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#1376251 - 12/06/12 10:41 PM http://seethroughny.net/
cheesehead Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 14
Loc: PY, Yates County, NY
This is a neat site. It is amazing to see what employees make. It also has pension information. It is easy to find village, school, town, and county information. I enjoy seeing it. I will report my finding.
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#1376303 - 12/07/12 01:14 PM Re: http://seethroughny.net/ [Re: cheesehead]
cheesehead Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 14
Loc: PY, Yates County, NY
I looked at payroll, 2012, counties, yates. The are a lot of familiar county employees listed. I an exited to try to figure out what th budget has for a salary and what they actually make...for the hourly employees. It seems many work many hours above and beyond. I wonder if they work because they want to help or because they need the money. I am not sure how this information is gathered, but it seems pretty extensive.

I looked at payrolls, 2012, villages, penn yan. Enlightening. They are some hard working folks there too.

I am going to look at pensions too. Amazing.

Mean Gene, you seem to be a well respected authority on local government issues. Have you seen this stuff? Any thoughts? I never new this was here for everyone to look at. This is some great information.
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#1376305 - 12/07/12 01:24 PM Re: http://seethroughny.net/ [Re: cheesehead]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2345
Loc: Yates County
Well I don't know if I am "well respected", I speak regarding area law enforcement based on my 35+ years experience in it.

Yes I have heard of the site, never went browsing around on it. Someone posted my yearly gross state retirement payments last year from it. NY does pretty good with its Freedom of Information, not as well as Florida. If you send an E-mail to anyone in a governement capacity down here it automatically become public info that is easily accessed.
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#1376315 - 12/07/12 02:07 PM Re: http://seethroughny.net/ [Re: Mean Gene]
cheesehead Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 14
Loc: PY, Yates County, NY
I appreciate your humility, but people hang on your every word on this forum. You are unique because 35 years of rubbing shoulders with these local officials is nothing to sneeze at. You know the inner workings, receive a pension from it and now can make recommendations and identify short coming from Florida or the lake up here.

If you could be in charge of the county or the sheriff's office where would you look first? You seem to like vehicles and staffing. I wonder where the balance is between vehicles versus maintenance and staffing versus overtime. I am sure between your experience as chief and your brother's experience with the county, you guys have a lot of answers.
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#1376317 - 12/07/12 02:24 PM Re: http://seethroughny.net/ [Re: cheesehead]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2345
Loc: Yates County
I have raised alot of questions that deserve looking at. The YCSO operated without any disasters or problems for many years with less staffing in many areas. I watched the chain of command being expanded, 911 staffing being expanded. office staff being added and road patrol being added along with the take home cars.

During that same 30+ years I worked at the PYPD we operated efficently and continued to patrol and cover the Village with the same amount of full time staffing over those 30 years. At some points we had less full time officers than we did years ago, we supplemented with overtime and part timers for coverage.

I choose to speak up after reading repeated quotes that unfunded mandates are causing the county to have such large shortfalls. I am sure that is part of the problem. The County bears the responsibility of adding all these positions over the years that are not mandated. They are not acknowledging the fact that they have caused a big part of this problem by adding positions over the years that were "wants" and not "needs". A hiring freeze is in order.
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#1376336 - 12/07/12 04:11 PM Re: http://seethroughny.net/ [Re: Mean Gene]
cheesehead Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 14
Loc: PY, Yates County, NY
So the chain of command expansion by one is your big issue? How much money does take home cars cost versus yard cars? Do you have any insight on that? Would you have a take home car if you were in charge? Has staffing increased that much? Where has that increased in your experience? On the road patrol? In dispatch? Technology has changed. When you first started in your career pagers were not even around, or answering machines for that matter. Things change, times change there is cost involved in updating these systems. There is more training involved in these systems. It is more than just picking up a telephone. I think there is more liability involved nowadays too. Training cost money. Where has the village been able to save money? Your tax dollars are not to the village, so there is no insight into that system from you? I respect your opinions. I pay taxes to the county, the town and to the village. Percentage aside, how much is it really a year increase for you or me? A hundred bucks? I am willing to pay it. I do not call much, but when i do i want want someone to answer the phone and i want help to come.
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#1376341 - 12/07/12 05:02 PM Re: http://seethroughny.net/ [Re: cheesehead]
py.eternal.cynic Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/12
Posts: 131
Loc: inside looking out
Very well thought out questions and replies. What has changed in The last 35 years? Much easier to ask what has not changed. Is a 35 year old car the same as a new car....how about computers..guns..phones..what about the courthouse..get more troopers to replace deputies. Anyone look at the salaries to compare. I believe I used to see a pypd unmarked car parked in Indian pines a lot..solving crimes for the county? Why leave a progressive improving department to work for another for so long? Dale is a good man whose men would follow him.

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#1376345 - 12/07/12 05:16 PM Re: http://seethroughny.net/ [Re: cheesehead]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2345
Loc: Yates County
Originally Posted By: cheesehead
So the chain of command expansion by one is your big issue? How much money does take home cars cost versus yard cars? Do you have any insight on that? Would you have a take home car if you were in charge? Has staffing increased that much? Where has that increased in your experience? On the road patrol? In dispatch? Technology has changed. When you first started in your career pagers were not even around, or answering machines for that matter. Things change, times change there is cost involved in updating these systems. There is more training involved in these systems. It is more than just picking up a telephone. I think there is more liability involved nowadays too. Training cost money. Where has the village been able to save money? Your tax dollars are not to the village, so there is no insight into that system from you? I respect your opinions. I pay taxes to the county, the town and to the village. Percentage aside, how much is it really a year increase for you or me? A hundred bucks? I am willing to pay it. I do not call much, but when i do i want want someone to answer the phone and i want help to come.



If I was in charge I would and did have a take home car. I believe the Sheriff and the supervisor of CID/Road patrol and the Investigators should have take home cars. They have 24/7/365 road patrol, they don't need all the deputies to drive a car back and forth to their home's. I also don't think the Lt. of the jail, the undersheriff and the Chief Deputy need take home cars. If they need any other extra help they can call them in and they can hop in a yard car. Geographically the County has not expanded in 30 years nor has the population increased that much.

You talk about the changing tech world. The YCSO could cut down on a large amount of incoming calls. Instead of dispatch answering every non-emergency call they could have their non emergency number go to an automated answering system simliar to the following: You have reached the Yates County Sheriff's Dept. If this is an emergency hang up and dial 911. If not and you know your parties extension you can dial it now. If not, dial 1 for administration, 2 for CID, 3 for records, 4 for the jail etc etc. A lot of the larger SO's have been doing this for years.

Staffing has increased alot over the years. Ask the Sheriff to see his YCSO picture of the department when he and Jan Scofield were Investigators. I believe there is one deputy missing from the picture. Compare it to now. (circa 1977)

It absolutley costs more to have 25 take home cars as opposed to about 10 yard cars. You have to equip each car, insure the extra cars. Of course usually there is updated equipment purchased to outfit the new cars. (new light bars, radios, cages) extra miles put on by Deputies driving them back and forth every day.

Yes I do pay tax dollars to the Village and County. I own several parcels in the Village.

I only retired three years ago, The PD managed to stay current with technology. There were portable radios in the office for the ON DUTY officers to take out on patrol. Also a few cell phones for the ON DUTY officers to use. I believe the YCSO had provided a cell phone for each deputy, along with a portable radio for each one and of course a radio in each car. Just an example of excessive spending.

I already talked about the YCSO changing from grey to navy blue uniforms for the deputies, then doing it for corrections. Another spending excess. How when they last upgraded their hand guns they were able to trade in five or six brand new, never taken out of the box semi-auto pistols. Must be they had a little extra money when they bought them to have those left over many years after they were purchased.

The Undersheriff used to be a "working Undersheriff" who was out on the road, they have added additional sergeant positions over the years besides adding the Chief Deputy position back in after removing in in lieu of a LT. position.

The Village has saved money by not increasing staffing. When I started there was a Sgt. & one officer on each shift with one or two extra to cover evening hours, especially weekends. If someone called in sick we often worked one short. Their staffing has not increased, Personnel is where the major savings can be found.

I have rehashed all this stuff before, It appears you are a supporter of the statu quo. It is what it is. I can quote the Chairman of the Legislature in the past when I suggested that they could save some dollars. "We treat the Sheriff different from other department heads because he is an elected official".
Or this quote: "We don't want to do that, Ron will get mad"!


Edited by Mean Gene (12/07/12 05:23 PM)
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#1376348 - 12/07/12 05:34 PM Re: http://seethroughny.net/ [Re: Mean Gene]
sarge1m19 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 9
Loc: yates county ny
Pros and coins aside I would feel terrible if I had to drive by an accident on my way to work or was unable to respond to an emergency immediately because I was not equipped or prepared to handle or help out. Only people who will suffer are the ones that need us. I hope for all our sakes that it would never happen but if it does we know who to blame. We are paying for the sins of the past such as poor planning over the past 20 years, poor presidential choices and tragedies that could not be predicted. I agree with gene. It is what it is. How we deal with it is up to us.

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#1376426 - 12/08/12 10:15 AM Re: http://seethroughny.net/ [Re: sarge1m19]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2345
Loc: Yates County
Sarge, anyone would feel bad. If you were driving to work in your personal vehicle and came upon an accident, you could still make a phone call if no one else has called it in. You could stop and render first aid if possible. You could direct traffic and use your expertise to assist anyone else there while waiting for an ambulance.

You might not have your gun with you, and it would be safer to have a marked car at the scene. Chances of you coming upon an accident on the way to or from work are not great. If your department did not have 24/7/365 coverage, the take home cars would make sense. Have a great day, stay safe!!!
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#1376459 - 12/08/12 12:53 PM Re: http://seethroughny.net/ [Re: cheesehead]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2345
Loc: Yates County
Originally Posted By: cheesehead
So the chain of command expansion by one is your big issue? How much money does take home cars cost versus yard cars? Do you have any insight on that? Would you have a take home car if you were in charge? Has staffing increased that much? Where has that increased in your experience? On the road patrol? In dispatch? Technology has changed. When you first started in your career pagers were not even around, or answering machines for that matter. Things change, times change there is cost involved in updating these systems. There is more training involved in these systems. It is more than just picking up a telephone. I think there is more liability involved nowadays too. Training cost money. Where has the village been able to save money? Your tax dollars are not to the village, so there is no insight into that system from you? I respect your opinions. I pay taxes to the county, the town and to the village. Percentage aside, how much is it really a year increase for you or me? A hundred bucks? I am willing to pay it. I do not call much, but when i do i want want someone to answer the phone and i want help to come.



I didn't address your comments on "training". When I was Chief we took advantage of training beyond the 26 week basic academy that all officers are required to go thru. There are many trainings put on by agencies in the area. Most of them are free of charge or charge a nominal fee. I would watch for upcoming trainings and if the training was appropriate for our needs I would get approval to send one or two officers. They were day trip trainings.

All Officers qualified every year at the range. If my memory serves me correctly I was tracking average training for our department and it was running around 24 hours per year per man.
I had one officer trained as an instructor on "General police topics" so we could do certain training in house. I sent my personal assistant/secretary/dispatcher to a dispatchers school in Ontario county.

My budget was always tight so we had to be innovative to get things done. \:\)
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#1376480 - 12/08/12 04:09 PM Re: http://seethroughny.net/ [Re: Mean Gene]
cheesehead Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 14
Loc: PY, Yates County, NY
Your use of part-timers is interesting, but what about when a small department is "part-timed" our of existence? The cost savings of payroll, medical benefits and pension is a very attractive option to some of these politicians.

I agree that there is fat to be trimmed in the county, towns and villages. I just find it interesting that all the fat to be trimmed in your opinion is in the sheriff's office. I don't hear much from you about other departments in the county. You could probably right a detailed book about the goings on in PY government. I am sure choose not to mention your former employer and the places money can be saved because you have only been retired from them a few years and you are still loyal.

When you target one department in the county's budget and it happens to be the department you used to work for and left for greener pastures or whatever the reason may be, it gives the perception,to me, that you have an axe to grind. That is just my perception. I have been wrong before.
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#1376486 - 12/08/12 04:47 PM Re: http://seethroughny.net/ [Re: cheesehead]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2345
Loc: Yates County
Sorry, no axe to grind, I don't have the background or expertise to comment on the other county departments. As far as a department being "part timed" out of existence, that would be difficult to do. If the union stays on top of it the govt agency is limited to 20 hrs per week per part timer and they have to create positions. Civil service does have some say in how things are done.
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#1376489 - 12/08/12 05:00 PM Re: http://seethroughny.net/ [Re: Mean Gene]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2345
Loc: Yates County
BTW, I was terminated in the 70's along with one employee from each of the county departments. The reason, budget problems, go figure they handled it back then by cutting personnel! I waited about 8 months before being hired off the civil service list at the Pypd.
As far as commenting on cutbacks at the PD, that budget is so bare bones that there is nothing to cut. I had a few thousand in discretionary spending to buy paper and essentials. If I had the phone income from the jail to play with like the YCSO has I would have been very happy.

I left there about 34 years ago, to quote Earl Finger (dispatcher at the time) when I found out I was losing my job. "Boy, it may not seem like it now but this may be the best thing for you in the long run". He was so right!! The PD had a better retirement system and paid more. \:\)


Edited by Mean Gene (12/08/12 05:16 PM)
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#1376500 - 12/08/12 06:35 PM Re: http://seethroughny.net/ [Re: Mean Gene]
py.eternal.cynic Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/12
Posts: 131
Loc: inside looking out
And there it is. Better pay better retirement. Termination due to budget cuts. How did it feel back then when it happened to you. And now you advocate doing it to someone. There must be some things that can be trimmed other than cops on the road. A boat or two? Why is it that when I call the PD about a barking dog on lake st it is the sheriffs department that answers? My friend in Dundee stopped to report an incident near his house, stopped at troopers office picked up phone as no one was there and got the sheriffs office.

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#1376526 - 12/08/12 08:17 PM Re: http://seethroughny.net/ [Re: py.eternal.cynic]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2345
Loc: Yates County
Originally Posted By: py.eternal.cynic
And there it is. Better pay better retirement. Termination due to budget cuts. How did it feel back then when it happened to you. And now you advocate doing it to someone. There must be some things that can be trimmed other than cops on the road. A boat or two? Why is it that when I call the PD about a barking dog on lake st it is the sheriffs department that answers? My friend in Dundee stopped to report an incident near his house, stopped at troopers office picked up phone as no one was there and got the sheriffs office.



If you have read my posts I have not advocated cutting "cops on the road" I have spoke to alot of things that do not include cutting cops on the road. You know that the 911 center dispatches calls for the PD after 4PM. They also handle 911 calls from Dundee. The troopers were out on the road and would be dispatched to your friends if they were close by. At least it is suppose to be a closest car dispatch concept.

To answer your question, no one likes losing their job, I advocate a hiring freeze in all areas. Tough times calls for tough decisions.


Edited by Mean Gene (12/08/12 08:17 PM)
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