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#1371799 --- 11/03/12 12:15 PM Lyons Dissolution Vote
newsman38 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4947
Loc: Fourth Estate
In Lyons, words of advice on dissolution:

LYONS — A Lyons village resident asked the contingent of Seneca Falls officials if they would “undo” dissolution if they could.



The Seneca Falls group was emphatically united.

“No, absolutely not. I wish had it had happened sooner,” said town Supervisor Donald Earle.

Seneca Falls Town Board member Emil Bove agreed.

Former Town Supervisor Peter Same said he’s lived in the former village for 64 of his 68 years.

“Nothing has really changed. It was the right time to do it,” he said.

The Seneca Falls group was invited to Thursday night’s dissolution information meeting at the Lyons Community Center by OneLyons, a group that supports doing away with the 179-year-old Lyons village government.

Lyons village residents will vote on the measure Tuesday.

Lyons, due to a change in state law, will vote Tuesday without a dissolution plan. A plan will be developed only if the vote is to dissolve. Once the plan is finalized, a petition from village residents could force a second vote on whether the plan should be adopted.

Posted: Friday, November 2, 2012 10:31 am

By DAVID L. SHAW dshaw@fltimes.com |


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#1371854 --- 11/03/12 07:28 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: newsman38]
sammy-kid Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 170
Loc: Florida Keys
good luck Lyons. I hope you don't suffer the the controversy that continues in Seneca Falls.

Same, Earle, and Bove are not very well liked in Seneca Falls.
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But For The Grace Of God

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#1371887 --- 11/04/12 02:55 AM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: sammy-kid]
I did it! Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1960
Loc: West Coast 29 Palms
I hope you all do some real research before you vote? Hey can all vote on this issue village and town or is it all one ided as it was in Seneca Falls where only the village residents got to vote. In MHO that was very wrong for all involved.
Oh Well! Doesn't Matter!
_________________________
“The manner in which it is given is worth more than the gift”.

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#1372011 --- 11/05/12 05:29 AM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: I did it!]
Family Man Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 4468
Loc: Seneca Falls
There really isn't that much controversy in Seneca Falls except from a few people. My overall tax bills decreased by $1600 per yer with dissolution. Life continues in much the same way as it did before dissolution.

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#1372066 --- 11/05/12 03:37 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: sammy-kid]
sox fan Offline
Member

Registered: 09/03/12
Posts: 148
Loc: ny, usa
Theres no controversy here. Don't speak for me, speak for yourself. Whatever you decide, dont let a landfil be in the equation, people around here would eat somebody elses garbage, before they would give up their beloved DUMP

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#1372299 --- 11/06/12 08:16 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: sox fan]
RJFDdriver Offline
Member

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 125
Loc: USA
Those living outside of the Village of Lyons watch out! Your taxes are about to go up without you even having a say. Not everyone "wins" with dissolution. Any plan should have a binding agreement to include a town wide vote for certain services to give everyone a say in how the town will be set up and operated.

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#1372347 --- 11/07/12 07:30 AM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: RJFDdriver]
mR. TaToR Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/12
Posts: 101
Loc: yoda
RJFDdriver your taxes went up less than $500 a year, when are you going to stop crying. People in Lyons don't listen to this guy, he and his VERY small group complain about everything.

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#1372499 --- 11/07/12 05:37 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: mR. TaToR]
sc4ram Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 50
Loc: Wayne
$500 is a sum of significance to a poor-boy from the heartland (assuming that is a accurate number) . Its especially significant if you wake up one morning and you find out you are financing a Village that has arguebly been mis-managed and doesnt seem to have any growth plan. (No plan that Ive read about at all except decay) You must be one of those 1 percenters that the President is making his living on bashing every day. If a $500 tax increase is so insignificant, how about pitching in and helping some of the town folks (or bail-out the village) with your vast wealth \:\) Maybe you can draw upon the President's "stash"

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#1372543 --- 11/08/12 07:26 AM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: sc4ram]
mR. TaToR Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/12
Posts: 101
Loc: yoda
I live in the Town and did not support dissolution, but now that I have got my tax bill it's not bad. I'm assuming that you in Lyons already pay a town tax, unlike us in seneca falls in the town we did not pay a town tax. It was zero, thanks to the landfill. My advice to you is to do your own research and not listen to all the lies about your taxes going up 200 percent.

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#1374118 --- 11/21/12 09:55 AM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: mR. TaToR]
sc4ram Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 50
Loc: Wayne


I havent listened to any "lies" because the truth is that nobody knows or can guarantee what the resulting tax burden will be for the town if the Village is dissolved. As somebody once said, "there are known-unknowns and unknown-unknowns", and I suspect that this situation is full of both (ie the Village revealed sometime ago after they allowed Parker Hannifin to leave the Village, apparently without much of a fight, and that Parker had supported ~1/3 of the water utility). It doesnt take a vivid imagination to think there might be more of those type of gems in the manure pile.

Im merely saying that a Town of Lyons tax-payer would be within their rights to be disgruntled about paying $1 more in property taxes (when they live in one of the highest taxed counties in the US) for a Village that was arguebly mis-managed in the first place. Not to mention that a citizen of the Town didnt get a vote on this. Sounds reminiscent of Taxation without Representation.

The Fickle Finger Times has reported the final election results and the Dissolution measure has passed. (if I lived in the Village Id be *itchin about how long it takes to count a couple of hundred ballots). There should be some numbers comming into focus in the comming months.

Since you are a happy volunteer for higher property taxes, I'll ask you to send some of your wealth over to the Town of Lyons, Im sure the town (and its taxpayers) will be happy to see you

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#1374273 --- 11/22/12 10:34 AM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: sc4ram]
Steve Dallas Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 64
Loc: Bloom County
The thing to remember is that only so much is gained by dissolving one entity and transferring the services to another entity. Especially if the jobs cut are just part-time jobs, whose duties get transferred to a person that becomes full-time with benefits.

The only way to significantly reduce cost, is to reduce services. Swapping around who does the services has only a marginal, and temporary, effect on cost.
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Ack!!!

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#1374348 --- 11/23/12 10:03 AM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: Steve Dallas]
sc4ram Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 50
Loc: Wayne
Amen!

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#1374777 --- 11/26/12 08:44 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: Steve Dallas]
The REAL SF HERO Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/12
Posts: 279
Loc: Seneca Falls
Originally Posted By: Steve Dallas
...The only way to significantly reduce cost, is to reduce services....


WRONG WRONG WRONG

Working smarter is the way to reduce expenses.

Lyons now has to examine all operations and decide if they are being down in the most efficient manner with the right manpower.

You will find that the Village Board kept people and "their kingdom" intact to justify their budget and actions. I'd bet - plenty of waste.

If you had ever read any Business Efficency White Papers you'd know that the collective wisdom is to always challenge policy and procedure, I'm willing to bet the Village Hawks never did either.

Oh and by the way all of those anti-dissolution people who say shared services are the way to go - it is a sham. Shared services mean to the Village, my rules, my personel, my priorities. Nominal gain if any is achieved on shared services - I guess not all were fooled as dissolution PASSED in LYONS!

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#1374979 --- 11/28/12 12:08 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: The REAL SF HERO]
sc4ram Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 50
Loc: Wayne
As you imply, the root of the problem here appears to be that the Village was mis-managed in the first place. I state again, a organization must grow or die. The Village isnt growing (perhaps a microcosm of NYS in general where a good University system and infrasturcture havent stemed a brain drain out of the state in the last several decades). Growth in a municipality will mask a lot of incompetence by its leaders. The Village appears to have neither growth agenda or competence. So the default here is to share the expense load with the Town, not a attractive solution from a Townie's perspective IMO.

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#1375068 --- 11/29/12 07:02 AM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: sc4ram]
grinch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 4613
Loc: New York State


A tip for those living outside of the village of Lyons within the town: Get organized and present a show of strength.Demand an equal voice in planning a budget for the entire town and which services are to be retained or expanded. Do not depend on your sitting town board, or those who will be appointed to a committee to prepare a dissolution plan,


Edited by grinch (11/29/12 10:22 AM)

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#1375252 --- 11/30/12 05:39 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: grinch]
Top Dog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 1999
Loc: Lap Dog
Democracy works for VanStean only when he is winning.

Funny how we all scream for smaller government but when we get it we complain. Villages create themselves, and dissolve themselves. That is law.

Good luck. Learn by the mistakes Seneca Falls made. Watch out what "change" you vote in.

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#1375440 --- 12/02/12 03:33 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: Top Dog]
Dr. Sarcassm Esq Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 718
Loc: Seneca Falls
VanSteamless turned his back on the taxpayers, took his blanket and baby bottle and QUIT.

He is a QUITTER. No honor at all to finish out his term and committment.

Says to me he was only in it for himself. Pretty obvious.
_________________________
Setting the hook so often, so easy & so deep, LOL

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#1389163 --- 02/27/13 10:54 AM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: Dr. Sarcassm Esq]
newsman38 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4947
Loc: Fourth Estate
Lyons dissolution committee gets marching orders, advice

LYONS — “It is possible to set aside strong emotional reactions to pursue a rational path.”

The newly formed dissolution committee heard that advice during last night’s special Village Board meeting. The words were pertinent to the setting: Seven dissolution committee members sat patiently in the juror’s box of the court room, listening to the initial introduction of the process set forth by Mayor Corrine Kleisle and consultants from MRB Group.

The issue of dissolution is a controversial one in this Wayne County community. MRB consultant and former village of Seneca Falls Mayor Diana Smith cautioned that personal feelings will cause people to listen less and assume more, an inherently counterproductive approach given the timeline that the committee faces.

After explaining MRB’s role, Smith advised committee members to suspend their beliefs in order to create an optimal plan.
“This is an exceptionally challenging task with an aggressive time table,” Smith reiterated.

She outlined the role of the chairman to be nominated at the first, official dissolution committee meeting and provided a binder of information with a guideline on the phases that will need to be completed during the process.
First meeting

The village of Lyons dissolution committee is scheduled to convene for the first time at 6:30 p.m. March 7 at 76 William St.

Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 10:18 am
By JULIE ANDERSON janderson@fltimes.com

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#1389237 --- 02/27/13 03:26 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: sc4ram]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
Not to mention that a citizen of the Town didnt get a vote on this


I think it was probably like the SF vote, where only some citizens of the town got a chance to vote.
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1389376 --- 02/28/13 12:53 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: VM Smith]
seneca dad22 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 681
Loc: NY
NYS law states when a VILLAGE dissolves ONLY VILLAGE RESIDENTS CAN VOTE.

Why is this concept so hard for some to grasp?

Is this fair is more the question.

Dissolution was the BEST thing SF ever accomplished.

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#1389718 --- 03/02/13 04:41 AM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: seneca dad22]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
NYS law states when a VILLAGE dissolves ONLY VILLAGE RESIDENTS CAN VOTE.


Absolutely true, and it's good that you know that, but irrelevant to my post. I was responding to the claim that a citizen of the town didn't get a vote.

Village residents are residents of the town. Living in the village does not change that fact. Village residents get a vote. Therefore, some residents of the town get a vote.


Edited by VM Smith (03/02/13 04:48 AM)
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1389739 --- 03/02/13 09:44 AM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: VM Smith]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2781
Loc: Yates County
Thats a simple concept that alot of people don't get VM!! Its like the Village of Penn Yan residents are Town of Milo and County Residents. In Florida they have incorporated cities and county government. They seemed to have avoided the third layer of government that came to be in New York!!
_________________________
"Rational arguments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people"

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#1418798 --- 09/25/13 09:29 AM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: Mean Gene]
newsman38 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4947
Loc: Fourth Estate
Tempers flare as Lyons dissolution plan unveiled
By JULIE ANDERSON janderson@fltimes.com | Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 10:10 am
LYONS — How much will village residents save if the municipal government dissolves?
It’s a question that got shoved into the background quickly at last night’s Village Board meeting when village Trustee Richard Evangelista asked how much dissolution would cost town residents.
Town residents made it clear at the end of the meeting they were not happy with the answer.
The Lyons Dissolution Committee, the five Village Board members, MRB Group consultants, note-takers, videographers and 25 residents gathered in the village court room Tuesday night, awaiting the proposed dissolution plan that’s been in the making since March.
After thanking the dissolution committee and MRB Group for their work, village Mayor Corrine Kleisle reminded all in attendance that this was a special session to unveil the plan, not a public hearing — although a few questions would be allowed at the end.
MRB Group representative Diana Smith read aloud the executive summary of the plan, which contained all the information that most residents wanted to know. The proposed plan was based on the recommendations of the appointed dissolution committee.
“These are not mandates on the town, but assumptions were made so that fiscal implications could be calculated,” Smith said. “These are not mandates imposed on the town, but what assumptions were used for cost projections.”

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#1424224 --- 10/29/13 08:55 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: newsman38]
The REAL SF HERO Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/12
Posts: 279
Loc: Seneca Falls
Shared services will never reap a 3 dollar a thousand savings.
People are fools to believe that as any savings would be eaten up by larger government.

Dissolution proves to be the biggest saver of tax dollars to Village (majority) and it is time the Town residents start paying their fair share that they enjoy on the backs of the Village Taxpayer.

VOTE DISSOLUTION!

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#1432667 --- 01/15/14 11:08 AM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: The REAL SF HERO]
newsman38 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4947
Loc: Fourth Estate
Judge holds off on Lyons petition ruling

LYONS — Wayne County Judge John Nesbitt said Tuesday he is “inclined to grant standing” toward OneLyons’ latest Article 78 proceeding.

However, Nesbitt won’t issue a ruling until the pro-dissolution group is allowed a chance to respond to the village of Lyons’ latest rebuttal, which village attorney Art Williams filed Monday. OneLyons will have until 4 p.m. Friday to submit its documentation, a window Nesbitt granted at yesterday morning’s hearing.

OneLyons’ latest Article 78 filing relates to the Save the Village of Lyons petition that forced a second permissive referendum on dissolution. Lyons voters, who approved dissolution in November 2012, are slated to return to the polls March 18 for a second vote on the matter.

OneLyons contested 165 of the 615 signatures submitted Dec. 18, saying they should have been discounted for various reasons. Village Clerk-Treasurer Denise Darcangelis validated the petition Dec. 26, and the Village Board set a date for the referendum last week.

OneLyons representatives and Williams presented oral arguments Tuesday in state Supreme Court.

OneLyons addressed its right to file the Article 78, stating that allowing a fraudulent petition to be pushed through would disenfranchise those who cast votes in November 2012 for dissolving the village. Jack Bailey and Andrew DeWolf also contested that they fall within a “zone of interest” in their ability to file the Article 78, and if the court dismissed the case it would create “impenetrable barriers, denying electors the right to challenge petitions.”

The organization claims the overall petition does not meet the statute, is facilely flawed, and that 165 signatures could be contested based on the Dec. 20 county Board of Elections list of registered village residents.

“The missed areas on the petition are there to protect against fraud,” DeWolf stated.

DeWolf said handwritten notes Darcangelis made verifying the method used for certifying the petition were submitted after the issue was brought to court and that there was no valid proof that the notes were not completed within the past seven days to “go back and cover up” mistakes in the process.

Nesbitt asked if the certification process was clarified, why OneLyons would still consider the validity of the petition an issue.

DeWolf said the statutes and process used to validate the original petition in 2012 and the petition that was submitted for the upcoming referendum weren’t comparable.

When it was his turn, Williams said OneLyons was using municipal law as a “sword and a shield,” and that the outlines for creating the petition were based on direction, not law. He argued that in Cairo v. Harwood, “although this phrase is used on the form provided by statute for petition sheets, its omission has been held not to result in invalidation of the designating petition.” The phrase Williams was referring to was what OneLyons claims invalidates the petition: “in witness whereof, we have signed our names on the dates indicated next to our signatures.”

“Legislatures could not have foreseen that one would unsettle a legal vote using a flawed petition,” DeWolf countered.

Williams stated that Darcangelis invalidated 45 of the 165 contested signatures, noting that the 570 remaining signatures surpassed the 491 needed to force another referendum.
Many of the signatures OneLyons contested contained irregularities such as lacking a person’s suffix, missing apartment numbers and informal names — Tom instead of Thomas, for example.

“We cannot get lost in the forms and irregularities. We need to stick to substance,” Williams said. “There are 570 residents that want to be heard.”

Nesbitt questioned why a resident moving from one side of the street to the other, but not listed as such on the Board of Elections registration list, should be discounted if he or she is still living in the village.

OneLyons said its argument goes beyond that, and that there was a potential bias in certifying the signatures because Darcangelis was a signer on one of the petitions.

Nesbitt said he was inclined to rule for OneLyons but will wait to issue a decision until after the group files its final rebuttal to the village argument.

By JULIE ANDERSON
Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 11:02 am

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#1437390 --- 02/21/14 10:20 AM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: newsman38]
newsman38 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4947
Loc: Fourth Estate

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#1442801 --- 04/01/14 04:26 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: newsman38]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2781
Loc: Yates County
Well I am out of the area, how did the second vote come out?
_________________________
"Rational arguments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people"

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#1442820 --- 04/01/14 06:43 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: Mean Gene]
de1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 2004
Loc: ny
Same as first!

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#1442836 --- 04/01/14 08:20 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: newsman38]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2781
Loc: Yates County
hmmm, have they now come up with the dollars involved, savings for the Village and increased cost for the town? Has there been a news article yet showing projected costs for each and a final plan?

I would think the Police department being changed to a Town PD or being abolished would be the big dollar ticket item.
_________________________
"Rational arguments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people"

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#1442847 --- 04/01/14 09:51 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: Mean Gene]
de1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 2004
Loc: ny
I don't think they have a final plan yet! I think everybody assumed the vote was going to be reversed on the second vote!

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#1442850 --- 04/01/14 09:59 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: de1]
de1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 2004
Loc: ny


Edited by de1 (04/01/14 10:02 PM)

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#1442912 --- 04/02/14 11:56 AM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: de1]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2781
Loc: Yates County
Thanks, I think I read most of that awhile back. I was wondering if there was any further discussion on how they were going to finalize the plan and if the Town will convert the PD to a Town wide PD or abolish it. I know Lyons has a state police station right in Lyons.
_________________________
"Rational arguments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people"

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#1442928 --- 04/02/14 01:07 PM Re: Lyons Dissolution Vote [Re: Mean Gene]
de1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 2004
Loc: ny
I believe they are talking townwide PD!

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