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#1352432 - 07/09/12 03:27 PM America Has Too Many Teachers
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Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7644
Ahahahahahahahaha... twocats, what's up with this?


Teacher Mark Berndt is accused of taking lewd photos of children.


Martin Bernard Springer is accused of fondling two students in the classroom.

America Has Too Many Teachers
Public-school employees have doubled in 40 years while student enrollment has increased by only 8.5%—and academic results have stagnated.




By ANDREW J. COULSON

President Obama said last month that America can educate its way to prosperity if Congress sends money to states to prevent public school layoffs and "rehire even more teachers." Mitt Romney was having none of it, invoking "the message of Wisconsin" and arguing that the solution to our economic woes is to cut the size of government and shift resources to the private sector. Mr. Romney later stated that he wasn't calling for a reduction in the teacher force—but perhaps there would be some wisdom in doing just that.

Cato Institute scholar Andrew Coulson on how public school employment has soared over the past 40 years even as student enrollment has flat-lined.

Since 1970, the public school workforce has roughly doubled—to 6.4 million from 3.3 million—and two-thirds of those new hires are teachers or teachers' aides. Over the same period, enrollment rose by a tepid 8.5%. Employment has thus grown 11 times faster than enrollment. If we returned to the student-to-staff ratio of 1970, American taxpayers would save about $210 billion annually in personnel costs.

Or would they? Stanford economist Eric Hanushek has shown that better-educated students contribute substantially to economic growth. If U.S. students could catch up to the mathematics performance of their Canadian counterparts, he has found, it would add roughly $70 trillion to the U.S. economy over the next 80 years. So if the additional three million public-school employees we've hired have helped students learn, the nation may be better off economically.

To find out if that's true, we can look at the "long-term trends" of 17-year-olds on the federal National Assessment of Educational Progress. These tests, first administered four decades ago, show stagnation in reading and math and a decline in science. Scores for black and Hispanic students have improved somewhat, but the scores of white students (still the majority) are flat overall, and large demographic gaps persist. Graduation rates have also stagnated or fallen. So a doubling in staff size and more than a doubling in cost have done little to improve academic outcomes.

Nor can the explosive growth in public-school hiring be attributed to federal spending on special education. According to the latest Census Bureau data, special ed teachers make up barely 5% of the K-12 work force.

The implication of these facts is clear: America's public schools have warehoused three million people in jobs that do little to improve student achievement—people who would be working productively in the private sector if that extra $210 billion were not taxed out of the economy each year.

We have already tried President Obama's education solution over a time period and on a scale that he could not hope to replicate today. And it has proven an expensive and tragic failure.

To avoid Greece's fate we must create new, productive private-sector jobs to replace our unproductive government ones. Even as a tiny, mostly nonprofit niche, American private education is substantially more efficient than its public sector, producing higher graduation rates and similar or better student achievement at roughly a third lower cost than public schools (even after controlling for differences in student and family characteristics).



St. Joseph's Catholic School in Kennewick, Wash.

By making it easier for families to access independent schools, we can do what the president's policies cannot: drive prosperity through educational improvement. More than 20 private-school choice programs already exist around the nation. Last month, New Hampshire legislators voted to override their governor's veto and enact tax credits for businesses that donate to K-12 scholarship organizations. Mr. Romney has supported such state programs. President Obama opposes them.

While America may have too many teachers, the greater problem is that our state schools have squandered their talents on a mass scale. The good news is that a solution is taking root in many states.

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#1352446 - 07/09/12 04:25 PM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: ]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
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Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
ahahahahahahahaha.... hey Harley, what's up with this?

Two Camp Lejeune Marines face accusations of rape in what one official called the worst rape and sodomy case they had ever seen.



Sgt. Patrick Kaiser ______________________ Cpl. Mack Krout


Too Many Marines?

Marines Charged With Rape, Sodomy

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#1352453 - 07/09/12 05:07 PM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
Josephus Offline
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Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 10773
Loc: NYS
You knew that one had to be coming, right Harley? There are a few bad apples in every sort of bunch.
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#1352457 - 07/09/12 05:23 PM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: Josephus]
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Originally Posted By: Josephus
You knew that one had to be coming, right Harley? There are a few bad apples in every sort of bunch.
If and when they are found guilty, I hope they get what's coming to them.

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#1352466 - 07/09/12 05:53 PM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: ]
twocats Offline
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Registered: 02/09/10
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Ha! Love the double standard! "If and when they are found guilty.." must only apply to soldiers.
(rolling my eyes)
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#1352489 - 07/09/12 10:22 PM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: twocats]
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Originally Posted By: twocats
Ha! Love the double standard! "If and when they are found guilty.." must only apply to soldiers.
(rolling my eyes)

You should love my double standards, its taken a lifetime to perfect!

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#1352511 - 07/10/12 07:40 AM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: ]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 28868
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus

America Has Too Many Teachers
Public-school employees have doubled in 40 years while student enrollment has increased by only 8.5%—and academic results have stagnated.



reduce the amount of teachers by half
cut their pay
make them pay into their healthcare
convert their pension into a 401k
make them work 12 months with the same pay
add 2 more hours to the school day with the same pay
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#1352517 - 07/10/12 08:05 AM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers *DELETED* [Re: bluezone]
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A good 8 hour a day job would do the teachers good, long with the students.


Edited by Chicago Jesus (07/10/12 08:14 AM)

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#1352519 - 07/10/12 08:10 AM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: ]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 28868
Loc: USA
they are on their 2 month long paid summer 'vacation'
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#1352536 - 07/10/12 10:12 AM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers *DELETED* [Re: ]
twocats Offline
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Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11865
Loc: NYS
In my school, many students attend form 8-4:30 on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and from 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. on Tuesday and Thursday. They're in summer school now until August 19.
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#1352540 - 07/10/12 11:06 AM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers *DELETED* [Re: twocats]
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Originally Posted By: twocats
In my school, many students attend form 8-4:30 on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and from 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. on Tuesday and Thursday. They're in summer school now until August 19.

They just show-up then?

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#1352546 - 07/10/12 11:57 AM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: twocats]
MeRightYouWrong Offline
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Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1597
Loc: Mountain of Truth
Originally Posted By: twocats
In my school, many students attend form 8-4:30 on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and from 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. on Tuesday and Thursday. They're in summer school now until August 19.


That is a lot of hours for students to be in school. Yet, they weren't able to learn enough and therefore must attend Summer School?

The money spent per student does not generate success in academia.
The time students spend in school does not generate success in academia.
Therefore, it must be the methods of teaching that are failing.

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#1352548 - 07/10/12 12:04 PM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: MeRightYouWrong]
Josephus Offline
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Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 10773
Loc: NYS
...or parents who don't make sure their kids do their homework.
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#1352552 - 07/10/12 01:13 PM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 37815
Loc: Ship of Fools
Yes, too many marines. The war-making sector of government is also bloated, inefficient, and criminal, and is harming America, just as the government education sector is.

Before the now nearly complete ascendency of government education, it at least used to be true that war was the way that Americans learned geography. Not so true now.

Ex: Recently, two posters were proclaiming that American soldiers who had fought communism in Central Asia were heroes. Of course, that's complete fantasy; American soldiers have never fought communism in Central Asia.

IOW, America has now suffered government education for so long, and to such a degree, that many Americans no longer even know where their government is committing genocide and theft. Not like the old days, before government education had fully battened onto, and dumbed down, the citizenry, and when the average citizen knew exactly where Sand Creek and Wounded Knee, Buena Vista, Manilla, and Hanoi were. Pretty sad:

http://technorati.com/lifestyle/travel/article/americans-lack-geographic-literacy-cant-find/


There are many good people in both government education and in the military...it's a shame that they've been duped into becoming involved in a criminal enterprise like government...such a waste.
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#1352557 - 07/10/12 01:48 PM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: VM Smith]
Josephus Offline
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Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 10773
Loc: NYS
I remember a time in a college class about 25 years ago where the professor asked a student to point out Central America on map of the world. She pointed to Kansas...
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#1352558 - 07/10/12 02:17 PM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: Josephus]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 37815
Loc: Ship of Fools
Sad, and maddening, considering how much is stolen from us, only
to be wasted on government schools, but not surprising.
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#1352564 - 07/10/12 02:52 PM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: Josephus]
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Originally Posted By: Josephus
I remember a time in a college class about 25 years ago where the professor asked a student to point out Central America on map of the world. She pointed to Kansas...
Did you get a degree or did you attend college for a few years?

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#1352574 - 07/10/12 03:24 PM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: Josephus]
twocats Offline
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Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11865
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: Josephus
...or parents who don't make sure their kids do their homework.

ding ding ding ding! We have a winner. Homework is only part of the problem. These students enter school YEARS behind in language development. It's very complex, but it is akin to learning a new language. In addition to not knowing the names of things (from animals to rooms to eating utensils, the list goes on and on), these students don't know the structure of the language nor do they know the words of the the language. So very many students speak in baby talk. 'Me go potty?' 'Her be my friend.'. These things take ever so long to teach especially when proper language is not spoken in the home.
The students in my school are between 5 and 8 years old. We are trying to remediate the first 5 years of what was learned at home.
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#1352584 - 07/10/12 05:38 PM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: twocats]
Josephus Offline
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Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 10773
Loc: NYS
That's just amazing, twocats. Why am I not surprised?
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#1352647 - 07/11/12 08:02 AM Re: America Has Too Many Teachers [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 28868
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats
In my school, many students attend form 8-4:30 on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and from 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. on Tuesday and Thursday. They're in summer school now until August 19.


Originally Posted By: twocats
The students in my school are between 5 and 8 years old.


you have the children for that long of a time period and you still can not teach them the basics

time for a new qualified teacher...

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