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#1439686 --- 03/11/14 11:42 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Do you have any Indian blood in you? Where is your homeland? Do you own property in America?
Non sequitur.

It's also none of your business.
Your refusal to answer basic questions like this makes it impossible to have a serious discussion with you on this topic. I am not asking for your address or phone number. But to not have a clue who or what you are makes all the difference in discussing the Indian mess.
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#1439687 --- 03/11/14 11:45 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
and more importantly, would probably refuse to admit those truths (assuming that you were actually capable of comprehending the information, in the first place), all in order to save face, rather than having to admit (publicly AND personally) that you actually learned something new, thereby necessitating a reconsideration of your ideologies.
I have only learned one thing and that is that is impossible to learn anything from you.
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#1439688 --- 03/11/14 11:49 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14386
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Do you have any Indian blood in you? Where is your homeland? Do you own property in America?
Non sequitur.

It's also none of your business.
Your refusal to answer basic questions like this makes it impossible to have a serious discussion with you on this topic. I am not asking for your address or phone number. But to not have a clue who or what you are makes all the difference in discussing the Indian mess.

Only to someone who is unfamiliar with the definitions of the words or terms "relevant", "pertinent", "applicable", "apposite", "material","apropos", "to the point", "germane"; "connected", "related", "linked" or "on-topic".

Take your pick.
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#1439689 --- 03/11/14 12:25 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
teedoff27 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 2272
Loc: S2Hphoto
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
Originally Posted By: tubby
If thats true maybe they should hit up their gaming commission for some of that 27 billion dollars they made last year.


What about the BILLIONS that were made at the NYS run Racino's that are supposed to be to fund education. Less than 23% of the profit goes towards education.
http://nylottery.ny.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/c4/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os_jggBC3kDBPE0MLC0dnA09vT0fLQDNvA0dfU_2CbEdFALm-TnU!/?PC_7_SPTFTVI4188AC0IKIA9Q6K0QS0_WCM_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/NYSL+Content+Library/NYSL+Internet+Site/About+Us/Mission+for+Education/Where+the+Money+Goes

The New York Lottery contributed $3.04 billion in fiscal year 2012-2013 to help support education in New York State, nearly 15 percent of total state education funding to local school districts. The New York Lottery continues to be North America's largest and most profitable Lottery, earning over $48.3 billion in education support statewide since its founding over 45 years ago.

http://www.whec.com/article/stories/s3298745.shtml

So why do so many people question the lottery and school taxes? The state legislature uses money from the general fund to pay state aid to schools. Then thereís the lottery aid, which can only be used for education. The state replaces school aid with that so they donít have to raise state taxes, but since state aid never pays the whole bill, local school districts end up raising taxes to make the money add up. Plus, when the recession hit in 2009, the state began taking back aid from schools and has done that every year since


Yes that is NY Lottery as in win4, daily numbers, take 5 etc etc. etc. Notice how they say NOTHING about how much they actually took in!! They probably brought in 10 Billion but only gave 3 billion to education. Not to mention a huge portion of the Lotto money brought in was from Welfare Benefits, so in actuality the State is only getting their own money back!

In Fiscal year 2013-2014 the 9 NYS racinos has brought in 29 BILLION dollars yet has only given education 788 million to education.... the rest goes to agent commision, marketing, etc.!!!

http://nylottery.ny.gov/wps/wcm/connect/...bf88b3b1ada7a32
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#1439695 --- 03/11/14 01:33 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: teedoff27]
teedoff27 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 2272
Loc: S2Hphoto
Gov. Andrew Cuomo: Oneida Indian agreement 'ends centuries of disputes'

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2...t_river_default

Albany, N.Y. -- Gov. Andrew Cuomo said today the sweeping settlement ratified last week in federal court will end "centuries of disputes" between the state and Oneida Indian Nation.

"Two hundred years of conflict is too long," Cuomo said in a conference call today with reporters. "The uncertainty and the acrimony was preventing economic development in Central New York, and we couldn't allow it to go on any longer."

The agreement reached in May took effect last week with ratification by a federal judge. The settlement ends decades of legal battles between the Oneidas, the state, and Madison and Oneida counties. It also gives the Oneidas a monopoly on casinos in a nine-county region of Central New York, and for the first time since Turning Stone opened in 1993 requires the Oneidas to share their profits with the state and counties.

Oneida nation leader Ray Halbritter said the agreement brings a "new era" of cooperation between the Oneidas, state and counties.

"It enshrines the shared vision we all have for the future of the region," he said.

The Oneidas on Monday paid $11 million to the state, the first installment required by the settlement. All of that money will be transferred to Madison County on April 1, said Board of Supervisors Chairman John Becker. The money will settle all disputes over taxes between the county and the Oneidas.

The Oneidas will also pay the state 25 percent of revenues from the slot machines at Turning Stone casino. Cuomo said he is still projecting $50 million a year from the slots, to be paid to the state quarterly beginning in April.

Oneida nation leader Ray Halbritter said today that number could be even higher after the nation last week spent $15 million to install cash-operated slot machines and launched new player reward programs.

"Hopefully it will mean the state will receive more, and so will we," Halbritter said.

Madison County will get $3.5 million a year. Oneida County will get $2.5 million a year plus 25 percent of the money the nation pays to the state. All of this money comes from the money paid by the Oneidas to the state.

Eight other counties will receive a combined $5 million a year from the nation payment. Half of that goes to Onondaga County, where County Executive Joanie Mahoney plans to use the money to pay for a proposed amphitheater near Onondaga Lake.

The wide-ranging settlement allows the nation to have up to 25,000 acres of land set aside by the federal government for the tribe's use. That trust land is not taxable and is not subject to state or local control.


See ....Even our Governor AGREES with ME!!!! grin BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Madison County gets an instant check of 11 million for any and all loss of taxes....While Kyle and Bluezone still bellyache about the 1 million owed by the Cayugas..... SEE.....COMPROMISE! If you weren't always suing them or trying to shut down their businesses maybe they would compromise!

So long all great and powerful Sherrill Ruling that was NEVER enforced! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
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#1439704 --- 03/11/14 03:34 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: teedoff27]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14386
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
If you weren't always suing them or trying to shut down their businesses maybe they would compromise!

WORD.
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#1439710 --- 03/12/14 10:04 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
If you weren't always suing them or trying to shut down their businesses maybe they would compromise!
WORD.
I am unfamiliar with the word WORD.
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#1439784 --- 03/12/14 04:57 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: teedoff27]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
Gov. Andrew Cuomo: Oneida Indian agreement 'ends centuries of disputes'

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2...t_river_default

Albany, N.Y. -- Gov. Andrew Cuomo said today the sweeping settlement ratified last week in federal court will end "centuries of disputes" between the state and Oneida Indian Nation.

See ....Even our Governor AGREES with ME!!!! grin BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

So long all great and powerful Sherrill Ruling that was NEVER enforced! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA


He's YOUR Governor, not mine and you agreeing with him is nothing to brag about. I highly doubt that it was he agreeing with you but am not surprised that the forum factologist failed to point that out.

And the Sherrill ruling has been enforced throughout the country because the key word was laches, which is why the Cayuga lost their land claim three months later. The compromise that Sherrill made with the tribe is what got them screwed.

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#1439827 --- 03/12/14 09:55 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: teedoff27]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
The wide-ranging settlement allows the nation to have up to 25,000 acres of land set aside by the federal government for the tribe's use. That trust land is not taxable and is not subject to state or local control.


See ....Even our Governor AGREES with ME!!!! grin BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Madison County gets an instant check of 11 million for any and all loss of taxes


so tell us how much madison county has lost in taxes for all these years halbritter has not paid the 'tribes' share?
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#1439835 --- 03/13/14 07:06 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
teedoff27 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 2272
Loc: S2Hphoto
Well considering over 98% of the tribe and their businesses are in ONEIDA COUNTY, I am sure the 11 million is more than enough to cover any lost taxes, lawsuits, courts, and lawyer fees. Not to mention Madison County AGREEING to the amount!! They are also getting 3.5 Million/year from here on out!

Just think....that one time payment of 11 million is 11million times MORE than Seneca County has ever gotten from the Cayuga's! BWAHAHAHA grin
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#1439836 --- 03/13/14 07:14 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
teedoff27 Offline
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Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 2272
Loc: S2Hphoto
Rich my comment was *tongue in cheek* because Kyle just made a statement that all FL1 members, residents of NY and ALL politicians agree with his view on the natives.

FYI I HATE Cuomo and think he is just as worthless as his father and can't WAIT till he is gone, and I did NOT vote for his *more taxes to fund welfare hate all guns* self
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#1439841 --- 03/13/14 08:40 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: teedoff27]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
Well considering over 98% of the tribe and their businesses are in ONEIDA COUNTY, I am sure the 11 million is more than enough to cover any lost taxes, lawsuits, courts, and lawyer fees.


so if TS sees around $500 million each year and the cig and gas makes around another $200 million per year do you think $11 million is the 'tribes' fair share to the county or state?
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#1439842 --- 03/13/14 08:47 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: teedoff27]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
They are also getting 3.5 Million/year from here on out!


how is your math?
$3.5 million / 25,000 acres = $140

$140 per acre of land

did you pay less than $140 per year for your school, property, county, local... taxes?


you would have had to pay under $35 per year cuz you have about 1/4 of an acre for your property
$140 / 4 = $35

boy YOU got a wonderful deal crazy
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#1439843 --- 03/13/14 08:53 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: teedoff27]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
They are also getting 3.5 Million/year from here on out!


so tell us do the workers employed by the 'tribe' have to pay state income taxes after this 'deal' goes thru?
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#1439882 --- 03/13/14 12:01 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
teedoff27 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 2272
Loc: S2Hphoto
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
They are also getting 3.5 Million/year from here on out!


how is your math?
$3.5 million / 25,000 acres = $140

$140 per acre of land

did you pay less than $140 per year for your school, property, county, local... taxes?


you would have had to pay under $35 per year cuz you have about 1/4 of an acre for your property
$140 / 4 = $35

boy YOU got a wonderful deal crazy




Too bad the 25,000 acres is in ONEIDA COUNTY not Madison....so the 3.5million/year is virtually a *bonus*
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#1439883 --- 03/13/14 12:09 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
teedoff27 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 2272
Loc: S2Hphoto
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
Well considering over 98% of the tribe and their businesses are in ONEIDA COUNTY, I am sure the 11 million is more than enough to cover any lost taxes, lawsuits, courts, and lawyer fees.


so if TS sees around $500 million each year and the cig and gas makes around another $200 million per year do you think $11 million is the 'tribes' fair share to the county or state?


your figures you pull out of the air make me giggle. Turning Stone has to pay NYS 25% of their revenue with a minimum of 50 Million so the MORE Turning Stone makes the MORE NYS gets
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#1439885 --- 03/13/14 12:14 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
teedoff27 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 2272
Loc: S2Hphoto
Why not call any of the idiots in Albany, or the executives in Madison and Oneida County and ask they WHY they agreed to it??!?? Any of the 3 could of voted NO and the deal would of been DEAD IN THE WATER!

BTW.....I thought you said Cuomo was closing down Turning Stone??? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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#1439912 --- 03/13/14 05:37 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
The wide-ranging settlement allows the nation to have up to 25,000 acres of land set aside by the federal government for the tribe's use. That trust land is not taxable and is not subject to state or local control.


See ....Even our Governor AGREES with ME!!!! grin BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Madison County gets an instant check of 11 million for any and all loss of taxes


so tell us how much madison county has lost in taxes for all these years halbritter has not paid the 'tribes' share?
King Ray owed the counties over $110 Million. The 2.9M Oneida county will get over 20 years will be less than $60M. So my guess is they will get about 60% of what is already owed them. That gives the Oneida tribe a $40 M profit and they were so close to losing in the courts. The tribe had already dropped their sovereign immunity argument and it had already kicked back to being a matter of state tax law. That is when Prince Andrew reached his magical settlement deal with the counties agreeing to drop the lawsuit they had already won and the state and counties dropping the lawsuit against the BIA ROD. There were only two lawsuits dropped and they were less than 30 years old. One filed in 2007 and the other in 1983. The tribe had already lost their land claim and aboriginal land claim lawsuits plus the Sherrill ruling.

The Foreclosure lawsuit was, or course, initiated by the tribe about 2007. The tribe moved to drop the lawsuit after they realized that SCOTUS could eliminate their sovereign immunity. The court ruled they could not drop their lawsuit which left the counties free to defend themselves. The tribe then dropped the sovereign immunity defense so that SCOTUS could not rule on it. That kicked it back to the 2nd Circuit, then District, then state.

Most articles you read in newspapers are press releases from either the tribe or State and neither is telling the truth. There are no reporters searching for truths because their bosses do not want to lose advertising dollars.

Here is one article that is a couple years old which at least tells the other side. Note here, the traditional Oneida including the real chief will be evicted as a result of the settlement. And it was RoAnn DeStito who pushed Prince Andrew to make the settlement.
http://nypost.com/2013/05/29/a-rotten-deal-with-casino-oneidas/

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#1439917 --- 03/13/14 07:03 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
teedoff27 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 2272
Loc: S2Hphoto
I like how you always say they almost lost. Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

Also in addition to the 2.9 million|year they get 25% of the 50+++ million NYS gets. Oneida County got millions like Madison County did as a sign of good will When the deal was first struck.

Like I tell to Kyle and Bluezone and now you.......want to go back to the old way where NYS doesn't get a DIME!!??!!??
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#1439918 --- 03/13/14 07:14 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: teedoff27]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
All I would prefer is that the laws be enforced. Andy had every legal right to close the casino for not having a compact and negotiate one where the municipalities could get what they are getting under the settlement. I know the tribe would not negotiate unless the State closed it. Plus the counties would have been paid the $110M owed or foreclosed and not lost the tax base or jurisdiction.

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