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#1345811 --- 05/21/12 08:13 PM 401 k versus state pension plan
Fart in the Wind Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 429
Loc: beneath the Utica Shale
Colorado went from defined benefit pension plans to 401 k s about nine years ago. Here is an article from 2 days ago.

Longtime State Pension Chief Resigns, Calls 401(k) Experiment a 'Failure'

http://www.governing.com/blogs/view/longtime-state-pension-chief-resigns.html

quotes -
Public pensions are not the story. The real story is that Americans in general are unprepared for retirement. They typically have no resources to support them if they should become unable to work, let alone sustain them in retirement. The 401(k) experiment is a failure. The social service cost implication of this situation is not being acknowledged and will become a huge burden in the future.

Predicting that handing over pension funds to Wall Street turned out to be a failure is about as hard as predicting Christmas will be on Dec 25.

Did You Know...
About 90% of funds used to pay NYSTRS benefits come from investment returns and employee contributions?

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#1345813 --- 05/21/12 08:47 PM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: Fart in the Wind]
Jseemore Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 252
Loc: New York
Being unprepared IS the problem.

Why should this be a "social burden"?

What ever happened to personal responsibility?
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If you say "gullible" slowly it sounds like "oranges".

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#1345822 --- 05/21/12 09:31 PM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: Jseemore]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Government requires 401(k) plans to be invested in the stock market. That's about as safe as a 2 year old with a loaded gun. You save all your life to have it destroyed in a stock market crash. Then what do you do? Food stamps and welfare. Pensions are safer and cost less in the long run.
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#1345848 --- 05/22/12 06:23 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: twocats]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: twocats
Government requires 401(k) plans to be invested in the stock market.



Really? You can't invest your 401K in bonds, mutual funds, gold, silver, or money market accounts? When did that change?
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01 - 20 - 2017

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#1345858 --- 05/22/12 07:27 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: sands]
tubby Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 1338
Loc: N.Y.
Twocats is a teacher and has her pension and medical paid for by the taxpayers and has no concept of finances in the real world.

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#1345864 --- 05/22/12 08:36 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: tubby]
MeRightYouWrong Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1597
Loc: Mountain of Truth
Originally Posted By: tubby
Twocats is a teacher and has her pension and medical paid for by the taxpayers and has no concept of finances in the real world.


Do you have any issue with Congress and their salary ($174,000/year), benefits that include better medical coverage than any of us will ever have, and retirement, all fully paid for by taxpayers and at a much higher level than for teachers? Or do you believe Congress deserves it because they benefit society more than teachers?

Keep in mind that Congress gets the package after only 5 years of service. Basically, a single term is about enough to receive better benefits than most working Americans will hope to ever get.

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#1345868 --- 05/22/12 08:50 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: MeRightYouWrong]
Jseemore Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 252
Loc: New York
_________________________
If you say "gullible" slowly it sounds like "oranges".

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#1345869 --- 05/22/12 08:52 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: sands]
Jseemore Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 252
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: twocats
Government requires 401(k) plans to be invested in the stock market.



Really? You can't invest your 401K in bonds, mutual funds, gold, silver, or money market accounts? When did that change?


\:\)
_________________________
If you say "gullible" slowly it sounds like "oranges".

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#1345870 --- 05/22/12 08:53 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: Jseemore]
MeRightYouWrong Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1597
Loc: Mountain of Truth
Originally Posted By: Jseemore
Do you always rely on emails for facts?

http://www.aarp.org/work/employee-benefi...ally_get.1.html

Ha, you're funny. I actually don't use email. Nothing but spam anyway. I used the US Senate Website itself for my facts.

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#1345871 --- 05/22/12 08:57 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: Jseemore]
Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7644
Originally Posted By: Jseemore
Do you always rely on emails for facts?

http://www.aarp.org/work/employee-benefi...ally_get.1.html


Facts from AARP are just like chain e-mails. AARP should be taxed just like another for profit company.

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#1345872 --- 05/22/12 09:00 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: MeRightYouWrong]
Jseemore Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 252
Loc: New York
_________________________
If you say "gullible" slowly it sounds like "oranges".

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#1345874 --- 05/22/12 09:05 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: Jseemore]
MeRightYouWrong Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1597
Loc: Mountain of Truth
Post your PolitiFacts and AARP websites all you want and call those facts but I got my information directly from the US Senate website, where it states Congress gets pension benefits after 5 years of service. Considering a Senator serves a 6-year term, that means they get pension benefits after only serving 1 term.

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#1345877 --- 05/22/12 09:17 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: MeRightYouWrong]
Jseemore Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 252
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: MeRightYouWrong
Post your PolitiFacts and AARP websites all you want and call those facts but I got my information directly from the US Senate website, where it states Congress gets pension benefits after 5 years of service. Considering a Senator serves a 6-year term, that means they get pension benefits after only serving 1 term.




I posted them because they break down the facts derived from the Senate website. Misleading to not include the required time served, percentages, age to collect as well as the contributions.
_________________________
If you say "gullible" slowly it sounds like "oranges".

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#1345883 --- 05/22/12 10:33 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: Jseemore]
Hard Corps Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/12
Posts: 764
Loc: The Village
The pension fund is in the condition it's in because funds have been stolen by politicians to offset their large spending on their pet projects.

The politicians give their cronies waivers so their cronies can keep earning a pension and still hold high paying state jobs.
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#1345894 --- 05/22/12 11:38 AM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: tubby]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: tubby
Twocats is a teacher and has her pension and medical paid for by the taxpayers and has no concept of finances in the real world.



Exactly. Talk about lack of personal responsibility.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. - Dr. Lawrence J. Peter

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#1345933 --- 05/22/12 04:02 PM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32017
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
Did You Know...
About 90% of funds used to pay NYSTRS benefits come from investment returns and employee contributions?


show us the numbers

what is the earliest age that tier 1-5 retire at?
what is percentage they contribute per year out of their salary?
how many years do they have to contribute?
do they receive 60% of their final salary for their pension?
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#1345934 --- 05/22/12 04:03 PM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: sands]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: twocats
Government requires 401(k) plans to be invested in the stock market.



Really? You can't invest your 401K in bonds, mutual funds, gold, silver, or money market accounts? When did that change?

A good investment plan is diversified. Aren't gold, silver, bonds and mutual funds traded at the stock exchange? I did not know I could put my 403(b) money in money market accounts. Can I do this through my local credit union?
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Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1345935 --- 05/22/12 04:04 PM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: Greymane]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: Greymane
Originally Posted By: tubby
Twocats is a teacher and has her pension and medical paid for by the taxpayers and has no concept of finances in the real world.



Exactly. Talk about lack of personal responsibility.

Right because going back to college and investing in an education to contract with a state agency that offers a pension plan is totally irresponsible.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1346005 --- 05/22/12 08:14 PM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: twocats]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: twocats
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: twocats
Government requires 401(k) plans to be invested in the stock market.



Really? You can't invest your 401K in bonds, mutual funds, gold, silver, or money market accounts? When did that change?


Aren't gold, silver, bonds and mutual funds traded at the stock exchange?



Gold and silver are traded on the commodities exchange. Bonds and mutual funds are traded on the securities exchange.


Originally Posted By: twocats
I did not know I could put my 403(b) money in money market accounts.


What does your 403(b) have to do with a 401k?
_________________________
01 - 20 - 2017

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#1346015 --- 05/22/12 08:31 PM Re: 401 k versus state pension plan [Re: sands]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
I am trying to learn about both since I have money in both. I'm not an economics whiz like this guy.
Planning for retirement raises a number of difficult questions. Iíll admit that I often get confused coming up with answers. And Iím an economics graduate who started investing in high school and enjoys reading financial articles. I have sympathy for anyone that feels overwhelmed or confused by the experts.

I think the main problem is that experts tell you what to do without telling you why to do it. Cookie cutter advice fails with a task as individual as retirement planning. We need to separate fact from judgment, and thatís what Iíll try to do in this article.

In regular accounts, you can generally invest in whatever you want. You can buy any publicly traded stock, or you can withdraw the money and invest in your friendís private companyĖa real consideration for entrepreneurs.

In a 401(k), you are limited to what your company offers.

http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2008/0...et-the-experts/
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Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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