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#1387698 --- 02/18/13 04:17 AM My thoughts on gun control
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
My thoughts on gun control:

I saw an editorial cartoon in a newspaper. It showed a picture of a car, a boat, a dog, and a gun. The caption said which one can you own without registering? The answer of course, is your gun. You must register your car, your boat and your dog. But nobody is trying to take these items away from you because you must register them, are they? So why not let everyone own all the guns they want but they must register them and pay a nominal registration fee of say $5 per year per gun? If you want to own 10 guns it will cost you $50 a year to register and own them.

I recently saw a Republican congressman on TV from Oregon. He said I have several guns my father left me. If I want to give them to my brother, does he have to pay a background check? I say yes. You and your brother go to the county clerks office (or whoever handles gun registration) and say I want to transfer gun ownership to my brother.

The gun official asks for identification from both of you and you fill out forms about what guns are being transferred. The gun transfer official puts the gun buyers identification into the computer and determines the potential new gun owner is not a convicted felon or otherwise a threat to society. In a few minutes the transfer is complete and the new gun owner is given a wallet sized card showing the guns he owns. I don‘t see this as a big burden on buyer or seller any different than transferring ownership of a car or a boat? If your gun is lost or stolen, you can be fined for improperly securing a dangerous weapon. If your gun is used to commit a crime, you can be held responsible along with the person who commits the crime of course. This is the same concept that if your dog bites someone you can be held liable whether you are there or not.

If a police officer stops you in your car, the first thing he asks is to see your drivers license and your car registration. I have never hear anyone object to this requirement? If a police officer sees you carrying a gun in public or suspects you are carrying a concealed weapon, he asks for your authority to carry it. You pull out of your wallet a card which shows you are the gun owner and authorized to carry it. If you can’t produce such a card, you are in trouble. If you are hunting deer, you currently must have your hunting license on your person to show authorities when requested to do so.

Why won’t this system work? It will not restrict the ability of any responsible citizen to keep and bare all the arms they want and it would help us get a handle on the millions of guns now floating around this country with no accountability whatsoever.
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#1387701 --- 02/18/13 07:21 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: kyle585]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
My thoughts on gun control:

I saw an editorial cartoon in a newspaper. It showed a picture of a car, a boat, a dog, and a gun. The caption said which one can you own without registering? The answer of course, is your gun. I have to register my guns, Where do you live? If I buy a new gun I can not take position of it until I register it and show that I did so. You must register your car, your boat and your dog. But nobody is trying to take these items away from you because you must register them, are they? So why not let everyone own all the guns they want but they must register them and pay a nominal registration fee of say $5 per year per gun? If you want to own 10 guns it will cost you $50 a year to register and own them.

I recently saw a Republican congressman on TV from Oregon. He said I have several guns my father left me. If I want to give them to my brother, does he have to pay a background check? I say yes. You and your brother go to the county clerks office (or whoever handles gun registration) and say I want to transfer gun ownership to my brother. Since you have to have a permit (aka background check to own a gun) and you have to transfer the gun from one permit to the other, this already takes place.

The gun official asks for identification from both of you and you fill out forms about what guns are being transferred. The gun transfer official puts the gun buyers identification into the computer and determines the potential new gun owner is not a convicted felon or otherwise a threat to society. In a few minutes the transfer is complete and the new gun owner is given a wallet sized card showing the guns he owns. I don‘t see this as a big burden on buyer or seller any different than transferring ownership of a car or a boat? If your gun is lost or stolen, you can be fined for improperly securing a dangerous weapon. If your gun is used to commit a crime, you can be held responsible along with the person who commits the crime of course. This is the same concept that if your dog bites someone you can be held liable whether you are there or not.

If a police officer stops you in your car, the first thing he asks is to see your drivers license and your car registration. I have never hear anyone object to this requirement? If a police officer sees you carrying a gun in public or suspects you are carrying a concealed weapon, he asks for your authority to carry it. You pull out of your wallet a card which shows you are the gun owner and authorized to carry it. If you can’t produce such a card, you are in trouble. If you are hunting deer, you currently must have your hunting license on your person to show authorities when requested to do so. You are correct, this already happens.

Why won’t this system work? It will not restrict the ability of any responsible citizen to keep and bare all the arms they want and it would help us get a handle on the millions of guns now floating around this country with no accountability whatsoever.


Kyle, you have done a great job of illustrating why more gun laws are not needed. We need to inforce the ones already on the books.
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#1387707 --- 02/18/13 07:38 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: cwjga]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Kyle, you have done a great job of illustrating why more gun laws are not needed. We need to inforce the ones already on the books.
Not true. If what I am proposing was in effect in Newton, CT, the boys mother could of been charged with a crime for letting her son have access to her gun. Gun owners need to take more responsibility for securing their weapons.
Originally Posted By: kyle585
If your gun is lost or stolen, you can be fined for improperly securing a dangerous weapon. If your gun is used to commit a crime, you can be held responsible along with the person who commits the crime of course.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/lanza-psychic-break-article-1.1243602

The high-powered weapons that Adam Lanza used in his murderous rampage weren’t routinely locked up in his home even though his mother knew he had serious psychological problems, a close family friend told the Daily News.

Nancy Lanza had brought her son to a psychiatrist and pushed him to get out of the house as he became increasingly antisocial, according to a friend of Ms. Lanza. The mother also kept guns in her house routinely unlocked.


Edited by kyle585 (02/18/13 07:53 AM)
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#1387710 --- 02/18/13 07:57 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: cwjga]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Since you have to have a permit (aka background check to own a gun) and you have to transfer the gun from one permit to the other, this already takes place.
It is my understanding that this does not apply at gun shows?
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#1387711 --- 02/18/13 07:58 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: cwjga]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: cwjga
I have to register my guns, Where do you live? If I buy a new gun I can not take position of it until I register it and show that I did so.
That may be true in NY state but I don't think that is how it works in many other states?
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#1387712 --- 02/18/13 08:00 AM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: cwjga]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
cwjga, your comments in red are appreciated. But in New York state, your comments apply only to handguns, right? Although you have to pass a background check to buy a long gun from a dealer, there is no record kept by the state or county, as far as I know, and in the case of a long gun being sold by a non-dealer there isn't even a background check, thus no permit, no record of any kind. And of course there's the point that NY gun laws with regard to permits and sale are different from neighboring states. There's no consistency throughout the country. I'm of the opinion that all guns should be registered and permitted, and that all states should recognize the permits issued by other states in the same type of reciprocity that is used for drivers' licences and vehicle registration.

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#1387776 --- 02/18/13 12:46 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: kyle585]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
Kyle here are someone elses thoughts on gun control. I think they also show that the real problem is that we do not inforce the laws already on the books.


Letter from Mr. Conservative: The Truth About Guns – Debunking the Myths


February 17, 2013

Debunking Every Gun Myth – A Look at Gun Facts

2.5 Million times every year, or about 6,850 times per day, Law Abiding Citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals.

Statistically, 80 times more often guns are used to protect the lives of honest people, rather than to take innocent life.

Concealed carry laws have reduced murder rates by 8.5% in states that have enacted them. This means, that in states where Politicians vote against concealed carry laws, they are responsible for 8.5% of murders.

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics & National Crime Victims Survey:
550 Rapes and 1,100 Murders are prevented EVERY DAY just by SHOWING a gun.
According to the National Institute of Justice there are approximately 2 million defensive gun uses per year by law abiding citizens.

Connecticut ALREADY HAD an Assault Weapons Ban, so how could implementing a National Ban have prevented the Sandy Hook tragedy?

Some argue “Accidents with firearms kill kids, so we must have gun control laws” so we looked at All Accidental Deaths between 1999 and 2006:
There were 60,684 accidental deaths in total. Unintentional firearm deaths were 980 of these.
8 times more people drowned to death and 36 times more people died in car accidents. — Ask yourself if more people died accidentally from firearms or if more peoples lives were saved due to responsible gun ownership?

According to the FBI:
In 2011 323 people were killed using “Assault Weapons”
In the same year 496 people were killed using hammers.


Guns may kill people, but evil does not exist within the mind of a gun, it exists within the hearts and minds of those who pull the trigger with evil purposes.

According to the FBI:
99.9% of all guns in America are not used in violent crimes.
99.8% of all guns are not used in crime at all.
Only 1% of the time when a gun is being used in defense, does the criminal take the gun from the defender.
Only 4% of guns used in crimes were obtained legally.

As such, if a gun ban is implemented, it could not, and will not stop these purchases, if we banned guns entirely, we could only hope to reduce crime using guns 4% in theory. In reality we would completely disarm law abiding citizens and leave them completely defenseless to criminals.

90% of crimes using guns occur in gun free zones.



We looked at over 100 different mass shootings that we found in various media reports, we found that the average number of people killed in mass shootings when stopped by police was 14.29, the average number of people killed when stopped by a civilian was 2.33

In 1976 Washington D.C. passed a major gun control law banning people from owning guns in their homes.
After this the murder rate in D.C. went up 134%
The murder rate across the nation went down 2%.
It’s safe to assume criminals in D.C. didn’t turn in their guns.
The D.C. Gun Ban was later overturned by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional.

If you lived in a gun free zone, or you live somewhere where guns are banned, thus becoming a gun free zone, when someone breaks into your house, what do you think the result is?

Objectively, you will be handing over the responsibility of your and your families protection over to the government. So, you’ll call the police. The average response time for law enforcement to reach your house is 23 minutes across the United States. If someone breaks into your house, to hurt you and your family, what will realistically happen to you during those 23 minutes?
A question to ask yourself:
Is your life worth protecting?
THEN: If it is, then why don’t you deserve the right to own a gun to protect your life with?
SO, THEN: Why would you trust someone else(a government employee) to own a gun to protect you, and not yourself?

Is Gun Control about reducing violence, or is it about – Control?

Under American occupation, every Iraqi family was allowed to keep a fully automatic firearm for protection. In America, fully automatics are already illegal, the government wants to ban semi-automatic firearms, which they define as “Assault Weapons” because they have “military characteristics”. Doesn’t that mean the government trusted Iraqi’s more than Americans to responsibly own firearms?

If guns cause violence, then in places where there are more guns, there should be more violence.
In Switzerland, 1 out of every 2 citizens owns a gun, guns are carried in public freely.
Switzerland has the lowest crime rate in the world.

Many think Conservatives are crazy for wanting to own a gun to defend against “government tyranny”. Some people believe that despite the above data, the right of gun owners to own guns needs to be matched with reasonable gun control and that the 2nd Amendment provides protections for hunters, that these guns are not for hunting.
Furthermore, others say that the 2nd Amendment was only for single shot muskets, and did not apply to any other guns.
The question is, are gun owners right in thinking that they need guns to defend against government tyranny?
Do citizens have a right to own guns that are of comparable combat utility as military guns?

An in depth analysis of the 2nd Amendment leads me to the following conclusions:
1.There is no mention of hunting or target practice. Hunting was the equivalent of going to the supermarket, families hunted. Furthermore, back then there was no such thing as “shooting ranges”, lead used for musket balls was scarce and couldn’t be wasted.
2.There is direct mention of a well regulated militia. There are also plenty of quotes about protection from tyranny, specifically government tyranny by the men who wrote The Constitution.
3.The 2nd Amendment definitively can be read to define that citizens have a right to own “Light Infantry” weapons. That means they can own guns comparable to military light infantry. The Founders wrote the constititution, let them speak for themselves…


“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” – George Mason

“And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …” Samuel Adams

“Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.” – George Washington

“The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.” – Alexander Hamilton

“The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution.” – Thomas Jefferson

“They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Ben Franklin

Some argue in turn that this is from an outdated time, and that the threat of government killing their citizens is a threat that we no longer have to live with. They say that the constitution is out dated. Again, we turn to the evidence…


Political scientist R.J. Rummel looked at over 8,000 reports of government caused deaths in the 20th century and found that 262 million people were killed by their governments, only one sixth this amount were killed in war between nations.

Recently a White House white paper was leaked to the press which said that if an American citizen becomes a terrorist even if there is no proven intelligence he is planning an attack against the United States it is “legal, ethical, and wise” to use a drone strike against him instead of risking the lives of Americans to capture him, essentially depriving a citizen of their right to trial by jury.

The U.S. government has assigned to itself, the right to kill its own citizens, in violation of the constitution which was designed as law for it’s own self-restraint.

So, are Conservatives right to want to have the ability to defend themselves against government?


Obama: “If there’s one life we can save, we’ve got an obligation to try.”

If we want to save lives, we should look at the facts, and the facts say what they say, as documented above. Share this article, so that we don’t lose the 2nd Amendment due to media hype.

Written By Cyrus Massoumi – Editor & Founder of Mr. Conservative
Find Cyrus on Facebook here
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#1387781 --- 02/18/13 12:53 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: kyle585]
SportsRef1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 3225
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: kyle585
My thoughts on gun control:

I saw an editorial cartoon in a newspaper. It showed a picture of a car, a boat, a dog, and a gun. The caption said which one can you own without registering? The answer of course, is your gun. You must register your car, your boat and your dog. But nobody is trying to take these items away from you because you must register them, are they? So why not let everyone own all the guns they want but they must register them and pay a nominal registration fee of say $5 per year per gun? If you want to own 10 guns it will cost you $50 a year to register and own them.

I recently saw a Republican congressman on TV from Oregon. He said I have several guns my father left me. If I want to give them to my brother, does he have to pay a background check? I say yes. You and your brother go to the county clerks office (or whoever handles gun registration) and say I want to transfer gun ownership to my brother.

The gun official asks for identification from both of you and you fill out forms about what guns are being transferred. The gun transfer official puts the gun buyers identification into the computer and determines the potential new gun owner is not a convicted felon or otherwise a threat to society. In a few minutes the transfer is complete and the new gun owner is given a wallet sized card showing the guns he owns. I don‘t see this as a big burden on buyer or seller any different than transferring ownership of a car or a boat? If your gun is lost or stolen, you can be fined for improperly securing a dangerous weapon. If your gun is used to commit a crime, you can be held responsible along with the person who commits the crime of course. This is the same concept that if your dog bites someone you can be held liable whether you are there or not.

If a police officer stops you in your car, the first thing he asks is to see your drivers license and your car registration. I have never hear anyone object to this requirement? If a police officer sees you carrying a gun in public or suspects you are carrying a concealed weapon, he asks for your authority to carry it. You pull out of your wallet a card which shows you are the gun owner and authorized to carry it. If you can’t produce such a card, you are in trouble. If you are hunting deer, you currently must have your hunting license on your person to show authorities when requested to do so.

Why won’t this system work? It will not restrict the ability of any responsible citizen to keep and bare all the arms they want and it would help us get a handle on the millions of guns now floating around this country with no accountability whatsoever.



the govt. tried this once Kyle......it was called Fast and Furious.....we all know how that turned out.

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#1387783 --- 02/18/13 12:57 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: kyle585]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
_________________________
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#1387784 --- 02/18/13 12:58 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: kyle585]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
You must register your car, your boat and your dog.
If the Second Amendment said, A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear cars, boats, and dogs shall not be infringed, you wouldn't have to.
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#1387785 --- 02/18/13 12:58 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: kyle585]
SportsRef1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 3225
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Kyle, you have done a great job of illustrating why more gun laws are not needed. We need to inforce the ones already on the books.
Not true. If what I am proposing was in effect in Newton, CT, the boys mother could of been charged with a crime for letting her son have access to her gun. Gun owners need to take more responsibility for securing their weapons.
Originally Posted By: kyle585
If your gun is lost or stolen, you can be fined for improperly securing a dangerous weapon. If your gun is used to commit a crime, you can be held responsible along with the person who commits the crime of course.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/lanza-psychic-break-article-1.1243602

The high-powered weapons that Adam Lanza used in his murderous rampage weren’t routinely locked up in his home even though his mother knew he had serious psychological problems, a close family friend told the Daily News.

Nancy Lanza had brought her son to a psychiatrist and pushed him to get out of the house as he became increasingly antisocial, according to a friend of Ms. Lanza. The mother also kept guns in her house routinely unlocked.



and charging her with a crime would have saved how many of those people in Conn. Kyle?......you miss the whole picture, and prove again that all you liberals want to do is create more govt. control.....you may wanna read up on Chicago and NYC.....some of the toughest gun laws in the world, and it's the criminals committing the crimes, not law abiding citizens.


through Jan 29th. 2013 there were 41 murders in Chicago and 21 in NYC....Source NY Post....(an 18% drop in NYC I might add) but as the article goes on to explain there are 2 different styles of policing going on in each city....Rahm Emanual(former "O" chief of staff) chooses to go after the banks and gunmakers, not the criminals while NYC chooses to stop, question and frisk......point being Kyle...enforce the laws we have or get a little better at policing.....liberal law making done in reaction to a problem solves nothing.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/nyc_murder_freeze_iAEqvcYqpHanGKfKKeOOTJ

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#1387786 --- 02/18/13 01:00 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: SportsRef1]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
_________________________
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#1387788 --- 02/18/13 01:02 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: sands]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
_________________________
Liberal heads are exploding, so easy

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#1387789 --- 02/18/13 01:05 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: kyle585]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
It will not restrict the ability of any responsible citizen to keep and bare all the arms they want

So your system requires everyone wear short sleeve shirts
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#1387802 --- 02/18/13 02:22 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: SportsRef1]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: SportsRef1
and charging her with a crime would have saved how many of those people in Conn. Kyle?......
She may very likely would of followed the law ahead of time if she knew it was the law and saved 26 lives. My suggested law:

Originally Posted By: kyle585

If your gun is lost or stolen, you can be fined for improperly securing a dangerous weapon. If your gun is used to commit a crime, you can be held responsible along with the person who commits the crime of course.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/lanza-psychic-break-article-1.1243602

The high-powered weapons that Adam Lanza used in his murderous rampage weren’t routinely locked up in his home even though his mother knew he had serious psychological problems, a close family friend told the Daily News.

Nancy Lanza had brought her son to a psychiatrist and pushed him to get out of the house as he became increasingly antisocial, according to a friend of Ms. Lanza. The mother also kept guns in her house routinely unlocked.

**********************************************************************************************

Lives may be being saved today as gun owners now lock up their guns if they realize there are other members of their household who should not have access to these weapons.


Edited by kyle585 (02/18/13 03:01 PM)
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#1387806 --- 02/18/13 02:57 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: SportsRef1]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: SportsRef1
you may wanna read up on Chicago and NYC.....some of the toughest gun laws in the world, and it's the criminals committing the crimes, not law abiding citizens.
Sure it is. But if the cops had the ability to take away a gun from anybody who did not have a card in his wallet saying he was authorized to carry the gun could make a huge difference.
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#1387807 --- 02/18/13 03:00 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: kyle585]
SportsRef1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 3225
Loc: Seneca County

"If your gun is lost or stolen, you can be fined for improperly securing a dangerous weapon. If your gun is used to commit a crime, you can be held responsible along with the person who commits the crime of course."


radical at best....your line of thought would lend credence to the theory that everything that does or could cause harm should be regulated and litigated....you probably are against tort reform also......but as history and stats show, a criminal will get the guns if they want them bad enough.....all the laws will not stop a well driven criminal.

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#1387808 --- 02/18/13 03:02 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: SportsRef1]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: SportsRef1

"If your gun is lost or stolen, you can be fined for improperly securing a dangerous weapon. If your gun is used to commit a crime, you can be held responsible along with the person who commits the crime of course."

radical at best....your line of thought would lend credence to the theory that everything that does or could cause harm should be regulated and litigated....you probably are against tort reform also......but as history and stats show, a criminal will get the guns if they want them bad enough.....all the laws will not stop a well driven criminal.
If your dog bites somebody and you are not there, are you liable? It is the same thing.
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#1387809 --- 02/18/13 03:04 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: SportsRef1]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: SportsRef1
a criminal will get the guns if they want them bad enough.....all the laws will not stop a well driven criminal.
Why do we have laws against cocaine, heroin, prostitution, etc? If the criminal wants it bad enough, they will get it. This is true of almost all laws if you think about it.
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#1387811 --- 02/18/13 03:10 PM Re: My thoughts on gun control [Re: kyle585]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: SportsRef1
you may wanna read up on Chicago and NYC.....some of the toughest gun laws in the world, and it's the criminals committing the crimes, not law abiding citizens.
Sure it is. But if the cops had the ability to take away a gun from anybody who did not have a card in his wallet saying he was authorized to carry the gun could make a huge difference.


They can, and yet Chicago and NYC have extremly high crime rates.
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