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#1387820 --- 02/18/13 03:41 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: SportsRef1]
Ohithere Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1246
Originally Posted By: SportsRef1

"If your gun is lost or stolen, you can be fined for improperly securing a dangerous weapon. If your gun is used to commit a crime, you can be held responsible along with the person who commits the crime of course."


radical at best....your line of thought would lend credence to the theory that everything that does or could cause harm should be regulated and litigated....you probably are against tort reform also......but as history and stats show, a criminal will get the guns if they want them bad enough.....all the laws will not stop a well driven criminal.



Your excessive criminal elements theory doesn’t always wash, shooters in Newtown this past year, Virginia Tech University in April 2007, Columbine High School in 1999, Fort Hood, Texas, where a deranged army psychiatrist mowed down 13 soldiers in November 2009, and the Aurora, Colorado, movie theatre. There have been mass killings at Amish settlements and Sikh temples. Approximately 30,000 people are killed each year by guns, half murders, and half suicides. On yesterday, Mindy McCready, whose turbulent personal life overshadowed her musical career, was found dead on the front porch of her Arkansas home, a victim of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Criminals with guns account for many deaths but in your justification, don't disregard the masses killed by those with no major criminal background or maybe you can explain the difference between a death committed by a total stranger versus one being killed by their classmates, husband, wife, peers,angry and disgruntled co-worker and most sadly....taking one's own life?

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#1387821 --- 02/18/13 03:59 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: cwjga]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
The opinions expressed by Cyrus Massoumi, aka Mr. Conservative, are shared by many, I'm sure. They all seem to have a root in an extreme conservative interpretation of the 2nd amendment. I would point out, however, that the 2nd amendment is a few lines in an imperfect document that was drafted more than two hundred years ago by imperfect men. It has been modified and interpreted many times since the signatures first appeared. The Supreme Court has ruled that the 2nd amendment, and the "right" to bear arms, doesn't mean that anyone can have whatever gun he or she chooses to have, and that reasonable restrictions and regulations may be imposed. The problem with so many who are opposed to gun "control" is that they seem to think it means confiscation and that the government is somehow in a conspiracy to annihilate a large portion of the population. That kind of paranoia makes it difficult for any reasonable dialogue to occur or for any meaningful action to be taken to reduce the tragedy of so many deaths caused by guns each year.

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#1387822 --- 02/18/13 04:00 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: Ohithere]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Ohithere



Your excessive criminal elements theory doesn’t always wash, shooters in Newtown this past year, Virginia Tech University in April 2007, Columbine High School in 1999, Fort Hood, Texas, where a deranged army psychiatrist mowed down 13 soldiers in November 2009, and the Aurora, Colorado, movie theatre.


All criminals, except Army guy, who was a terrorist committing a terrorist attack on FOrt Hood.

But nice try.
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#1387824 --- 02/18/13 04:11 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: cwjga]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Over my lifetime, I have been witness to over a dozen suicides or attempted suicides, and NONE involved a handgun. Also, I have witnessed the aftermath of dozens of people "just having a good time" killing someone on the road after drinking. Can you remind me again of a "valid need" for alcohol?
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. - Dr. Lawrence J. Peter

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#1387826 --- 02/18/13 04:43 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: cwjga]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: SportsRef1
you may wanna read up on Chicago and NYC.....some of the toughest gun laws in the world,(guns are banned there except for the few people who have a card in their wallet saying they are authorized to carry the gun) and it's the criminals committing the crimes, not law abiding citizens.
Sure it is. But if the cops had the ability to take away a gun from anybody who did not have a card in his wallet saying he was authorized to carry the gun could make a huge difference.
They can, and yet Chicago and NYC have extremly high crime rates.




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#1387827 --- 02/18/13 04:59 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
I would point out, however, that the 2nd amendment is a few lines in an imperfect document that was drafted more than two hundred years ago by imperfect men. It has been modified and interpreted many times since the signatures first appeared.


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#1387841 --- 02/18/13 07:03 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: SportsRef1]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14344
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: SportsRef1
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Kyle, you have done a great job of illustrating why more gun laws are not needed. We need to inforce the ones already on the books.
Not true. If what I am proposing was in effect in Newton, CT, the boys mother could of been charged with a crime for letting her son have access to her gun. Gun owners need to take more responsibility for securing their weapons.
Originally Posted By: kyle585
If your gun is lost or stolen, you can be fined for improperly securing a dangerous weapon. If your gun is used to commit a crime, you can be held responsible along with the person who commits the crime of course.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/lanza-psychic-break-article-1.1243602

The high-powered weapons that Adam Lanza used in his murderous rampage weren’t routinely locked up in his home even though his mother knew he had serious psychological problems, a close family friend told the Daily News.

Nancy Lanza had brought her son to a psychiatrist and pushed him to get out of the house as he became increasingly antisocial, according to a friend of Ms. Lanza. The mother also kept guns in her house routinely unlocked.


and charging her with a crime would have saved how many of those people in Conn. Kyle?......you miss the whole picture, and prove again that all you liberals want to do is create more govt. control.....you may wanna read up on Chicago and NYC.....some of the toughest gun laws in the world, and it's the criminals committing the crimes, not law abiding citizens.

through Jan 29th. 2013 there were 41 murders in Chicago and 21 in NYC....Source NY Post....(an 18% drop in NYC I might add) but as the article goes on to explain there are 2 different styles of policing going on in each city....Rahm Emanual(former "O" chief of staff) chooses to go after the banks and gunmakers, not the criminals while NYC chooses to stop, question and frisk......point being Kyle...enforce the laws we have or get a little better at policing.....liberal law making done in reaction to a problem solves nothing.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/nyc_murder_freeze_iAEqvcYqpHanGKfKKeOOTJ

...and once again the gun kooks want accountability for everyone and everything, until it's suggested that they too should be accountable.
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Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

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#1387847 --- 02/18/13 07:52 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: cwjga]
Ohithere Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1246
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: Ohithere



Your excessive criminal elements theory doesn’t always wash, shooters in Newtown this past year, Virginia Tech University in April 2007, Columbine High School in 1999, Fort Hood, Texas, where a deranged army psychiatrist mowed down 13 soldiers in November 2009, and the Aurora, Colorado, movie theatre.


All criminals, except Army guy, who was a terrorist committing a terrorist attack on FOrt Hood.

But nice try.



Partial truths can be considered the same as as whole LIES
but nice try ;\)

Adam Peter Lanza was born on April 22, 1992, in Exeter, New Hampshire.He and his mother lived in Sandy Hook, 5 miles (8 km) from the elementary school. He did not have a criminal record. He attended Sandy Hook Elementary School for a brief time.[Afterward, he attended St. Rose of Lima Catholic School in Newtown and then Newtown High School, where he was an honors student.Lanza subsequently was home-schooled by his mother, and earned a GED.
Seung-Hui Cho the Virginia Tech University shooter
Born in South Korea, Cho arrived in the United States at the age of eight with his family. He became a US permanent resident as a South Korean national.In middle school, he was diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder known as selective mutism, as well as major depressive disorder.After this diagnosis he began receiving treatment and continued to receive therapy and special education support until his junior year of high school. During Cho's last two years at Virginia Tech, several instances of his abnormal behavior, as well as plays and other writings he submitted containing references to violence, caused concern among teachers and classmates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Eagan_Holmes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting


Edited by Ohithere (02/18/13 07:54 PM)

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#1387857 --- 02/18/13 09:19 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: Ohithere]
MeRightYouWrong Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1597
Loc: Mountain of Truth
Bill Cooper tried to warn us in his book "Behold a Pale Horse", published in 1990:



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#1387858 --- 02/18/13 09:42 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: MeRightYouWrong]
Ohithere Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1246
I would comment on your post but the Martians may come to beam me up from my home ;\) I vaguely remember an attempt at reading the book years ago but paranoia or boredom got the best of me, BTW: remember George Orwell's 1984?


Edited by Ohithere (02/18/13 09:44 PM)

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#1387859 --- 02/18/13 09:49 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: Ohithere]
I did it! Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1960
Loc: West Coast 29 Palms
Fort Hood, Texas, where a deranged army psychiatrist mowed down 13 soldiers in November 2009 anmd hy is he sill breathing? Quilty without a questionable doubt.
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#1387860 --- 02/18/13 09:56 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: I did it!]
I did it! Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1960
Loc: West Coast 29 Palms

Originally Posted By: cwjga

Kyle, you have done a great job of illustrating why more gun laws are not needed. We need to inforce the ones already on the books.
Not true. If what I am proposing was in effect in Newton, CT, the boys mother could of been charged with a crime for letting her son have access to her gun. Gun owners need to take more responsibility for securing their weapons.

amen, start with Gov Cuomo and family. He wants casinos instead so he can collect on his support from the mobs that control him
JMHO He's not Irish so wonder just how connected he is?
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“The manner in which it is given is worth more than the gift”.

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#1387861 --- 02/18/13 10:09 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: sands]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Typical conservative reply from you, Sands... a cartoon. I guess reasoned debate is beyond your capability.

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#1387870 --- 02/19/13 08:01 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: sands]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
I just heard on the TV news that a lawmaker from Brooklyn is proposing that everyone who owns a gun must carry a one million dollar liability insurance policy.


Edited by kyle585 (02/19/13 01:29 PM)
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#1387875 --- 02/19/13 09:09 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: kyle585]
SportsRef1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 3225
Loc: Seneca County
I'm sure he was shot by law abiding citizens......


http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/story/Sy...Y8aRjXETNQ.cspx

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#1387880 --- 02/19/13 10:36 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: kyle585]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Kyle, I watched a sad story about deaths caused by texting while driving. I saw how families of victims stood up and demanded changes in laws to make texting while driving a crime similar to driving while under the influence, and I remembered how the law is always behind technology and it is starting to catch up, at least in this case.

But then I stopped, and thought like a Conservative. Why have these laws at all? Teenagers always break rules, so what's the point? People will still break the law and text while driving. Why pass laws about it if people will still do it anyways?

Then I was rational again and realized the laws are trying to prevent unnecessary deaths and will prevent some people from texting and driving because they do not want to break the law. Will it stop everyone? No. Will it stop many, many people? Yes. Seems reasonable to me.
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Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1387883 --- 02/19/13 10:53 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: SportsRef1]
Ohithere Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 1246
Originally Posted By: SportsRef1
I'm sure he was shot by law abiding citizens......


http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/story/Sy...Y8aRjXETNQ.cspx



In an attempt to protect ourselves from dangerous people, some gun owners like George Zimmerman walk among us, with a vigilante mentality, which in itself is just as dangerous. There are countless numbers of “shoot now and ask question later” gun owners which only exacerbates the problem for the truly responsible gun owners. Making them carry liability insurance is only right, if you drive a motor vehicle, do you think that your” irresponsible” actions may cause possible death and monetary duress to the innocent party? or should they shoulder the blame caused by you and you only?

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#1387905 --- 02/19/13 02:01 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: Ohithere]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Ohithere
Making them carry liability insurance is only right, if you drive a motor vehicle, do you think that your” irresponsible” actions may cause possible death and monetary duress to the innocent party? or should they shoulder the blame caused by you and you only?
I had not thought of this before but it makes a lot of sense.
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#1387906 --- 02/19/13 02:04 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: twocats]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: twocats
Kyle, I watched a sad story about deaths caused by texting while driving. I saw how families of victims stood up and demanded changes in laws to make texting while driving a crime similar to driving while under the influence, and I remembered how the law is always behind technology and it is starting to catch up, at least in this case.

But then I stopped, and thought like a Conservative. Why have these laws at all? Teenagers always break rules, so what's the point? People will still break the law and text while driving. Why pass laws about it if people will still do it anyways?

Then I was rational again and realized the laws are trying to prevent unnecessary deaths and will prevent some people from texting and driving because they do not want to break the law. Will it stop everyone? No. Will it stop many, many people? Yes. Seems reasonable to me.
As I said before, almost every law we have is to protect the majority law abiding citizen from the lawbreakers if you think about it.
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**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1387913 --- 02/19/13 02:47 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: kyle585]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
The laws are also in place so there is a legal reason for locking up people who do not abide by society's laws. If there were no laws, people could not be found guilty of breaking them.
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Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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