well. But now, there’s this. Do you trust GM? Would you want to be holding the keys to a GM vehicle . . . with the not-unreasonable nagging worry about what else they may have cheaped out on rattling around in your head?GM lemon pic How many moms are feeling uneasy about letting their teenage son or daughter head off to prom in a GM vehicle?

It’s not a great feeling, GM.

How about the millions of people who currently own GM vehicles who are almost certainly going to be dealing with a hit to their personal bottom lines – whether they own one of the known lemons or not? The feces that just hit the fan over the defective ignition switches will spray every GM-badged vehicle, tumbling resale values down the stairs like a cripple falling out of his wheelchair. How angry would that make you? It would make me very angry. Doesn’t matter whether a new Corvette or CTS is a fantastic car. If it depreciates by 50 percent rather than the usual 30 over the next five years because people don’t want anything to do with them on the second-hand market… you’re the one left holding the bag.

Not Akerson, et al.

In the car business – as in almost any business – the equity you’ve got (or not) in your name is, well, everything.

What equity has GM got in “GM” these days?GM pic

It may no longer matter that the cars are good. People have to believe they are good. It is that belief in the goodness (or not) of a given make that determines whether people will take the leap of faith involved in plunking down a wad of cash for an item that, next to their house, is usually the greatest financial commitment of their lives. People continue to buy Toyota/Lexus vehicles almost in their sleep – and notwithstanding that there are a number of equally appealing alternatives, if you go by the objectives.

But Toyota (and Honda and several others) have the subjectives on their side. The belief that, hey, this is a good car. Toyotas are solid. The company is not run by sociopaths. Toyota would never continue to build cars with a known serious defect . . . for years after becoming well-aware that the defect existed.

Whether this is actually true is beside the point. It is what people believe about Toyota.

And GM?cheesy GM

It is not a stretch to state that probably millions of people now believe that GM is capable of almost any form of skullduggery. Such people will never buy a GM car – no matter how rave the reviews, no matter how otherwise appealing they may be. It is exactly of a piece with the mindset of the Holocaust survivor who would rather walk barefoot along the Interstate in 100 degree heat than ride in the climate-controlled, leather-swathed opulence of a Mercedes.

Can you blame him?

Mistakes are one thing. But when people associate you – or your brand – with serial and deliberate assholeness, it’s a bridge burned that can’t be rebuilt.

That’s the situation now facing GM.GM terminal

I read an excellent article recently by former car industry PR guy Pete DeLorenzo (see here) in which he argues that the only solution at this point – if anything at all is to be salvaged – would be for the still-viable brands subsumed under the GM mantle (i.e., Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick) to be spun-off as separate, independent car companies. Before the cancer spreads to them. The fiasco mostly involves already dead brands anyhow – Pontiac and Saturn, mainly. Chevrolet is vulnerable – the Cobalt compact was among the sick listed – but there’s still equity in the bowtie. Per deLorenzo, save what can be saved, while there is still time.

GM itself is terminal.

There’s no coming back from this one.

Throw it in the Woods?
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#1445026 --- 04/17/14 11:01 PM Re: GM recall [Re: young guns]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
That's why GM told its dealers to give their customers a loaner if they asked for one.


The customer shouldn't have to ask...the cars are unsafe to drive until fixed. They have been unsafe all along, and the bottom line is that GM knew about the problem for over a decade, and made the conscious decision to cover it up.
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#1445070 --- 04/18/14 10:25 AM Re: GM recall [Re: bluezone]
young guns Offline
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Registered: 04/09/13
Posts: 836
Loc: USA
We got a loaner. But sad that the dealer himself never offered until we asked. We always got cars from this same Chevy dealer
for well over 40 yrs now. But this issue took the cake and cram can eat it too. NO MORE CHEVIES for our family
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#1445810 --- 04/26/14 01:42 PM Re: GM recall [Re: young guns]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
a news report may have said that it will cost gm over a billion dollars to correct the problem

they should not have waited this long
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#1445811 --- 04/26/14 01:45 PM Re: GM recall [Re: young guns]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: young guns
We got a loaner. But sad that the dealer himself never offered until we asked.


did they notify you in a letter about the problem?
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#1445812 --- 04/26/14 01:47 PM Re: GM recall [Re: young guns]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: young guns
We got a loaner. But sad that the dealer himself never offered until we asked. We always got cars from this same Chevy dealer for well over 40 yrs now.


a poor way to treat a 40 year customer
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#1451070 --- 06/18/14 08:18 AM Re:Another GM recall [Re: young guns]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32488
Loc: USA
another GM recall
the keys are defective now
causing the car to turn off anytime
the key hole is too large

whistle
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