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#1417582 - 09/17/13 07:12 AM Train of thought-Talk it through
romulicious Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/13
Posts: 92
Loc: Romulus, NY
What do you think are the questions the Seneca County Supervisors should be considering related to the trash train to Seneca Meadows? Environmental issues are moot points because the trash will get here one way or another. But making the trash train a mute point by not discussing the facts is a disservice to the county.
Here's my questions for the supervisors to consider:

1) Will train reduce truck traffic? If so, where and to what extent?
2) Will train accelerate the ultimate closing of the landfill?
3) How will train crossings impact villages and the quality of life of those that live near the railroad tracks?


What are your questions?
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#1417590 - 09/17/13 08:39 AM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: romulicious]
Blue_man Offline
Member

Registered: 08/29/00
Posts: 367
Loc: Required, FD
What authority does the board of supervisors have to even get involved in this? Does the county have any county zoning laws or any other power that allows them to stop it?

Because, otherwise, this is all academic.

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#1417634 - 09/17/13 01:44 PM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: romulicious]
flbuldog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 2436
Loc: Stoopidville
Originally Posted By: romulicious
What do you think are the questions the Seneca County Supervisors should be considering related to the trash train to Seneca Meadows? Environmental issues are moot points because the trash will get here one way or another. But making the trash train a mute point by not discussing the facts is a disservice to the county.
Here's my questions for the supervisors to consider:

1) Will train reduce truck traffic? If so, where and to what extent?
2) Will train accelerate the ultimate closing of the landfill?
3) How will train crossings impact villages and the quality of life of those that live near the railroad tracks?


What are your questions?


GOOD LUCK talking it through.. jme but you can't talk through anything to folks who already have been either paid off or have their minds made up. But good luck.
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#1417636 - 09/17/13 01:50 PM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: romulicious]
Frisco kid Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 561
Loc: Constantia NY
2 threads have come and been locked by the Mods on this topic. I feel people "talked it through" and people on either side are not going to be swayed by anything said on here. This thread is a classic example of beating a dead horse.
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#1417785 - 09/18/13 07:21 AM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: Frisco kid]
romulicious Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/13
Posts: 92
Loc: Romulus, NY
The ten wheelers and 18 wheelers rolling through downtown Waterloo make the place feel like an industrial park. Not very conducive to quaint shops and sidewalk dining.

Question: Could the trash rail be used to transport cover soil and stop the dirt truck parade?

Also: The Seneca Army Depot buildings are collapsing. Can this massive volume of cinderblock be railed to SM?
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lead, follow or get out of the way.-Thomas Paine

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#1417788 - 09/18/13 07:39 AM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: romulicious]
romulicious Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/13
Posts: 92
Loc: Romulus, NY
Question: Can railing trash facilitate the closing of other regional landfills that do not operate at the safety and green standards employed by Seneca Meadows?

Would closing non state of the art landfills and railing the refuse to SM be a net benefit to the finger lakes environment?

Would it be cheaper to rail trash to SM than to process trash at local landfills?
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#1417915 - 09/18/13 09:05 PM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: romulicious]
Dr. Sarcassm Esq Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 718
Loc: Seneca Falls
It's just trash who cares which way it comes in.


By Rail

By Truck

By Canal Barge

By Helicopter

Who cares - there is a cap on daily tonnage.
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#1417959 - 09/19/13 12:23 AM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: Dr. Sarcassm Esq]
de1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 1957
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Dr. Sarcassm Esq
It's just trash who cares which way it comes in.


By Rail

By Truck

By Canal Barge

By Helicopter

Who cares - there is a cap on daily tonnage.



Forget it you can never make them understand that. They are to dense.

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#1417965 - 09/19/13 04:37 AM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: de1]
romulicious Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/13
Posts: 92
Loc: Romulus, NY
Originally Posted By: de1
[quote=Dr. Sarcassm Esq]It's just trash who cares which way it comes in.
By Rail By Truck By Canal Barge By Helicopter
Who cares - there is a cap on daily tonnage.


Are you saying let's not discuss:
1. Saving energy. -Rail uses 10x less energy to move a ton than trucks
2. Reducing road wear. -Look at the wear groves on Virginia Street in Waterloo. The swells are over 10 inches high in places.
3. Reducing landfill impact on community. -Specifically: Truck density is highly visible north/south on Virginia Street.
4. Reducing truck traffic by shifting some of the burden of transporting trash from truck to rail with the hope of helping increase the economic development potential of the Village.

That's important. The supervisors have a responsibility to discuss rail's transport efficiency BECAUSE "there is a cap on daily tonnage". Will 6000 tons (trash and cover soil) shipped by rail reduce truck traffic in the Village of Waterloo?

Is your fear that the efficiency of rail will lead to the Meadows petitioning for an increase in the tonnage cap? Therefore there will not be a reduction on truck traffic, simply an increase in transport options in preparation for an increase in the daily tonnage cap? If so, that's an excellent point and the fundamental question to the supervisors becomes:

1. "If the rail spur is approved, what assurances can you give the community that benefits of rail transport(i.e. reduction of truck traffic) wont be negated by an increase in the daily tonnage cap?"
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lead, follow or get out of the way.-Thomas Paine

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#1418003 - 09/19/13 11:00 AM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: romulicious]
de1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 1957
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: romulicious
Originally Posted By: de1
[quote=Dr. Sarcassm Esq]It's just trash who cares which way it comes in.
By Rail By Truck By Canal Barge By Helicopter
Who cares - there is a cap on daily tonnage.


Are you saying let's not discuss:
1. Saving energy. -Rail uses 10x less energy to move a ton than trucks
2. Reducing road wear. -Look at the wear groves on Virginia Street in Waterloo. The swells are over 10 inches high in places.
3. Reducing landfill impact on community. -Specifically: Truck density is highly visible north/south on Virginia Street.
4. Reducing truck traffic by shifting some of the burden of transporting trash from truck to rail with the hope of helping increase the economic development potential of the Village.

That's important. The supervisors have a responsibility to discuss rail's transport efficiency BECAUSE "there is a cap on daily tonnage". Will 6000 tons (trash and cover soil) shipped by rail reduce truck traffic in the Village of Waterloo?

Is your fear that the efficiency of rail will lead to the Meadows petitioning for an increase in the tonnage cap? Therefore there will not be a reduction on truck traffic, simply an increase in transport options in preparation for an increase in the daily tonnage cap? If so, that's an excellent point and the fundamental question to the supervisors becomes:

1. "If the rail spur is approved, what assurances can you give the community that benefits of rail transport(i.e. reduction of truck traffic) wont be negated by an increase in the daily tonnage cap?"



I would doubt very much if you ever would see a tonnage increase at SM. If you look at the DEC solid waste management plan they are pushing more and more for recycling and reuse than ever before. They don't want things buried that can be recycled or reused anymore than you or I do.

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#1418019 - 09/19/13 12:18 PM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: de1]
RRRide Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/05/12
Posts: 8
Loc: Romulus, NY
Originally Posted By: de1
I would doubt very much if you ever would see a tonnage increase at SM. If you look at the DEC solid waste management plan they are pushing more and more for recycling and reuse than ever before. They don't want things buried that can be recycled or reused anymore than you or I do.


So rail would have to reduce truck traffic. What's the downside and why is there so much opposition to this? The anti landfill crowd seems to want no rail discussion because they don't want the landfill at all. They are a few decades too late on that conversation.

Supervisors are obliged to have a detailed, non-emotional review of the facts and then make a decision supported by that review. Not based on perceived political fallout, but based on benefits and/or risks for the people they are elected to serve.
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#1418033 - 09/19/13 01:54 PM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: RRRide]
kimmer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1383
Loc: here,there and back again
"The anti landfill crowd seems to want no rail discussion because they don't want the landfill at all."

WRONG! It's not about not wanting the landfill. For me it's more about how the dump is an ever expanding eyesore. I don't care to have trash cars - empty or full - parked anywhere I have to look at them. More eyesore is not what is needed. I am alway sick and tired of seeing SMI receive tax breaks when they do not need them. Save the tax breaks for new business - if anyone could figure out how to bring them here.
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#1418046 - 09/19/13 04:12 PM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: kimmer]
de1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 1957
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: kimmer
"The anti landfill crowd seems to want no rail discussion because they don't want the landfill at all."

WRONG! It's not about not wanting the landfill. For me it's more about how the dump is an ever expanding eyesore. I don't care to have trash cars - empty or full - parked anywhere I have to look at them. More eyesore is not what is needed. I am alway sick and tired of seeing SMI receive tax breaks when they do not need them. Save the tax breaks for new business - if anyone could figure out how to bring them here.



You're OK with companies like Goulds and Bonadent getting them though right?

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#1418047 - 09/19/13 04:13 PM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: kimmer]
romulicious Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/13
Posts: 92
Loc: Romulus, NY
Originally Posted By: kimmer
"The anti landfill crowd seems to want no rail discussion because they don't want the landfill at all."

WRONG! It's not about not wanting the landfill. For me it's more about how the dump is an ever expanding eyesore. I don't care to have trash cars - empty or full - parked anywhere I have to look at them. More eyesore is not what is needed. I am alway sick and tired of seeing SMI receive tax breaks when they do not need them. Save the tax breaks for new business - if anyone could figure out how to bring them here.


So the empty train cars will be an eyesore to you and you'd like to see that addressed? Not sure how valid that is in the context of dozens of trucks now waiting outside of the landfill entrance for their turn in the hill.

Tax breaks are another issue. Many businesses have staff to help them apply for and receive tax breaks grants etc. I hope my businesses can grow to the point where I can do the same. But the today topic is about railing trash not railing on the tax break process.

So train cars are an eyesore but trucks backed up along 414 waiting to unload are a more esthetic option? I question your sincerity on that one. When it comes to esthetics, there is a rather remarkable wetlands that compliments the landfill. Have you walked the trails there yet?

The retired landfill in Mt Trashmore Virginia is rather beautiful and sets a standard for an exit strategy to our local landfill as SM operations reach maximum capacity and the trash issue moves on to another community. But while this landfill is actively growing, and the topography of the Northern Seneca County skyline changes, would not a green oriented person want to reduce fuel emissions and reduce truck traffic during the mounding phase of this landfill?

When you look at the growing mounds of trash, that's all you see. Trash. And its understandable why that would upset you. Me, I see Seneca County doing its part in helping our region safely, responsibly and affordable deal with its trash processing needs. I see the flow of trash stopping some day and the mountains reclaimed for wildlife. I look forward to the day I can hunt elk and bear in them thare hills. Your vision is immediate. Mine is generational.

When I was a kid, the gullies and roadsides of this county were the dumping grounds of the region long before we had a landfill. Any metal detector can find the remains of the past in any gully in the area. If it takes tax breaks and trains to have a sane, green, forward thinking mentality toward trash, I welcome it.
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#1418050 - 09/19/13 05:05 PM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: romulicious]
steeler1 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/22/10
Posts: 48
Loc: Waterloo
Hello Mr. Gentilcore!

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#1418061 - 09/19/13 07:16 PM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: romulicious]
F. Gump Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/13
Posts: 56
Loc: Podunk
Originally Posted By: romulicious
When you look at the growing mounds of trash, that's all you see. Trash. And its understandable why that would upset you. Me, I see Seneca County doing its part in helping our region safely, responsibly and affordable deal with its trash processing needs.

I do not view "our region" as the entire North East and Canada. And who mandates Seneca County should "do its part?" Oh, Seneca Meadows, a corporation.
I think most rational people in Seneca County would be comfortable with a dump in Seneca County that only accepted garbage from within the County.

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#1418127 - 09/19/13 10:54 PM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: F. Gump]
romulicious Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/13
Posts: 92
Loc: Romulus, NY
Originally Posted By: F. Gump
Originally Posted By: romulicious
When you look at the growing mounds of trash, that's all you see. Trash. And its understandable why that would upset you. Me, I see Seneca County doing its part in helping our region safely, responsibly and affordable deal with its trash processing needs.

I do not view "our region" as the entire North East and Canada. And who mandates Seneca County should "do its part?" Oh, Seneca Meadows, a corporation.
I think most rational people in Seneca County would be comfortable with a dump in Seneca County that only accepted garbage from within the County.


Again, the feeling is "let's not discuss a rail spur but rather pretend the landfill isn't here doing what its been doing for decades." What's so rational about pretending the landfill is something other than what its not?

This discussion is about rail and its impact on lowering trucks in the county. Everything else is a misguided attempt to frustrate the landfill in a fantasy that it will only accept Seneca county trash.

NIMBY isn't what inspired the underground railroad, memorial day or the women's rights movement. These were about leading the way in national issues. Trash is a national issue and Seneca County has the cutting edge top solution. NIMBY ends up dumping trash in the ocean. That serves no porpoise. or dolphin.
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lead, follow or get out of the way.-Thomas Paine

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#1418131 - 09/19/13 11:59 PM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: F. Gump]
de1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 1957
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: F. Gump
Originally Posted By: romulicious
When you look at the growing mounds of trash, that's all you see. Trash. And its understandable why that would upset you. Me, I see Seneca County doing its part in helping our region safely, responsibly and affordable deal with its trash processing needs.

I do not view "our region" as the entire North East and Canada. And who mandates Seneca County should "do its part?" Oh, Seneca Meadows, a corporation.
I think most rational people in Seneca County would be comfortable with a dump in Seneca County that only accepted garbage from within the County.


A landfill that only accepted in county trash would be a financial disaster. It would have to be subsidized by the millions by county taxpayers. To meet the DEC standards for state of the art landfills costs millions of dollars. The money has to come from somewhere.

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#1418141 - 09/20/13 05:35 AM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: de1]
Genevan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1894
Loc: Geneva
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Statements by this member are personal opinion and are not to be construed as intentional slander.

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#1418167 - 09/20/13 10:05 AM Re: Train of thought-Talk it through [Re: de1]
kimmer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1383
Loc: here,there and back again
Not discussing Goulds or Bonadent at this time.
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