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#1439239 --- 03/07/14 02:33 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
The same one from which you freely and with no self-sacrifice of your own, suck your liberties and freedom from those who personally sacrificed years of their lives to ensure that you could have a free ride and be guaranteed the right to talk smack to those whom you suggest are traitors to their country.

Got it now, little fella?

Are you as curious as I am to know whether or not you'd have the courage to say that straight to a veteran's face?
I don't feel I am getting a free ride. I am loyal to the USA only. You seem to have divided loyalties to tribes that want to split the USA into more than one sovereign nation.
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#1439241 --- 03/07/14 02:36 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Are you as curious as I am to know whether or not you'd have the courage to actually say that straight to a veteran's face?
I am curious if you would tell a veteran to his face that he must give up land that has been in his family for hundreds of years because some group that lived there 500 years ago is now claiming it!
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#1439251 --- 03/07/14 03:52 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
The same one from which you freely and with no self-sacrifice of your own, suck your liberties and freedom from those who personally forfeited years of their lives to ensure that you could have a free ride and be guaranteed the right to talk smack to those whom you suggest are traitors to their country.

Got it now, little fella?

Are you as curious as I am to know whether or not you'd have the courage to actually say that straight to a veteran's face?
I am quite confident that most veterans would support my position of not giving away the country they served to a small band of people who want to divide up American into little sovereign nations. I cannot imagine otherwise.
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#1439328 --- 03/08/14 07:47 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Timbo
How convenient of you to leave out the primary point:
did you leave YOUR HOMELAND by force or did you leave on your own free will?
Originally Posted By: Timbo
I served my country honorably for several years while in the Navy.
Are you as curious as I am as to what country and what Navy?

The same one from which you freely and with no self-sacrifice of your own, suck your liberties and freedom from those who personally forfeited years of their lives to ensure that you could have a free ride and be guaranteed the right to talk smack to those whom you suggest are traitors to their country.


so when will you give your land back to the 'tribe'?
you keep saying it is 'their' land but you fail to do the honorable deed
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1439335 --- 03/08/14 08:27 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14386
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
The same one from which you freely and with no self-sacrifice of your own, suck your liberties and freedom from those who personally forfeited years of their lives to ensure that you could have a free ride and be guaranteed the right to talk smack to those whom you suggest are traitors to their country.

Got it now, little fella?

Are you as curious as I am to know whether or not you'd have the courage to actually say that straight to a veteran's face?
I am quite confident that most veterans would support my position of not giving away the country they served to a small band of people who want to divide up American into little sovereign nations. I cannot imagine otherwise.

Of course you can't imagine otherwise. Because the only one that seems to be suggesting such a ridiculous scenario, is you.

Or perhaps you'd like to provide some evidence to the contrary. crazy

Why do you continue to push this BS theory when I've repeatedly asked you to back it up with some proof? Is it your opinion that you and blue zone are the only ones exempt from answering debate questions?

And try to provide some real facts, not opinions.
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1439343 --- 03/08/14 10:03 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Is it your opinion that you and blue zone are the only ones exempt from answering debate questions?
I have answered every question you have asked but you answer very few of mine.
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#1439344 --- 03/08/14 10:07 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
The same one from which you freely and with no self-sacrifice of your own, suck your liberties and freedom from those who personally forfeited years of their lives to ensure that you could have a free ride and be guaranteed the right to talk smack to those whom you suggest are traitors to their country.

Got it now, little fella?

Are you as curious as I am to know whether or not you'd have the courage to actually say that straight to a veteran's face?
I am quite confident that most veterans would support my position of not giving away the country they served to a small band of people who want to divide up American into little sovereign nations. I cannot imagine otherwise.
Of course you can't imagine otherwise. Because the only one that seems to be suggesting such a ridiculous scenario, is you.
You think most veterans would have no problem with the USA being divided into little soverign nations? OMG You are totally unbelievable.
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#1439380 --- 03/08/14 02:33 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 4871
Loc: Malmö
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
The same one from which you freely and with no self-sacrifice of your own, suck your liberties and freedom from those who personally forfeited years of their lives to ensure that you could have a free ride and be guaranteed the right to talk smack to those whom you suggest are traitors to their country.

Got it now, little fella?

Are you as curious as I am to know whether or not you'd have the courage to actually say that straight to a veteran's face?
I am quite confident that most veterans would support my position of not giving away the country they served to a small band of people who want to divide up American into little sovereign nations. I cannot imagine otherwise.
Of course you can't imagine otherwise. Because the only one that seems to be suggesting such a ridiculous scenario, is you.
You think most veterans would have no problem with the USA being divided into little soverign nations? OMG You are totally unbelievable.


Are you suggesting Native Americans (including Caucasian supporters of indigenous rights) struggling for sovereignty have NOT served in every branch of the U.S. military? Think again Kyle.

As for your repeated "most veterans" comments. Remember, the majority can be oppressive and intolerant.

> At one time in history, the majority of the US population favored racial discrimination.
> At one time in history, the majority supported laws that denied women the right to vote.
> At one time in history, the majority defended the institution of slavery.

A simple perusal of this short list of U.S. injustices should convince you that "most" is not always right.

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"Everything that has ever happened to us is there to make us stronger."
-John Trudell


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#1439383 --- 03/08/14 03:17 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Teonan]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Teonan
Are you suggesting Native Americans (including Caucasian supporters of indigenous rights) struggling for sovereignty have NOT served in every branch of the U.S. military? Think again Kyle.

As for your repeated "most veterans" comments. Remember, the majority can be oppressive and intolerant.

> At one time in history, the majority of the US population favored racial discrimination.
> At one time in history, the majority supported laws that denied women the right to vote.
> At one time in history, the majority defended the institution of slavery.

A simple perusal of this short list of U.S. injustices should convince you that "most" is not always right.
Oh no. I believe that Native Americans have served in every branch of the US Military. I heard they did some great work in WWII using their native language for secret codes which the enemy could not crack. I agree that "most" is not always right. But are these Native American veterans now struggling for sovereignty? What does that mean? Sovereignty for who, what, and where?

I consider myself to be a Caucasian supporter of indigenous rights. I believe they have the right to be full-fledged American citizens with all the rights, privileges, and responsibilities thereof.


Edited by kyle585 (03/08/14 03:27 PM)
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#1439393 --- 03/08/14 04:10 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14386
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Teonan
Are you suggesting Native Americans (including Caucasian supporters of indigenous rights) struggling for sovereignty have NOT served in every branch of the U.S. military? Think again Kyle.

As for your repeated "most veterans" comments. Remember, the majority can be oppressive and intolerant.

> At one time in history, the majority of the US population favored racial discrimination.
> At one time in history, the majority supported laws that denied women the right to vote.
> At one time in history, the majority defended the institution of slavery.

A simple perusal of this short list of U.S. injustices should convince you that "most" is not always right.
Oh no. I believe that Native Americans have served in every branch of the US Military. I heard they did some great work in WWII using their native language for secret codes which the enemy could not crack. I agree that "most" is not always right. But are these Native American veterans now struggling for sovereignty? What does that mean? Sovereignty for who, what, and where?

I consider myself to be a Caucasian supporter of indigenous rights. I believe they have the right to be full-fledged American citizens with all the rights, privileges, and responsibilities thereof.

If only you had the ability to recognize the blatant bigotry gushing from that very statement. frown

FYI:
Native American per populace enlistment rate is almost the highest of all other races and is in fact the highest for female enlistees.

They didn't just "do some great work in WWII" as you put it. For over 200 years they have been among (if not in fact) the most dedicated and sacrificing of any peoples to have served in the US military... EVER.
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#1439396 --- 03/08/14 04:33 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
If only you had the ability to recognize the blatant bigotry gushing from that very statement. frown

FYI:
Native American per populace enlistment rate is almost the highest of all other races and is in fact the highest for female enlistees.

They didn't just "do some great work in WWII" as you put it. For over 200 years they have been among (if not in fact) the most dedicated and sacrificing of any peoples to have served in the US military... EVER.
That is wonderful. I intended no bigotry in my statement. So where we go from here? Are these the same loyal Americans that want to crave their own sovereign nation out of American soil?
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#1439397 --- 03/08/14 04:37 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14386
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
[quote=Timbo]a small band of people...

Are you as curious as I am, why they are now only "a small band of people"??? frown
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1439399 --- 03/08/14 04:45 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
[quote=Timbo]a small band of people...

Are you as curious as I am, why they are now only "a small band of people"??? frown
Because a lot of them were killed by fighting with the first Caucasian settlers from various European countries who had guns and they only had bows and arrows. What do you think we should about it hundreds of years later? How often do I have to ask you this question? I will never get a direct response from you, will I?


Edited by kyle585 (03/08/14 04:47 PM)
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#1439400 --- 03/08/14 04:47 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14386
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
If only you had the ability to recognize the blatant bigotry gushing from that very statement. frown

FYI:
Native American per populace enlistment rate is almost the highest of all other races and is in fact the highest for female enlistees.

They didn't just "do some great work in WWII" as you put it. For over 200 years they have been among (if not in fact) the most dedicated and sacrificing of any peoples to have served in the US military... EVER.
That is wonderful. I intended no bigotry in my statement. So where we go from here? Are these the same loyal Americans that want to crave their own sovereign nation out of American soil?

Out of NATIVE American soil, you mean?
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#1439401 --- 03/08/14 04:49 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
If only you had the ability to recognize the blatant bigotry gushing from that very statement. frown

FYI:
Native American per populace enlistment rate is almost the highest of all other races and is in fact the highest for female enlistees.

They didn't just "do some great work in WWII" as you put it. For over 200 years they have been among (if not in fact) the most dedicated and sacrificing of any peoples to have served in the US military... EVER.
That is wonderful. I intended no bigotry in my statement. So where we go from here? Are these the same loyal Americans that want to crave their own sovereign nation out of American soil?

Out of NATIVE American soil, you mean?
Yes. All of America was once Native American soil. How much of it do you think we should give back? All of it? You seem to make light of that suggestion? So what do you think? You refuse to answer any question I ask.


Edited by kyle585 (03/08/14 04:52 PM)
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#1439402 --- 03/08/14 04:52 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14386
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
[quote=Timbo]a small band of people...

Are you as curious as I am, why they are now only "a small band of people"??? frown
Because a lot of them were killed by fighting with the first Caucasian settlers from various European countries who had guns and they only had bows and arrows. What do you think we should about it hundreds of years later? How often do I have to ask you this question? I will never get a direct response from you, will I?

How many times do I have to answer the question? You simply don't like my answer.

The only issue is that two entire continents of people have been displaced and nearly wiped out by invading forces.

Now, please go back and answer my several questions over the past few pages. Or are you simply above it all?
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1439404 --- 03/08/14 05:02 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14386
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
If only you had the ability to recognize the blatant bigotry gushing from that very statement. frown

FYI:
Native American per populace enlistment rate is almost the highest of all other races and is in fact the highest for female enlistees.

They didn't just "do some great work in WWII" as you put it. For over 200 years they have been among (if not in fact) the most dedicated and sacrificing of any peoples to have served in the US military... EVER.
That is wonderful. I intended no bigotry in my statement. So where we go from here? Are these the same loyal Americans that want to crave their own sovereign nation out of American soil?

Out of NATIVE American soil, you mean?
Yes. All of America was once Native American soil. How much of it do you think we should give back? All of it? You seem to make light of that suggestion? So what do you think? You refuse to answer any question I ask.

I refuse to answer a question that is purely hypothetical and therefor pointless.

Why don't you begin by providing a list of all the land that the Indians are allegedly demanding be returned.

Be specific and provide an accurate account of the land issue in question along with proper citations as to confirm your assertions. That way I don't have to waste my time on pointless ruminating of fictional issues.

But before you do that... please answer my previous questions.
_________________________
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1439405 --- 03/08/14 05:52 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 4871
Loc: Malmö
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Teonan
Are you suggesting Native Americans (including Caucasian supporters of indigenous rights) struggling for sovereignty have NOT served in every branch of the U.S. military? Think again Kyle.

As for your repeated "most veterans" comments. Remember, the majority can be oppressive and intolerant.

> At one time in history, the majority of the US population favored racial discrimination.
> At one time in history, the majority supported laws that denied women the right to vote.
> At one time in history, the majority defended the institution of slavery.

A simple perusal of this short list of U.S. injustices should convince you that "most" is not always right.
Oh no. I believe that Native Americans have served in every branch of the US Military. I heard they did some great work in WWII using their native language for secret codes which the enemy could not crack. I agree that "most" is not always right. But are these Native American veterans now struggling for sovereignty? What does that mean? Sovereignty for who, what, and where?

I consider myself to be a Caucasian supporter of indigenous rights. I believe they have the right to be full-fledged American citizens with all the rights, privileges, and responsibilities thereof.

If only you had the ability to recognize the blatant bigotry gushing from that very statement. frown


Such a notion is unfathomable to Kyle. He embraces a logic which holds that indigenous peoples must assimilate - or disappear. In fact, they must always be disappearing in order to rationalize and enable claims to their traditional landbase.

Land - the key component to the values, cosmology and worldview of indigenous peoples. Little wonder it's removal from those it sustains is the coveted weapon of choice.
_________________________
"Everything that has ever happened to us is there to make us stronger."
-John Trudell


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#1439406 --- 03/08/14 06:07 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
But before you do that... please answer my previous questions.
I have no idea what questions you are talking about! And I don't think you do either!
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#1439407 --- 03/08/14 06:09 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Why don't you begin by providing a list of all the land that the Indians are allegedly demanding be returned.
If they don't want any land back then what do they want? Trying to discuss this topic with you is becoming so pointless.
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