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#1346020 --- 05/22/12 08:40 PM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: twocats]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: twocats
Government requires 401(k) plans to be invested in the stock market.

Originally Posted By: twocats
In a 401(k), you are limited to what your company offers.



So the government doesn't require 401 (k) plans be invested in the stock market?
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#1346022 --- 05/22/12 08:43 PM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: sands]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
I can't get a 401(k) at school. I get a 403(b). As far as I know, I can invest in stocks and bonds. The only thing I know is: diversify.
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#1346064 --- 05/23/12 06:48 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: twocats]
mimi33 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/02
Posts: 526
Loc: seneca falls, ny, usa
If you are concerned about fluctuations in the market, most 403bs, 401ks , and 457 plans offer a fixed option with a guaranteed rate of return. Pension plans have gotten into trouble because the managers of the funds have invested in higher risk options that did not perform have well as expected. They were chasing returns and gambling with other peoples money. Most receive bonuses based on performance. They are more concerned about their money than yours.,

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#1346066 --- 05/23/12 06:56 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: mimi33]
tubby Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 1338
Loc: N.Y.
She definitely shouldn't be as concerned as your average person she has a pension paid for by taxpayers with no contribution by her, a 401k is just a bonus for her, the rest us depend on it for our retirement.

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#1346071 --- 05/23/12 07:47 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32017
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats
Right because going back to college and investing in an education


the taxpayers paid for your education as you stated prior
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#1346072 --- 05/23/12 07:50 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32017
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats
In regular accounts, you can generally invest in whatever you want. You can buy any publicly traded stock, or you can withdraw the money and invest in your friend’s private company–a real consideration for entrepreneurs.

In a 401(k), you are limited to what your company offers.


open up your own ira or roth account with your money and not the taxpayers footing the bill
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#1346076 --- 05/23/12 07:52 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: tubby]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32017
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: tubby
She definitely shouldn't be as concerned as your average person she has a pension paid for by taxpayers


60% of her final pay or about $45,000 a year pension with only a total of $15,000 contribution by her over 10 years

Originally Posted By: twocats
I did contribute 3% of my salary for the 1st 10 years


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#1346077 --- 05/23/12 07:57 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: tubby]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32017
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: tubby
She definitely shouldn't be as concerned as your average person she has a pension paid for by taxpayers with no contribution by her


plus a very generous healthcare benefit

thought the teachers said they were underpaid?
how does she have money left over to invest?

must be from the taxpayers covering ALL of her pension and healthcare costs

time for NYS to convert to a 401k paln for the school employees
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#1346079 --- 05/23/12 07:59 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32017
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
Did You Know...
About 90% of funds used to pay NYSTRS benefits come from investment returns and employee contributions?


show us the numbers

what is the earliest age that tier 1-5 retire at?
what is percentage they contribute per year out of their salary?
how many years do they have to contribute?
do they receive 60% of their final salary for their pension?
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#1346099 --- 05/23/12 09:16 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: bluezone]
Fart in the Wind Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 429
Loc: beneath the Utica Shale
Stop chasing your tail and do your own research...

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#1346143 --- 05/23/12 02:41 PM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32017
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind

Did You Know...
About 90% of funds used to pay NYSTRS benefits come from investment returns and employee contributions?


you made the statement now back it up

if the teacher only pays in $15,000 into their pension but gets out over a $1 million guess who makes uo the difference

...the taxpayers pays the difference


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#1346313 --- 05/24/12 02:39 PM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32017
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
Did You Know...
About 90% of funds used to pay NYSTRS benefits come from investment returns and employee contributions?


good then eliminate the pensions and you can pay for your own retirement

$45,000 pension per year plus $25,000+ for SS per year plus another $20,000 from your own ira

$45,000 + $25,000 + $20,000 = $90,000 per year plus the taxpayers pay for your overly generous healthcare

no wonder you all retire at 55...

or is that why the union was going to 'close down NYS' if they had to convert to a 401k plan?
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#1346335 --- 05/24/12 04:44 PM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: mimi33]
Jseemore Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 252
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: mimi33
.... the managers of the funds have invested in higher risk options that did not perform have well as expected. They were chasing returns and gambling with other peoples money. Most receive bonuses based on performance. They are more concerned about their money than yours.,


Defines the Obama administration....now returning you to your regularly scheduled debate.
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#1347238 --- 05/30/12 09:19 PM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32017
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
Did You Know...
About 90% of funds used to pay NYSTRS benefits come from investment returns and employee contributions?


incorrect as you only put in $13,000 but get out over $800,000
did you let madoff run it for a few years?
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#1347573 --- 06/02/12 09:44 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32017
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
Did You Know...
About 90% of funds used to pay NYSTRS benefits come from investment returns and employee contributions?


then why have other employers removed pensions from their benefit package?
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#1347768 --- 06/04/12 08:01 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: bluezone]
Sketch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 668
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
Did You Know...
About 90% of funds used to pay NYSTRS benefits come from investment returns and employee contributions?


then why have other employers removed pensions from their benefit package?


NYS's pension system is indeed one of the strongest and most profitable in the country, if not the best.

Converting that into a 401K system would be a mistake.


Edited by Sketch (06/04/12 08:02 AM)
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#1347774 --- 06/04/12 08:15 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: bluezone]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
Did You Know...
About 90% of funds used to pay NYSTRS benefits come from investment returns and employee contributions?
then why have other employers removed pensions from their benefit package?
To increase the bottom line for the company and justify higher bonuses and comp packages for the executives.

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#1347775 --- 06/04/12 08:17 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: Sketch]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32017
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Sketch
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
Did You Know...
About 90% of funds used to pay NYSTRS benefits come from investment returns and employee contributions?
NYS's pension system is indeed one of the strongest and most profitable in the country, if not the best.


not for the taxpayers as they pay for 95% of the benefits for the state employees

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#1347784 --- 06/04/12 10:35 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: bluezone]
Sketch Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 668
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Sketch
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
Did You Know...
About 90% of funds used to pay NYSTRS benefits come from investment returns and employee contributions?
NYS's pension system is indeed one of the strongest and most profitable in the country, if not the best.


not for the taxpayers as they pay for 95% of the benefits for the state employees



Your assertion that the taxpayers are being drained by contributions to pensions is misinformed at best. On average, the state contri's run at 3%, with NYS being 2.9%. The implementation of 2 new tiers further alleviates that cost.
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#1347819 --- 06/04/12 04:03 PM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: bluezone]
Hicks McFarmer Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 217
Loc: The woods
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
Did You Know...
About 90% of funds used to pay NYSTRS benefits come from investment returns and employee contributions?


show us the numbers

what is the earliest age that tier 1-5 retire at?
what is percentage they contribute per year out of their salary?
how many years do they have to contribute?
do they receive 60% of their final salary for their pension?



The age is roughly 63-65 not 55. Unless you are a Correctional officer then it is 25 years of service. Or a trooper which is 20 years of service.

The percentage is 3-6 percent dependeing on salary. the more you make the more you give in. tiers 1-4 contribute until the employee is vested at 10 years. tiers 5 and 6 are vested after 10 years bu must contibute for the duration of employment.

percentage of final salary varies on what tier and union they are in. most get 50%-60%. Tier 1 may get more but tier 1 employees are few and far in-between.

Employees and retirees do not get free healthcare. it is taken out of there check. retirees may use unused sick time accrued over many years to pay for a portion of it.

90% of investment returns means that the other 10 percent is paid for largly by current employee contributions. Impact to taxpayers is minimal.

misinformation.


Edited by Hicks McFarmer (06/04/12 06:28 PM)
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