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#1397620 - 04/17/13 12:18 PM Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County
newsman38 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4063
Loc: Fourth Estate
Geologist: Fracking Unlikely Here

At the request of various area board members and residents, on April 1 at Austic Farms Shop Building on Route 96, former Covert town supervisor Brayton Foster presented the how, why and what of gas drilling and hydraulic fracturing to a somewhat hostile audience. His talk attempted to address some misconceptions people have about fracking.

Foster, a long-time resident of Covert, is a consulting geologist active in Marcellus and Trenton/Black River horizontal drilling. Years ago he was involved in vertical hole drilling into the Marcellus shale in Chemung County, and said those wells didn’t produce enough gas to pay for the fracking, never mind the drilling.

“Chemung, Tioga and Broome counties are the only areas where the Marcellus is likely to be fracked in this state,” said Foster. Although the Utica Shale, which is far beneath the Marcellus, is thick enough to frack, it is not regarded as worth drilling with existing technology. Where the Utica was fracked in the St. Lawrence valley, he said, the rate of production was low. “Most of us won’t live to see the Utica shale fracked around here.”

He also went into the regulations in New York set to prevent pollution such as that caused by fracking in other parts of the country. The DEC permit system requires drillers to explain where they intend to get the necessary water; where they’ll dispose of it; what chemicals they’ll use. This latter information will be shared with the DEC, although not with the public (nor can it be obtained through FOIL) because that would violate the companies’ patents on the fracking fluid.

He talked a little about what happens to the fracking fluid after it has been used. According to Foster, in New York State fracking fluids and flowback can only be stored in open pits for 45 days before they have to be either reused or hauled away for reprocessing. The flowback, contrary to what many believe, does not have elevated radioactivity. “Production water,” which is native to the shale formation and comes out of the well during gas production, is radioactive. Foster advocated injecting production water back into wells to “send it back where it came from.” Ninety percent of the flowback is recycled (back into the well, or another). There are biodegradable fracking fluid formulas, but they are more expensive than the others.

Property owners concerned about compulsory integration should know that if the gas companies have a critical mass of landowners in the unit who have leased, then that allows them to drill under your land without your consent, but they cannot get surface rights to your land; what operations they perform will be deep underground.

Tom Shepstone of Energy In Depth, also made a presentation. Shepstone is a lobbyist for natural gas development in New York state, but he let the audience know that he, like Foster, believes production water should be put back in the ground where it came from. Further, he said production water high in radon is not allowed to be stored in pits in New York and must be stored in tanks.

Shepstone also predicted that only 1000 new Marcellus wells per year would go into production, because this “keep the pipeline full” and meet the existing demand for natural gas.

At least a third of the audience traveled from Bradford County in Pennsylvania to the meeting. It was also well attended by Concerned Citizens of Covert.

Posted: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 11:43 am
Staff Reports
© Copyright 2013, Ithaca Times, Ithaca , N

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#1397633 - 04/17/13 01:25 PM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: newsman38]
past tense Offline
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Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 29680
Loc: Houston, TX
File under: DUH
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#1397681 - 04/17/13 06:35 PM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: past tense]
Here's Johnny Offline
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Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 691
Loc: New York
NIMBY that is all I have to say...

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#1397715 - 04/17/13 09:39 PM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: Here's Johnny]
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Registered: 04/12/13
Posts: 351
What is "NIMBY"?

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#1397716 - 04/17/13 09:47 PM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: ]
twocats Offline
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Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11791
Loc: NYS
Not in my backyard.

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#1397723 - 04/17/13 10:07 PM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: twocats]
past tense Offline
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Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 29680
Loc: Houston, TX
The official motto of Upstate New York.

But it's nice to see that at least a little of the science is getting out there. If only the anti-frackers would use more factual arguments, instead of just sharing inaccurate anti-fracking cartoons on Facebook and calling it "activism".
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#1397732 - 04/17/13 10:53 PM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: past tense]
Dr. Sarcassm Esq Offline
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Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 714
Loc: Seneca Falls
This is disappointing to hear. I had wished for a great interest in Frack drilling in Seneca County. Still may happen.
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#1397741 - 04/18/13 01:11 AM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: past tense]
Offline
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Registered: 04/12/13
Posts: 351
Originally Posted By: past tense
The official motto of Upstate New York.

But it's nice to see that at least a little of the science is getting out there. If only the anti-frackers would use more factual arguments, instead of just sharing inaccurate anti-fracking cartoons on Facebook and calling it "activism".







What is your degree in and where did you earn it to give you authority on the subject?

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#1397742 - 04/18/13 01:14 AM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: Dr. Sarcassm Esq]
Offline
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Registered: 04/12/13
Posts: 351
Originally Posted By: Dr. Sarcassm Esq
This is disappointing to hear. I had wished for a great interest in Frack drilling in Seneca County. Still may happen.






Nope, you lose again Bob, go threaten physical harm on the families of those who write letters about the dump you don't agree with.

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#1397748 - 04/18/13 06:54 AM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: ]
SportsNut Offline
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Registered: 09/02/08
Posts: 177
Loc: FingerLakes
Unless I missed it, where in the article does it say that fracking is unlikely in Seneca County ?

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#1397775 - 04/18/13 10:46 AM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: ]
past tense Offline
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Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 29680
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: Hocks N Rice
Originally Posted By: past tense
The official motto of Upstate New York.

But it's nice to see that at least a little of the science is getting out there. If only the anti-frackers would use more factual arguments, instead of just sharing inaccurate anti-fracking cartoons on Facebook and calling it "activism".



What is your degree in and where did you earn it to give you authority on the subject?


My husband is an exploration geologist with a major international oil company, as are several of our friends. Never mind the dozens of other geologists and geophysicists and geochemists in our circle.

They deal in these pesky little things called "science" and "facts", while anti-frackers use out-of-scale cartoons and Internet memes to prove their point. You're going to lose the battle if it continues that way. Fact.
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#1397778 - 04/18/13 10:56 AM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: past tense]
mimi33 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/02
Posts: 526
Loc: seneca falls, ny, usa
What about the many geologists, geophysicists, and geochemists who have come out against fracking? You know, the ones whose livelihoods aren't dependent on the oil industry. I suppose they're all crackpots with "cartoons on Facebook".

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#1397779 - 04/18/13 11:03 AM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: mimi33]
past tense Offline
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Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 29680
Loc: Houston, TX
I highly suggest Facebook "activists" post more factual, scientific arguments made by those people instead of funny cartoons with squiggly lines intended to represent pollution.

Most of our friends aren't in the oil industry, and my husband doesn't work in unconventionals (fracking) so his livelihood is independent of that particular area of the energy industry. Further, I've had a problem with this long before anyone in my family worked for an oil company, so please avoid accusing either of us of being biased because of where he works. In addition to being desperate and lame, it's wholly untrue.

I'm not for or against fracking. I'm just against the really lame ways anti-frackers make their points. Stick to the science and facts, avoid the cartoons and photoshopped signs, and you might have a chance.


Edited by past tense (04/18/13 11:05 AM)
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#1397790 - 04/18/13 11:33 AM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: past tense]
mimi33 Offline
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Registered: 01/30/02
Posts: 526
Loc: seneca falls, ny, usa
I suggest you don't throw all anti frackers into the same bucket. Many people who have come out against fracking ARE scientists and the things that I have read about fracking are based on factual evidence. But thanks for calling me desperate and lame. That's hysterical. And so totally based on science and facts.

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#1397792 - 04/18/13 11:38 AM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: mimi33]
past tense Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 29680
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: mimi33
I suggest you don't throw all anti frackers into the same bucket. Many people who have come out against fracking ARE scientists and the things that I have read about fracking are based on factual evidence. But thanks for calling me desperate and lame. That's hysterical. And so totally based on science and facts.


Desperation and lame-osity are not scientific so much as forum-ific. In this thread you are demonstrating both. If there were scientific methods to measure desperation and lameness, I'd cite that info, to be sure.

You are happy to lump me into a category of people who support something because a relative happens to work in a (separate, unrelated) area of the same sector. Are you weepy over being lumped? I'm over it--you should be, too.
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#1397796 - 04/18/13 11:48 AM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: past tense]
Sam the Sham Offline
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Registered: 04/14/00
Posts: 603
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: past tense
File under: DUH


I agree with you to a point.

However, the local anti-frackers have spent months, if not years, falsely insisting that the process is imminent in the Finger Lakes, and demanding local moratoriums or outright bans on that false premise.

Therefore, the article and the information in it, are welcome.

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#1397797 - 04/18/13 11:49 AM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: Sam the Sham]
past tense Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 29680
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: Sam the Sham
Originally Posted By: past tense
File under: DUH


I agree with you to a point.

However, the local anti-frackers have spent months, if not years, falsely insisting that the process is imminent in the Finger Lakes, and demanding local moratoriums or outright bans on that false premise.

Therefore, the article and the information in it, are welcome.


EXACTLY.
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#1397799 - 04/18/13 11:53 AM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: past tense]
Sam the Sham Offline
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Registered: 04/14/00
Posts: 603
Loc: USA
It's one of many things they've done to undermine their credibility in this area of discussion, in fact.

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#1397800 - 04/18/13 12:00 PM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: Sam the Sham]
past tense Offline
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Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 29680
Loc: Houston, TX
I let myself get into a discussion on Facebook about it with a friend of a friend--something I try not to do after the last election.

The issue was a photoshopped image that depicted a New York State Historical sign. The sign read--and I'm paraphrasing--"Here is the former site of [Fake Town Name] which was destroyed by fracking in 2012 (or 2013)". And anti-frackers were SHARING this on Facebook! As if it were real!

I'm sorry, but that is about as lazy a way to make your point--and call yourself an "activist"--as I can think of. The folks who thought that image was clever tried telling me that it's "just humor" and "makes a statement". I'm sorry, but you're going against an industry full of scientists and engineers who are going to present facts, figures, charts, and science--not to mention the 30+ years of fracking experience they already have. Your cute little photoshopped signs and stupid cartoons make you look ridiculous.

Facts. Figures. Charts. Science. Not Photoshop. Not cartoons. Not false information about where fracking will occur. It makes me crazy.
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#1397801 - 04/18/13 12:04 PM Re: Geologist: Fracking Unlikely in Seneca County [Re: SportsNut]
Fart in the Wind Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 366
Loc: beneath the Utica Shale
Originally Posted By: SportsNut
Unless I missed it, where in the article does it say that fracking is unlikely in Seneca County ?


Quote:
Chemung, Tioga and Broome counties are the only areas where the Marcellus is likely to be fracked in this state, said Foster. Although the Utica Shale, which is far beneath the Marcellus, is thick enough to frack, it is not regarded as worth drilling with existing technology. Where the Utica was fracked in the St. Lawrence valley, he said, the rate of production was low. Most of us wont live to see the Utica shale fracked around here.

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