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#1430801 --- 12/30/13 09:24 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: YCite]
Honestly Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 234
Loc: Penn Yan
Originally Posted By: YCite
This thread is humorous. Why does everyone have to be cynical? Both of these projects are great for Penn Yan in the long term. I think any inter-municipal agreement is great when it leads to this kind of investment.
Big question is this, who's paying for it? It better not be the tax payers. If they are truly paying for this project within their tax dollars a problem exists.

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#1430803 --- 12/30/13 09:39 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: Honestly]
YCite Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/13
Posts: 51
Loc: FL
I have no idea what the structure of this is ... but I have a hard time imagining that the conservatives elected to both the County and Village seats would agree to something that would put the community at risk of higher taxes. Ever heard of spending money to make money? These are long-term, high impact projects that could have a significant impact on the future revenue stream for the County and Village. It sounds like it's a win-win for all involved. I guess we'll see, though.

Lots of things happening in the area that at least seem promising on the surface. PY is one of the few remaining "resort communities" that hasn't been tapped into yet. Could lead to a windfall in tourism/sales tax revenue.

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#1430806 --- 12/30/13 09:47 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: Honestly]
YCite Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/13
Posts: 51
Loc: FL
Originally Posted By: Honestly
Originally Posted By: YCite
This thread is humorous. Why does everyone have to be cynical? Both of these projects are great for Penn Yan in the long term. I think any inter-municipal agreement is great when it leads to this kind of investment.
Question again is this, is it good for the tax payers? That's the bottom line.


Also, I'm not sure how PY and YC do these things ... and this might be the first in a long time ... but usually these projects are structured and funded over a period of 20-30 years. So yes, some of it falls on the taxpayers, but when you stretch a $4-5 million project over 20 years the impact is not nearly as significant, especially when the revenues generated by said project end up covering those costs (and thus, not really leading to a tax increase). There are also peripheral benefits to these projects that can multiply their economic and social effects. How much is yet to be seen, but they certainly seem to be somewhat impactful.

Also, I thnk I read somewhere last year that the state was chipping in some grant money for the project. I'm sure that is a big deal as far as funding goes (assuming we are talking about the old boats sight)

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#1430971 --- 12/31/13 04:19 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: Honestly]
leeoh Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 141
Loc: dundee
Originally Posted By: Honestly
Originally Posted By: YCite
This thread is humorous. Why does everyone have to be cynical? Both of these projects are great for Penn Yan in the long term. I think any inter-municipal agreement is great when it leads to this kind of investment.
Big question is this, who's paying for it? It better not be the tax payers. If they are truly paying for this project within their tax dollars a problem exists.
The developer will pay the village $75,000 a year for 4 years and then $25,000 for each townhouse he builds plus pay for the cleanup, if he backs out then the county must pay for the cleanup and the village then can sell the property to some other developer.

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#1431177 --- 01/02/14 03:00 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: leeoh]
helpme Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 239
Loc: dresden
Originally Posted By: leeoh
Originally Posted By: Honestly
Originally Posted By: YCite
This thread is humorous. Why does everyone have to be cynical? Both of these projects are great for Penn Yan in the long term. I think any inter-municipal agreement is great when it leads to this kind of investment.
Big question is this, who's paying for it? It better not be the tax payers. If they are truly paying for this project within their tax dollars a problem exists.
The developer will pay the village $75,000 a year for 4 years and then $25,000 for each townhouse he builds plus pay for the cleanup, if he backs out then the county must pay for the cleanup and the village then can sell the property to some other developer.
The developer will pay the village $75,000 a year for 4 years and $24,000 for each townhouse he builds which will add up to a total of $1,1000,000. The Mayor told the local paper The Chronicle Express that the developer was putting $1,100,000 into the infrastructure which is not true, that sum is what is being paid for the property, The village is spending these payments on infrastructure to benefit the developer along with 10 years of the village's pilot and occupancy taxes plus a $2,000,000 grant\loan that the village taxpayers will pay back in the form of higher electric, water and sewer rates. The cleanup is minor and could of been completed years ago but the county has delayed it for some unknown reason. The village taxpayers were told by the Mayor and the village board that unless the county decided to share sale taxes with the village the village would not take out the $1,000,000 loan and that the Village, Milo, and the County would be responsible for paying back, that also turned out to be a lie that the Mayor has told the taxpayers of Penn Yan.


Edited by helpme (01/02/14 03:10 PM)

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#1431325 --- 01/03/14 10:03 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: helpme]
Honestly Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 234
Loc: Penn Yan
Originally Posted By: helpme
Originally Posted By: leeoh
Originally Posted By: Honestly
Originally Posted By: YCite
This thread is humorous. Why does everyone have to be cynical? Both of these projects are great for Penn Yan in the long term. I think any inter-municipal agreement is great when it leads to this kind of investment.
Big question is this, who's paying for it? It better not be the tax payers. If they are truly paying for this project within their tax dollars a problem exists.
The developer will pay the village $75,000 a year for 4 years and then $25,000 for each townhouse he builds plus pay for the cleanup, if he backs out then the county must pay for the cleanup and the village then can sell the property to some other developer.
The developer will pay the village $75,000 a year for 4 years and $24,000 for each townhouse he builds which will add up to a total of $1,1000,000. The Mayor told the local paper The Chronicle Express that the developer was putting $1,100,000 into the infrastructure which is not true, that sum is what is being paid for the property, The village is spending these payments on infrastructure to benefit the developer along with 10 years of the village's pilot and occupancy taxes plus a $2,000,000 grant\loan that the village taxpayers will pay back in the form of higher electric, water and sewer rates. The cleanup is minor and could of been completed years ago but the county has delayed it for some unknown reason. The village taxpayers were told by the Mayor and the village board that unless the county decided to share sale taxes with the village the village would not take out the $1,000,000 loan and that the Village, Milo, and the County would be responsible for paying back, that also turned out to be a lie that the Mayor has told the taxpayers of Penn Yan.
It would be so great if people would just read the documentaion and Wake up!

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#1431562 --- 01/06/14 08:14 AM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: j3668py]
FLDukes Offline
Member

Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 62
Loc: Finger Lakes
I'm not really sure what the specifics of the project are, outside of what has been posted on here, but from the sounds of it this is being looked at as a long-term investment. The Village and County taxpayers may be "stuck with the bill" on paper, initially, but you've got to look at the taxes generated by these new houses too. Not only will it provide a new housing option ... if these are retirees coming in, or moving from Village homes, it frees up housing down the line for those that need it (there is a shortage). You also need to look at the trickle-down effect. If these houses are going to be connected to the downtown core, you're looking at 30-40 new families/couples who will be spending locally. This also fails to mention the yearly tax income that will surely go up with 30-40 prime real-estate units right on the lake. So yes, while the Village may have to foot the bill initially, the project should be a long-term net positive.

Also, did I read that the State is pitching in funds too? That's $1,000,000 that the Village doesn't have to come up with to improve the infrastructure ... so that incentive may have finally pushed the local munis to act.

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#1431601 --- 01/06/14 12:54 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: Mean Gene]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2781
Loc: Yates County
Originally Posted By: Mean Gene
Without knowing the total dollar amounts I am not in position to be happy or complain about it. If you are talking long term I believe the Village will benefit down the road from that site being developed. Maybe we will be surprised and it will be in the long term best interest of the Village. I will give you an example of not realizing long term benefits.

Many years ago I was ordained to negotiate with the Village in attempting to annex all of Old Pines Trail property that was on the lake into the Village. At the time us residents thought it was the long term solution to replace our ageing water line. Every time there was a break in it we took up a collection and paid someone to fix it.

We did a petition to the Village board. The cost estimate of a new water line at that time was 225K. That was if it was replaced right then, which it didn't need to be. We told the Village it appeared there was a minimum of 35K in property taxes to be realized by the village per year if they annexed all the OPT lake property into the Village.

They shot us down, a Village trustee, who shall remain nameless told me: "the Village isn't going to be stuck with a 225K bill to put a new water line in". They wanted everything from Armstrong glass to Old Pines Trail annexed or they wouldn't consider it. I told him that Ritchie blvd had a new water line and they would not be interested in being in the Village as they wouldn't want another tax.

I told this trustee to do the math, the 35K was per year and it was only going to go up as property values increased. (can you say seven year payback!) He was too short sighted to see the long term benefit to the Village. I thank God that they were short sighted. A couple of years later Old Pines Trail became part of a new water district that was formed. Our problem was solved at a much cheaper annual cost than if we became part of the Village and started paying Village taxes annually.

Things are not always as they seem to be. smile




The above is a history lesson showing a lack of foresight by the Village Board many years ago. I think you are right, long term this should be a good thing for the Village. Life's a gamble, this looks like its one worth taking.


Edited by Mean Gene (01/06/14 12:55 PM)
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"Rational arguments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people"

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#1431651 --- 01/06/14 04:00 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: FLDukes]
leeoh Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 141
Loc: dundee
Originally Posted By: FLDukes
I'm not really sure what the specifics of the project are, outside of what has been posted on here, but from the sounds of it this is being looked at as a long-term investment. The Village and County taxpayers may be "stuck with the bill" on paper, initially, but you've got to look at the taxes generated by these new houses too. Not only will it provide a new housing option ... if these are retirees coming in, or moving from Village homes, it frees up housing down the line for those that need it (there is a shortage). You also need to look at the trickle-down effect. If these houses are going to be connected to the downtown core, you're looking at 30-40 new families/couples who will be spending locally. This also fails to mention the yearly tax income that will surely go up with 30-40 prime real-estate units right on the lake. So yes, while the Village may have to foot the bill initially, the project should be a long-term net positive.

Also, did I read that the State is pitching in funds too? That's $1,000,000 that the Village doesn't have to come up with to improve the infrastructure ... so that incentive may have finally pushed the local munis to act.
Your first sentence tells it all, I'm not really sure what the specifics of the project are and you make very clear that you don't what you're talking about when you claim that 30-40 prime real-estate units will be built right on the lake, they won't be build on the lake they are going to be build on the insect infested outlet next to the marsh. This will only bring higher taxes to the village residents, When is the last time that one of these long term investments lower the taxes, NEVER don't be foolish.

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#1431657 --- 01/06/14 04:32 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: leeoh]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
When is the last time that one of these long term investments lower the taxes, NEVER don't be foolish.


Right...corralling more tax cattle never solves anything; it just encourages government to spend more. The people who favor such schemes are enablers.
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1431998 --- 01/08/14 07:38 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: Mean Gene]
leeoh Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 141
Loc: dundee
Originally Posted By: Mean Gene
"J" I went on line and read the Chronicle article, doesn't look like anyone has sold out-yet. The Mayor made it very clear they were just meeting a filing deadline for the no intrest-low intrest loan. He said it doesn't mean they have to actually apply for it if they are approved to go ahead with it.

I do agree with MC that the time is now to get a commitment from Yates County to share sales tax revenue. There is no way the Village residents should be footing over a one million dollar infrastructure improvement so the PY boats site can be developed. Especially if there is going to be lodging, retail or anything that generates revenue for the County that the Village will not benefit from. Residential property expansion does not help the tax base nearly as much as commercial development.

The County and Village should be bending over backwards to get more commerical development going in Yates County.

As it stands now the County will reap all the benefits and the Village residents will be carrying the load!


Well said MG, but now he has sold out the residents of PY by agreeing to fork over $2,000,000 that the village taxpayers will be stuck paying back for infrastructure improvement to the old boat company so it can be developed and the county didn't have to give-up any sales taxes to the village.


Edited by leeoh (01/08/14 07:53 PM)

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#1432004 --- 01/08/14 07:52 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: helpme]
Honestly Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 234
Loc: Penn Yan
Read the fine print within the numerous resolutions people.

Why are there numerous resolutions affecting the same project people??

PY is most certainly in concert with Yates County with respect to this project.

Some one tell us why Ivertson is not purchasing the Boat property from the village for his development rather than the Village of Penn Yan purchasing it from the county for $1.00?

It's not rocket science it's political pay off and the Village of Penn Yan tax payers are, in the long run are going to be stuck with the bill throiugh their water, sewer and electric bills.

Think not, read the fine print!!

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#1432005 --- 01/08/14 07:55 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: Honestly]
Honestly Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 234
Loc: Penn Yan
Originally Posted By: Honestly
Read the fine print within the numerous resolutions people.

Why are there numerous resolutions affecting the same project people??

PY is most certainly in concert with Yates County with respect to this project.

Some one tell us why Ivertson is not purchasing the Boat property from the village for his development rather than the Village of Penn Yan purchasing it from the county for $1.00?

It's not rocket science it's political pay off and the Village of Penn Yan tax payers are, in the long run are going to be stuck with the bill throiugh their water, sewer and electric bills.

Think not, read the fine print!!
When the Village presents the resolution to purchase that property for $1.00 (which is still contaminated) they better have a "Public Hearing" which will be subject to a "Permissive Hearing", which is State Law.

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#1432014 --- 01/08/14 09:24 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: Honestly]
Honestly Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 234
Loc: Penn Yan
Originally Posted By: Honestly
Originally Posted By: Honestly
Read the fine print within the numerous resolutions people.

Why are there numerous resolutions affecting the same project people??

PY is most certainly in concert with Yates County with respect to this project.

Some one tell us why Ivertson is not purchasing the Boat property from the village for his development rather than the Village of Penn Yan purchasing it from the county for $1.00?

It's not rocket science it's political pay off and the Village of Penn Yan tax payers are, in the long run are going to be stuck with the bill throiugh their water, sewer and electric bills.

Think not, read the fine print!!
When the Village presents the resolution to purchase that property for $1.00 (which is still contaminated) they better have a "Public Hearing" which will be subject to a "Permissive Hearing", which is State Law.
Hey, we, I could be wrong but it's worth looking into isn't it? Why should the taxpayers in the Village of PY be paying for Iverson's build-up through their electric, sewer and water bills? Think you won't, read the fine print of what is being presented!

Yup, your current and soon to be old board of trustees is about to sell you out because they haven't read the fine print and made a stand for your tax dollars.

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#1432017 --- 01/08/14 10:12 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: Honestly]
de1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 2004
Loc: ny
Iverson isn't stupid. He is a master at using grants,low interest loans and whatever else he can come up with to finance his projects saving his own money. He wore out his welcome in Geneva when he stuck the city taxpayers with the loan he refused to pay back for his South Main Street project declaring bankruptcy on the project. Birkett's landing is another example of his use of taxpayer money.


Edited by de1 (01/08/14 10:14 PM)

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#1432082 --- 01/09/14 09:57 AM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: j3668py]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2781
Loc: Yates County
Its my understanding that half of that 2 million is a grant, so the Village will have to pay back 1 million. I don't have enough information to compare the math on how the repayment of the one million is structured. Can I guess that the payments the Village will receive will cover the repayment costs of the loan?

I do agree that our electric rates will continue to go up. Our water & sewer costs should be offset by the Village charging the non-village residents a reasonable fee for the water they are selling them.

The bottom line, if Penn Yan wants to grow and expand its tax base they have to spend the money to upgrade the sewage treatment plant (already in the works) and the infrastructure in areas being developed.
_________________________
"Rational arguments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people"

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#1432096 --- 01/09/14 12:18 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: Mean Gene]
yipes Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 50
Loc: NY
how about this MG to your bottom line regarding PY expanding its tax base with minimal cost upfront: Annex all the properties in & around Indian Pines Park into the village that are using the municipal electric & not paying village tax.

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#1432102 --- 01/09/14 03:14 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: yipes]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2781
Loc: Yates County
Originally Posted By: yipes
how about this MG to your bottom line regarding PY expanding its tax base with minimal cost upfront: Annex all the properties in & around Indian Pines Park into the village that are using the municipal electric & not paying village tax.



Municipal electric goes out the lower west lake road to around the colonial. I don't know how or why that happened many years ago. We tried to annex Old Pines trail into the Village 20+ years ago but were shot down by short sighted thinking by the VB. We now belong to the keuka park water district and pay a premium for water/sewer service from the Village.
_________________________
"Rational arguments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people"

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#1432107 --- 01/09/14 04:00 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: Mean Gene]
leeoh Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 141
Loc: dundee
Originally Posted By: Mean Gene
"J" I went on line and read the Chronicle article, doesn't look like anyone has sold out-yet. The Mayor made it very clear they were just meeting a filing deadline for the no intrest-low intrest loan. He said it doesn't mean they have to actually apply for it if they are approved to go ahead with it.

I do agree with MC that the time is now to get a commitment from Yates County to share sales tax revenue. There is no way the Village residents should be footing over a one million dollar infrastructure improvement so the PY boats site can be developed. Especially if there is going to be lodging, retail or anything that generates revenue for the County that the Village will not benefit from. Residential property expansion does not help the tax base nearly as much as commercial development.

The County and Village should be bending over backwards to get more commerical development going in Yates County.

As it stands now the County will reap all the benefits and the Village residents will be carrying the load!


MG have you changed your mind?

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#1432111 --- 01/09/14 06:16 PM Re: Mayor sells out? [Re: leeoh]
Mean Gene Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 2781
Loc: Yates County
I have not changed my mind about "the village and county needing to bend over backwards to get more commercial development going"
I am not na´ve enough to presume I have enough info to decide if there are enough dollars coming back to the Village to make this worthwhile.

I would hope that the officials that were elected have crunched the numbers and figured out that the money coming back to the village via the county along with the 1 million dollar grant money doesn't put an undue burden on the Village taxpayers. There is a lot to be said about the old saying you have to spend money to make money. smile
_________________________
"Rational arguments based upon ample evidence will not change the minds of irrational people"

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