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#1470954 --- 05/15/15 12:03 PM Re: eliminate state pensions [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 12741
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: tubby
IBM, Canandaigua Wine, Kodak, Xerox, First Niagara, Five Star, Community Bank, Guardian Glass, new employees at ITT, Seneca Foods, Zoto's etc. NO pension.

wonder if these companies could survive if they offered over generous pensions like the 'teachers' get?

the taxpayers have to pay for the 'teachers' pensions though...

Do you mean in the same way that virtually every taxpayer and company "survived" such generous pensions during the indisputable peak of America's economic prosperity? whistle
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#1471790 --- 06/03/15 08:38 AM Re: Eliminate State Pension Plans [Re: Lucinda Knotts]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 31962
Loc: USA
Quote:
Governor Cuomo on teachers union—“Don’t say you represent students”
January 28, 2015
In a meeting with editorial writers last week, Democratic Governor Andrew Cuomo critiqued the role of powerful teachers unions in our public education system. He said teachers unions represent themselves, not students.
The New York Daily News reports, “Cuomo referred to the teacher unions and the entrenched education establishment as an ‘industry’ that is more interested in protecting the rights of its members than improving the system for the kids it is supposed to be serving.”
Cuomo said, “Somewhere along the way, I believe we flipped the purpose of this. This was never a teacher employment program and this was never an industry to hire superintendents and teachers. This was a program to educate kids.”
Responding to a union member who said he represents students, Cuomo said, “No you don’t. You represent the teachers. Teacher salaries, teacher pensions, teacher tenure, teacher vacation rights. I respect that. But don’t say you represent the students.”
Many parents are concerned about the undue influence of powerful WEA union in Washington’s public schools. Teachers must pay about $1,000 a year to the union or be fired. Low-performing teachers with seniority are retained, while high-performing younger teachers are let go during layoffs. Each fall, children are denied access to public schools because of local strikes, as happened in communities like Tacoma, Kent, Bellevue, Marysville, Bellingham, and a recently-threatened strike in Seattle. The role of unions has become so problematic it has prompted the concern of even prominent liberal leaders like Governor Cuomo of New York.
As Governor Cuomo said, we will not improve education for children until the public fully understands the role of unions in public education.

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#1472009 --- 06/07/15 08:05 AM Re: 401k vs State Pension Plan [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 31962
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind


There are two main types of pension plans:
1. defined benefit plan
2. defined contribution plan

Defined Benefit Plan AKA defined benefit pension plan:

A company pension plan in which an employee's pension payments are calculated according to length of service and the salary they earned at the time of retirement. Public workers, Government and Xerox, etc.)


Quote:
NYS taxpayers are responsible for nearly $300 BILLION of unfunded liablities



your tax dollars...
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#1472012 --- 06/07/15 08:29 AM Re: eliminate state pensions [Re: Timbo]
Formermac Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 8060
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: tubby
IBM, Canandaigua Wine, Kodak, Xerox, First Niagara, Five Star, Community Bank, Guardian Glass, new employees at ITT, Seneca Foods, Zoto's etc. NO pension.

wonder if these companies could survive if they offered over generous pensions like the 'teachers' get?

the taxpayers have to pay for the 'teachers' pensions though...

Do you mean in the same way that virtually every taxpayer and company "survived" such generous pensions during the indisputable peak of America's economic prosperity? whistle


Don't allow facts to get in the way of selective ignorance on his/her part. grin

Blue, eliminating a pension is more of an punishment which should not be the case here and lets not forget why pensions are becoming hard to fulfill, remember the great days during the Reagan and Clinton era when investments to these plan were very lucrative? Well Mr. Bush destroyed all of that during his tenure. Don't believe me, consider the interest on bank accounts and bonds which most 401K and pension plans accrued much money. Lets not mention the unregulated markets in which Bush allowed corporations like Enron to totally destroy people's life savings.
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#1472014 --- 06/07/15 09:09 AM Re: eliminate state pensions [Re: Formermac]
Formermac Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 8060
I can remember when Romulus and South Seneca school districts invested in stock to grow their district's responsibility toward the teacher's retirements. Here is what unregulated actions on the corporation's part do to themselves and investors.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/07/2016-gm-bailout_n_7523248.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
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#1472088 --- 06/09/15 07:21 AM Re: Eliminate state pensions [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 31962
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
Originally Posted By: tubby
IBM, Canandaigua Wine, Kodak, Xerox, First Niagara, Five Star, Community Bank, Guardian Glass, new employees at ITT, Seneca Foods, Zoto's etc. NO pension.


lets not forget why pensions are becoming hard to fulfill


private companies eliminated pensions because they had to fund it every year

taxpayers pay for the short fall for 'teachers' pensions
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#1472092 --- 06/09/15 09:02 AM Re: Eliminate state pensions [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 12741
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
private companies eliminated pensions because they had to fund it every year

taxpayers pay for the short fall for 'teachers' pensions

REDICULOUS!

Companies eliminate pensions because of a very few well-known reasons.

* Funding Mismanagement.

* Funding Theft.

* Greed.

ANY well regulated, high-paying pension plan is fully capable of maintaining solvency. It's the criminals who run them that are the problem. You are correct however, as to who suffers the consequences.
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#1472093 --- 06/09/15 12:01 PM Re: Eliminate state pensions [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 8060
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Formermac
Originally Posted By: tubby
IBM, Canandaigua Wine, Kodak, Xerox, First Niagara, Five Star, Community Bank, Guardian Glass, new employees at ITT, Seneca Foods, Zoto's etc. NO pension.


lets not forget why pensions are becoming hard to fulfill


private companies eliminated pensions because they had to fund it every year








Exactly and this is where you expose your ignorance once again, pretty much every public, private and educational entity accelerated their funds growth by doing what? investments which at the time showed double digit returns. Bush destroyed those opportunities by allowing investment groups to monitor themselves which we now see as greedy opportunists who were their own worse enemies.
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#1472108 --- 06/09/15 06:03 PM Re: Eliminate state pensions [Re: Formermac]
Fart in the Wind Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 429
Loc: beneath the Utica Shale
Originally Posted By: Formermac
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Formermac
[quote=tubby]IBM, Canandaigua Wine, Kodak, Xerox, First Niagara, Five Star, Community Bank, Guardian Glass, new employees at ITT, Seneca Foods, Zoto's etc. ] NO pension.



Exactly and this is where you expose your ignorance once again,

It has already been shown on here that Kodak, Xerox, Guardian Glass, and IBM do in fact have pension plans.

Add Seneca foods to the list...from their website...

Seneca Foods offers several resources to help our employees plan for their successful retirement. It is worth noting that Seneca is one of the few remaining companies that offer both a 401(k) savings plan with a discretionary company match, and a defined benefit pension plan.



Edited by Fart in the Wind (06/09/15 10:09 PM)

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#1472313 --- 06/14/15 07:42 PM Re: 401k vs State Pension Plan [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 31962
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind


There are two main types of pension plans:
1. defined benefit plan
2. defined contribution plan

Defined Benefit Plan AKA defined benefit pension plan:

A company pension plan in which an employee's pension payments are calculated according to length of service and the salary they earned at the time of retirement. Public workers, Government and Xerox, etc.)


a defined benefits plan is NOT a defined contribtuion plan

so when will the 'teachers' convert to a defined CONTRIBUTION plan?

or will that COST THEM too much out of their pockets?
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#1472411 --- 06/16/15 09:48 AM Re: Eliminate state pensions [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 31962
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
I will agree taxes in NYS are out of hand.
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#1472419 --- 06/16/15 10:17 AM Re: 401k vs State Pension Plan [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 8060
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind


There are two main types of pension plans:
1. defined benefit plan
2. defined contribution plan

Defined Benefit Plan AKA defined benefit pension plan:

A company pension plan in which an employee's pension payments are calculated according to length of service and the salary they earned at the time of retirement. Public workers, Government and Xerox, etc.)


a defined benefits plan is NOT a defined contribtuion plan

so when will the 'teachers' convert to a defined CONTRIBUTION plan?

or will that COST THEM too much out of their pockets?




Blue, you can actually do yourself a huge service by detailing your stance. The previous poster gave you some detail on both define contributions and benefits. I actually retired with both. Now your statements can add some validity if you take the time to explain your stance adverse to regurgitating previously eaten substance similarly to a mother bird. Somehow the best in you is failing to surface.......lets try a new approach and maybe someone may listen.


http://money.cnn.com/retirement/guide/pensions_basics.moneymag/index3.htm
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#1472517 --- 06/17/15 10:33 PM Re: 401k vs State Pension Plan [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 31962
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
you can actually do yourself a huge service by detailing your stance.


a db plan is NOT a dc plan
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#1474296 --- 08/11/15 10:15 PM Re: Eliminate state pensions [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 31962
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
I will agree taxes in NYS are out of hand.



whec news 10 did story on the lower enrollment in rochester schools

the enrollment dropped by nearly 7,200 students

if the per pupil spending is near $20,000 per year the spending should have gone down by nearly $150,000,000

not only did the spending not go down but it went up close to $350,000,000 more

or close to $500,000,000 when both numbers are combined

enrollment drops by nearly 7,200 students but yet the budgets go up close to a HALF A BILLION DOLLARS

guess what a school official cited for the high costs?

the 'teachers' pensions and healthcare costs
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#1475142 --- 09/04/15 09:42 AM Re: Eliminate state pensions [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 31962
Loc: USA
obama should create obamaretire

he should force all employers to provide a pension

those that currently have a pension will see their pensions reduced to pay for those that do not have a pension

grin
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#1475144 --- 09/04/15 09:47 AM Re: Eliminate state pensions [Re: bluezone]
Formermac Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 8060
Or...we can continue to watch corporations take away and eliminate pensions altogether which they're currently doing.Apparently they are defying anything Obama is doing to help the plight of under insured or underpaid workers....I guess that you're getting what you want and that you're looking out for the welfare of the average worker. whistle
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#1475463 --- 09/12/15 02:22 PM Re: Eliminate state pensions [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 31962
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
we can continue to watch corporations take away and eliminate pensions altogether which they're currently doing.


time to cut the 'teachers' pay as their pensions are over generous when compared to others
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#1478577 --- 11/16/15 09:33 AM Re: Eliminate state pensions [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 31962
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
I will agree taxes in NYS are out of hand.


if all state employees were required to sign up for obamacare would that not lower the premiums for all?

would state taxes go down as the employees would be paying for their healthcare costs?
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#1482305 --- 02/26/16 12:23 PM Re: Eliminate state pensions [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 31962
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
I will agree taxes in NYS are out of hand.



whec news 10 did story on the lower enrollment in rochester schools

the enrollment dropped by nearly 7,200 students

if the per pupil spending is near $20,000 per year the spending should have gone down by nearly $150,000,000

not only did the spending not go down but it went up close to $350,000,000 more

or close to $500,000,000 when both numbers are combined

enrollment drops by nearly 7,200 students but yet the budgets go up close to a HALF A BILLION DOLLARS

guess what a school official cited for the high costs?

the 'teachers' pensions and healthcare costs


Quote:
Seventy percent or more of our annual budgets go to personnel costs, including the pensions, health
care and salaries of our teachers and staff, past and present.


We face state employee pension, workers compensation and healthcare costs for the upcoming year that continue to overwhelm school budgets
Trina Newton
Geneva CSD



Trina Newton - As far as the issues, when I look at the financial piece, healthcare is just out of control. When I take a look at what’s driving the budgets, it’s not what should be driving the budgets.
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#1495811 --- 02/25/17 05:49 PM Re: Eliminate state pensions [Re: Formermac]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 31962
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Formermac
we can continue to watch corporations take away and eliminate pensions altogether which they're currently doing.


if the private sector has have their pensions taken away then the same should apply to the public sector
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