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#1387920 --- 02/19/13 03:01 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: kyle585]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Ohithere
Making them carry liability insurance is only right, if you drive a motor vehicle, do you think that your” irresponsible” actions may cause possible death and monetary duress to the innocent party? or should they shoulder the blame caused by you and you only?
I had not thought of this before but it makes a lot of sense.
It's not just the irresponsible actions of otherwise law abiding citizens -- there are also those purely unintentional events that occur randomly, called accidents. A shooting victim should be entitled to compensation whether the wound was intentional, the result of irresponsible actions, or purely an accident.

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#1387926 --- 02/19/13 03:09 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: twocats]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: twocats
The laws are also in place so there is a legal reason for locking up people who do not abide by society's laws. If there were no laws, people could not be found guilty of breaking them.


Agreed, so enforce the laws. A girl is shot and killed by a gang in Chicago, instead of arresting and ataking the guns away from the criminal, the answer is to limit the guns that law abiding citezens can have. That does not make a lot of sense.


Edited by cwjga (02/19/13 03:09 PM)
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#1387927 --- 02/19/13 03:10 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Ohithere
Making them carry liability insurance is only right, if you drive a motor vehicle, do you think that your” irresponsible” actions may cause possible death and monetary duress to the innocent party? or should they shoulder the blame caused by you and you only?
I had not thought of this before but it makes a lot of sense.
It's not just the irresponsible actions of otherwise law abiding citizens -- there are also those purely unintentional events that occur randomly, called accidents. A shooting victim should be entitled to compensation whether the wound was intentional, the result of irresponsible actions, or purely an accident.


Who says that they are not?
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Liberal heads are exploding, so easy

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#1387929 --- 02/19/13 03:18 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: cwjga]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Through insurance? The thought here is to require a gun owner to carry some specific liability insurance to allow others to receive compensation in the event of injury or death from a gun. If the gun owner has no assets, how else is the victim to receive compensation?

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#1387951 --- 02/19/13 06:55 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: twocats]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: twocats
Kyle, I watched a sad story about deaths caused by texting while driving. I saw how families of victims stood up and demanded changes in laws to make texting while driving a crime similar to driving while under the influence



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01 - 20 - 2017

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#1387965 --- 02/19/13 07:32 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: sands]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
There’s freedom in gun control
http://lmcexperience.com/perspectives/2013/01/28/theres-freedom-in-gun-control/

Kellie McCown

January 28, 2013
Filed under Perspectives

The general argument surrounding gun control is that guns don’t kill people, people kill people. I agree 100 percent.

But, guns do make it a whole lot easier for people to kill people.

In light of the recent school shooting in New Town Connecticut, we as a people need to take a serious look at the ownership of firearms, and how our society glorifies guns while the mentally ill slip through the cracks.

Americans love making laws that make people safer. For instance, driving a car is a great responsibility, much like owning a gun. In response to the serious consequences one faces when misusing a car, we as a nation have rules and regulations that motorists must follow when operating a motor vehicle. As a result, over the past three decades the deaths resulting from driving under the influence has gone down. Why not apply the same regulations to guns?

The second amendment states that, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” What this does not say is that every American citizen can own and operate semi-automatic firearms. When the constitution was written, the original Framers intended to restrict the influence of Congress from allowing the states right to self-defense by establishing a “well regulated Militia”. Scholars have come to call this theory “The Collective Rights Theory.” A collective rights theory of the Second Amendment asserts that citizens do not have an individual right to possess guns, and that local, state, and federal legislative bodies therefore possess the authority to regulate firearms without infringing on constitutional right.

And United States courts agree with the Collective Rights Theory. In 1939, the Collective Rights Theory was used in the United States vs. Miller where it was determined that Congress could regulate a sawed-off shotgun that had moved in interstate commerce under the National Firearms Act of 1934 because the evidence did not suggest that the shotgun “has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated Militia.” The Court then explained that the Framers included the Second Amendment to ensure the effectiveness of the military.

Furthermore, the argument that gun control is only going to result in the government taking away all guns and leaving the people helpless and dependent only compromises the security of our citizens as guns will never disappear. Not one person in a public office has said that a persons firearms are going to be taken away from them, but it is not safe for serious firearms such as assault weapons and magazines that are able to hold large amounts of ammunition to be sold to the masses without mental and criminal background checks. These weapons are designed to kill on a massive scale, and should not be sold beside non military grade weapons.

Taking guns away does not disguise the real issue of American mental health. The government‘s failure to give substantial aid to the mentally ill drives citizens to ask the question, “Why do people gravitate towards guns?” Mental health is becoming a wider and more serious sociological issue in the United States as we are seeing its effects through violence and most imperatively, deadly shootings. Being wrapped up in the fear that the government will one day break into our homes and take away our guns only distracts from more serious and pressing present day problems.

Gun control only means just that. Controlling guns. It is our constitutional right to own firearm, but it is our right to humanity, to each other, to come to a common ground and protect the mental, emotional and physical safety of all citizens by any means possible.
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#1387971 --- 02/19/13 08:23 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: kyle585]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
In response to the serious consequences one faces when misusing a car, we as a nation have rules and regulations that motorists must follow when operating a motor vehicle.

Over 35,000 deaths per year but no one has ever tried to tell me I have to give up my car
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#1387972 --- 02/19/13 08:38 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: kyle585]
evilducky Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 78
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Not one person in a public office has said that a persons firearms are going to be taken away from them....
Oh really?! Ask our Fuhrer Cuomo about this one... "Democrats in New York ran for cover in response to fallout after Gov. Andrew Cuomo said confiscation is the goal of new gun laws introduced in the state legislature. “Confiscation could be an option. Mandatory sale to the state could be an option,” Cuomo said in December." Confiscation is taking away isn't it?

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#1387977 --- 02/19/13 09:11 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: evilducky]
Hello_Governer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 1661
Loc: New York, Seneca
LA Riots. Only people who didn't get their stores looted in the hot zone were the Koreans who were brandishing assault rifles from the roof top of their baracaded store. They incurred absolutely no damage from the riots while pretty much their entire block was either looted or destroyed. Good example of how the police are sometimes powerless to protect the citizens and it makes it pretty obvious why citizens deserve to opportunity to own these types of weapons. If theres one lesson prohibition has taught the world is that it always fails miserably and always ushers in more crime than it stops.


Edited by Hello_Governer (02/19/13 09:12 PM)
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#1387984 --- 02/19/13 09:43 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: sands]
Ohithere Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1246
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: kyle585
In response to the serious consequences one faces when misusing a car, we as a nation have rules and regulations that motorists must follow when operating a motor vehicle.

Over 35,000 deaths per year but no one has ever tried to tell me I have to give up my car


Maybe.....whats the probability of any individual directly or indirectly being the cause of those 35000 death being told not necessarily to give up their car but being told that their auto insurance is cancelled. An auto insurer may terminate the auto policy at their discretion with one stipulation; they are required to send a notice at least ten days before the policy is to be canceled. A possibility for the cancellation of a policy by the insurer is when the driver has been deemed too dangerous to insure i.e. receiving numerous traffic tickets, accidents, DWI’s or making too many claims. BTW the state can exercise the same rights in restricting or revoking your driver's license for some of the same reasons. Remember....Driving is a Privilege, Not a Right


Edited by Ohithere (02/19/13 09:49 PM)

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#1387985 --- 02/19/13 09:51 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: sands]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: kyle585
In response to the serious consequences one faces when misusing a car, we as a nation have rules and regulations that motorists must follow when operating a motor vehicle.

Over 35,000 deaths per year but no one has ever tried to tell me I have to give up my car
No, but every state in the country has laws that tell you that you must register a car, must have a license to operate a car, must have insurance to put a car on the road, and have a car subject to inspection. Also, there are laws on the books that determine where you may legally operate your car, how fast you may drive, under what conditions you may drive, etc. So just give up on the silly comparisons to cars, sands, it's a stupid argument. Although, as Momma Gump allegedly said, stupid is as stupid does.

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#1387994 --- 02/19/13 11:26 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: sands]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14345
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: kyle585
In response to the serious consequences one faces when misusing a car, we as a nation have rules and regulations that motorists must follow when operating a motor vehicle.

Over 35,000 deaths per year but no one has ever tried to tell me I have to give up my car

It's a complete false equivalence.
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#1388002 --- 02/20/13 04:20 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: kyle585
In response to the serious consequences one faces when misusing a car, we as a nation have rules and regulations that motorists must follow when operating a motor vehicle.
Over 35,000 deaths per year but no one has ever tried to tell me I have to give up my car
No, but every state in the country has laws that tell you that you must register a car, must have a license to operate a car, must have insurance to put a car on the road, and have a car subject to inspection. Also, there are laws on the books that determine where you may legally operate your car, how fast you may drive, under what conditions you may drive, etc.

If I build a private track on my land, none of those things apply. What if I build a private range on my land? Can I own any gun I want
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#1388010 --- 02/20/13 06:19 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: sands]
SportsRef1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 3225
Loc: Seneca County

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#1388026 --- 02/20/13 08:18 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: SportsRef1]
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Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7644

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#1388027 --- 02/20/13 08:18 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: sands]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: sands
Over 35,000 deaths per year but no one has ever tried to tell me I have to give up my car
No, but every state in the country has laws that tell you that you must register a car, must have a license to operate a car, must have insurance to put a car on the road, and have a car subject to inspection. Also, there are laws on the books that determine where you may legally operate your car, how fast you may drive, under what conditions you may drive, etc.
Quote:

If I build a private track on my land, none of those things apply. What if I build a private range on my land? Can I own any gun I want
You might be free to drive anywhere on your property, as fast or recklessly as you wish, drunk or sober, but you're still required to title the vehicle to show proof of ownership. There might still be some restrictions depending on how close your "private track" is to a neighbor's residence. As for owning any kind of gun you want as long as it's used at your "private range," the answer is still no. There are certain types of firearms that are already restricted and for which you must register and pay a transfer tax, e.g., machine guns. And let's not get into a discussion of artillery weapons, since I hope that's not what you want to own and fire on your own land.

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#1388038 --- 02/20/13 09:35 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
Originally Posted By: sands
Over 35,000 deaths per year but no one has ever tried to tell me I have to give up my car
No, but every state in the country has laws that tell you that you must register a car, must have a license to operate a car, must have insurance to put a car on the road, and have a car subject to inspection. Also, there are laws on the books that determine where you may legally operate your car, how fast you may drive, under what conditions you may drive, etc.
Quote:

If I build a private track on my land, none of those things apply. What if I build a private range on my land? Can I own any gun I want
You might be free to drive anywhere on your property, as fast or recklessly as you wish, drunk or sober, but you're still required to title the vehicle to show proof of ownership. There might still be some restrictions depending on how close your "private track" is to a neighbor's residence. As for owning any kind of gun you want as long as it's used at your "private range," the answer is still no. There are certain types of firearms that are already restricted and for which you must register and pay a transfer tax, e.g., machine guns. And let's not get into a discussion of artillery weapons, since I hope that's not what you want to own and fire on your own land.


No your not.
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#1388044 --- 02/20/13 09:46 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: cwjga]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
I guess my question for you, cwjga, is why anyone would buy a car or truck without any title. If the person who holds the title comes along and says that the vehicle was stolen, it would seem that the title would establish ownership in the eyes of the law and you'd forfeit whatever you paid for the vehicle. And just how would you get such a vehicle to the private land with no registration, no title, etc., and no travelling on public roads.

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#1388045 --- 02/20/13 09:48 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
This is a silly argument. What percentage of gun owners can build a private range?


Edited by twocats (02/20/13 09:49 AM)
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#1388046 --- 02/20/13 09:49 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: twocats]
Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7644
Originally Posted By: twocats
This is a silly argument anyways. What percentage of gun owners can build a private range anyways?
I have one!

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