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#1385948 --- 02/03/13 04:58 PM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: WilllOWisp]
SilverRose Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 1998
Loc: Heart of the Lakes
" Medical care providers, who will be paid as a team rather than each provider getting a separate payment, will have latitude to design and develop how they deliver the care to improve outcomes."

Oh, yeah. I can see this working. The doctor who has spent 12 years preparing to practice medicine, will LOVE splitting the fee with the nurse's aide, who, while dedicated, probably only has a year or two of education.

Yup, yup, yup. Or the specialist surgeon, splitting his/her fee with the referring doctor who may not even be the primary care physician.

I see a doctor who doesn't do hospitals (go figure), so he will now have to split his fee with the hospitalist and vice versa? And will they add in the nursing staff and physician's assistant, anesthesiologist, lab technicians, etc.

This will be so much simpler. LOL
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#1385956 --- 02/03/13 05:56 PM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: WilllOWisp]
Ghosts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 3803
Loc: Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: WilllOWisp
cqjga, you also are an excellent poster. I get tired of posting links to the truth for uninformed posters, but you guys are on a roll!I wish I was following you, Ghost, Kyle585 and sportsref on FB.


lol! My FB is pretty subdued.


Edited by Ghosts (02/03/13 07:10 PM)
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#1385965 --- 02/03/13 07:36 PM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: Ghosts]
I did it! Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1960
Loc: West Coast 29 Palms
make the Pres and all other politicains pay their own health care instead of us tax payers. I see nothing in this country that's equal for all not one friggin thing.
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#1386696 --- 02/10/13 09:21 AM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: I did it!]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
The problem with Obamacare

A must watch video
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#1386701 --- 02/10/13 10:16 AM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: cwjga]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
"must watch" only in the sense that it brings out some ludicrous reasoning why someone shouldn't have health insurance. In the video, Obama is somehow "holding a gun" to someone's head to force them to share a sandwich with a companion. How is that in any way comparable to an individual mandate for everyone to have health insurance, or to use the video's example, providing for their own sandwich in case they got hungry?

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#1386765 --- 02/10/13 05:25 PM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: cwjga]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: cwjga
The problem with Obamacare
A must watch video


Amazingly simple. I truly feel sorry for those that don't understand it. I guess we know which posters are in the wagon.
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#1386767 --- 02/10/13 05:28 PM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
In the video, Obama is somehow "holding a gun" to someone's head to force them to share a sandwich with a companion. How is that in any way comparable to an individual mandate for everyone to have health insurance

I wonder if you don't get insurance if people with guns will show up
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#1386788 --- 02/10/13 10:15 PM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: sands]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: cwjga
The problem with Obamacare
A must watch video


Amazingly simple. I truly feel sorry for those that don't understand it. I guess we know which posters are in the wagon.

Yes, amazingly simple.... simple things for simple minds

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#1386790 --- 02/10/13 10:17 PM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: sands]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
In the video, Obama is somehow "holding a gun" to someone's head to force them to share a sandwich with a companion. How is that in any way comparable to an individual mandate for everyone to have health insurance

I wonder if you don't get insurance if people with guns will show up

Simple minds wonder about the most amazing things....

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#1386808 --- 02/11/13 06:56 AM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: sands]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: cwjga
The problem with Obamacare
A must watch video


Amazingly simple. I truly feel sorry for those that don't understand it. I guess we know which posters are in the wagon.




It is very simple.

The "affordable care act" does not make health care more affordable. It just makes other people pay for your insurance, and there is nothing mral about it, because it is done at the end of a gun.

Hope everyone gets the metaphor this time and does not take it literally.
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#1386818 --- 02/11/13 08:36 AM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: cwjga]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Please explain why you believe you are being forced to pay for some other person's health insurance. The act requires you to provide insurance for yourself, but I haven't seen the part where you will be required to buy insurance for someone else.

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#1386821 --- 02/11/13 08:56 AM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
TurdyPointer Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 105
Loc: Oswego
Here ya go:

(You didn't think Obamacare was free, did you?)

Here are some of the new taxes you're going to have to pay to pay for Obamacare:

A 3.8% surtax on "investment income" when your adjusted gross income is more than $200,000 ($250,000 for joint-filers). What is "investment income?" Dividends, interest, rent, capital gains, annuities, house sales, partnerships, etc. Taxes on dividends will rise from 15% to 18.8%--if Congress extends the Bush tax cuts. If Congress does not extend the Bush tax cuts, taxes on dividends will rise from 15% to a shocking 43.8%. (WSJ)
A 0.9% surtax on Medicare taxes for those making $200,000 or more ($250,000 joint). You already pay Medicare tax of 1.45%, and your employer pays another 1.45% for you (unless you're self-employed, in which case you pay the whole 2.9% yourself). Next year, your Medicare bill will be 2.35%. (WSJ)
Flexible Spending Account contributions will be capped at $2,500. Currently, there is no tax-related limit on how much you can set aside pre-tax to pay for medical expenses. Next year, there will be. If you have been socking away, say, $10,000 in your FSA to pay medical bills, you'll have to cut that to $2,500. (ATR.org)
The itemized-deduction hurdle for medical expenses is going up to $10,000. Right now, any medical expenses over $7,500 per year are deductible. Next year, that hurdle will be $10,000. (ATR.org)
The penalty on non-medical withdrawals from Healthcare Savings Accounts is now 20% instead of 10%. That's twice the penalty that applies to annuities, IRAs, and other tax-free vehicles. (ATR.org)
A tax of 10% on indoor tanning services. This has been in place for two years, since the summer of 2010. (ATR.org)
A 40% tax on "Cadillac Health Care Plans" starting in 2018.Those whose employers pay for all or most of comprehensive healthcare plans (costing $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for families) will have to pay a 40% tax on the amount their employer pays. The 2018 start date is said to have been a gift to unions, which often have comprehensive plans. (ATR.org)
A"Medicine Cabinet Tax" that eliminates the ability to pay for over-the-counter medicines from a pre-tax Flexible Spending Account. This started in January 2011. (ATR.org)
A "penalty" tax for those who don't buy health insurance. This will phase in from 2014-2016. It will range from $695 per person to about $4,700 per person, depending on your income. (More details here.)
A tax on medical devices costing more than $100. Starting in 2013, medical device manufacturers will have to pay a 2.3% excise tax on medical equipment. This is expected to raise the cost of medical procedures. (Breitbart.com)

So those are some of the new taxes you'll be paying that will help pay for Obamacare.

Any big ones I've missed?

Note that these taxes are both "progressive" (aimed at rich people) and "regressive" (aimed at the middle class and poor people). The big ones--the 3.8% investment income hike and the Medicare tax increase--only hit you if you're making more than $200,000 a year. The rest hit you no matter how much you're making.

Here's How Much The Obamacare Penalty Tax Will Cost You

Many Americans are furious that Obamacare will require them to buy health insurance.

Most of these folks seem to hate the idea that Obama is forcing them to do something more than they hate the idea of shelling out money.

But for those who also care about the money, here are the details.

The good news is that, for most people, the "penalty tax" for those who choose not to buy health insurance will cost a lot less than health insurance.

As with everything tax-related, there's no simple answer to "How much is the Obamacare penalty tax?" But here are some key points, from FactCheck.org:

The penalty/tax will be phased in from 2014 to 2016.
The minimum penalty/tax in 2016 will be $695 per person and up to 3-times that per family. After 2016, these amounts will increase at the rate of inflation.
The minimum penalty/tax per person will start at $95 in 2014 (and then increase through 2016)
No family will ever pay more than 3X the per-person penalty, regardless of how many people are in the family.
The $695 per-person penalty is only for those who make between $9,500 and ~$37,000 per year. If you make less than ~$9.500, you're exempt. If you make more than ~$37,000, your penalty is calculated by the following formula...
The penalty is 2.5% of any household income above the level at which you are required to file a tax return. That level is currently $9,500 per person and $19,000 per couple. The penalty on any income above that is 2.5%. So the penalty can get expensive quickly if you make a lot of money.
However, the penalty can never be more than the cost of a "Bronze" heath insurance plan purchased through one of the state "exchanges" that will be created as part of Obamacare. The CBO estimates that these policies will cost $4,500-$5,000 per person and $12,000-$12,500 per family in 2016, with the costs rising thereafter.

So, basically, you're looking at penalties of approximately the following at the following income levels:

Less than $9,500 income = $0
$9,500 - $37,000 income = $695
$50,000 income = $1,000
$75,000 income = $1,600
$100,000 income = $2,250
$125,000 income = $2,900
$150,000 income = $3,500
$175,000 income = $4,100
$200,000 income = $4,700
Over $200,000 = The cost of a "bronze" health-insurance plan

The IRS will collect the penalty-tax, a fact that will no doubt further enrage those who hate Obamacare.

But here's some more good news for those folks:

The IRS will not have the power to charge you criminally or seize your assets if you refuse to pay. The IRS will only have the ability to sue you. And the most the IRS can collect from you if it wins the suit is 2X the amount you owe. So if you want to thumb your nose at the penalty-tax, the IRS won't be able to do as much to you as they could if you refused to pay, say, income tax.

By the way, the following folks will be exempt from the penalty-tax:

Those who make less than $9,500
Employees whose employers only offer plans that cost more than 8% of the employee's income
Those with "hardships"
Members of Indian tribes
Members of certain religions that don't pay Social Security tax, such as Amish, Hutterites or Mennonites

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#1386823 --- 02/11/13 09:37 AM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: TurdyPointer]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
LK thought the government was going to pay for everyones health insurance. \:D
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#1386829 --- 02/11/13 10:40 AM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: cwjga]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: cwjga
The "affordable care act" does not make health care more affordable. It just makes other people pay for your insurance,
Any type of insurance (home, auto, etc) spreads the cost over all the insured members. And it works that way for Social Security and Medicare too.That is the concept of insurance. ;\)
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#1386831 --- 02/11/13 11:03 AM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14345
Loc: CNY

It's astounding how that simple fact escapes the allegedly intelligent.
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#1386832 --- 02/11/13 11:24 AM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: cwjga]
Lucinda Knotts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 4459
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
LK thought the government was going to pay for everyones health insurance. \:D

Where in the world did you ever get that crazy idea? I never said the government would pay for my insurance -- on the contrary, I pointed out that the premiums I pay for my insurance costs far less than what was being thrown about. You seem to project your ideas onto other people and use those delusions to disagree with. What this all boils down to is folks like you who object to the way money is spent by the Federal government -- in this case using various taxes to increase the number of people who have health insurance. Yes, those who refuse to get health insurance will be paying a penalty. Tough! I object to my tax dollars being spent on any number of things, from road repairs in Alaska to the bullets being wasted in Afghanistan, etc. However, while I may disagree with any number of policies, I respect the laws that have been passed, including Obamacare. You can whine and poke fun all you want, but it's still the law. \:D

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#1386841 --- 02/11/13 12:30 PM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Lucinda Knotts
Please explain why you believe you are being forced to pay for some other person's health insurance. The act requires you to provide insurance for yourself, but I haven't seen the part where you will be required to buy insurance for someone else.


Look in the mirror?

TurdyPointer does an execellent job of showing how I am now paying for others insurance.


Edited by cwjga (02/11/13 12:31 PM)
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#1386843 --- 02/11/13 12:35 PM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: kyle585]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 11266
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: cwjga
The "affordable care act" does not make health care more affordable. It just makes other people pay for your insurance,
Any type of insurance (home, auto, etc) spreads the cost over all the insured members. And it works that way for Social Security and Medicare too.That is the concept of insurance. ;\)


If this was doing that it would make sense that my insurance premium would go down, That however, does not mean that health care is becoming more affordable.

my premium is going up twice as fast under Obamacare as it did prior to Obamacare, it does not seem to be working very well.

Of course when I now have to pay for pirth control that I don't need, I guess the cost would go up.
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#1386848 --- 02/11/13 12:51 PM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: cwjga]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: cwjga
The "affordable care act" does not make health care more affordable. It just makes other people pay for your insurance,
Any type of insurance (home, auto, etc) spreads the cost over all the insured members. And it works that way for Social Security and Medicare too.That is the concept of insurance. ;\)
If this was doing that it would make sense that my insurance premium would go down, That however, does not mean that health care is becoming more affordable.

my premium is going up twice as fast under Obamacare as it did prior to Obamacare, it does not seem to be working very well.
Are you under Obamacare now? The exchanges don't start until October.

By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, The Associated Press

Buying your own health insurance will never be the same

When you pick a plan, you'll no longer have to worry about getting turned down or charged more because of a medical problem. If you're a woman, you can't be charged a higher premium because of gender. Middle-aged people and those nearing retirement will get a price break: They can't be charged more than three times what younger customers pay, compared with six times or seven times today for most private plans.

The Affordable Care Act is the biggest thing that's happened to health care since Medicare and Medicaid in the 1960s. But with open enrollment for exchange plans less than 10 months away, there's a dearth of consumer information. It's as if the consumer angle got drowned out by the political world's dispute over "Obamacare," the dismissive label coined by Republican foes.
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#1386862 --- 02/11/13 02:38 PM Re: Obama care....Really [Re: cwjga]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Of course when I now have to pay for pirth control that I don't need, I guess the cost would go up.
If you pay for birth control for others, you are saving yourself and all Americans a ton of money.

http://todayhealth.today.com/_news/2013/02/11/16900634-teen-births-plummet-to-record-low?lite

Teenage birth rates fell 8 percent in a single year, from 2010 to 2011, the newest data shows. They’ve now plunged 25 percent since 2007 and they are down 49 percent since 1991, the federal government says.

Births to teen mothers are now at a record low in the United States, the National Center for Health Statistics reports in Monday’s issue of the journal Pediatrics. The new rate: 31.3 births per 1,000 girls and women aged 15 to 19.

“There is lots of good news in the report,” said Brady Hamilton, a statistician at the NCHS who led the study.

It's good news because such births are almost always unplanned and the parents are rarely ready to cope with the responsibility of raising a baby. Teenaged moms are also more likely to have babies of a smaller-than-healthy weight or to have stillborn babies.

The study looks at numbers alone and doesn't address changes in teen behavior. But other research suggests that teens are more easily able to get birth control, says Laura Lindberg, a senior researcher at the Guttmacher Institute.
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