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#1344897 --- 05/17/12 02:21 AM Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Comptroller finds improprieties with another tutoring provider
by Philissa Cramer, at 4:24 pm
Holes in the Department of Education’s oversight of tutoring companies that work in city schools allowed one of the companies to collect payments without proving it had delivered services, according to an audit by Comptroller John Liu.

Liu found that Champion Learning Center collected about $860,000 in the 2009-2010 school year for tutoring students who had not signed into tutoring sessions or for tutoring sessions that officials had not certified had taken place.

The audit highlights the murky world of “supplemental educational services” providers, companies that offer tutoring mandated under the No Child Left Behind law. They are private entities but are subject to a host of city and state regulations, and the city must both monitor them and give them access to students.

The audit comes weeks after the U.S. Department of Justice filed suit against another SES provider, Princeton Review, for falsifying attendance records and bilking New York City out of millions of dollars. In that case, investigators found that the company had submitted false signatures showing that tutoring sessions had taken place.

Related Stories

Comptroller finds city underreported high school drop-outs March 29, 2011 9
Auditing DOE’s space planning data, comptroller finds glitches September 14, 2011 3
Suit: Princeton Review charged city for tutoring it didn’t provide May 1, 2012 6
Audit: City failed to give timely services to needy children June 18, 2009 1
Comptroller-DOE feud takes center stage at audit announcement July 22, 2009 10
Liu does not conclude that outright fraud took place at Champion Learning, which New York Daily News columnist Juan Gonzalez revealed three years ago took home as much as $320 an hour for serving city students when overhead costs were included. Rather, Liu found that the group violated some regulations by delivering tutoring during school hours and played fast and loose with others — and that the city’s monitoring systems allowed for the possibility of fraud.

Liu wants the city to try to recoup the irregular payments to Champion Learning, and city officials said they would heed the suggestion.

“While the law requires that we offer contracts to all state-approved providers, they still have to comply with their contracts and applicable regulations,” said Marge Feinberg, a department spokeswoman, in a statement. “We will seek to recoup all payments for services that were not permitted or that could not be verified.”

Liu’s office has also referred the audit to the city’s Special Commission of Investigation for further scrutiny. SCI has previously detailed improprieties by other SES providers in the city.

Liu’s audit of Champion Education Partners is below.

http://gothamschools.org/2012/05/16/comptroller-finds-improprieties-with-another-tutoring-provider/
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Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1344942 --- 05/17/12 11:44 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: twocats
Comptroller finds improprieties with another tutoring provider
by Philissa Cramer, at 4:24 pm
Holes in the Department of Education’s oversight of tutoring companies that work in city schools allowed one of the companies to collect payments without proving it had delivered services, according to an audit by Comptroller John Liu.

Liu found that Champion Learning Center collected about $860,000 in the 2009-2010 school year for tutoring students who had not signed into tutoring sessions or for tutoring sessions that officials had not certified had taken place.

The audit highlights the murky world of “supplemental educational services” providers, companies that offer tutoring mandated under the No Child Left Behind law. They are private entities but are subject to a host of city and state regulations, and the city must both monitor them and give them access to students.

The audit comes weeks after the U.S. Department of Justice filed suit against another SES provider, Princeton Review, for falsifying attendance records and bilking New York City out of millions of dollars. In that case, investigators found that the company had submitted false signatures showing that tutoring sessions had taken place.

Related Stories

Comptroller finds city underreported high school drop-outs March 29, 2011 9
Auditing DOE’s space planning data, comptroller finds glitches September 14, 2011 3
Suit: Princeton Review charged city for tutoring it didn’t provide May 1, 2012 6
Audit: City failed to give timely services to needy children June 18, 2009 1
Comptroller-DOE feud takes center stage at audit announcement July 22, 2009 10
Liu does not conclude that outright fraud took place at Champion Learning, which New York Daily News columnist Juan Gonzalez revealed three years ago took home as much as $320 an hour for serving city students when overhead costs were included. Rather, Liu found that the group violated some regulations by delivering tutoring during school hours and played fast and loose with others — and that the city’s monitoring systems allowed for the possibility of fraud.

Liu wants the city to try to recoup the irregular payments to Champion Learning, and city officials said they would heed the suggestion.

“While the law requires that we offer contracts to all state-approved providers, they still have to comply with their contracts and applicable regulations,” said Marge Feinberg, a department spokeswoman, in a statement. “We will seek to recoup all payments for services that were not permitted or that could not be verified.”

Liu’s office has also referred the audit to the city’s Special Commission of Investigation for further scrutiny. SCI has previously detailed improprieties by other SES providers in the city.

Liu’s audit of Champion Education Partners is below.

http://gothamschools.org/2012/05/16/comptroller-finds-improprieties-with-another-tutoring-provider/


Am I missing something? See red.

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#1345957 --- 05/22/12 10:46 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Dear SUNY board and SUNY Charter Institute:
I urge you to reject the application of Success Academy to open two charter schools in District 2 on the following grounds:
1. Attrition and push-out rates: This charter chain has a very high student and teacher attrition rate, as referenced in news articles and its NYS report cards [annual teacher attrition rates of 38%, 56%, 19%, 50% and 26%.] It also has a documented history of pushing out high-needs students. And yet the new charter law explicitly says that charter schools should demonstrate an effort to recruit and retain at –risk children. This is not a model which deserves replication elsewhere in the city.
2. Evidence of excessive compensation and proposed charter management fees: Ms. Moskowitz receives an annual salary in excess of $379,478, in addition to benefits worth more than $24,000, amounting to a total compensation package of $403,660, according to the latest available (2009) submission to the IRS by the Success Charter Network.
Governor Cuomo has inveighed against excessive salaries for district superintendents who receive far lower salaries, and has proposed capping superintendents’ salaries at $175,000 a year in districts with fewer than 10,000 students. According to the SUNY charter website, the Success chain of charters has fewer than 3,000 students.
The Governor has also created a task force to investigate excessive compensation levels at not-for-profits that receive taxpayer support from the state, and in January, he signed an executive order to limit spending for executive pay at state-funded service providers, including a $199,000 salary cap.
Since Success charter schools receive considerable state funds to provide educational services, a portion of which are then handed over to the CMO to pay for Ms. Moskowitz’s salary, it is not clear if her compensation violates this executive order.
In addition, Ms. Moskowitz has applied for an increase inher management fees to 15%. These fees are twice the average for a NYC CMO (7%) and close to the average of for-profit NYC EMOs (17%). New charters run by EMOS are now banned by law, as I’m sure you are aware. Her excessive compensation and proposed hike in fees reveals a lack of fiscal prudence with taxpayer funds, and she should not be rewarded with permission to expand her network until these other matters are fully resolved.
3. Overwhelming parent and community opposition: At District 2 hearings about this application, scores of local parents and community members spoke out and have signed petitions opposing these applications. To my knowledge, not a single elected official representing the district supports these proposals and many have submitted comments against them. The Community Education Council in District 2 passed a resolution in opposition to these applications, as well as Manhattan Community Boards 5,6, and 8.
The new charter law was written expressly so that authorizers would have to take community input into consideration when making a decision. According to SUNY Charter Institute’s own RFP Guidance Handbook:
“SUNY’s proposal review process must generally ‘consider the demand for charter schools by the community,’ per Education Law § 2852(9-a)(b)…applicants will also be required to show evidence of community interest in and support for the school.”
Approving this charter would appear to violate the intent of the law.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1345976 --- 05/22/12 11:40 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7644
Nothing should be privatized. Everything needs and should be state run.

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#1345984 --- 05/22/12 11:53 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: ]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
The biggest problem I see is that it's being 'privatized' with tax dollars.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1346047 --- 05/23/12 08:07 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: ]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
Nothing should be privatized. Everything needs and should be state run.


The better to indoctrinate good little state worshipers, as this bureaucrat is trying to do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjpWaESn_9g
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1346060 --- 05/23/12 11:27 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: VM Smith]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
There is no need to privatize education. The simple solution is for the state to give out its money based on the children in that school. Just like most other countries.

If Tommy goes to public school A the state gives the school the amount of money that they decide is the amount needed to educate Tommy, let's say $10,000. If Tommy's parents decide that Tommy is a genius in math and Public school B has a better Math program they take Tommy out of Public School A and put him in Public school B. The State then takes the money and stops sending it to Public school A and sends it to Public school B. Or let’s say that Private Catholic school X has the best math program Tommy's parents can find so they take Tommy out of Public school B and send him to Catholic school X. The state then stops sending money to Public school B and starts to send it to Catholic school X.

There is now competition in public education, problem solved. Will it happen? No. The teachers unions will never allow it to go through and will spend billions to buy politicians so that it will not happen.

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#1346063 --- 05/23/12 11:37 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
There is now competition in public education, problem solved.


Not solved. There is still a state, and the state is still involved with education, as in the vid I posted, where the government bureaucrat is screaming that the kids must not disrespect the head of government.
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1346080 --- 05/23/12 01:06 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats
2. Evidence of excessive compensation


look in the mirror for over compensation without performace
time to bring in sylvan learning to teach the kids...

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#1346183 --- 05/24/12 03:18 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Another good example of why it should be privatized. Why should anyone have to pay school taxes to support idiocy like this?:


(NaturalNews) A former student at Perryton High School in Perryton, Texas, has filed a lawsuit against the school's district for injuries he allegedly suffered during a teacher-mandated reenactment of the Holocaust. According to the suit, Andrew Yara, now 19, suffered a partially dislocated hip, dehydration, and a series of seizures after being forced to carry around several heavy student on his back as part of the bizarre education experiment.

For a number of years now, Perryton High School has observed a two-day remembrance of the Holocaust known as "Red Ribbon Day," during which time students taking a world history class are taught the grim details of this sobering scourge on human history. But part of this educational experience includes dividing students up into groups of "Nazis" and "Jews," and forcing the "Jews" to withstand numerous forms of abuse from the "Nazis."

"(The Jews) must do everything school faculty or other students tell them to, including picking up other students' trash, being taken outside and sprayed with water hoses, bear-crawling across the hot track, carrying other students' books, and even carrying other students," says the complaint. "[A]ny student who did not do everything they were told were [sic] receive a failing grade.

Yara, who was one of the "Jews" forced to wear a red ribbon, subsequently became injured after a student who allegedly weighed nearly double Yara's own weight jumped on Yara's back and asked Yara to carry him around in between a class period. Yara says he was forced to carry three different students around during this passing period, and at one point had two students jump on his back at the same time.

When the second student jumped on Yara's back, Yara allegedly fell backwards and sustained numerous injuries to his body that sent "shocking, burning" pain down both of his legs from his pelvis. Yara says he suffered continued pain throughout the day in his lower back and legs, and later had to undergo expensive medical treatment. He also later passed out at work and had to be rushed to the emergency room.

Yara and his parents say the school showed "deliberate indifference" to Yara's constitutional rights throughout "Red Ribbon Week," and they are seeking damages for violations of Yara's right to bodily integrity under the due process clause of the 14th Amendment. They also cited Yara's right to be free from excessive force under the Fourth Amendment as part of the suit, which is also asking the school district to cover the costs associated with Yara's medical bills.

You can read the full details of the lawsuit here:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/05/17/redribbon.pdf

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035953_high_school_Nazi_prisoners.html#ixzz1vklzg5xR
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1346191 --- 05/24/12 03:47 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: VM Smith]
Rascal Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 17022
Loc: Brewerton, NY, USA
They shouldn't just be allowed to sue the school district, but also the teacher union, and the teacher himself.

The teachers should all have their own malpractice insurance paid for by themselves.

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#1346318 --- 05/24/12 08:04 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
a rochester school is going to have 12 hour days and 11 months for the school year

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#1346404 --- 05/25/12 08:16 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
mimi33 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/02
Posts: 526
Loc: seneca falls, ny, usa
I have to agree with cwiga here if its really public education, than it should be equal across the board...x amount to dollars per student. And although you, twocats, seem to be a dedicated teacher, there are too many teachers these days who aare obviously not. Too many who are tenured after only three years, who throw their kids to the wolves because they just don't have to work anymore. And to deny that is to agree to lie about anything that is wrong with the current system.

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#1346432 --- 05/25/12 11:53 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: mimi33]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Why Charter Schools Are the True 'Purple' Solution to Public Education


By Lanny Davis

Published October 20, 2011

FoxNews.com




In the 1960s, the late New York Sen. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (D) used conservative, market-based, competitive forces to renew and create new jobs in the inner-city wasteland of the minority neighborhood of Bedford-Stuyvesant in Brooklyn. A cynical New York City reporter (a redundant expression) was heard to mutter, as he heard Kennedy’s pro-market, pro-business ideas to help the poor, “You sound like Barry Goldwater.” Legend has it that Kennedy responded: “Maybe, but I know that I mean it.”

Today we have a concept called “a charter school,” which uses private market forces and competition to improve our public school system — by breaking the traditional monopoly franchise of the public school district, run by local boards of education.

A charter school, despite misunderstanding by many people, is a public school and is part of the public school system. It has also been mischaracterized as a private school, or as a door-opener for public-funded vouchers to pay for private schools. That is wrong. But it is a school under contract — with one party a public entity — such as the board of education or the school system superintendent — and the other party a private party, whether a for-profit company, parents or teachers.

The deal is this: The contract, or “charter,” allows the outside entity to operate the school free of the uniform rules applying to curriculum, teaching salaries, hiring and firing and other operating details that are applicable to all public schools; but in return, the charter school must deliver on pre-agreed goals, such as performance measured by standard tests or graduation rates.

What does this achieve? A lot. First and foremost, it busts monopoly power, where one organization, such as the school district, has a captive group of customers, i.e., public school students, who have no choice but to be subject to the monopoly. And it provides the benefit of competition — students have choices, and if the charter school doesn’t work, they (i.e., their parents) can vote with their feet. And perhaps more importantly, the public school system is no longer a monopoly — they must do better or they will lose more students to charter schools within the public school system.

Success stories of the charter school movement can be found across the nation. In Detroit, with one of the highest dropout rates in the country, a charter school called University Prep Academy was founded in 1998 by the visionary Doug Ross, a former Labor Department official. He received supplementary private funding, and promised to meet the goal of 90 percent graduation and 90 percent going further to some type of higher education. And he met those goals, using creative teaching, curriculum and personalized techniques.

For example, parents at Prep Academy must attend “Learned Team Meetings” with their children three times each year. The academy develops curriculum “one student at a time,” allowing students and teachers to develop their own learning plan, updated at the end of each marking period. Up to eighth grade, instead of grades, the school evaluates students with a combination of learning checklists, rating scales and narrative comments.

Another success story is a charter school in Chicago, called the Youth Connections Charter School (YCCS) at Malcolm X Community. The contracting party is a for-profit company called K12, run by another educational visionary, Ron Packard. But the school itself is run by a nonprofit board, which includes representatives of public entities and community leaders. YCCS in itself deserves a separate column and study: It serves only kids out of the school system for at least a year — whether dropouts, in jail, or girls who have had babies. The results — using a hybrid of online, supervised education or in-school teaching — are nothing short of miraculous. Graduation rates at YCCS have also exceeded 90 percent.

So charter schools are the latest example of the benefits of challenging government monopolies, with the resulting benefits of competition, private investments and innovation. This lesson is just as true in order to achieve such liberal goals as creating jobs and enrolling lower-income people in affordable health care as it applies to public school education.

Lanny Davis is the principal in the Washington D.C. law firm of Lanny J. Davis & Associates, which specializes in strategic crisis management. He is a Fox News contributor. Davis served as President Clinton’s Special Counsel in 1996-98 and as a member of President Bush’s Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board in 2006-07. He is the author of “Scandal: How ‘Gotcha’ Politics Is Destroying America” (Palgrave Macmillan, 2006). He can be found on Facebook and Twitter (@LannyDavis). His column appears Thursdays on FoxNews.com, The Hill, the Daily Caller, Newsmax.com, the Huffington Post and the Jakarta Globe.

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#1346540 --- 05/25/12 09:38 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
Ayuveda Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Originally Posted By: cwjga

Why Charter Schools Are the True 'Purple' Solution to Public Education




Plan on testing those privatized waters once your term of office is over presidente Trierarch?

Good riddence. I'm sure you'd float to the top.





Fight to save Philadelphia schools
By Betsey Piette
Philadelphia
Published May 2, 2012




Philadelphia students protest school
closings and cuts in staff.
photo: Joseph Piette



The wholesale privatization of Philadelphia public schools is underway. A broad-based movement will be needed to stop it.

A decade ago, protests by students and parents temporarily blocked the massive privatization of Philadelphia’s schools by the for-profit education management corporation, Edison Schools — now EdisonLearning Inc. Once again, an attempt is now being made to turn over control of education in the fifth-largest U.S. city to a handful of for-profit corporations.

This January, the unelected Philadelphia School Reform Commission, after announcing that the district was “on the brink of financial disaster,” appointed former Philadelphia Gas Co. CEO, Thomas Knudsen, as district “recovery” officer.

Knudsen will be paid $150,000 for six months’ work. His first “cost-cutting” measure was to award a “short-term” $6 million contract to The Boston Group to implement $61 million in budget cuts over the next six months. He is calling for more than half a billion dollars in cuts by 2017.

Knudsen’s recommendations are to close 40 “low-performing, underutilized” schools in 2013 and 24 more by 2017. The remaining 185 schools in the district would be broken up into “achievement networks” of about 25 schools each, to be run by private companies who bid for management contracts. The number of charter schools, now handling about 25 percent of the city’s roughly 200,000 students, would increase to accommodate 40 percent.

Washington Post blogger Karen Strauss described Knudsen’s proposal as a “desperate Hail Mary pass with no more chance of succeeding than previous efforts.” (April 28)

The plan is also clearly an attack on school workers and their unions. The central school district office staff, already only half of what it was last year, would be further reduced from 600 to 250 workers. Cuts in wages and benefits would total $156 million.

More than 2,500 blue-collar union jobs will be outsourced, forcing workers to give up wages and benefits. Knudsen calls for the “renegotiation” or even “abrogation” of existing school employee union contracts.

Philadelphia Federation of Teachers President Jerry T. Jordan described Knudsen’s proposal as “a cynical, right-wing and market-driven plan to privatize public education, to force thousands of economically disadvantaged families to select from an under-funded hodge-podge of EMO [education management organizations] and charter company-run schools and to convert thousands of professional and family-sustaining positions into low-paying, high-turnover jobs.” (TheNotebook.org, April 24)

Disaster capitalism

The 2011-12 Reform Commission budget made draconian cuts in Philadelphia’s already underfunded schools. Knudsen’s plan for 2013-17 promises even more. It contains no provisions for smaller classrooms, art and music, school libraries, full-time nurses or adequate security. And the promise of better education through charter schools has proven illusory.

Helen Gym, a mother of three, told Knudsen, “You’re not speaking for me.” Gym, a community organizer active in addressing conflicts between Asian and African-American students at a South Philadelphia high school, described the Knudsen Plan as “disaster capitalism that tries to shock a besieged public with unproven, untested, and drastic action couched as ‘solutions’.”

Gym challenged Knudsen’s use of terms like “achievement networks” and “rightsizing” schools when there is no plan to reduce class sizes or increase support personnel, noting that “seat expansion” just means “larger class sizes without extra funds.” Gym went on to criticize the plan to “expand charter populations willy-nilly despite a national study showing two-thirds of Philadelphia charters are no better or worse than district-managed schools.” (TheNotebook.org, April 24)

It’s not just in Philadelphia. A new University of Texas study found African-American high school students in Texas are three times more likely to drop out from a charter system than from a regular public school. The rate for students who leave school because of transfers to another state, homeschooling or by being expelled was 5 percent for large urban school districts but 15 percent for charters. In districts with less than 100 African-American students, the numbers were even worse: 22 percent dropped out and 18 percent left. The study compared districts in Austin, Houston and Dallas from 1998 to 2008. (Austin Chronicle, April 27)

Without jobs to offer, who needs educated students?

There is no lack of money that could be used for education. Last year’s state budget for Pennsylvania slashed nearly $1 billion in public education funding yet approved spending $600 million to construct new prisons. The state’s total spending for prisons is over $2.1 billion. The state’s annual education subsidy for Philadelphia averages $6,953 per student, while it spends more than $32,000 to incarcerate each prisoner.

Taxpayers in Philadelphia will pay $476.2 million in 2012 alone for the cost of U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, enough to finance the salaries of 7,029 elementary teachers for a year.

There has been plenty of money to bail out the banks and lending institutions. If you add up what the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank spent to bail out banks here and in Europe and Japan, the total poured into the world capitalist financial system was close to $20 trillion. That’s $20,000,000,000,000.

In the book, “Capitalism at a Dead End,” Fred Goldstein notes: “The system of capitalism is facing a crisis unlike any it’s experienced before. This is not simply a cyclical problem of overproduction that will go away in a few years, but a systemic problem aggravated by over 30 years of globalization and growing global unemployment.”

Youth have been hit the hardest. At the end of 2009, globally there were 81 million unemployed youth ages 15 to 24. In the U.S., official youth unemployment is 20 percent, but in most urban areas it’s 50 percent or higher.

The new generation of workers coming into the workforce is largely shut out, whether or not these workers have obtained higher degrees of education. With capitalism needing fewer workers to produce more and more goods and services in less and less time, the need for an educated workforce diminishes.

A new report by the Associated Press found that more than 53.6 percent of the people under 25 having a bachelor’s degree were either out of work or doing jobs that need only a high school diploma or less. (FightBack!News, April 28)

High tech has driven down the level of skills required for many jobs in modern industry today. Most jobs under 21st-century capitalism are low or medium level and require little or no formal education above middle or high school. Rather than having our tax money spent to educate workers they don’t need, the corporations and banks push to lower their own measly taxes and pressure politicians to spend public funds on bailing out the banks.

Capitalism is proving bankrupt when it comes to providing for human needs and social services, including education. A fightback movement is certain to develop in response to the Knudsen Plan. As devastating as these proposed cuts to Philadelphia’s schools could be, it would be a mistake to limit our demands to school reform issues.

To be successful, this struggle must also be a fight for jobs, union wages and benefits, and for an end to the school-to-prison pipeline. And to have lasting success, the fight must be against the greedy, rotten, capitalist system that puts profits before all else.


http://www.workers.org/2012/us/philadelphia_schools_0510/

_________________________
Sometimes, tear gas can make you see better.
-graffiti in Athens


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#1346569 --- 05/26/12 01:12 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Ayuveda]
Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7644

You deserve this comrade!



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#1346572 --- 05/26/12 01:39 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: ]
Ayuveda Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus

You deserve this comrade!

_________________________
Sometimes, tear gas can make you see better.
-graffiti in Athens


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#1346645 --- 05/26/12 07:34 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Ayuveda]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47577163/ns/technology_and_science-science/#.T8Esp8VXm70

Richard Leakey predicts skepticism over evolution will soon be history.

Not that the avowed atheist has any doubts himself.

Sometime in the next 15 to 30 years, the Kenyan-born paleoanthropologist expects scientific discoveries will have accelerated to the point that "even the skeptics can accept it."

"If you get to the stage where you can persuade people on the evidence, that it's solid, that we are all African, that color is superficial, that stages of development of culture are all interactive," Leakey says, "then I think we have a chance of a world that will respond better to global challenges."

Leakey, a professor at Stony Brook University on Long Island, recently spent several weeks in New York promoting the Turkana Basin Institute in Kenya. The institute, where Leakey spends most of his time, welcomes researchers and scientists from around the world dedicated to unearthing the origins of mankind in an area rich with fossils.

His friend, Paul Simon, performed at a May 2 fundraiser for the institute in Manhattan that collected more than $2 million. A National Geographic documentary on his work at Turkana aired this month on public television.

Now 67, Leakey is the son of the late Louis and Mary Leakey and conducts research with his wife, Meave, and daughter, Louise. The family claims to have unearthed "much of the existing fossil evidence for human evolution."

On the eve of his return to Africa earlier this week, Leakey spoke to The Associated Press in New York City about the past and the future.

"If you look back, the thing that strikes you, if you've got any sensitivity, is that extinction is the most common phenomena," Leakey says. "Extinction is always driven by environmental change. Environmental change is always driven by climate change. Man accelerated, if not created, planet change phenomena; I think we have to recognize that the future is by no means a very rosy one."

Any hope for mankind's future, he insists, rests on accepting existing scientific evidence of its past.

"If we're spreading out across the world from centers like Europe and America that evolution is nonsense and science is nonsense, how do you combat new pathogens, how do you combat new strains of disease that are evolving in the environment?" he asked.

"If you don't like the word evolution, I don't care what you call it, but life has changed. You can lay out all the fossils that have been collected and establish lineages that even a fool could work up. So the question is why, how does this happen? It's not covered by Genesis. There's no explanation for this change going back 500 million years in any book I've read from the lips of any God."

Leakey insists he has no animosity toward religion.

"If you tell me, well, people really need a faith ... I understand that," he said.

"I see no reason why you shouldn't go through your life thinking if you're a good citizen, you'll get a better future in the afterlife ...."
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1346655 --- 05/26/12 09:10 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: kyle585]
cwjga Offline
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Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Emanuel Interview Irks Teachers Union





An interview with Mayor Rahm Emanuel is featured in a new video from a Michigan-based education organization promoting charter schools and criticizing the Chicago Teachers Union.

by HUNTER CLAUSS | Jan 31, 2012


As Chicago Public Schools begins what are certain to be contentious contract talks with the Chicago Teachers Union, Mayor Rahm Emanuel emerged as the star of a new online video promoting charter schools and ripping the union.

An exclusive interview with Emanuel highlights the 35-minute video produced by the Michigan-based Education Action Group Foundation and Fox News political analyst Juan Williams. Williams narrates the video, saying the teachers union is “radically politicized” and is “repeatedly providing terrible examples for Chicago’s school children.” (Scroll down to see the video)

A spokeswoman for Emanuel said Monday the mayor did not share those views of the union, but CTU officials were irked by Emanuel’s more-measured comments in an interview with Williams. The mayor discusses the opposition he faced from the CTU to some of his education proposals, such as extending the length of the school day this year.

“Do I think the union leadership has been a problem in resisting? Absolutely,” Emanuel tells Williams. Emanuel also says: “I think the system was never designed to benefit the kids.” And he lauds teachers at the Noble Street charter network’s schools as being “on a mission” and “not just doing a job.”

CTU spokeswoman Stephanie Gadlin described the mayor’s collaboration with the Education Action Group Foundation as odd. “Their new video is little more than right-wing propaganda that contributes nothing to the education debate in our city,” she said.

Kyle Olson, the founder and CEO of the Education Action Group Foundation, said he decided to focus the video on Emanuel’s education agenda, including his support for charter schools, partly because of the vocal opposition those efforts elicited from the union. The video’s title, “A Tale of Two Missions,” is a reference to the contrasting visions of the mayor and union officials, Olson said.

The video’s release last week came as Emanuel’s administration began negotiations with the union for a new four-year contract. Olson said the timing was not meant to coincide with the labor talks, but he hoped it would have an impact on public perception of the negotiations.

“You have got a mayor who wants to reform the school system and the teachers union is fighting him virtually every step of the way,” Olson told the Chicago News Cooperative on Monday. “Chicago Public Schools needs to be reformed, and the way you do that is through the contract.”

The interview with Emanuel was conducted in October, after Olson and Williams issued a request to the mayor’s office over the summer.

Tarrah Cooper, a spokeswoman for Emanuel, said the mayor agreed to the interview because the Education Action Group Foundation wanted to highlight school options in the city.

“He and Juan discussed the reforms within the Chicago Public Schools system to ensure that every child in every neighborhood has access to a world-class education to prepare them for college and career,” Cooper said in an email.

In the video, Williams refers to Emanuel’s decision to enroll his children in private school. “Those who are lucky enough to send their children to private schools, do,” Williams says. “Even the mayor has his children in private schools.”

The film also features clips of CTU President Karen Lewis giving a speech last year mocking U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan’s lisp and talking about her drug use during college. The footage of Lewis’ speech became public when the Education Action Group Foundation sent an edited version to media outlets in November. Lewis later apologized for her comments but criticized Olson as a “neoconservative, anti-labor and anti-public education blogger.”

Williams describes teachers unions in general as “beneficiaries of the failed status quo” who “obstruct and resist education reform whenever and however it is tried.” He touts charter schools, whose teachers largely are not unionized, as a “Chicago miracle” and a solution to poorly performing public schools, although state achievement test data released last year showed charters schools performed nearly the same as neighborhood schools.

Emanuel has been a firm supporter of charters, which receive taxpayer money but are privately operated. In last year’s mayoral election, Emanuel’s campaign co-chairman was Juan Rangel, who oversees one of the city’s largest charter school networks. Emanuel also has pushed for Chicago Public Schools to adopt policies used by charter operators, such as home visits by teachers, stiffer teacher performance standards and providing merit pay for teachers.

The Education Action Group Foundation is not the only out-of-state organization hoping to influence the contract talks in Chicago.

Mary Anderson, the executive director of Oregon-based Stand for Children’s Illinois office, said she was planning events such as telephone “town hall meetings” so parents can ask questions about the negotiations. “We want to make sure parents have a say in what’s happening,” she said.

In 2010, Stand For Children created a political committee that made donations to state lawmakers, and it was a driving force in winning approval for legislation that will extend the school day in Chicago next school year and make it harder for teachers to go on strike.

To counter such efforts, the CTU has hired veteran political consultant Delmarie Cobb, whose clients include Cook County Circuit Court Clerk Dorothy Brown and City Council members Leslie Hairston (5th Ward) and Anthony Beale (9th).

Gadlin, the CTU spokeswoman, said union leaders hoped Cobb would help beef up the labor group’s public-relations efforts because they felt “outgunned” last year by Emanuel’s aggressive push for longer school hours.

“They’re very good, as you’ve seen with Kyle Olson,” she said.

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#1346750 --- 05/27/12 03:36 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: mimi33]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: mimi33
I have to agree with cwiga here if its really public education, than it should be equal across the board...x amount to dollars per student. And although you, twocats, seem to be a dedicated teacher, there are too many teachers these days who aare obviously not. Too many who are tenured after only three years, who throw their kids to the wolves because they just don't have to work anymore. And to deny that is to agree to lie about anything that is wrong with the current system.

I also agree that all students and schools should be funded more equitably. However, let's say that one school has 10% non-English speakers. The state requires 2 teachers for those students, not just one classroom teacher. In that case, non-English speaking students cost more so they should 'carry more money with them' wherever they go. The same goes for special ed. students.

As for teachers who don't grow with the times, they are out there. I am totally in favor of renewable contracts, but my fear is that many schools will base employment decisions entirely on cost instead of who may be the best teacher.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1346751 --- 05/27/12 03:38 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: VM Smith]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: VM Smith

(NaturalNews) A former student at Perryton High School in Perryton, Texas, has filed a lawsuit against the school's district for injuries he allegedly suffered during a teacher-mandated reenactment of the Holocaust. According to the suit, Andrew Yara, now 19, suffered a partially dislocated hip, dehydration, and a series of seizures after being forced to carry around several heavy student on his back as part of the bizarre education experiment.

For a number of years now, Perryton High School has observed a two-day remembrance of the Holocaust known as "Red Ribbon Day," during which time students taking a world history class are taught the grim details of this sobering scourge on human history. But part of this educational experience includes dividing students up into groups of "Nazis" and "Jews," and forcing the "Jews" to withstand numerous forms of abuse from the "Nazis."


That's just wrong on so many levels.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1347247 --- 05/31/12 02:40 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Williams describes teachers unions in general as “beneficiaries of the failed status quo” who “obstruct and resist education reform whenever and however it is tried.”


all they want are raises and more overly generous benefits without any evalutions

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#1347272 --- 05/31/12 11:52 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Williams describes teachers unions in general as “beneficiaries of the failed status quo” who “obstruct and resist education reform whenever and however it is tried.”


all they want are raises and more overly generous benefits without any evalutions




Nothing will change because they do not want change. Rather than talking about improvements they could make they spend wasted time complaining about other schools.

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#1348691 --- 06/12/12 01:51 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
a discussion on the national news had an individual ask why do the teachers even need unions as they do not help the students

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#1348697 --- 06/12/12 02:05 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 5389
Loc: Malmö
Really? It must be a slow news day if they're resorting to that tripe.
_________________________
"Everything that has ever happened to us is there to make us stronger."
-John Trudell


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#1352288 --- 07/08/12 05:14 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Teonan]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Louisiana Republican: When I Voted for State Funds to go to Religious Schools, I Didn’t Mean Muslim Ones
July 5, 2012 By Hemant Mehta 632 Comments
In Louisiana, Republican Governor Bobby Jindal pushed for a voucher program that would allow state funds to be used to pay for religious schools. It’s unconstitutional, it’s a way to use taxpayer money to fund someone’s faith, and it was a bad idea to begin with.
But it passed.
Now, one of the state legislators, Rep. Valarie Hodges (R-Watson), just made a shocking discovery, though: Christianity isn’t the only religion!

Rep. Valarie Hodges, R-Watson, says she had no idea that Gov. Bobby Jindal’s overhaul of the state’s educational system might mean taxpayer support of Muslim schools.
“I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or private schools,” the District 64 Representative said Monday.

“Unfortunately it will not be limited to the Founders’ religion,” Hodges said. “We need to insure that it does not open the door to fund radical Islam schools. There are a thousand Muslim schools that have sprung up recently. I do not support using public funds for teaching Islam anywhere here in Louisiana.”
Wait, we’re teaching the “Founders’ religion”? I can’t wait to see those Deistic schools popping up everywhere…
I can’t decide whether the staffers at Americans United are collectively rolling their eyes or shaking their heads in disbelief, but they’re right to suggest “We told you so”:
Where to begin? Hodges’ bigotry is perhaps only rivaled by her ignorance of constitutional and legal principles. Of course Muslim schools will qualify for funding under a voucher plan. When programs like this are set up that dole out benefits to religious schools, the government can’t play favorites. That’s basic.

Some legislators aren’t comfortable funding Muslim schools. What’s to be done? How about not establishing these programs in the first place? Let Muslims fund Muslim schools. Let Catholics fund Catholics ones. Let fundamentalist Protestants pay for the conservative Christian academies and so on.
Rep. Hodges made the mistake of saying out loud what most conservative Christians only say to themselves to private: When they say they want “religious freedom,” they’re only referring to their own faith. Everyone else can fend for themselves.
Message to Rep. Hodges: Your Christian privilege is showing.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1352293 --- 07/08/12 06:07 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
LOL! Love it! As I was reading, I was also wondering about those Deistic schools. ;\)
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1352520 --- 07/10/12 12:14 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Quote:
America Has Too Many Teachers
Public-school employees have doubled in 40 years while student enrollment has increased by only 8.5%—and academic results have stagnated.

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#1352531 --- 07/10/12 12:52 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
Yeah. Let's reduce the number of teachers and triple the number of students in a class. That should improve our educational system, right? And if it results in more students failing, who cares? We've saved some money, right?

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#1352532 --- 07/10/12 01:20 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7644
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Yeah. Let's reduce the number of teachers and triple the number of students in a class. That should improve our educational system, right? And if it results in more students failing, who cares? We've saved some money, right?
Maybe we need to pass out more free birth control.

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#1353625 --- 07/16/12 10:53 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Nick Trombetta, Pennsylvania Cyber Charter School Founder, Has Office Raided By FBI Agents
Posted: 07/13/2012 3:46 pm Updated: 07/13/2012 3:46 pm


FBI agents on Thursday raided the office of Pennsylvania Charter Cyber School founder Nick Trombetta, who is suspected of misusing Pennsylvania tax dollars to fund his out-of-state ventures, KDKA News reports.

The FBI raided the administrative offices of PA Cyber and other ventures founded by Trombetta, including the Avanti Management Group -- a for-profit consultant firm based in Ohio.

The Pennsylvania Cyber Charter School, founded in 2000, enrolled more than 11,300 students in the 2011-12 academic year and has an annual budget of more than $100 million. Critics say the $10,000 the school receives for each child far exceeds the cost of educating a student online, and that the excess money has gone to other Trombetta ventures such as the National Network of Digital Schools and the Lincoln Interactive, which develops and markets online curriculum.

These ventures have spawned cyber schools nationwide, and a federal investigation is now underway to determine if Trombetta personally profited.

According to the Herald Star, Trombetta and several educational organizations under his oversight have been the subject of state grand jury investigations in the past. These include the Midland School District -- of which he was the superintendent, PA Cyber, Lincoln Park Performing Arts Center and the National Network of Digital Schools in Calcutta.

Trombetta announced in May that he was leaving the school to "try something else," according to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.


Edited by twocats (07/16/12 10:54 PM)
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1353642 --- 07/17/12 12:16 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: ]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Yeah. Let's reduce the number of teachers and triple the number of students in a class. That should improve our educational system, right? And if it results in more students failing, who cares? We've saved some money, right?
Maybe we need to pass out more free birth control.
Actually Harley, that's a good idea! I'd give you credit for being more enlightened but I know it was an unintended error... even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then. Fewer teen pregnancies would have a positive effect on education overall.

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#1353654 --- 07/17/12 01:06 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Yeah. Let's reduce the number of teachers and triple the number of students in a class. That should improve our educational system, right?


so why has student performance declined while the number of teachers has doubled?

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#1353664 --- 07/17/12 02:49 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
I don't know. But if you're suggesting that increasing the number of teachers is responsible for the drop in student performance, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. If it were true that reducing the number of teachers would improve student performance, then we should expect to see increasing performance as the number of teachers approaches zero -- at that point the students should all be successful and there would be no need for teachers or schools at all!!!

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#1354369 --- 07/20/12 01:09 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
BigRed Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 218
Loc: ny
The fact of the matter is that too many of the people who go into teaching do it for summers off and good benefits. And the free time it gives them to post here while sitting in class.

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#1354370 --- 07/20/12 01:13 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: BigRed]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
I can't say that there aren't some teachers like the ones you describe, but let's face it -- there are less than competent, poorly motivated people in just about any occupation. I agree that teachers like that need to be replaced, but simply cutting back on all teaching positions is ill advised, in my opinion.

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#1354387 --- 07/20/12 01:43 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: BigRed]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: BigRed
The fact of the matter is that too many of the people who go into teaching do it for summers off and good benefits. And the free time it gives them to post here while sitting in class.

Yeah... sort of like the fact that too many people make a career out of the military because they can retire before age 40.

You don't suppose there might be another reason why people go into teaching, do you...
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1354851 --- 07/23/12 03:27 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
Spanky Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 1497
Loc: Seneca Falls NY Seneca
Still can't figure out why we had 32 people in my class from k-12 and we could all read and write and add and subtract and we knew where all the cities in the US were located and where most of the countries were. We even knew how to spell ,write clearly. and how to use nouns,verbs,etc-etc. Man, we were old fashioned, only one coach,one principal, no super's, no aids,no monitors, no Bocces, no counselor's. WOW, we were old fashioned, but we were way ahead of any student of nowdays. That's why a high school education then was better than many of our college grads of today. Get the teachers to teach, and forget about the computers,cell phones, and all the other gadgets which are used to so called make it easier. Had a recent high school grad tell me I was wrong on figuring out a sale of a few items. I sold nine items for six dollars. Grad told me I sold each item for a dollar fifty. I said, if I sold nine items for a dollar, I would have collected nine dollars. He whipped out his cell phone and used it research his figures and he said he was right Must be the new math. nuff said.

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#1354856 --- 07/23/12 07:48 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Spanky]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Yes, I remember having classes of 30 students or so too. I've always thought that the differencdee today is the environment the average student is growing in today, versus say forty years ago. Maybe students aren't being forced to do their homework by their parents today? Maybe they're not getting as much sleep as students did years ago? I don't think the problem is cell phones because I'm pretty sure they aren't allowed to be used in classes.
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1354886 --- 07/23/12 01:33 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Spanky]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
I can see where you and Josephus are coming from, Spanky. Like both of you, my classes were in the range of 25-35 (it was more varied in high school, depending on the subject). I would say it was an average school system, but not overly large like some of the schools in metropolitan areas -- there were 262 kids in my HS graduating class. All the kids in my classes were able to read and write proficiently, and do basic math, but I can't that was true for all 262 of us as we left high school. There were still a number who still couldn't string together five sentences in a paragraph to make a coherent statement without any spelling or grammatical errors. Some still had difficulty grasping the concept of percentages. Some still had difficulty reading (or at least didn't read much above the 8th or 9th grade level).

I can't see any reason why kids today are any less intelligent than they were 50, 60, or even 100 years ago. Nor do I see any reason to think that teachers are less intelligent or less competent either. In my high school, we had a principal, vice principal, two or three guidance counselors, a school psychologist (who also served the elementary and junior high schools) and a school nurse. Other than that, I don't remember a plethora of aides, teaching assistants, and administrative personnel, but perhaps they weren't in my classes or I just wasn't aware of what was going on behind the scenes. Nevertheless, I have to agree that our school systems have gotten much more complex in their efforts to somehow make every student "college ready."

Our school systems are still turning out really smart and capable students (the ones at the top of the curve) as well as less than capable students (those at the left side of the curve). What's happened, I think, is that over time, the curve has skewed to the left. The "average" student today doesn't match up to his/her counterpart of 50 to 60 years ago in terms of academic achievement or knowledge. I believe that the causes for that shift don't lie in student ability or teacher competence or lack of resources. I think it has more to do with societal changes and a shift in values in our society.

Education is not valued the same way it was in years past. Instead, we have allowed money and fame to become the paramount goals for kids, and the role models for our kids seem to be those who are famous or make the most money. Never mind that many of those celebrities may be ignorant, lack the reasoning skills or moral/ethical standards of a gerbil -- what seems to be important that they make millions of dollars, without any discernible benefit of an education. To be sure, this doesn't apply to all celebs, but it applies to enough that kids can reasonably question why they should work hard and study.

In our society, football coaches are paid more than university presidents. Athletic budgets are higher than academic departments. I remember reading once that Mickey Mantle never earned more than $100,000 a year. Compare that to today where hundreds of professional athletes (MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, etc) have multi million dollar contracts. To be sure, they are highly skilled, but why does our society place more value on being able to do something with a ball than scientific research? I also remember seeing Rosie O'Donnell on a game show a number of years ago. She was asked what country was Great Britain's opponent in the Falklands War. I can understand that she didn't know it was Argentina, but when she was told the correct answer she laughed and said "I don't even know what continent that's on!" The audience cheered. Such a celebration of ignorance is all too commonplace in our society.

And so, the reason "Johnny Can't Read" may have less to do with the kids, the school system, the methods used, the teachers, etc., than our society itself. As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

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#1354889 --- 07/23/12 01:42 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
MeRightYouWrong Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 1597
Loc: Mountain of Truth
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
I can't see any reason why kids today are any less intelligent than they were 50, 60, or even 100 years ago.

Can you see how kids today watch more television, have both parents working full-time jobs that makes for less time to do the chores at home, how autism and other conditions are more prevalent, how an alarming percentage of kids are on "medication"?

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#1354895 --- 07/23/12 02:48 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: MeRightYouWrong]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
I don't think any of the things you describe make kids less intelligent. They may have an effect on education and the learning process, however. The reason kids watch more television now than they did 50-60 years ago is simple -- there are more TVs available in every household, and more selection (where I grew up we could only get one channel clearly). Both parents working detracts from kids development, but why do both parents work? I would submit it's to have more money so that more can be spent to gratify our materialistic impulses. Households have more stuff, more equipment, more cars, and therefore a family has to have more money to support it. Chores have become less labor intensive -- dishwashers, power mowers (heck, lawn services) have become more prevalent as household income rises. (I agree that it's at the expense of some important lessons.) The whole subject of what the effect technology (TV, computers, internet, smart phones, etc) has had on the family and kids development is worthy of another thread.

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#1354933 --- 07/23/12 05:47 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: MeRightYouWrong]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: MeRightYouWrong
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
I can't see any reason why kids today are any less intelligent than they were 50, 60, or even 100 years ago.

Can you see how kids today watch more television, have both parents working full-time jobs that makes for less time to do the chores at home, how autism and other conditions are more prevalent, how an alarming percentage of kids are on "medication"?

I would agree that more kids are probably on medication today. I have no idea if autism is more prevalent today though. However, I think kids watched as much TV in my day (some 40-45 years ago) as they do today. Also, from the seventh grade on, both of my parents were working full time jobs. I think that was probably towards the beginning of what became the two paycheck family.
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1354976 --- 07/24/12 01:17 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
There used to be minimum IQ requirements for public schools, and special education students attended different schools. Even so, I went to a private school, and I clearly recall students stumbling painfully while reading aloud in class.
"1970s
The U.S. Courts finally restricted the use of IQ testing in public schools. The IQ testing was dividing students and this was not allowing for an equal education. (Barnes)"


Anyway...yeahhh...vouchers....

Marcus Winters is one of those researchers who always advocates for vouchers. He often writes opinion pieces in places like the New York Post and the Wall Street Journal, extolling the virtues of vouchers and private management.

In this article in Rupert Murdoch’s New York Post, Winters explains why New York should follow the example of Florida and give vouchers to special education students.

Winters extols Florida’s McKay Scholarship program but fails to mention that it became immersed in scandal after a Miami newspaper wrote an expose.

The schools receiving vouchers are unregulated; the state never inquires about their curriculum or their facilities.

A brief excerpt from the story in the Miami New Times:

While the state played the role of the blind sugar daddy, here is what went on at South Florida Prep, according to parents, students, teachers, and public records: Two hundred students were crammed into ever-changing school locations, including a dingy strip-mall space above a liquor store and down the hall from an Asian massage parlor. Eventually, fire marshals and sheriffs condemned the “campus” as unfit for habitation, pushing the student body into transience in church foyers and public parks.

The teachers were mostly in their early 20s. An afternoon for the high school students might consist of watching a VHS tape of a 1976Laurence Fishburne blaxploitation flick —Cornbread, Earl and Me — and then summarizing the plot. In one class session, a middle school teacher recommended putting “mother nature” — a woman’s period — into spaghetti sauce to keep a husband under thumb. “We had no materials,” says Nicolas Norris, who taught music despite the lack of a single instrument. “There were no teacher edition books. There was no curriculum.”

In May 2009, two vanloads of South Florida Prep kids were on the way back from a field trip to Orlando when one of the vehicles flipped along Florida’s Turnpike. A teacher and an 18-year-old senior were killed. Turns out another student, age 17 and possessing only a learner’s permit, was behind the wheel and had fallen asleep. The families of the deceased and an insurance company are suing Brown for negligence.

Meanwhile, Brown openly used a form of corporal punishment that has been banned in Miami-Dade and Broward schools for three decades. Four former students and the music teacher Norris recall that the principal frequently paddled students for misbehaving. In a complaint filed with the DOE in April 2009, one parent rushed to the school to stop Brown from taking a paddle to her son’s behind.

The reporter described the McKay Scholarship program as: “…a perverse science experiment, using disabled school kids as lab rats and funded by nine figures in taxpayer cash: Dole out millions to anybody calling himself an educator. Don’t regulate curriculum or even visit campuses to see where the money is going. For optimal results, do this in Florida, America’s fraud capital.”

The program has doled out over $1 billion in public funds to more than 1,000 schools. What does deregulation mean? “There is no accreditation requirement for McKay schools. And without curriculum regulations, the DOE can’t yank back its money if students are discovered to be spending their days filling out workbooks, watching B-movies, or frolicking in the park. In one “business management” class, students shook cans for coins on street corners.”

Because the schools are private — although accepting publicly funded vouchers — the DOE is not allowed to monitor curriculum. For the same reason, the department claims it can’t bar corporal punishment, despite parents’ complaints that children are being paddled.

Marcus Winters’ colleague Jay Greene at the University of Arkansas defended the McKay Scholarship program by pointing to an anecdote about a child in a public school special-education program in Alabama who was maltreated. Greene disparaged the publication, implying that it is an untrustworthy source, not to be taken seriously. But the writer of the story, Gus Garcia-Roberts was honored by the Society of Professional Journalists, which named him as first-place winner of its Sigma Delta Chi award for public service journalism for a reporter at a non-daily publication.

Unlike Greene’s defense of the McKay Scholarships, the story in the Miami New Times was not an anecdote about the mistreatment of one child. It was a story about a system in which many children are mistreated, the result of a two-month investigation into a state-funded program that has no standards for the schools that receive the state’s most vulnerable children.

Six months after the original story, the newspaper wrote a follow-up. Florida legislators, including sponsors of the vouchers for special education, have vowed to reform the program. “Sen. Stephen Wise, a Jacksonville Republican who originally co-sponsored the program, declared our findings “appalling… I’m amazed that there’s not more scrutiny about where the money is going.” The program’s progenitor, former Florida Senate President McKay, a Republican from Bradenton, concluded: “Somebody better get off their ass and fix those problems.“

Meanwhile, New York legislators need to do something to reform the state’s privatized program of special education for preschoolers. Just weeks ago, the New York Times published an expose about the fraud and corruption in that expensive, scandal-ridden boondoggle.


Edited by twocats (07/24/12 03:11 AM)
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1355044 --- 07/24/12 01:34 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
I can't say that there aren't some teachers like the ones you describe, but let's face it -- there are less than competent, poorly motivated people in just about any occupation.


the less competent ones are let go in other jobs but not the teachers
just hire more teachers and assistants

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#1355045 --- 07/24/12 01:38 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: BigRed]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: BigRed
The fact of the matter is that too many of the people who go into teaching do it for summers off and good benefits. And the free time it gives them to post here while sitting in class.


not good benefits
overly generous benefits without any job performance
job security

just think how much time could be devoted to the students if the teacher spent the time teaching the children and not posting here?

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#1355101 --- 07/24/12 06:32 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: bluezone

just think how much time could be devoted to the students if the teacher spent the time teaching the children and not posting here?

That was a fairly asinine comment. How do you know she isn't posting strictly off hours on her own time? I wonder how much more effective you might be at your job if you weren't posting here? \:o
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1355107 --- 07/24/12 06:45 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
LOL!!! Of course I post only on my own time--jeesh! Too funny!
It's summer, remember? That time of year when we get 5 months off.
(sarcasm intended)
\:D
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1355273 --- 07/25/12 02:10 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Josephus
How do you know she isn't posting strictly off hours on her own time?


she should be preparing for the next day/week

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#1355274 --- 07/25/12 02:13 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats
It's summer, remember? That time of year when we get 5 months off.


you get far more than all others
and yet the student performance is still suffering

control board to step in and open up the contracts

12 months of 'work', cuts in salary, large cuts in healthcare, 401k conversion

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#1355278 --- 07/25/12 02:18 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Josephus
How do you know she isn't posting strictly off hours on her own time?


she should be preparing for the next day/week

Months? LOL!

Do you work for your company in your time off?
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1355281 --- 07/25/12 02:29 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Josephus
How do you know she isn't posting strictly off hours on her own time?


she should be preparing for the next day/week

Months? LOL!



thought during the school year she said she spends much time after 'work' preparing for the next day/week?

thought she said she spends all summer preparing for the upcoming year?

not reflected in the student performance


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#1355286 --- 07/25/12 03:04 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
I believe she is paid for a nine month school year, not twelve months (twocats can clarify that one, if she wished to). I don't think the teachers go back until late August, unless she is teaching summer school of course.

Again... do you work for your company in your time off?
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1355298 --- 07/25/12 03:45 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
DeadDave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/11
Posts: 593
Loc: 6 feet under
Originally Posted By: twocat

s
LOL!!! Of course I post only on my own time--jeesh! Roo funny!
It's summer, remember? That time of year when we get 5 months off.
(sarcasm intended)
\:D
you should be picking trash up along the highway in the summer.

Top
#1355323 --- 07/25/12 05:22 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: DeadDave]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: DeadDave
Originally Posted By: twocat

s
LOL!!! Of course I post only on my own time--jeesh! Roo funny!
It's summer, remember? That time of year when we get 5 months off.
(sarcasm intended)
\:D
you should be picking trash up along the highway in the summer.

I believe that's your job as part of the rent you pay to the county for room and board.
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

Top
#1355338 --- 07/25/12 06:51 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: Josephus
I believe she is paid for a nine month school year, not twelve months (twocats can clarify that one, if she wished to). I don't think the teachers go back until late August, unless she is teaching summer school of course.

Again... do you work for your company in your time off?


I don't do summer school anymore. In our district, we are considered 10 month employees. I do committee and curriculum work in the summer. It's not every day, obviously.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

Top
#1355431 --- 07/26/12 02:42 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Josephus
I believe she is paid for a nine month school year, not twelve months


a full years pay that is well above average for only 9 months of work

whodathunk

she still has not posted those other jobs she says exist that offer pensions and healthcare overly generous as hers

Top
#1355444 --- 07/26/12 04:02 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: bluezone

a full years pay that is well above average for only 9 months of work

What part of 10 month employee aren't you grasping?
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1355822 --- 07/27/12 08:55 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
The 2 best reasons to become a teacher re July and August. \:\)



"No other high performing nation in the world is taking this approach. And don't kid yourself - when we adjust for degree of poverty American public schools perform as well as those in any advanced nation, but we rank 34th (out of 35) in degree of poverty among nations participating in international comparisons such as PISA."


Do you REALLY think online charter schools are the answer?
byteacherkenFollow

Many of the so-called "reformers" and many of their allies among Republican governors and legislators seem to - after all, that is why they have been pushing this particular approach for a number years.

If you have any interest in this topic, I am going to strongly urge you to read a just-released policy brief from the National Education Policy Center. Titled Understanding and Improving Full-Time Virtual Schools, and has a subtitle which reads "A Study of Student Characteristics, School Finance, and School Performance in Schools Operated by K12 Inc.: The authors are Gary Miron, a professor at Western Michigan University, and Jessica L. Urschel, a doctoral student at the University. K12 Inc. is the nation's largest operator of online charter schools, and is controversial enough that New Jersey, whose governor Chris Christie has been actively involved in undermining public education in that state, just postponed acting on a request from K12 to open a charter in that state.

I have not had time to thoroughly examine the report, as I was offline for most of yesterday. It is formally being present today at the annual meeting of the American Association of School Administrators, where Dr. Miron will debate Dr. Susan Patrick, president and CEO of the International Association for K–12 Online Learning.

Below the fold I am going to offer a few of the key points of the study, assisted in part by a press release from Kevin Welnar who is the Director of NEPC and whom some here heard when he was on an education panel at NN11 in Minneapolis.

According to Miron, K12 Inc. schools generally operate on less public revenue, but they have considerable cost savings. They devote minimal or no resources to facilities, operations, and transportation. These schools also have more students per teacher and pay less for teacher salaries and benefits than brick-and-mortar schools.

Thus the lower overhead costs allow an opportunity for a substantial profit margin. This is important, because K12 is a for-profit entity, founded by William Bennett, who was Secretary of Education under Ronald Reagan, and Michael Milken, who went to prison for his financial shenanigans at Drexel Burnham but somehow managed to keep a substantial portion of his ill-gotten gains.

Turning to the report itself, some key information from the Executive Summary:

Analysis of K12 Student Characteristics
K12 Inc. virtual schools enroll approximately the same percentages of black students but substantially more white students and fewer Hispanic students relative to public schools in the states in which the company operates. Because K12 schools generally enroll students without regard to school district boundaries, such same-state comparisons are the most useful.
On average, 39.9% of K12 students qualify for free or reduced-price lunch, compared with 47.2% for the same-state comparison group.
K12 virtual schools enroll a slightly smaller proportion of students with disabilities than schools in their states and in the nation as a whole (9.4% for K12 schools, 11.5% for same-state comparisons, and 13.1% in the nation).
Students classified as English language learners are significantly under-represented in K12 schools; on average the K12 schools enroll 0.3% ELL students compared with 13.8% in the same-state comparison group and 9.6% in the nation.
Most K12 schools serve students from grades Kindergarten to 12; however, K12’s enrollment is greatest in the middle school grades. Enrollment decreases sharply for the high school grades.
The Executive Summary also provides a great deal of information about the operational costs and expenditure of K12 and the performance of its students, which usually falls behind that of the parallel public schools from which it draws. While it is true that K12 receives less per student than the parallel public school, this is mor than offset by the much higher student-teacher ration: in this New York Times piece from last year provides some information from some other parallel on-line charter organizations, with teacher-student ratios of 35-1 and up, depending upon the amount of money received per students from public funding. High school teachers at some of these "schools" handled as many as 250 students - here I note that I taught 6 rather than the usual 5 sections at a high school, and in my worst year I had only 192 students. The Times article, which used some information from this report before it was released, is also well worth reading. I quote the following from there:
Some teachers at K12 schools said they felt pressured to pass students who did little work. Teachers have also questioned why some students who did no class work were allowed to remain on school rosters, potentially allowing the company to continue receiving public money for them. State auditors found that the K12-run Colorado Virtual Academy counted about 120 students for state reimbursement whose enrollment could not be verified or who did not meet Colorado residency requirements. Some had never logged in.
“What we’re talking about here is the financialization of public education,” said Alex Molnar, a research professor at the University of Colorado Boulder School of Education who is affiliated with the education policy center. “These folks are fundamentally trying to do to public education what the banks did with home mortgages.”

Read that last sentence again, carefully.
What is happening with this move to for-profit online charters will be as destructive of public education and real learning as what happened to our economy as a result of the securitization and related activities of the mortgage market that came close to collapse the economy of much of the developed world, and whose impact is still having horrendous effects around the world on the ability of governments from national to local levels to continue to provide the public services that undergirded the very wealth of those economies.

The report can be freely downloaded. I was asked to help draw attention to it.

The material in the brief has been through a rigorous peer-review process. It relies on publicly available information, including some from the Federal government and other studies that have been done on this material.

Let me end with the three paragraphs of the conclusion, after which I will offer a few remarks of my own.

With the rapid expansion of full-time virtual schools, and with the outsized political involvement of key companies that aim to extend market share, the world of online learning is becoming increasingly controversial. Aside from proclamations of politicians and advocates, claims that full-time virtual school are working are not substantiated by empirical evidence. This report reviewed an array of publicly available performance indicators for schools operated by K12 Inc. and all of these indicators indicate weak performance.
While we share the excitement of new technologies and the potential these have to improve communication, teacher effectiveness, and learning, we remain convinced that policymakers should embrace these schools only after piloting and thoroughly vetting this new model for schooling.

Although this report is modest in scope, we hope that the findings will encourage policymakers to act more cautiously in the political arena, where companies such as K12 Inc. apparently exert considerable influence. Also, we hope this study will cause researchers, educators, and others to look more closely at full-time virtual schools. To truly understand productivity, one needs sound evidence of outcomes and an accurate understanding of inputs such as characteristics of students entering the school, and public monies received and spent by the school.83 Though this report focuses only on a single provider of virtual schools, it is our hope that its description of evidence from diverse public sources on inputs and outcomes has helped to further our understanding of the potential and limits of full-time virtual schools. We also hope this report can inform policies that will improve this new model of schooling and help to ensure that full-time virtual schools better serve students and the public school system as a whole.

I have no trouble with exploring alternative ways of doing education. I believe these can be achieved without the profit motive that seems to be behind so much of what is unfortunately given the label of "reform." It is change - we are moving from seeing education as a public good that should be provided to benefit society as a whole, keeping the relationship between costs and benefits independent of a profit motive, to a model in which the main drivers are ideology (including the suppose magic of the free market system) and greed. Increasingly the various aspects of "reform" involve spending money on things not always essential to real learning but which carry potential windfall profits to outside groups whose interest is primarily financial - these include testing companies, hardware and software manufactures, curriculum and training providers, consultants, as well as those whose involvement comes from an interest in making money and is often not accompanied by any real experience in public school educational settings. Because certain students cost more to teach - those with disabilities, those from impoverished backgrounds, those still learning English - operators of for-profit schools often do their best not to accept such students into their schools. There is little oversight of many of the institutions, and even some that are supposedly non-profit pay ridiculous high salaries to their administrators and operators when one considers the numbers of students they serve and compare those salaries to administrators in public school systems. Thus even though officially non-profit those involved with many charters are effectively transferring public funds to their own pockets without incurring the operational costs imposed upon public schools.
No other high performing nation in the world is taking this approach. And don't kid yourself - when we adjust for degree of poverty American public schools perform as well as those in any advanced nation, but we rank 34th (out of 35) in degree of poverty among nations participating in international comparisons such as PISA.

This examination of the nation's largest on-line charter operator is important because it demonstrates the lack of evidence that the move to online charters improves the educational outcomes of the students who participate in them, even by the very flawed approach of relying upon scores on standardized tests.

If you have any interest in education, I urge you to examine this report.

If you are in a state considering expansion of online charters, try to get those involved in making the decisions, including state legislatures, and those who will be affected, including parent groups, and those whose responsibility it is to inform and help interpret for the rest of us (the media which far too often does a horrible job), to read and understand this report.

Thanks for reading this post.

ORIGINALLY POSTED TO TEACHERKEN ON WED JUL 18, 2012 AT 04:14 AM PDT.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

Top
#1355823 --- 07/27/12 08:55 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
The 2 best reasons to become a teacher are July and August. ;\)



"No other high performing nation in the world is taking this approach. And don't kid yourself - when we adjust for degree of poverty American public schools perform as well as those in any advanced nation, but we rank 34th (out of 35) in degree of poverty among nations participating in international comparisons such as PISA."


Do you REALLY think online charter schools are the answer?
byteacherkenFollow

Many of the so-called "reformers" and many of their allies among Republican governors and legislators seem to - after all, that is why they have been pushing this particular approach for a number years.

If you have any interest in this topic, I am going to strongly urge you to read a just-released policy brief from the National Education Policy Center. Titled Understanding and Improving Full-Time Virtual Schools, and has a subtitle which reads "A Study of Student Characteristics, School Finance, and School Performance in Schools Operated by K12 Inc.: The authors are Gary Miron, a professor at Western Michigan University, and Jessica L. Urschel, a doctoral student at the University. K12 Inc. is the nation's largest operator of online charter schools, and is controversial enough that New Jersey, whose governor Chris Christie has been actively involved in undermining public education in that state, just postponed acting on a request from K12 to open a charter in that state.

I have not had time to thoroughly examine the report, as I was offline for most of yesterday. It is formally being present today at the annual meeting of the American Association of School Administrators, where Dr. Miron will debate Dr. Susan Patrick, president and CEO of the International Association for K–12 Online Learning.

Below the fold I am going to offer a few of the key points of the study, assisted in part by a press release from Kevin Welnar who is the Director of NEPC and whom some here heard when he was on an education panel at NN11 in Minneapolis.

According to Miron, K12 Inc. schools generally operate on less public revenue, but they have considerable cost savings. They devote minimal or no resources to facilities, operations, and transportation. These schools also have more students per teacher and pay less for teacher salaries and benefits than brick-and-mortar schools.

Thus the lower overhead costs allow an opportunity for a substantial profit margin. This is important, because K12 is a for-profit entity, founded by William Bennett, who was Secretary of Education under Ronald Reagan, and Michael Milken, who went to prison for his financial shenanigans at Drexel Burnham but somehow managed to keep a substantial portion of his ill-gotten gains.

Turning to the report itself, some key information from the Executive Summary:

Analysis of K12 Student Characteristics
K12 Inc. virtual schools enroll approximately the same percentages of black students but substantially more white students and fewer Hispanic students relative to public schools in the states in which the company operates. Because K12 schools generally enroll students without regard to school district boundaries, such same-state comparisons are the most useful.
On average, 39.9% of K12 students qualify for free or reduced-price lunch, compared with 47.2% for the same-state comparison group.
K12 virtual schools enroll a slightly smaller proportion of students with disabilities than schools in their states and in the nation as a whole (9.4% for K12 schools, 11.5% for same-state comparisons, and 13.1% in the nation).
Students classified as English language learners are significantly under-represented in K12 schools; on average the K12 schools enroll 0.3% ELL students compared with 13.8% in the same-state comparison group and 9.6% in the nation.
Most K12 schools serve students from grades Kindergarten to 12; however, K12’s enrollment is greatest in the middle school grades. Enrollment decreases sharply for the high school grades.
The Executive Summary also provides a great deal of information about the operational costs and expenditure of K12 and the performance of its students, which usually falls behind that of the parallel public schools from which it draws. While it is true that K12 receives less per student than the parallel public school, this is mor than offset by the much higher student-teacher ration: in this New York Times piece from last year provides some information from some other parallel on-line charter organizations, with teacher-student ratios of 35-1 and up, depending upon the amount of money received per students from public funding. High school teachers at some of these "schools" handled as many as 250 students - here I note that I taught 6 rather than the usual 5 sections at a high school, and in my worst year I had only 192 students. The Times article, which used some information from this report before it was released, is also well worth reading. I quote the following from there:
Some teachers at K12 schools said they felt pressured to pass students who did little work. Teachers have also questioned why some students who did no class work were allowed to remain on school rosters, potentially allowing the company to continue receiving public money for them. State auditors found that the K12-run Colorado Virtual Academy counted about 120 students for state reimbursement whose enrollment could not be verified or who did not meet Colorado residency requirements. Some had never logged in.
“What we’re talking about here is the financialization of public education,” said Alex Molnar, a research professor at the University of Colorado Boulder School of Education who is affiliated with the education policy center. “These folks are fundamentally trying to do to public education what the banks did with home mortgages.”

Read that last sentence again, carefully.
What is happening with this move to for-profit online charters will be as destructive of public education and real learning as what happened to our economy as a result of the securitization and related activities of the mortgage market that came close to collapse the economy of much of the developed world, and whose impact is still having horrendous effects around the world on the ability of governments from national to local levels to continue to provide the public services that undergirded the very wealth of those economies.

The report can be freely downloaded. I was asked to help draw attention to it.

The material in the brief has been through a rigorous peer-review process. It relies on publicly available information, including some from the Federal government and other studies that have been done on this material.

Let me end with the three paragraphs of the conclusion, after which I will offer a few remarks of my own.

With the rapid expansion of full-time virtual schools, and with the outsized political involvement of key companies that aim to extend market share, the world of online learning is becoming increasingly controversial. Aside from proclamations of politicians and advocates, claims that full-time virtual school are working are not substantiated by empirical evidence. This report reviewed an array of publicly available performance indicators for schools operated by K12 Inc. and all of these indicators indicate weak performance.
While we share the excitement of new technologies and the potential these have to improve communication, teacher effectiveness, and learning, we remain convinced that policymakers should embrace these schools only after piloting and thoroughly vetting this new model for schooling.

Although this report is modest in scope, we hope that the findings will encourage policymakers to act more cautiously in the political arena, where companies such as K12 Inc. apparently exert considerable influence. Also, we hope this study will cause researchers, educators, and others to look more closely at full-time virtual schools. To truly understand productivity, one needs sound evidence of outcomes and an accurate understanding of inputs such as characteristics of students entering the school, and public monies received and spent by the school.83 Though this report focuses only on a single provider of virtual schools, it is our hope that its description of evidence from diverse public sources on inputs and outcomes has helped to further our understanding of the potential and limits of full-time virtual schools. We also hope this report can inform policies that will improve this new model of schooling and help to ensure that full-time virtual schools better serve students and the public school system as a whole.

I have no trouble with exploring alternative ways of doing education. I believe these can be achieved without the profit motive that seems to be behind so much of what is unfortunately given the label of "reform." It is change - we are moving from seeing education as a public good that should be provided to benefit society as a whole, keeping the relationship between costs and benefits independent of a profit motive, to a model in which the main drivers are ideology (including the suppose magic of the free market system) and greed. Increasingly the various aspects of "reform" involve spending money on things not always essential to real learning but which carry potential windfall profits to outside groups whose interest is primarily financial - these include testing companies, hardware and software manufactures, curriculum and training providers, consultants, as well as those whose involvement comes from an interest in making money and is often not accompanied by any real experience in public school educational settings. Because certain students cost more to teach - those with disabilities, those from impoverished backgrounds, those still learning English - operators of for-profit schools often do their best not to accept such students into their schools. There is little oversight of many of the institutions, and even some that are supposedly non-profit pay ridiculous high salaries to their administrators and operators when one considers the numbers of students they serve and compare those salaries to administrators in public school systems. Thus even though officially non-profit those involved with many charters are effectively transferring public funds to their own pockets without incurring the operational costs imposed upon public schools.
No other high performing nation in the world is taking this approach. And don't kid yourself - when we adjust for degree of poverty American public schools perform as well as those in any advanced nation, but we rank 34th (out of 35) in degree of poverty among nations participating in international comparisons such as PISA.

This examination of the nation's largest on-line charter operator is important because it demonstrates the lack of evidence that the move to online charters improves the educational outcomes of the students who participate in them, even by the very flawed approach of relying upon scores on standardized tests.

If you have any interest in education, I urge you to examine this report.

If you are in a state considering expansion of online charters, try to get those involved in making the decisions, including state legislatures, and those who will be affected, including parent groups, and those whose responsibility it is to inform and help interpret for the rest of us (the media which far too often does a horrible job), to read and understand this report.

Thanks for reading this post.

ORIGINALLY POSTED TO TEACHERKEN ON WED JUL 18, 2012 AT 04:14 AM PDT.


Edited by twocats (07/27/12 08:55 PM)
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

Top
#1355890 --- 07/28/12 03:25 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

Top
#1355894 --- 07/28/12 03:38 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats
when we adjust for degree of poverty American public schools


make sure you ask for double digit raises, more healthcare benefits and an even more generous pension which the taxpayers pay for

5-10 years and the taxpayers will not be able to fund your salaries or benefits

send in the control boards


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#1355895 --- 07/28/12 03:57 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Why teacher pension costs will keep rising
Thursday July 5, 2012 3:21 PM By E.J. McMahon

The closing bell on Wall Street last Friday also marked the end of the fiscal year for many public pension funds across the country, including the New York State Teachers' Retirement System (NYSTRS), which finances pensions promised to 420,000 active and retired professional educators working mainly for school districts outside New York City.

Like its counterparts, NYSTRS is heavily invested in publicly traded domestic corporate stocks, which make up 46 percent of its portfolio. As a result, the value of the pension fund's assets tends to move in the same direction as the S&P 500. The correlation isn’t precise; indeed, on average, the pension fund has outperformed the index. In general, however, a strong stock market equates to strong pension fund returns, and vice versa.

Last fall, NYSTRS was boasting of a “robust" return of 23.2 percent in fiscal 2011, when the S&P 500 gained 28.1 percent. But if the stock market's performance is any indication, fiscal 2012 wasn’t such a great year for the teachers' pension fund. During the 12 months ending June 29, the S&P 500 gained just 3.1 percent, excluding dividends. While the pension fund may have done better than that (it won’t get around to telling us until the fall), it seems unlikely, given the shaky state of global financial markets, that NYSTRS hit its return target of 8 percent in the fiscal year just ended. This is more bad news for the rest of us.

Even after a strong recovery in 2010 and 2011, and excluding a sub-par performance in 2012, the teacher pension fund’s average return on assets has been just 4.4 percent since 2000. This opened an enormous funding gap – which taxpayers have had to close.

Think of it this way: if NYSTRS had hit its 8 percent annual return target since the turn of the century, $100 in fund assets as of June 30, 2000, would have been worth $233 by June 30, 2011. The actual figure was $166. The pension fund’s choppy route to that mediocre return is depicted in the chart below.


Meanwhile, benefit payments have continued increasing at an average rate of 8 percent a year, more than doubling during the same period, according to NYSTRS’ annual financial reports. And this, in a nutshell, is why school districts’ pension costs have risen so much to 11.1 percent in 2012.


Ok, let’s get technical for a minute. A key factor in determining how close any pension plan comes to being fully funded is the discount rate used to calculate liabilities. This is different than the assumed rate of return; rather, the discount rate is just an expression of the cost of future liabilities today. And the higher the assumed discount rate, the less money needs to be set aside now to cover benefits promised for the future. Accounting rules dictate that corporate pension plans discount liabilities using the interest rate on low risk investments such as the yield on AAA-rated corporate bonds. That's typically 4 to 5 percent these days. By contrast, accounting standards for governments allow public pension funds to discount liabilities using the same high rate of return they hope to earn on their investments. That produces a trade-off -- pay less now, but more in the future if the goals are not met.

In a small step toward a more realistic standard, state Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli has lowered the rate-of-return assumption for the giant New York State and Local Retirement System to 7.5 percent, and New York City will soon go down to 7 percent, which is still high enough to have been compared by Mayor Bloomberg to an investment come-on from Bernie Madoff.

Wilshire Consulting, a respected firm that has done a lot of work in this area, projectsa median long-term return of 6.4 percent for state pension funds that are now assuming 8 percent. And some smart people on Wall Street aren’t optimistic about the short term, either. Goldman Sachs, for one, recently turned quite bearish, adjusting its 12-month target for the S&P 500 to 1350 -- 1 percent below Friday's close.

Last fall, the teachers’ pension fund board approved an important (but widely overlooked) update to its actual assumptions, which will affect pension costs going forward. The most important change was no change at all: as recommended by its actuary, the fund decided to stick with 8 percent. The explanation? This paragraph from the actuarial report (which is not posted online, unfortunately) is pretty much the extent of it:

"The key question is whether or not an 8.0% rate of return assumption continues to be a prudent estimate going forward. We believe it does, and do not recommend changing it at this time. It has certainly been a good estimate for the 20 years it has been in place. Logic dictates that just as we did not increase our assumption in the face of fantastic returns in the 1990s, we should not decrease it now after a poorly-returning decade."

In other words, contrary to a disclaimer that should be familiar to every investor, NYSTRS would have us believe that past performance does point to future results.

DiNapoli’s lowering of the the state and local government pension fund rate was based on an actuarial analysisthat, among other things, included 5,000 groupings of simulated returns for the pension fund over the next 30 years. The median return for those simulations was less than 7 percent—i.e., half came in higher, half lower--and there was just a 35 percent chance that the state pension fund would hit its newly reduced 7.5 percent target.

By contrast, the actuarial report for the teachers’ fund didn’t delve much into quantitative analysis of probabilities—or, for that matter, the issue of financial risk. It did significantly alter a few other assumptions affecting pension costs, though. For one thing, it said retired teachers are living longer, which would make pensions more expensive. On the other hand, it said, teachers also have been retiring a few years later, and their rate of salary growth has waned a bit. These trends would tend to bring down pension expenses.

The net result of all these factors—the 8 percent return assumption, longer life spans offset by later retirement, and slightly smaller salary hikes--is that the contribution rate collected from school districts in the fall of 2013 will be 11.5 to 12.5 percent of total teacher salaries, only slightly above the current rate. However, “this should NOT be interpreted to mean that the [employer contribution rate] has reached a plateau,” the teachers’ fund has warned school districts. “We anticipate continued future increases in the [rate] beyond this point.”

How big will those increases be? NYSTRS just won’t say. While the teacher pension fund is comfortable predicting asset returns 40 to 50 years into the future, it refuses to provide employers with useful guidance on where their pension costs might be headed within the next decade. As a result, school districts throughout the state are negotiating three to five-year teachers’ contracts without knowing how much more pensions might cost three to five years down the line.

In a December 2010 report, Josh Barro and I estimated that the contribution rate could more than double, reaching 25 percent by 2016 if the fund hit its return target in the meantime. Adjusting for the very large return in 2011, we still estimate the rate will peak at 17 percent of salaries.

In short, more misery is on the way – even as the relatively few newly hired teachers become vested in what are (for now) less expensive pension tiers created by the state in the last three years, which won’t yield significant savings for a decade. But while school districts complain that pensions are a state-mandated cost over which they have no control, they are not completely helpless – not as group, at any rate. A concerted effort by school boards to hold down salary increases could have a significant impact on long-term pension costs. How significant? Well, NYSTRS’ latest actuarial calculations dropped the assumed average salary increase from 6.51 percent to 5.61 percent a year. All by itself, the report said, this 0.9 percent reduction was enough to cut pension contribution rates by 1.61 percent of salary.

This doesn’t let the teachers’ pension fund off the hook, however. By refusing to recognize the real long-term cost of teacher pensions, and by refusing to issue long-term projections of annual required contributions, the teachers’ retirement system and its board are doing a disservice to taxpayers and retirees alike.

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#1355903 --- 07/28/12 05:40 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
twocats Offline
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Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
OMG! That's hilarious! \:D
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1355923 --- 07/28/12 07:28 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: twocats
OMG! That's hilarious! \:D


Sadly, it is not hilarious at all.

It really is a part of the problem.

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#1355946 --- 07/29/12 01:52 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: twocats
OMG! That's hilarious! \:D


Sadly, it is not hilarious at all.

It really is a part of the problem.

I think it's a huge part of the problem. I don't think you need to tell twocats this. She one of those who have to put up with it every morning in class, and then get questioned (or sometimes blamed)about why the student isn't doing well in his/her studies.
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#1355947 --- 07/29/12 01:53 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
Josephus Offline
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Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: twocats
OMG! That's hilarious! \:D

I posted it with you in mind. A bit close to the truth, eh? ;\)
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#1356129 --- 07/30/12 01:08 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: cwjga


Sadly, it is not hilarious at all.

It really is a part of the problem.

I think it's a huge part of the problem. I don't think you need to tell twocats this. She one of those who have to put up with it every morning in class, and then get questioned (or sometimes blamed)about why the student isn't doing well in his/her studies.


So where is the union to back up the teachers? To think that these parents did not exist years ago is pretty naive. Did teachers have more back-bone back then and did they have the courage and fortitude to put them in their place?
I will say it again, time for teachers to take control of their classrooms again. The union getting involved with that would be very worthwhile.

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#1356131 --- 07/30/12 01:44 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
And what happens if a teacher tries to assert physical control over a tantrum throwing brat in elementary school (or high school for that matter)? Lay so much as a finger or even threaten to touch such a child risks a personal law suit by the parents, administrative action (perhaps) dismissal by the school, and ridicule in the media. I'm firmly against corporal punishment, but schools, the courts, society, etc., needs to get a grip.

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#1356133 --- 07/30/12 02:25 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
And what happens if a teacher tries to assert physical control over a tantrum throwing brat in elementary school (or high school for that matter)? Lay so much as a finger or even threaten to touch such a child risks a personal law suit by the parents, administrative action (perhaps) dismissal by the school, and ridicule in the media. I'm firmly against corporal punishment, but schools, the courts, society, etc., needs to get a grip.


The conversation was about parents that have kids that fail then complain to teachers and blame them rather than getting on their kids.

Then again I guess I did open the gates when I mentioned that teachers need to take control of their classrooms.

Could you give some examples of dismissals of teachers for taking control of their classrooms? I have not seen a lot of that. And I am not a lawyer, but I would guess that teachers are shielded from personal lawsuits if the action was proper and happened during the performance of their jobs.

Anyways, until teacher s stop whining and start acting, and until the unions start backing them nothing will change. It will be the parents fault, it will be the fault of charter schools, and it will be everybody else’s fault.

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#1356138 --- 07/30/12 02:47 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats
OMG! That's hilarious! \:D


teachers excuse number 2817

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#1356139 --- 07/30/12 02:50 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Josephus
I think it's a huge part of the problem. I don't think you need to tell twocats this. She one of those who have to put up with it every morning in class, and then get questioned (or sometimes blamed)about why the student isn't doing well in his/her studies.


are you saying that every childs parents acts in this manner?

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#1356140 --- 07/30/12 02:55 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
It will be the parents fault, it will be the fault of charter schools, and it will be everybody else’s fault.


the teachers blame every aspect possible

their salary should be cut in half, their pensions converted to a 401k, and healthcare coverage reduced as student performance is well below average

odd that sylvan learning can 'teach' the children

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#1356152 --- 07/30/12 04:08 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Josephus
I think it's a huge part of the problem. I don't think you need to tell twocats this. She one of those who have to put up with it every morning in class, and then get questioned (or sometimes blamed)about why the student isn't doing well in his/her studies.


are you saying that every childs parents acts in this manner?

Certainly not, but I think its become more prevalent.
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#1356157 --- 07/30/12 04:23 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: cwjga
To think that these parents did not exist years ago is pretty naive. Did teachers have more back-bone back then and did they have the courage and fortitude to put them in their place?

I suspect that the problem is two-fold.

1. These days I suspect that both parents work, which was not the norm 50 years ago. And, I suspect that mothers (and in some case, fathers) are returning to work earlier than they had been years ago. A distracted or tired parent will affect the studies of their child.

2. Society has changed. It's now the "Me" generation, where everything is someone else's fault. It certainly isn't my little Joey's fault. There has to be another reason! ;\)

Of course, #2 can also apply to some teachers.

Then, of course, there are the problems that Cuzi Sedso laid out.

From my experience (I encounter teachers quite a bit in my work), most teachers are dedicated to their jobs. You can always spot the teachers very quickly who are doing their jobs well. The classes that are energized and grasp the material quickly have teachers that bothered to do pre-vist exercises before we ever see them. The teachers that don't prepare their classes... the class suffers and doesn't learn as much. Overall, I see much more of the former than the latter, and I suspect that it probably reflects how things go in the classroom. But if this isn't supported at home by parenting, the student will suffer.
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#1356175 --- 07/30/12 06:59 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
twocats Offline
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Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
The parents are getting that from the politicians and the media. When students don't pass tests, teachers are held solely accountable. It is even written into law now that teacher evaluations are based on STUDENT test scores, not just teacher instruction or performance. This translates to parents that teachers, not students are to blame for student test scores.
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#1356178 --- 07/30/12 07:06 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
Josephus Offline
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Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
I remember administrators actually sitting in class to evaluate teachers. Don't they do that anymore?
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#1356179 --- 07/30/12 07:18 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
They do that, but as part of the plan to demonize public schools and privatize the system, 40% of a teacher's evaluation score comes from test scores. I work in a primary school and a certain percentage of my evaluation will be based on the graduation rate of the district. Whether or not students graduate 10 years after the last time I teach them will have an impact on my evaluation.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1356184 --- 07/30/12 07:49 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
DeadDave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/11
Posts: 593
Loc: 6 feet under
Originally Posted By: twocats
They do that, but as part of the plan to demonize public schools and privatize the system, 40% of a teacher's evaluation score comes from test scores. I work in a primary school and a certain percentage of my evaluation will be based on the graduation rate of the district. Whether or not students graduate 10 years after the last time I teach them will have an impact on my evaluation.
Your evaluation doesn't effect your pay, what are u worried about? The only thing that matters... is u the teacher.

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#1356186 --- 07/30/12 08:08 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: DeadDave]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
I take pride in my performance. It matters to me.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1356188 --- 07/30/12 08:42 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7644
Originally Posted By: twocats
I take pride in my performance. It matters to me.
No kidding.

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#1356201 --- 07/30/12 09:59 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: ]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 5389
Loc: Malmö

CEOs of For-Profit Schools Make 26 Times More than Heads of Traditional Universities; Student Outcomes Many Times Worse

By Pat Garofalo | ThinkProgress
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2012

According to preliminary findings of an investigation by Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD), the ranking member of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, many for-profit colleges pay their executives based almost exclusively on corporate profitability, without taking into account student outcomes. Cummings’ office received documents from 13 for-profit schools, which showed just where the schools place their proirities:

The documents obtained during the course of this investigation indicate that the single most significant measure for determining executive compensation at these schools is corporate profitability, including factors such as operating income, earnings, profits, operating margins, earnings per share, net cash flow, and revenue. Companies use various combinations of these factors to determine the majority of executive compensation.

As discussed below, some companies provided no documents demonstrating links to student achievement when determining executive compensation, other companies provided documents with vague references to student achievement, and other companies provided documents that included specific compensation percentages linked to student performance measures. In all cases, however, the majority of compensation paid to company executives is based on measures relating to corporate profitability rather than student achievement.

As ThinkProgress has documented, predatory for-profit schools rely heavily on taxpayer dollars to produce revenue, yet leave many of their students buried in debt and without the education necessary to find a good job. They engage in aggressive marketing tactics, promising students employment opportunities that never materialize.

Meanwhile, CEOs of for-profit colleges make 26 times more in compensation than the heads of traditional universities. For instance, Strayer University CEO Robert Silberman was paid $41.9 million in 2009. (HT: Chris Kirkham)
_________________________
"Everything that has ever happened to us is there to make us stronger."
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#1356203 --- 07/30/12 10:14 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Josephus
I don't think you need to tell twocats this. She one of those who have to put up with it every morning in class, and then get questioned (or sometimes blamed)about why the student isn't doing well in his/her studies.


what does twocats get blamed for as she 'teaches' 5 year olds

the child did not color within in lines
the child did not sleep during nap time
...
...

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#1356205 --- 07/30/12 10:23 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats
When students don't pass tests, teachers are held solely accountable.


is your pay cut, your benefits reduced or you shown the door?
if not then you are not being held accountable

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#1356206 --- 07/30/12 10:27 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 5389
Loc: Malmö
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Josephus
I don't think you need to tell twocats this. She one of those who have to put up with it every morning in class, and then get questioned (or sometimes blamed)about why the student isn't doing well in his/her studies.


what does twocats get blamed for as she 'teaches' 5 year olds

the child did not color within in lines
the child did not sleep during nap time
...
...




Support evidence readily available.
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare

_________________________
"Everything that has ever happened to us is there to make us stronger."
-John Trudell


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#1356207 --- 07/30/12 10:29 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Josephus
You can always spot the teachers very quickly who are doing their jobs well. The classes that are energized and grasp the material quickly have teachers that bothered to do pre-vist exercises before we ever see them. The teachers that don't prepare their classes... the class suffers and doesn't learn as much.


if it is easy to see the poor performing teachers then eliminate them

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#1356209 --- 07/30/12 10:34 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Josephus
I don't think you need to tell twocats this. She one of those who have to put up with it every morning in class, and then get questioned (or sometimes blamed)about why the student isn't doing well in his/her studies.


what does twocats get blamed for as she 'teaches' 5 year olds

the child did not color within in lines
the child did not sleep during nap time
...
...

I'm not sure what grade twocats teaches, but she just mentioned graduation 10 years after she is teaching them. That would mean 2nd grade, which is age 7-8 years old.
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1356210 --- 07/30/12 10:35 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats
I work in a primary school and a certain percentage of my evaluation will be based on the graduation rate of the district. Whether or not students graduate 10 years after the last time I teach them will have an impact on my evaluation.


they should tie in your retirement pension and healthcare with the evaluations

the students do not pass then your pension and healthcare are completely cut

Top
#1356212 --- 07/30/12 10:37 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Josephus
I'm not sure what grade twocats teaches, but she just mentioned graduation 10 years after she is teaching them. That would mean 2nd grade, which is age 7-8 years old.


and what would twocats get blamed for?

the child did not know their numbers?
the child did not know their colors?

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#1356217 --- 07/30/12 10:45 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Josephus
I'm not sure what grade twocats teaches, but she just mentioned graduation 10 years after she is teaching them. That would mean 2nd grade, which is age 7-8 years old.


and what would twocats get blamed for?

the child did not know their numbers?
the child did not know their colors?

I have no idea what you were doing in the 2nd grade, but I was reading, doing mathematics, geography, ect. The last time I colored in school was in kintergarden.
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1356218 --- 07/30/12 10:46 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Teonan]
Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7644
Originally Posted By: Teonan

CEOs of For-Profit Schools Make 26 Times More than Heads of Traditional Universities; Student Outcomes Many Times Worse

By Pat Garofalo | ThinkProgress
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2012

According to preliminary findings of an investigation by Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD), the ranking member of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, many for-profit colleges pay their executives based almost exclusively on corporate profitability, without taking into account student outcomes. Cummings’ office received documents from 13 for-profit schools, which showed just where the schools place their proirities:

The documents obtained during the course of this investigation indicate that the single most significant measure for determining executive compensation at these schools is corporate profitability, including factors such as operating income, earnings, profits, operating margins, earnings per share, net cash flow, and revenue. Companies use various combinations of these factors to determine the majority of executive compensation.

As discussed below, some companies provided no documents demonstrating links to student achievement when determining executive compensation, other companies provided documents with vague references to student achievement, and other companies provided documents that included specific compensation percentages linked to student performance measures. In all cases, however, the majority of compensation paid to company executives is based on measures relating to corporate profitability rather than student achievement.

As ThinkProgress has documented, predatory for-profit schools rely heavily on taxpayer dollars to produce revenue, yet leave many of their students buried in debt and without the education necessary to find a good job. They engage in aggressive marketing tactics, promising students employment opportunities that never materialize.

Meanwhile, CEOs of for-profit colleges make 26 times more in compensation than the heads of traditional universities. For instance, Strayer University CEO Robert Silberman was paid $41.9 million in 2009. (HT: Chris Kirkham)
Are you and twocats jealous?

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#1356220 --- 07/30/12 10:47 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: twocats
I work in a primary school and a certain percentage of my evaluation will be based on the graduation rate of the district. Whether or not students graduate 10 years after the last time I teach them will have an impact on my evaluation.


they should tie in your retirement pension and healthcare with the evaluations

the students do not pass then your pension and healthcare are completely cut

It that's true, what should she be able to do to the student who continues to not do his/her homework, pay attention in class and put forth an effort? Teaching and Learning go hand-in-hand, after all. What should the repercussions be when she does her job and the student doesn't do his or hers?
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1356221 --- 07/30/12 10:48 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Here are some of the second grade writing standards:

Text Types and Purposes

W.2.1. Write opinion pieces in which they introduce the topic or book they are writing about, state an opinion, supply reasons that support the opinion, use linking words (e.g., because, and, also) to connect opinion and reasons, and provide a concluding statement or section.
W.2.2. Write informative/explanatory texts in which they introduce a topic, use facts and definitions to develop points, and provide a concluding statement or section.
W.2.3. Write narratives in which they recount a well-elaborated event or short sequence of events, include details to describe actions, thoughts, and feelings, use temporal words to signal event order, and provide a sense of closure.
Production and Distribution of Writing

W.2.4. (Begins in grade 3)
W.2.5. With guidance and support from adults and peers, focus on a topic and strengthen writing as needed by revising and editing.
W.2.6. With guidance and support from adults, use a variety of digital tools to produce and publish writing, including in collaboration with peers.
Research to Build and Present Knowledge

W.2.7. Participate in shared research and writing projects (e.g., read a number of books on a single topic to produce a report; record science observations).
W.2.8. Recall information from experiences or gather information from provided sources to answer a question.


Edited by twocats (07/30/12 10:52 PM)
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1356224 --- 07/30/12 10:51 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: Josephus

It that's true, what should she be able to do to the student who continues to not do his/her homework, pay attention in class and put forth an effort? Teaching and Learning go hand-in-hand, after all. What should the repercussions be when she does her job and the student doesn't do his or hers?


Teaching and learning go hand in hand. That is so true. You can't physically force a child to think, to listen, to remember. I can entertain, present, cajole, bribe, sing and dance, but some students will still struggle for a myriad of reasons.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1356229 --- 07/30/12 11:03 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Teonan]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Teonan

CEOs of For-Profit Schools Make 26 Times More than Heads of Traditional Universities; Student Outcomes Many Times Worse

By Pat Garofalo | ThinkProgress
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2012

According to preliminary findings of an investigation by Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD), the ranking member of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, many for-profit colleges pay their executives based almost exclusively on corporate profitability, without taking into account student outcomes. Cummings’ office received documents from 13 for-profit schools, which showed just where the schools place their proirities:

The documents obtained during the course of this investigation indicate that the single most significant measure for determining executive compensation at these schools is corporate profitability, including factors such as operating income, earnings, profits, operating margins, earnings per share, net cash flow, and revenue. Companies use various combinations of these factors to determine the majority of executive compensation.

As discussed below, some companies provided no documents demonstrating links to student achievement when determining executive compensation, other companies provided documents with vague references to student achievement, and other companies provided documents that included specific compensation percentages linked to student performance measures. In all cases, however, the majority of compensation paid to company executives is based on measures relating to corporate profitability rather than student achievement.

As ThinkProgress has documented, predatory for-profit schools rely heavily on taxpayer dollars to produce revenue, yet leave many of their students buried in debt and without the education necessary to find a good job. They engage in aggressive marketing tactics, promising students employment opportunities that never materialize.

Meanwhile, CEOs of for-profit colleges make 26 times more in compensation than the heads of traditional universities. For instance, Strayer University CEO Robert Silberman was paid $41.9 million in 2009. (HT: Chris Kirkham)


What does the pay of for-profit private schools and not-for profit private schools have to do with how kids do in primary education.

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#1356230 --- 07/30/12 11:05 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: twocats
Originally Posted By: Josephus

It that's true, what should she be able to do to the student who continues to not do his/her homework, pay attention in class and put forth an effort? Teaching and Learning go hand-in-hand, after all. What should the repercussions be when she does her job and the student doesn't do his or hers?


Teaching and learning go hand in hand. That is so true. You can't physically force a child to think, to listen, to remember. I can entertain, present, cajole, bribe, sing and dance, but some students will still struggle for a myriad of reasons.


I'm with you, but what about the students that could get it.

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#1356231 --- 07/30/12 11:05 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Look at the title of the thread...
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1356233 --- 07/30/12 11:06 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Josephus
I have no idea what you were doing in the 2nd grade, but I was reading, doing mathematics, geography, ect.


not in twocats class room
lucky if she can teach them to write their name

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#1356234 --- 07/30/12 11:07 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: twocats
Here are some of the second grade writing standards:

Text Types and Purposes

W.2.1. Write opinion pieces in which they introduce the topic or book they are writing about, state an opinion, supply reasons that support the opinion, use linking words (e.g., because, and, also) to connect opinion and reasons, and provide a concluding statement or section.
W.2.2. Write informative/explanatory texts in which they introduce a topic, use facts and definitions to develop points, and provide a concluding statement or section.
W.2.3. Write narratives in which they recount a well-elaborated event or short sequence of events, include details to describe actions, thoughts, and feelings, use temporal words to signal event order, and provide a sense of closure.
Production and Distribution of Writing

W.2.4. (Begins in grade 3)
W.2.5. With guidance and support from adults and peers, focus on a topic and strengthen writing as needed by revising and editing.
W.2.6. With guidance and support from adults, use a variety of digital tools to produce and publish writing, including in collaboration with peers.
Research to Build and Present Knowledge

W.2.7. Participate in shared research and writing projects (e.g., read a number of books on a single topic to produce a report; record science observations).
W.2.8. Recall information from experiences or gather information from provided sources to answer a question.


Ok, what is your point. Is it that your instructions are written for you and not for second or third graders.


Edited by cwjga (07/30/12 11:08 PM)

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#1356235 --- 07/30/12 11:08 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Josephus
I have no idea what you were doing in the 2nd grade, but I was reading, doing mathematics, geography, ect.


not in twocats class room
lucky if she can teach them to write their name

I didn't realize that you monitor her classroom activities.

Did you even bother to read what she posted not 20 minutes ago?
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1356236 --- 07/30/12 11:09 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats
Here are some of the second grade writing standards:

Text Types and Purposes

W.2.1. Write ...


and you have 9 months to 'teach' them
have school last 12 months instead of 9 months

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#1356238 --- 07/30/12 11:10 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: twocats
Look at the title of the thread...


The universities are already private. No need to privatize them.

So since you could not give an answer to the question I will ask Teo agian, what has an article about for-profit and not-for profit private universities have with the public schools that are failing our kids.



Edited by cwjga (07/30/12 11:13 PM)

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#1356239 --- 07/30/12 11:13 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: twocats
Here are some of the second grade writing standards:

Text Types and Purposes

W.2.1. Write opinion pieces in which they introduce the topic or book they are writing about, state an opinion, supply reasons that support the opinion, use linking words (e.g., because, and, also) to connect opinion and reasons, and provide a concluding statement or section.
W.2.2. Write informative/explanatory texts in which they introduce a topic, use facts and definitions to develop points, and provide a concluding statement or section.
W.2.3. Write narratives in which they recount a well-elaborated event or short sequence of events, include details to describe actions, thoughts, and feelings, use temporal words to signal event order, and provide a sense of closure.
Production and Distribution of Writing

W.2.4. (Begins in grade 3)
W.2.5. With guidance and support from adults and peers, focus on a topic and strengthen writing as needed by revising and editing.
W.2.6. With guidance and support from adults, use a variety of digital tools to produce and publish writing, including in collaboration with peers.
Research to Build and Present Knowledge

W.2.7. Participate in shared research and writing projects (e.g., read a number of books on a single topic to produce a report; record science observations).
W.2.8. Recall information from experiences or gather information from provided sources to answer a question.


Ok, what is your point. Is it that your instructions are written for you and not for second or third graders.

My point is it's not about coloring and reciting your abc's.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

Top
#1356240 --- 07/30/12 11:13 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Josephus
It that's true, what should she be able to do to the student who continues to not do his/her homework, pay attention in class and put forth an effort? Teaching and Learning go hand-in-hand, after all. What should the repercussions be when she does her job and the student doesn't do his or hers?


send in sylvan learning like they do now
strange that the children learn then

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#1356241 --- 07/30/12 11:14 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: twocats
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: twocats
Here are some of the second grade writing standards:

Text Types and Purposes

W.2.1. Write opinion pieces in which they introduce the topic or book they are writing about, state an opinion, supply reasons that support the opinion, use linking words (e.g., because, and, also) to connect opinion and reasons, and provide a concluding statement or section.
W.2.2. Write informative/explanatory texts in which they introduce a topic, use facts and definitions to develop points, and provide a concluding statement or section.
W.2.3. Write narratives in which they recount a well-elaborated event or short sequence of events, include details to describe actions, thoughts, and feelings, use temporal words to signal event order, and provide a sense of closure.
Production and Distribution of Writing

W.2.4. (Begins in grade 3)
W.2.5. With guidance and support from adults and peers, focus on a topic and strengthen writing as needed by revising and editing.
W.2.6. With guidance and support from adults, use a variety of digital tools to produce and publish writing, including in collaboration with peers.
Research to Build and Present Knowledge

W.2.7. Participate in shared research and writing projects (e.g., read a number of books on a single topic to produce a report; record science observations).
W.2.8. Recall information from experiences or gather information from provided sources to answer a question.


Ok, what is your point. Is it that your instructions are written for you and not for second or third graders.

My point is it's not about coloring and reciting your abc's.


Never thought it was. So good point. I guess.

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#1356243 --- 07/30/12 11:21 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Teonan]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Teonan
CEOs of for-profit colleges make 26 times more in compensation than the heads of traditional universities. For instance, Strayer University CEO Robert Silberman was paid $41.9 million in 2009. (HT: Chris Kirkham)


the indiviudals that chose to attend a college or university chose to go there

you are comparing apples and oranges

local school districts are not choice driven and are taxpayer funded



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#1356246 --- 07/30/12 11:26 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Josephus
It that's true, what should she be able to do to the student who continues to not do his/her homework, pay attention in class and put forth an effort? Teaching and Learning go hand-in-hand, after all. What should the repercussions be when she does her job and the student doesn't do his or hers?


send in sylvan learning like they do now
strange that the children learn then

Yeah... because the parents now have to pay beaucoup bucks! Why? Because their kid decided not to pay attention in class and the parents didn't make sure the homework was getting done, resulting in a drain on the parent's wallet. Strong motivator to make sure your kid doing the school work. Funny how money gets people's attention.
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1356247 --- 07/30/12 11:30 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Yeah... because the parents now have to pay beaucoup bucks! Why? Because their kid decided not to pay attention in class and the parents didn't make sure the homework was getting done, resulting in a drain on the parent's wallet.


the local school on the watch list by the state has brought in sylvan learning to teach the students
it is your tax dollar being spent

odd that sylvan can teach the children but the teacher can not
must not be the parents fault

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#1356248 --- 07/30/12 11:32 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 5389
Loc: Malmö
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: twocats
Look at the title of the thread...


The universities are already private. No need to privatize them.

So since you could not give an answer to the question I will ask Teo agian, what has an article about for-profit and not-for profit private universities have with the public schools that are failing our kids.




Simply making connections. The expansion of privatization from elementary to the college level is a cancerous trend.
_________________________
"Everything that has ever happened to us is there to make us stronger."
-John Trudell


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#1356252 --- 07/30/12 11:56 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Yeah... because the parents now have to pay beaucoup bucks! Why? Because their kid decided not to pay attention in class and the parents didn't make sure the homework was getting done, resulting in a drain on the parent's wallet.


the local school on the watch list by the state has brought in sylvan learning to teach the students
it is your tax dollar being spent

odd that sylvan can teach the children but the teacher can not
must not be the parents fault

You don't think some sort of fire might have been applied under the parent's butt because of this?

Seriously, I don't know the school or the reasons why Sylvan was brought in. I just know that the majority of teachers I run into in my job are good teachers and are professionals. You, on the other hand, seem to think that all teachers are all bad and should have their salaries reduced immediately.
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1356255 --- 07/31/12 12:14 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
The state required the district to provide extra tutoring. Sylvan hired Geneva teachers to provide the tutoring. There are no actual results available yet as to wether or not the extra time will result in an improvement in test scores. We'll see.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

Top
#1356267 --- 07/31/12 01:17 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7644
Originally Posted By: twocats
The state required the district to provide extra tutoring. Sylvan hired Geneva teachers to provide the tutoring. There are no actual results available yet as to wether whether or not the extra time will result in an improvement in test scores. We'll see.

Its the little thing in life that give you the most pleasure! \:\/

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#1356271 --- 07/31/12 01:19 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: ]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
Originally Posted By: twocats
The state required the district to provide extra tutoring. Sylvan hired Geneva teachers to provide the tutoring. There are no actual results available yet as to wether whether or not the extra time will result in an improvement in test scores. We'll see.

Its the little thing in life that give you the most pleasure! \:\/

Pot calling the kettle black time again. You can't even properly punctuate!
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

Top
#1356323 --- 07/31/12 10:50 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Teonan]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Teonan
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: twocats
Look at the title of the thread...


The universities are already private. No need to privatize them.

So since you could not give an answer to the question I will ask Teo agian, what has an article about for-profit and not-for profit private universities have with the public schools that are failing our kids.




Simply making connections. The expansion of privatization from elementary to the college level is a cancerous trend.



But that is my point. there is no connection. The article is not about the expansion of privatization. It is about for-profit vs not-for-profit schools. Both of which are private.

To go farther what give me some examples of elementary schools that have been privatized and are no longer public schools.

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#1356379 --- 07/31/12 02:46 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Josephus
You, on the other hand, seem to think that all teachers are all bad and should have their salaries reduced immediately.


did you see the report that teachers have doubled but the student population has only gone up slightly?

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#1356385 --- 07/31/12 03:02 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats
The state required the district to provide extra tutoring. Sylvan hired Geneva teachers to provide the tutoring. There are no actual results available yet as to wether or not the extra time will result in an improvement in test scores. We'll see.



Originally Posted By: twocats
Sylvan hired Geneva teachers to provide the tutoring. Some teachers I know who are doing the tutoring say it's nice to be paid MORE for what they used to do for no extra pay.


nothing like doing the same 'job' twice and getting paid even more

more taxpayer money

wonder why canandaigua does not have to do this?

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#1356412 --- 07/31/12 04:38 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Josephus
You, on the other hand, seem to think that all teachers are all bad and should have their salaries reduced immediately.


did you see the report that teachers have doubled but the student population has only gone up slightly?

Who hired them? School teachers or School Boards?
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1356414 --- 07/31/12 04:42 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: bluezone

wonder why canandaigua does not have to do this?

I'm not sure why things are different in Canandaigua, but I can put forth a theory. Canandaigua is a wealthy community, and I imagine they have a population with a higher average education than, say, Geneva does. Higher education may mean that parents value their children's education more and instil that in their children. They probably follow the progress of their children's education closer and are in closer contact with the teachers to get that information, and work to make corrections in their child's habits when necessary.

In short, due to their value of education Canandaigua parents may be more involved in their children's education than parents in cities like Geneva.

That's just a guess, but I suspect that I'm close to the truth.
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1356419 --- 07/31/12 05:33 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7644
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
Originally Posted By: twocats
The state required the district to provide extra tutoring. Sylvan hired Geneva teachers to provide the tutoring. There are no actual results available yet as to wether whether or not the extra time will result in an improvement in test scores. We'll see.

Its the little thing in life that give you the most pleasure! \:\/

Pot calling the kettle black time again. You can't even properly punctuate!
So what! You couldn't find a real job!!

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#1356426 --- 07/31/12 06:04 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: ]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
Originally Posted By: twocats
The state required the district to provide extra tutoring. Sylvan hired Geneva teachers to provide the tutoring. There are no actual results available yet as to wether whether or not the extra time will result in an improvement in test scores. We'll see.

Its the little thing in life that give you the most pleasure! \:\/

Pot calling the kettle black time again. You can't even properly punctuate!
So what! You couldn't find a real job!!

What does that comment have to do with your illiteracy?

I work, Harley. You're the guy that was only able find work work in the military (supposedly).
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1356430 --- 07/31/12 06:16 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
Fud P Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 507
Originally Posted By: Josephus


I work, Harley. You're the guy that was only able find work work in the military (supposedly).


His "work" in the military consisted of convincing the VA that he had an "illness". An illness that allows him to ride a motorcycle, so it can't be a physical malady. That leaves a MENTAL illness, which means he shouldn't be allowed to own firearms.

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#1356433 --- 07/31/12 06:47 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Fud P]
Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7644
Originally Posted By: Fud P
Originally Posted By: Josephus


I work, Harley. You're the guy that was only able find work work in the military (supposedly).


His "work" in the military consisted of convincing the VA that he had an "illness". An illness that allows him to ride a motorcycle, so it can't be a physical malady. That leaves a MENTAL illness, which means he shouldn't be allowed to own firearms.
Ahahahahahaha...stop whining, they filled your job at the jail with someone else.

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#1356435 --- 07/31/12 06:51 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: ]
Fud P Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 507
Hey Harley, did that 14 YO's daddy ever catch you?

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#1356436 --- 07/31/12 06:53 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7644
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
Originally Posted By: twocats
The state required the district to provide extra tutoring. Sylvan hired Geneva teachers to provide the tutoring. There are no actual results available yet as to wether whether or not the extra time will result in an improvement in test scores. We'll see.

Its the little thing in life that give you the most pleasure! \:\/

Pot calling the kettle black time again. You can't even properly punctuate!
So what! You couldn't find a real job!!

What does that comment have to do with your illiteracy?

I work, Harley. You're the guy that was only able find work work in the military (supposedly).
What can I say, I'm a product of our great public school system!

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#1356437 --- 07/31/12 06:54 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Fud P]
Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7644
Originally Posted By: Fud P
Hey Harley, did that 14 YO's daddy ever catch you?
What are you talking about?

Top
#1356442 --- 07/31/12 07:07 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: ]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
Originally Posted By: twocats
The state required the district to provide extra tutoring. Sylvan hired Geneva teachers to provide the tutoring. There are no actual results available yet as to wether whether or not the extra time will result in an improvement in test scores. We'll see.

Its the little thing in life that give you the most pleasure! \:\/

Pot calling the kettle black time again. You can't even properly punctuate!
So what! You couldn't find a real job!!

What does that comment have to do with your illiteracy?

I work, Harley. You're the guy that was only able find work work in the military (supposedly).
What can I say, I'm a product of our great public school system!

...or its reject.
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

Top
#1356470 --- 07/31/12 09:14 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: ]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 5389
Loc: Malmö
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
[quote=Fud P]Hey Harley, did that 14 YO's daddy ever catch you?
What are you talking about? [/



Careful Fud, remember the forum guidelines.
No need to pick Hb's sore spot anyway.



_________________________
"Everything that has ever happened to us is there to make us stronger."
-John Trudell


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#1356528 --- 08/01/12 03:21 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Teonan]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Save Our Schools Returns to Washington, DC
By Anthony Cody on July 27, 2012 8:58 PM

Follow me on Twitter at @AnthonyCody

Last July 31, thousands of teachers and parents joined together in the hot sun in the nation's capital for the Save Our Schools March and Rally. I was one of the organizers of last year's event, but have not been quite so involved this year. Nonetheless, I will be joining with activists a week from now for the Save Our Schools Convention.

I will be there because SOS has once again created a crossroads for our movement, just as it did last summer. So much of our communication these days is online, via blogs, Facebook and Twitter. Last year in DC I met scores of people in person who were familiar to me. But meeting in person allows a connection that is much harder to achieve online. I look forward to renewing those connections, and making new ones.

I hope SOS continues to play this role as a convener for a wide spectrum of teachers, parents, and activists who want to support public education. That has been its strength and is a role no other group is playing these days.

From Bob Schaeffer comes this:

TEN REASONS TO ATTEND THE AUG. 3 - 5 SAVE OUR SCHOOLS CONVENTION

Marriott Wardman Park hotel, Washington, DC

Hear author Jonathan Kozol's prescription for saving public schools
Meet the next generation of student activist leaders
Learn from Deborah Meier, the first public school teacher to win a MacArthur "genius" award
Be briefed by civil rights lawyers about the latest initiatives to protect parents and educators
Talk to school board members spearheading the opposition to failed policies
Explore with Nancy Carlsson-Page the concerns of early childhood educators
Find out organizers' plans for expanding the testing opt-out movement
Examine the assessment reform agenda for replacing "No Child Left Behind"
Listen to grassroots leaders debate the Peoples Principles platform
Discover why education activists from across the U.S. support Save Our Schools
The full convention program is available here.

You can find information about registration and discounted hotel accommodations here at the Save Our Schools website.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1356533 --- 08/01/12 04:09 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Lies and deception:

One Parent’s Polite Response – #Rheediculous – Money Over Children ? #TryAgainRhee

28
JUL
1 Votes

A few days ago, many parents here in Florida received an email from a representative of Michelle Rhee’s organization, Students First. The person who wrote the email is Catherine Robinson. Apparently, she works for the organization ran by Michelle Rhee.

(I refuse to link to Rhee’s Student First website – but you may google ‘Students First’ to find the web address. It is easy to find. Her link sits right below this link: Rhee Under Investigation | nytimes.com )

So, about this email. Apparently, Ms. Robinson offered Florida parents a chance to win a $5 gift card. The parents were encouraged to go online and jump from article to article. They were encouraged to write ‘polite’ comments in favor of Rhee’s idea of ‘transformative’ (corporate) education reform.

I will not go into the details of Michelle Rhee’s vision for education. If you want to learn more, you can google the name “Michelle Rhee” or attend one of her conferences. They must be incredible as I hear she charges $35,000 a pop to speak. I am not sure if you get refreshments for that price, but I have also heard that her conferences are “BYOMT” … (bring your own masking tape).

Anyhow, back to the email sent to Florida parents…

Not long after the email went out, a FL activist for public education, Bob Sikes, wrote this article: Michelle Rhee’s Florida Rep Calls for Astroturf Campaign on Parent Trigger - The link for that article is found here: http://bobsidlethoughtsandmusings.wordpr...igger/#comments

Remarkably, Ms. Robinson then defended her email in the comments below the article and even managed to insult parents in her comments, despite her repeated advice to ‘be polite’. She also defended Rhee’s Students First organization. Feel free to check out her comments. I did and I decided to respond.

Here is my response:

Ms. Robinson,

You write: “And so now I’m organizing over 119,000 Florida parents, teachers and concerned citizens.” … I politely ask you to verify those numbers.

Why do I not believe that 119,000 people in Florida agree with you? Let me politely explain.

I am also an advocate. I also interact/organize tens of thousands of parents. I have yet to ever meet one that agrees with Students First’s ‘transformative’ reform. So, I am politely interested as to where you get the number “119,000″.

I might also add, politely, that many on the Rhee website did not join out of support for your policies. Many joined to keep an eye on the destructive policies of your organization. Many others joined by mistake after signing a poll regarding Trayvon — the Students First pop up upon signature tricked quite a few of us.

I politely remind you, Ms. Robinson, that very few people in FL or elsewhere agree with excessive standardized testing, selling out public schools to corporate charters, or destroying communities by closing schools. We politely ask you and Students First to stop.

As far as politeness, I might politely remind you to practice what you preach. It is funny that you use the word ‘vitriol’ to describe Florida’s parents. I have heard that word ‘vitriol’ thrown at us parents before. (see link:http://wp.me/pWHfU-cy ).

I stand, politely, in disbelief. Why be so insulting? I politely suggest that you be more polite.

To say parents are full of “vitriol” is unbelievably rude not polite, I might politely add. You do remember that we parents are, in fact, the parents, don’t you? How can you, Rhee’s Students First organization, Jeb’s ‘Foundation for FL’s Failure’, or any other organization claim to represent parents while also insulting those parents and hurting their children with harmful policies?

So, I politely ask: What exactly do you have against caring parents?

Perhaps this is why you are offering gift cards for polite comments? If so, I politely applaud you for finally reminding those involved in your organizations to be polite.

That, I might politely add, is long overdue.

Polite enough?



Oh, and not to be impolite, but you can keep your money. My kids are worth more than 5 bucks.

#Priceless
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1356694 --- 08/01/12 09:04 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
Originally Posted By: Josephus
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
Originally Posted By: twocats
The state required the district to provide extra tutoring. Sylvan hired Geneva teachers to provide the tutoring. There are no actual results available yet as to wether whether or not the extra time will result in an improvement in test scores. We'll see.

Its the little thing in life that give you the most pleasure! \:\/

Pot calling the kettle black time again. You can't even properly punctuate!
So what! You couldn't find a real job!!

What does that comment have to do with your illiteracy?

I work, Harley. You're the guy that was only able find work work in the military (supposedly).
What can I say, I'm a product of our great public school system!

...or its reject.


or the next teacher

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#1356697 --- 08/01/12 09:08 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Why teacher pension costs will keep rising
Thursday July 5, 2012 3:21 PM By E.J. McMahon

The closing bell on Wall Street last Friday also marked the end of the fiscal year for many public pension funds across the country, including the New York State Teachers' Retirement System (NYSTRS), which finances pensions promised to 420,000 active and retired professional educators working mainly for school districts outside New York City.

Like its counterparts, NYSTRS is heavily invested in publicly traded domestic corporate stocks, which make up 46 percent of its portfolio. As a result, the value of the pension fund's assets tends to move in the same direction as the S&P 500. The correlation isn’t precise; indeed, on average, the pension fund has outperformed the index. In general, however, a strong stock market equates to strong pension fund returns, and vice versa.

Last fall, NYSTRS was boasting of a “robust" return of 23.2 percent in fiscal 2011, when the S&P 500 gained 28.1 percent. But if the stock market's performance is any indication, fiscal 2012 wasn’t such a great year for the teachers' pension fund. During the 12 months ending June 29, the S&P 500 gained just 3.1 percent, excluding dividends. While the pension fund may have done better than that (it won’t get around to telling us until the fall), it seems unlikely, given the shaky state of global financial markets, that NYSTRS hit its return target of 8 percent in the fiscal year just ended. This is more bad news for the rest of us.

Even after a strong recovery in 2010 and 2011, and excluding a sub-par performance in 2012, the teacher pension fund’s average return on assets has been just 4.4 percent since 2000. This opened an enormous funding gap – which taxpayers have had to close.

Think of it this way: if NYSTRS had hit its 8 percent annual return target since the turn of the century, $100 in fund assets as of June 30, 2000, would have been worth $233 by June 30, 2011. The actual figure was $166. The pension fund’s choppy route to that mediocre return is depicted in the chart below.


Meanwhile, benefit payments have continued increasing at an average rate of 8 percent a year, more than doubling during the same period, according to NYSTRS’ annual financial reports. And this, in a nutshell, is why school districts’ pension costs have risen so much to 11.1 percent in 2012.


Ok, let’s get technical for a minute. A key factor in determining how close any pension plan comes to being fully funded is the discount rate used to calculate liabilities. This is different than the assumed rate of return; rather, the discount rate is just an expression of the cost of future liabilities today. And the higher the assumed discount rate, the less money needs to be set aside now to cover benefits promised for the future. Accounting rules dictate that corporate pension plans discount liabilities using the interest rate on low risk investments such as the yield on AAA-rated corporate bonds. That's typically 4 to 5 percent these days. By contrast, accounting standards for governments allow public pension funds to discount liabilities using the same high rate of return they hope to earn on their investments. That produces a trade-off -- pay less now, but more in the future if the goals are not met.

In a small step toward a more realistic standard, state Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli has lowered the rate-of-return assumption for the giant New York State and Local Retirement System to 7.5 percent, and New York City will soon go down to 7 percent, which is still high enough to have been compared by Mayor Bloomberg to an investment come-on from Bernie Madoff.

Wilshire Consulting, a respected firm that has done a lot of work in this area, projectsa median long-term return of 6.4 percent for state pension funds that are now assuming 8 percent. And some smart people on Wall Street aren’t optimistic about the short term, either. Goldman Sachs, for one, recently turned quite bearish, adjusting its 12-month target for the S&P 500 to 1350 -- 1 percent below Friday's close.

Last fall, the teachers’ pension fund board approved an important (but widely overlooked) update to its actual assumptions, which will affect pension costs going forward. The most important change was no change at all: as recommended by its actuary, the fund decided to stick with 8 percent. The explanation? This paragraph from the actuarial report (which is not posted online, unfortunately) is pretty much the extent of it:

"The key question is whether or not an 8.0% rate of return assumption continues to be a prudent estimate going forward. We believe it does, and do not recommend changing it at this time. It has certainly been a good estimate for the 20 years it has been in place. Logic dictates that just as we did not increase our assumption in the face of fantastic returns in the 1990s, we should not decrease it now after a poorly-returning decade."

In other words, contrary to a disclaimer that should be familiar to every investor, NYSTRS would have us believe that past performance does point to future results.

DiNapoli’s lowering of the the state and local government pension fund rate was based on an actuarial analysisthat, among other things, included 5,000 groupings of simulated returns for the pension fund over the next 30 years. The median return for those simulations was less than 7 percent—i.e., half came in higher, half lower--and there was just a 35 percent chance that the state pension fund would hit its newly reduced 7.5 percent target.

By contrast, the actuarial report for the teachers’ fund didn’t delve much into quantitative analysis of probabilities—or, for that matter, the issue of financial risk. It did significantly alter a few other assumptions affecting pension costs, though. For one thing, it said retired teachers are living longer, which would make pensions more expensive. On the other hand, it said, teachers also have been retiring a few years later, and their rate of salary growth has waned a bit. These trends would tend to bring down pension expenses.

The net result of all these factors—the 8 percent return assumption, longer life spans offset by later retirement, and slightly smaller salary hikes--is that the contribution rate collected from school districts in the fall of 2013 will be 11.5 to 12.5 percent of total teacher salaries, only slightly above the current rate. However, “this should NOT be interpreted to mean that the [employer contribution rate] has reached a plateau,” the teachers’ fund has warned school districts. “We anticipate continued future increases in the [rate] beyond this point.”

How big will those increases be? NYSTRS just won’t say. While the teacher pension fund is comfortable predicting asset returns 40 to 50 years into the future, it refuses to provide employers with useful guidance on where their pension costs might be headed within the next decade. As a result, school districts throughout the state are negotiating three to five-year teachers’ contracts without knowing how much more pensions might cost three to five years down the line.

In a December 2010 report, Josh Barro and I estimated that the contribution rate could more than double, reaching 25 percent by 2016 if the fund hit its return target in the meantime. Adjusting for the very large return in 2011, we still estimate the rate will peak at 17 percent of salaries.

In short, more misery is on the way – even as the relatively few newly hired teachers become vested in what are (for now) less expensive pension tiers created by the state in the last three years, which won’t yield significant savings for a decade. But while school districts complain that pensions are a state-mandated cost over which they have no control, they are not completely helpless – not as group, at any rate. A concerted effort by school boards to hold down salary increases could have a significant impact on long-term pension costs. How significant? Well, NYSTRS’ latest actuarial calculations dropped the assumed average salary increase from 6.51 percent to 5.61 percent a year. All by itself, the report said, this 0.9 percent reduction was enough to cut pension contribution rates by 1.61 percent of salary.

This doesn’t let the teachers’ pension fund off the hook, however. By refusing to recognize the real long-term cost of teacher pensions, and by refusing to issue long-term projections of annual required contributions, the teachers’ retirement system and its board are doing a disservice to taxpayers and retirees alike.

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#1356859 --- 08/02/12 06:34 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
At the more than 5,500 charter schools nationwide, private management companies -- some of them for-profit -- are in full control of running public schools with public dollars.

"I look around the world and I don't see any country doing this but us," Ravitch said. "Why is that?"


Private firms eyeing profits from U.S. public schools

Pearson PLC
PSON.L
1,223.00p
-7.00-0.57%
21:05:39 IDT
By Stephanie Simon
NEW YORK | Thu Aug 2, 2012 7:46pm IST
Aug 1 (Reuters) - The investors gathered in a tony private club in Manhattan were eager to hear about the next big thing, and education consultant Rob Lytle was happy to oblige.

Think about the upcoming rollout of new national academic standards for public schools, he urged the crowd. If they're as rigorous as advertised, a huge number of schools will suddenly look really bad, their students testing way behind in reading and math. They'll want help, quick. And private, for-profit vendors selling lesson plans, educational software and student assessments will be right there to provide it.

"You start to see entire ecosystems of investment opportunity lining up," said Lytle, a partner at The Parthenon Group, a Boston consulting firm. "It could get really, really big."

Indeed, investors of all stripes are beginning to sense big profit potential in public education.

The K-12 market is tantalizingly huge: The U.S. spends more than $500 billion a year to educate kids from ages five through 18. The entire education sector, including college and mid-career training, represents nearly 9 percent of U.S. gross domestic product, more than the energy or technology sectors.

Traditionally, public education has been a tough market for private firms to break into -- fraught with politics, tangled in bureaucracy and fragmented into tens of thousands of individual schools and school districts from coast to coast.

Now investors are signaling optimism that a golden moment has arrived. They're pouring private equity and venture capital into scores of companies that aim to profit by taking over broad swaths of public education.

The conference last week at the University Club, billed as a how-to on "private equity investing in for-profit education companies," drew a full house of about 100.

OUTSOURCING BASICS

In the venture capital world, transactions in the K-12 education sector soared to a record $389 million last year, up from $13 million in 2005. That includes major investments from some of the most respected venture capitalists in Silicon Valley, according to GSV Advisors, an investment firm in Chicago that specializes in education.

The goal: an education revolution in which public schools outsource to private vendors such critical tasks as teaching math, educating disabled students, even writing report cards, said Michael Moe, the founder of GSV.

"It's time," Moe said. "Everybody's excited about it."

Not quite everyone.

The push to privatize has alarmed some parents and teachers, as well as union leaders who fear their members will lose their jobs or their autonomy in the classroom.

Many of these protesters have rallied behind education historian Diane Ravitch, a professor at New York University, who blogs and tweets a steady stream of alarms about corporate profiteers invading public schools.

Ravitch argues that schools have, in effect, been set up by a bipartisan education reform movement that places an enormous emphasis on standardized test scores, labels poor performers as "failing" schools and relentlessly pushes local districts to transform low-ranked schools by firing the staff and turning the building over to private management.

President Barack Obama and both Democratic and Republican policymakers in the states have embraced those principles. Local school districts from Memphis to Philadelphia to Dallas, meanwhile, have hired private consultants to advise them on improving education; the strategists typically call for a broader role for private companies in public schools.

"This is a new frontier," Ravitch said. "The private equity guys and the hedge fund guys are circling public education."

Some of the products and services offered by private vendors may well be good for kids and schools, Ravitch said. But she has no confidence in their overall quality because "the bottom line is that they're seeking profit first."

Vendors looking for a toehold in public schools often donate generously to local politicians and spend big on marketing, so even companies with dismal academic results can rack up contracts and rake in tax dollars, Ravitch said.

"They're taking education, which ought to be in a different sphere where we're constantly concerned about raising quality, and they're applying a business metric: How do we cut costs?" Ravitch said.

BUDGET PRESSURES

Investors retort that public school districts are compelled to use that metric anyway because of reduced funding from states and the soaring cost of teacher pensions and health benefits. Public schools struggling to balance budgets have fired teachers, slashed course offerings and imposed a long list of fees, charging students to ride the bus, to sing in the chorus, even to take honors English.

The time is ripe, they say, for schools to try something new -- like turning to the private sector for help.

"Education is behind healthcare and other sectors that have utilized outsourcing to become more efficient," private equity investor Larry Shagrin said in the keynote address to the New York conference.

He credited the reform movement with forcing public schools to catch up. "There's more receptivity to change than ever before," said Shagrin, a partner with Brockway Moran & Partners Inc, in Boca Raton, Florida. "That creates opportunity."

Speakers at the conference identified several promising arenas for privatization.

Education entrepreneur John Katzman urged investors to look for companies developing software that can replace teachers for segments of the school day, driving down labor costs.

"How do we use technology so that we require fewer highly qualified teachers?" asked Katzman, who founded the Princeton Review test-prep company and now focuses on online learning.

Such businesses already have been drawing significant interest. Venture capital firms have bet more than $9 million on Schoology, an online learning platform that promises to take over the dreary jobs of writing and grading quizzes, giving students feedback about their progress and generating report cards.

DreamBox Learning has received $18 million from investors to refine and promote software that drills students in math. The software is billed as "adaptive," meaning it analyzes responses to problems and then poses follow-up questions precisely pitched to a student's abilities.

The charter school chain Rocketship, a nonprofit based in San Jose, California, turns kids over to DreamBox for two hours a day. The chain boasts that it pays its teachers more because it needs fewer of them, thanks to such programs. Last year, Rocketship commissioned a study that showed students who used DreamBox heavily for 16 weeks scored on average 2.3 points higher on a standardized math test than their peers.

SPECIAL ED AS A GROWTH MARKET

Another niche spotlighted at the private equity conference: special education.

Mark Claypool, president of Educational Services of America, told the crowd his company has enjoyed three straight years of 15 percent to 20 percent growth as more and more school districts have hired him to run their special-needs programs.

Autism in particular, he said, is a growth market, with school districts seeking better, cheaper ways to serve the growing number of students struggling with that disorder.

ESA, which is based in Nashville, Tennessee, now serves 12,000 students with learning disabilities or behavioral problems in 250 school districts nationwide.

"The knee-jerk reaction [to private providers like ESA] is, 'You're just in this to make money. The profit motive is going to trump quality,' " Claypool said. "That's crazy, because frankly, there are really a whole lot easier ways to make a living." Claypool, a former social worker, said he got into the field out of frustration over what he saw as limited options for children with learning disabilities.

Claypool and others point out that private firms have always made money off public education; they have constructed the schools, provided the buses and processed the burgers served at lunch. Big publishers such as Pearson, McGraw-Hill and Houghton Mifflin Harcourt have made hundreds of millions of dollars selling public school districts textbooks and standardized tests.

Critics see the newest rush to private vendors as more worrisome because school districts are outsourcing not just supplies but the very core of education: the daily interaction between student and teacher, the presentation of new material, the quick checks to see which kids have risen to the challenge and which are hopelessly confused.

At the more than 5,500 charter schools nationwide, private management companies -- some of them for-profit -- are in full control of running public schools with public dollars.

"I look around the world and I don't see any country doing this but us," Ravitch said. "Why is that?"
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1356887 --- 08/02/12 07:20 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Whining about charter schools is going to improve local public school, How?

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#1356896 --- 08/02/12 07:48 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats
The K-12 market is tantalizingly huge: The U.S. spends more than $500 billion a year to educate kids from ages five through 18. The entire education sector, including college and mid-career training, represents nearly 9 percent of U.S. gross domestic product, more than the energy or technology sectors.


2/3 of that money spent on teachers overly generous pay, pensions and healthcare from the taxpayers

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#1356898 --- 08/02/12 07:51 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats

OUTSOURCING BASICS

The goal: an education revolution in which public schools outsource to private vendors such critical tasks as teaching math, educating disabled students, even writing report cards, said Michael Moe, the founder of GSV.

"It's time," Moe said. "Everybody's excited about it."



outsource it to finland as you say they do it so well

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#1356899 --- 08/02/12 07:53 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Whining about charter schools is going to improve local public school, How?


she is worried about her job
in the past the teachers had complete job security
now she will have to see how the real world works

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#1356927 --- 08/02/12 09:45 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
"There are “turnaround” consultants who make millions even though they have never turned around a school in their life. "


No Consultant Left Behind
July 27, 2012 //
25
Over the past decade, since the adoption of No Child Left Behind and the introduction of Race to the Top, I have noticed an interesting phenomenon: a proliferation of businesses that “consult” with schools, school districts, and states.

It started slowly, and then it mushroomed. I remember when NCLB started, and overnight there were hundreds of tutoring firms created to offer supplementary services. Some of these firms had never tutored anyone before, but they got clients by offering prizes and cash inducements to principals to send them students. Some of them submitted inflated bills. Some of them should never have been approved in the first place. See here and here and here and here and here.

Every time a new federal program was launched, a new bunch of private-sector consultants popped up to get a piece of the pie.

Race to the Top and the School Improvement Grants were a new jackpot or honeypot for consultants. In Denver, consultants raked in 35 percent of the federal dollars in School Improvement Grants targeted for the district. Think of it: 35 percent allocated by Congress to help schools improve–and it went to consultants. Did it do any good? Do Denver school officials lack the capacity to know what to do?

There are “turnaround” consultants who make millions even though they have never turned around a school in their life. There are consultants to tell districts how to implement the Common Core, and consultants to tell them how to do most anything and everything. This is big business.

I have seen evaluations of the NCLB supplementary education services programs that said they didn’t make a difference. Secretary Duncan said recently that tutoring “doesn’t work.” That’s not quite right. Sending kids to be tutored by unregulated fly-by-night private corporations doesn’t work. It is counter-intuitive to conclude that tutoring doesn’t work. It works if the teacher is experienced at the job of tutoring.

All of this leads me to wonder: When people say “we spend enough on education,” “we spend too much on education,” shouldn’t we be cutting out the consultants? Shouldn’t we cut the spending on the corporations that exist to tell principals and teachers how to do their jobs? If we hired good people from the get-go, why do they need to bring in consultants anyway?

So here is a thought: First, we need someone to do the research and create a database (yes, a database) of all the consultants who are fattening at the trough of public education, as well as a way of evaluating their track record; second, we need to know how much of our education spending is diverted to these corporations; third, if budget cuts happen, they should be the first to go–not the arts, not kindergarten, not guidance counselors, not school nurses, not librarians, and certainly not teachers.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1356928 --- 08/02/12 09:49 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 5389
Loc: Malmö
"...real world works"?

Idiotic remark Bz. twocats has probably experienced and forgotten more 'real world' issues than you have ever even known.
_________________________
"Everything that has ever happened to us is there to make us stronger."
-John Trudell


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#1356930 --- 08/02/12 09:59 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Teonan]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
No worries. Blowzone only acts up once or twice a day when his meds are overdue.

Seems he's jealous of your late nights. Must be prohibited from going on-line after 'lights out' in the asylum.


Edited by twocats (08/02/12 09:59 PM)
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1356933 --- 08/02/12 10:09 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 5389
Loc: Malmö
TA!

If he knew the reason I was up - he'd be seriously jealous. ;\)
_________________________
"Everything that has ever happened to us is there to make us stronger."
-John Trudell


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#1356934 --- 08/02/12 10:12 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Teonan]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
\:D
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1357039 --- 08/03/12 01:42 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Teonan]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Teonan
"...real world works"?


seems you do not understand
keep trying tho

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#1357040 --- 08/03/12 01:44 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Teonan]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Teonan
twocats has probably experienced and forgotten more 'real world' issues than you have ever even known.


15 years as a 'teacher'
those who can do...
you know the rest

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#1357042 --- 08/03/12 01:48 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats
Blowzone only acts up once or twice a day when his meds are overdue.

where are your facts?

Seems he's jealous of your late nights.


seems not
were you on here at 4am?

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#1357043 --- 08/03/12 01:49 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Teonan]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Teonan
If he knew the reason I was up - he'd be seriously jealous. ;\)



wrong again
you waiting for a call from romney for the vp position?

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#1357157 --- 08/04/12 02:26 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Quote:
Pity poor teachers who have to retire on $62K

By Greg David
January 30, 2011
In Crain's last week, the president of the United Federation of Teachers defended his members' pensions—which average $42,000 a year—with passion and a shot at Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

First, average teachers aren't living on $42,000 a year. If they are over 62, they will most likely receive Social Security benefits of about $20,000. If they wait until 66, they'll get $24,000. Additionally, they don't pay state or local income taxes on their pension. That's worth another 5% to 10%. So the “average'' teacher's real retirement income is probably north of $60,000.

Second, teachers are much better off than the average retiree in the private sector, where the average pension is $16,082 a year, according to the Employee Benefit Research Institute. The average retirement income of people 65 and older is another eye-opening amount: $28,778. The figures could be a little higher in New York, but not by much.

Of course, most private-sector employees don't have guaranteed pensions. They retire on their 401(k) or IRA savings. So what amount would be needed to produce $42,000 from an annuity? About $425,000, according to a calculator at Bankrate.com. And the average 401(k) account balance at Fidelity Investments for people 55 and over is about half that amount, or $243,000.

Third, average teachers have retiree health coverage. This insurance is enormously valuable before they qualify for Medicare at age 65 and then covers all the costs Medicare does not. That's worth a pretty penny, too.

To fund the pensions his members get, Mr. Mulgrew and his fellow union leaders support policies that have given New York a local and state tax burden that is the nation's highest or second-highest, depending on which year is being tallied.



so tell us twocats why are you so special that you do not have to pay taxes on your pension income like everyone else?





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#1357163 --- 08/04/12 03:03 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
twocats isn't special, BZ. Under NY state tax law, pension income is not taxable in NY if it is paid from New York State or local government or the federal government, including Social Security benefits. Those pensions are subject to Federal income tax, however. Non-government pensions are not subject to state income tax on the first $20K of pension.

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#1357184 --- 08/04/12 06:42 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
twocats isn't special, BZ. Under NY state tax law, pension income is not taxable in NY if it is paid from New York State or local government or the federal government, including Social Security benefits. Those pensions are subject to Federal income tax, however. Non-government pensions are not subject to state income tax on the first $20K of pension.


So NY state pensions are not taxable, but non-government pensions are after the first $20000. So BZ is right, Twocats is special?

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#1357213 --- 08/04/12 10:04 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
Yeah, if by "special" you mean one of the thousands of retired county employees, retired Federal employees, retired NY state employees, et. al. Or maybe you mean they're all "special" (though that seems to be an awfully large group to be considered special). Or is it that BZ (and you?) envies those in that group?

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#1357219 --- 08/04/12 10:48 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Or is it that BZ (and you?) envies those in that group?

DING!... DING!...DING! I think we have a winner!
_________________________
I don't want my country back... I want my country forward!

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#1357279 --- 08/05/12 02:48 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
twocats isn't special, BZ. Under NY state tax law, pension income is not taxable in NY if it is paid from New York State or local government or the federal government, including Social Security benefits. Non-government pensions are not subject to state income tax on the first $20K of pension.


Special
Not Special

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#1357280 --- 08/05/12 02:51 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
So tell it to your state representatives and start lobbying for a change to the tax laws. Or is it easier to just sit around and whine about it on the internet?

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#1357281 --- 08/05/12 02:51 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
So BZ is right, Twocats is special?



cut the teachers pay, convert to 401k and make them pay more for their healthcare

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#1357282 --- 08/05/12 02:54 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Yeah, if by "special" you mean one of the thousands of retired county employees, retired Federal employees, retired NY state employees, et. al. Or maybe you mean they're all "special" (though that seems to be an awfully large group to be considered special).


just think how much lower the taxes would be if all paid their fair sahre?

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#1357283 --- 08/05/12 02:58 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Yeah, if by "special" you mean one of the thousands of retired county employees, retired Federal employees, retired NY state employees, et. al. Or maybe you mean they're all "special" (though that seems to be an awfully large group to be considered special).


and what percentage of NY workers are in this 'special' group?
20%, 40%, 60%, 80%...?

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#1357288 --- 08/05/12 03:35 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Yeah, if by "special" you mean one of the thousands of retired county employees, retired Federal employees, retired NY state employees, et. al. Or maybe you mean they're all "special" (though that seems to be an awfully large group to be considered special).


and what percentage of NY workers are in this 'special' group?
20%, 40%, 60%, 80%...?
I don't know, but then I'm not the one whining about this. If you're that concerned, get off your butt, do some homework to see if you have a supportable case, then start contacting your representatives and lobby for a change. Or is it easier to just sit around and whine about it on the internet?

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#1357318 --- 08/05/12 09:17 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
(though that seems to be an awfully large group to be considered special).


I don't know,


then how do you know it is an awfully large group if you do not know the percentage?

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#1357323 --- 08/05/12 10:06 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
Well, BZ, considering the size of NYS and the number of cities, villages, towns, and counties, not to mention school districts, I just guessed that the total number of state and local government employees would be quite large. A 5 second search gave me a number of over 360,000 retired state and local employees. I'd say that's a large group, wouldn't you? And don't forget to add all the retired Federal employees to that number. Stop whining. Or as I said earlier, get off your butt, do some homework to see if you have a supportable case, then start contacting your representatives and lobby for a change. Or is it easier to just sit around and whine about it on the internet?

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#1357334 --- 08/06/12 01:12 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
One popular movement believes merit pay would improve education. Here's a short post by Dianne Ravitch on merit pay:

One Reason Why Merit Pay Fails
August 5, 2012 //
3
The assumption behind merit pay is that teachers are not trying hard enough.

The assumption is that a cash bonus will make them care and prod them to work harder and get those test scores up.

For 100 years, school boards at the state and local level have tried merit pay and it has always failed to produce higher test scores.

There are many reasons for this.

One is that merit pay is intrinsically insulting. It presumes that it takes a cash prize to incentivize lazy teachers.

But when there are two groups, one offered merit pay, the other not, they seem to get the same results.

That’s because the teachers in both groups are doing the best they can to get their students to learn.

As one teacher commented today:

Yup, once I’m eligible for merit pay I’ll bring out my really good lesson plans, until then, they’re staying in my desk!
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1357522 --- 08/07/12 03:40 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Good ole charters:

Get Tested Or Get Out: School Forces Pregnancy Tests on Girls, Kicks out Students Who Refuse or are Pregnant
By Tiseme Zegeye, ACLU Women's Rights Project at 12:33pm
In a Louisiana public school, female students who are suspected of being pregnant are told that they must take a pregnancy test. Under school policy, those who are pregnant or refuse to take the test are kicked out and forced to undergo home schooling.

Welcome to Delhi Charter School, in Delhi, Louisiana, a school of 600 students that does not believe its female students have a right to education free from discrimination. According to its Student Pregnancy Policy, the school has a right to not only force testing upon girls, but to send them to a physician of the school administration’s choice. A positive test result, or failure to take the test at all, means administrators can forbid a girl from taking classes and force her to pursue a course of home study if she wishes to continue her education with the school.

This is in blatant violation of federal law and the U.S. Constitution.

Today, the ACLU of Louisiana and the ACLU Women’s Rights Project asked Delhi Charter School to immediately suspend this discriminatory and illegal policy.

The policy’s complete disregard for Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, the federal law that prohibits sex discrimination in federally funded education programs and activities, is astonishing. Title IX and its regulations explicitly mandate that schools cannot exclude any student from an education program or activity, “including any class or extracurricular activity, on the basis of such student’s pregnancy, childbirth, false pregnancy, termination of pregnancy or recovery therefrom.”

Besides violating Title IX, the policy is also in violation of the Constitution’s due process right to procreate, and equal protection: it treats female students differently from male students and relies on archaic stereotypes linked to sex and pregnancy.

Approximately 70 percent of teen girls who give birth leave school, due in part to illegal discrimination. Schools should be supporting pregnant and parenting teens that face numerous barriers to completing their education, not illegally excluding them from school. The ACLU’s Women’s Rights Project protects the rights of pregnant and parenting teens through advocacy, education, and litigation, working to combat the push-out of pregnant and parenting teens from school.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1357526 --- 08/07/12 04:06 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
I did it! Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1960
Loc: West Coast 29 Palms
does this mean the teens 13 yrs of age also from ? where ever?
They need to be put into a home with their babies and both attend some education together. Never to young or old to learn.
Make the fathers pay support,force them to hold a job of some sort. They made the choice let them pay the bills also,nothing is free.
_________________________
“The manner in which it is given is worth more than the gift”.

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#1357536 --- 08/07/12 10:48 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: twocats
One popular movement believes merit pay would improve education. Here's a short post by Dianne Ravitch on merit pay:

One Reason Why Merit Pay Fails
August 5, 2012 //
3
The assumption behind merit pay is that teachers are not trying hard enough.

The assumption is that a cash bonus will make them care and prod them to work harder and get those test scores up.

For 100 years, school boards at the state and local level have tried merit pay and it has always failed to produce higher test scores.

There are many reasons for this.

One is that merit pay is intrinsically insulting. It presumes that it takes a cash prize to incentivize lazy teachers.

But when there are two groups, one offered merit pay, the other not, they seem to get the same results.

That’s because the teachers in both groups are doing the best they can to get their students to learn.

As one teacher commented today:

Yup, once I’m eligible for merit pay I’ll bring out my really good lesson plans, until then, they’re staying in my desk!


So donn't call it merit pay. Call it paying good teachers what they are worth. Not sure why the unions will not support their good teachers?


Edited by cwjga (08/07/12 10:49 AM)

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#1357781 --- 08/08/12 05:48 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
A 5 second search gave me a number of over 360,000 retired state and local employees.


you found the number of special ones

now find the number of not so special ones

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#1357782 --- 08/08/12 05:52 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats
One popular movement believes merit pay would improve education.


just eliminate the poor performing teachers

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#1357785 --- 08/08/12 06:02 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
twocats isn't special, BZ. Under NY state tax law, pension income is not taxable in NY if it is paid from New York State or local government or the federal government, including Social Security benefits. Those pensions are subject to Federal income tax, however. Non-government pensions are not subject to state income tax on the first $20K of pension.


Quote:
Pity poor teachers who have to retire on $62K

most private-sector employees don't have guaranteed pensions. They retire on their 401(k) or IRA savings. So what amount would be needed to produce $42,000 from an annuity? About $425,000, according to a calculator at Bankrate.com. And the average 401(k) account balance at Fidelity Investments for people 55 and over is about half that amount, or $243,000.


so tell us how much per month does one without a teachers pension need to set aside each month to have $425,000 after 30 years of employment?

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#1357789 --- 08/08/12 06:30 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
A 5 second search gave me a number of over 360,000 retired state and local employees.


you found the number of special ones

now find the number of not so special ones
You're the one who's obsessed with this idea, BZ, so go find it yourself. My bet is that you're whining about this because it doesn't apply to you. Again, if it bothers you that much, get off your butt and start lobbying your state representatives to change the law.



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#1357795 --- 08/08/12 07:01 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS


OMG You owe me a new laptop---flying Red Bull injected deep into the keyboard may cause irreversible damage!
I just may make that pic my new avatar!
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1357796 --- 08/08/12 07:03 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
So don't call it merit pay. Call it paying good teachers what they are worth. Not sure why the unions will not support their good teachers?

Just wondering?


Edited by cwjga (08/08/12 07:03 PM)

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#1357804 --- 08/08/12 07:20 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
I did it! Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1960
Loc: West Coast 29 Palms
sweet Lord do the math. "so tell us how much per month does one without a teachers pension need to set aside each month to have $425,000 after 30 years of employment?
Try dividing $425,000. by 30 and I`m sure the answer will pop right up at you. Bet you`ll get 14166.6666667 you most likely do not clear 14 grand to be able to save it? So do not worry just move on. What you done complaining about us American Indians for a change? GET A JOB
_________________________
“The manner in which it is given is worth more than the gift”.

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#1357814 --- 08/08/12 08:05 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: I did it!]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: I did it!
sweet Lord do the math. "so tell us how much per month does one without a teachers pension need to set aside each month to have $425,000 after 30 years of employment?
Try dividing $425,000. by 30 and I`m sure the answer will pop right up at you. Bet you`ll get 14166.6666667 you most likely do not clear 14 grand to be able to save it? So do not worry just move on. What you done complaining about us American Indians for a change? GET A JOB


What? I asked Twocats why Unions will not support good teachers getting higher salaries.
What has that got to do with pensions and american indians?



Edited by cwjga (08/08/12 08:05 PM)

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#1357852 --- 08/09/12 12:58 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
Fart in the Wind Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 429
Loc: beneath the Utica Shale
...and what percentage of NY workers are in this 'special' group?
20%, 40%, 60%, 80%...? [/quote]I don't know, but then I'm not the one whining about this. If you're that concerned, get off your butt, do some homework to see if you have a supportable case, then start contacting your representatives and lobby for a change... easier to just sit around and whine about it on the internet?

Overall membership in NYSLRS (New York State and Local Retirement System): 1,057,754
672,723 members (active or vested)
385,031 retirees and beneficiaries
94% are members of ERS; 6% are members of PFRS (police and firemen)
Average Pensions:
Average pension for all ERS retirees in FY 2011: $19,151 (over generous?)
Average pension for all PFRS retirees in FY 2011: $40,932

NYSTRS (Teachers)pensions in 2010:
The average for all retirees was $38,924. The average pension for educators retiring in 2010 was $52,270 (includes administrators).
Note - $38,924 not the $60,000 Gilbert Gottfried keeps pulling from his blue butt.

Most of which is put back into the NYS economy and not an offshore bank account as some would lead you to believe. LOL

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#1357912 --- 08/09/12 12:45 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
NYSTRS (Teachers)pensions in 2010:
The average for all retirees was $38,924. The average pension for educators retiring in 2010 was $52,270 (includes administrators).
Note - $38,924 not the $60,000 Gilbert Gottfried keeps pulling from his blue butt.


and how much of that did you pay into?

$52,270 x 25 (years retirement) = $1,306,750 (99.99999% taxpayer funded)

just convert to a 401k like everyone else


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#1357914 --- 08/09/12 12:50 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
A 5 second search gave me a number of over 360,000 retired state and local employees.


you found the number of special ones

now find the number of not so special ones
You're the one who's obsessed with this idea, BZ, so go find it yourself.


no sweety as you are the one that said it was a large number but then backtracked

your posts below


Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
(though that seems to be an awfully large group to be considered special).


I don't know,


then how do you know it is an awfully large group if you do not know the percentage?


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#1357919 --- 08/09/12 01:02 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
twocats isn't special, BZ. Under NY state tax law, pension income is not taxable in NY if it is paid from New York State or local government or the federal government, including Social Security benefits. Those pensions are subject to Federal income tax, however. Non-government pensions are not subject to state income tax on the first $20K of pension.



Originally Posted By: twocats
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Just wondering if anyone would outraged if it turned out that Romney was able to avoid paying ANY Federal or state income taxes for a number of years as has been alleged by a former associate at Bain? I still think many hard working taxpayers would find that a sour dish to eat, even if every was "legal."

That's just the American dream.


was he a teacher?

pot meet kettle...

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#1357921 --- 08/09/12 01:09 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Not sure why the unions will not support their good teachers?


they have far more underperforming ones


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#1357932 --- 08/09/12 02:00 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Fart in the Wind Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 429
Loc: beneath the Utica Shale

$52,270 x 25 (years retirement) = $1,306,750 (99.99999% taxpayer funded)

Nice job bluenose! I think we have a break through in your illogical half truth and preconceived notions. I am only responding to you because you finally have admitted you are wrong.

Now Re 99.99999% - here are some words for you to look up - investment, interest, collective pool
Keep studying I know you can figure this out eventually. You are showing potential.

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#1357934 --- 08/09/12 02:09 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
NYSTRS (Teachers)pensions in 2010:
The average for all retirees was $38,924. The average pension for educators retiring in 2010 was $52,270 (includes administrators).
Note - $38,924 not the $60,000 Gilbert Gottfried keeps pulling from his blue butt.


and how much of that did you pay in?

should be simple unless you want to hide the facts...


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#1357937 --- 08/09/12 02:12 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind

$52,270 x 25 (years retirement) = $1,306,750 (99.99999% taxpayer funded)

Nice job bluenose! I think we have a break through in your illogical half truth and preconceived notions. I am only responding to you because you finally have admitted you are wrong.


I have said all along your pensions are overly generous and you just proved it

how much of your overly generous $1 million+ pension did you pay in?

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#1357940 --- 08/09/12 02:29 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
illogical half truth and preconceived notions.

investment, interest, collective pool


did you forget 'teacher contribution'?

tell us how a $1,500 yearly 'contribution' for ten years by a teacher can grow to be a $1.3 million+ pension?

even madoff was not that good

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#1357941 --- 08/09/12 02:34 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY

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#1357944 --- 08/09/12 03:02 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS

" Reformers’ financial successes, their careers and their celebrity rest on their ability to convince the public of the failures — real, perceived, and generated — of our nation’s public schools.  Yet in national polls the vast majority of Americans have continually awarded high marks to their own schools, even while giving substantially lower marks to public schools across the board. The poll results represent the disconnect between the judgment  that the public makes based on  day to day experience with their own neighborhood schools, and the perception the reformers and the press have created. "


Principals: Our struggle to be heard on reform
Valerie Strauss
Tuesday, Aug 7, 2012
This was written by Carol Burris and Harry Leonadartos. Burris is the principal of South Side High School in Rockville Centre, New York.  Leonadartos is the principal of Clarkstown High School North in Rockland County, New York. Carol is the co-author and Harry is an active supporter of the New York Principals letter of concern regarding the evaluation of teachers by student scores. Over 1,500 New York principals and more than 5,400 teachers, parents, professors, administrators and citizens have signed the letter which can be found here.

 

By Carol Burris and Harry Leonardatos 

Several weeks ago, on Meet the Press, Michelle Rhee unveiled her new ad, designed to hammer away at how bad she believes American schools to be.  The ad likened public schools to an unfit male athlete competing unsuccessfully in a women’s sport.  Many found the ad to be offensive in its stereotypical portrayal of an overweight and effete man. But the true offense was that it took a moment of national pride, the Olympic Games, and used it to give American educators a kick in the pants. 

It is reasonable to wonder why it is so important for Michelle Rhee and other “reformers” to constantly deride and disparage American public schools.  Although we should always seek to improve, why should those efforts be expected to follow from derision?  In truth, while we and others see daunting and unfilled needs in many schools, there has not been a sharp and sudden decline in student performance as is being implied, and in fact scores on the National Assessment of Educational Progress — sometimes referred to as the nation’s educational report card — are higher than ever before. 

The answer is simple. School reform has generated a marketplace, and a profitable one at that.  Michelle Rhee’s standard fee is $50,000 an appearance, plus expenses. In Michigan, Clark Durrant is paid over half a million dollars a year to run five charter schools. Eva Moskowitz, Geoffrey Canada and Deborah Kenney all make between four and five hundred thousand a year running their New York City charter school organizations.

And these are the minor players. The real money is corporate.

[Some of the content in this entry could not be displayed on this device.]

StudentsFirst video

Rupert Murdoch announced that public education is a $500 billion market waiting desperately to be transformed. He is creating the data systems and hiring the people to help him make that profitable transformation happen. All the while, the editorial departments of his newspapers hammer away at New York City’s schools and teachers.

 Reformers’ financial successes, their careers and their celebrity rest on their ability to convince the public of the failures — real, perceived, and generated — of our nation’s public schools.  Yet in national polls the vast majority of Americans have continually awarded high marks to their own schools, even while giving substantially lower marks to public schools across the board. The poll results represent the disconnect between the judgment  that the public makes based on  day to day experience with their own neighborhood schools, and the perception the reformers and the press have created.

 And this is all before the upcoming Parent Trigger advocacy movie, “Won’t Back Down.” There is now so much money and power backing market-driven reforms that it is nearly impossible for alternative views to break through.

 We recently had our personal experience with how difficult it is to be heard. On July 26th, New York Governor Cuomo’s Education Commission held its only meeting in New York City. The purpose of the commission is to travel around the state in order to hear from stakeholders regarding suggestions for New York State school improvements.

Prior to the time and place of the meeting being posted, both of us sent a request to testify on the topic of teacher and principal quality. As high school principals, we are deeply concerned about the direction of the Regents reform agenda, especially in regard to evaluating teachers using test scores. We were joined by an outstanding New York City high school principal and two teachers from South Side High School. Both teachers had submitted requests to speak, one sending that request and her remarks weeks in advance. 

We were not allowed to speak. That was certainly troubling, but even more troubling was the overall staging of the event to ensure that the weight of testimony would support the predetermined, favored policy agenda. The selected panelists on teacher and principal quality were not practicing educators. The first speaker, former CNN reporter Campbell Brown, spoke about sex abuse and arbitrators’ decisions.  Brown has no experience as an educator or public school parent, and she has been inconsistent in disclosing that her husband is on the board of Michelle Rhee’s StudentsFirst.

The other panelists were Jermima Bernard, the New York executive director of Teach for America; Lesley Guggenheim from The New Teacher Project; and Evan Stone, an 18-month sixth grade teacher who described himself as the CEO of Educators 4 Excellence, another group aligned with the favored policy agenda.

So, with the exception of Campbell Brown, they all represented organizations that embraced the governor’s policies, and they all advocated for the following three policies: state imposition of teacher evaluation systems if local negotiations are not successful, elimination of contractually guaranteed pay increases, and the use of test scores in educator evaluations.

 We patiently waited through the testimony because the directions on the website stated that the final 30 minutes would be reserved for those who wished to speak, determined via a sign-in, first-come basis. Because we were among the first five to sign up, we believed we would have time to make brief remarks. We were stunned when the list in the lobby was not used. Instead, additional speakers were hand-picked. The speakers selected to comment on teacher and principal quality were a teacher who told the committee how she looked forward to being evaluated by test scores, and Anna Hall, the new head of StudentsFirst NY. Hall is a former principal from the Bronx, and she argued that teacher tenure should be abolished. 

After one of us (Harry) confronted the governor’s representative, he promised us that we would be allowed to speak at later hearings. We are hopeful that he will keep his word. The rules on the website regarding public comment have changed to now say that the speakers chosen would be the first to email rather than the first to sign in. You’ll excuse us for worrying that this might be one more attempt to control testimony at what is supposed to be an opportunity for the public to speak.

 None of us who came to the Bronx on that sweltering July day believed that we would change the direction of the Governor’s reform agenda by our testimony. We were there to give testimony and witness to the teachers and principals across our state who know that the barrage of negative press and misguided solutions generated by the young “CEOs” of hundreds of Gates-, Broad- and Walton-sponsored reform centers is wrong. We were there to give testimony that by setting teachers up on a bell curve, you are creating the contrived headline — “Half of all New York teachers not effective when judged by test scores,” thus cynically undermining the faith of parents in their public school teachers and principals.

 We hoped to speak for the teachers and principals who know that our students are being over-tested and that this is happening for purposes other than the assessment of their learning. We were there to represent the views of the 1,508 New York principals and the 5,400 teachers, parents, school board members, professors and administrators who have signed on to the principals letter in opposition to using student test scores in teachers evaluation. South Side High School teachers, Katie Burke and Debbie Tanklow were there to say how the evaluation system would undermine their relationship with their students. We also went to present our own ideas on how New York State schools can serve students better.

 Ironically, across town on that same day, venture capitalists were eagerly searching to invest in companies that will sell the products to ‘fix the crisis.’ They were huddled in a private club in Manhattan to scope investment opportunities. As reported by Stephanie Simon of Reuters, the venture capitalists were told to “Think about the upcoming rollout of new national academic standards for public schools… If they’re as rigorous as advertised, a huge number of schools will suddenly look really bad, their students testing way behind in reading and math. They’ll want help, quick. And private, for-profit vendors selling lesson plans, educational software and student assessments will be right there to provide it.”

  These venture capitalists could stay in the club. They had no need to worry about their concerns being heard, and they had no need to attend the Governor’s hearing. They were well represented.

-0-

Follow The Answer Sheet every day by bookmarking http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet .
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

Top
#1357945 --- 08/09/12 03:03 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS

" Reformers’ financial successes, their careers and their celebrity rest on their ability to convince the public of the failures — real, perceived, and generated — of our nation’s public schools.  Yet in national polls the vast majority of Americans have continually awarded high marks to their own schools, even while giving substantially lower marks to public schools across the board. The poll results represent the disconnect between the judgment  that the public makes based on  day to day experience with their own neighborhood schools, and the perception the reformers and the press have created. "


Principals: Our struggle to be heard on reform
Valerie Strauss
Tuesday, Aug 7, 2012
This was written by Carol Burris and Harry Leonadartos. Burris is the principal of South Side High School in Rockville Centre, New York.  Leonadartos is the principal of Clarkstown High School North in Rockland County, New York. Carol is the co-author and Harry is an active supporter of the New York Principals letter of concern regarding the evaluation of teachers by student scores. Over 1,500 New York principals and more than 5,400 teachers, parents, professors, administrators and citizens have signed the letter which can be found here.

 

By Carol Burris and Harry Leonardatos 

Several weeks ago, on Meet the Press, Michelle Rhee unveiled her new ad, designed to hammer away at how bad she believes American schools to be.  The ad likened public schools to an unfit male athlete competing unsuccessfully in a women’s sport.  Many found the ad to be offensive in its stereotypical portrayal of an overweight and effete man. But the true offense was that it took a moment of national pride, the Olympic Games, and used it to give American educators a kick in the pants. 

It is reasonable to wonder why it is so important for Michelle Rhee and other “reformers” to constantly deride and disparage American public schools.  Although we should always seek to improve, why should those efforts be expected to follow from derision?  In truth, while we and others see daunting and unfilled needs in many schools, there has not been a sharp and sudden decline in student performance as is being implied, and in fact scores on the National Assessment of Educational Progress — sometimes referred to as the nation’s educational report card — are higher than ever before. 

The answer is simple. School reform has generated a marketplace, and a profitable one at that.  Michelle Rhee’s standard fee is $50,000 an appearance, plus expenses. In Michigan, Clark Durrant is paid over half a million dollars a year to run five charter schools. Eva Moskowitz, Geoffrey Canada and Deborah Kenney all make between four and five hundred thousand a year running their New York City charter school organizations.

And these are the minor players. The real money is corporate.

[Some of the content in this entry could not be displayed on this device.]

StudentsFirst video

Rupert Murdoch announced that public education is a $500 billion market waiting desperately to be transformed. He is creating the data systems and hiring the people to help him make that profitable transformation happen. All the while, the editorial departments of his newspapers hammer away at New York City’s schools and teachers.

 Reformers’ financial successes, their careers and their celebrity rest on their ability to convince the public of the failures — real, perceived, and generated — of our nation’s public schools.  Yet in national polls the vast majority of Americans have continually awarded high marks to their own schools, even while giving substantially lower marks to public schools across the board. The poll results represent the disconnect between the judgment  that the public makes based on  day to day experience with their own neighborhood schools, and the perception the reformers and the press have created.

 And this is all before the upcoming Parent Trigger advocacy movie, “Won’t Back Down.” There is now so much money and power backing market-driven reforms that it is nearly impossible for alternative views to break through.

 We recently had our personal experience with how difficult it is to be heard. On July 26th, New York Governor Cuomo’s Education Commission held its only meeting in New York City. The purpose of the commission is to travel around the state in order to hear from stakeholders regarding suggestions for New York State school improvements.

Prior to the time and place of the meeting being posted, both of us sent a request to testify on the topic of teacher and principal quality. As high school principals, we are deeply concerned about the direction of the Regents reform agenda, especially in regard to evaluating teachers using test scores. We were joined by an outstanding New York City high school principal and two teachers from South Side High School. Both teachers had submitted requests to speak, one sending that request and her remarks weeks in advance. 

We were not allowed to speak. That was certainly troubling, but even more troubling was the overall staging of the event to ensure that the weight of testimony would support the predetermined, favored policy agenda. The selected panelists on teacher and principal quality were not practicing educators. The first speaker, former CNN reporter Campbell Brown, spoke about sex abuse and arbitrators’ decisions.  Brown has no experience as an educator or public school parent, and she has been inconsistent in disclosing that her husband is on the board of Michelle Rhee’s StudentsFirst.

The other panelists were Jermima Bernard, the New York executive director of Teach for America; Lesley Guggenheim from The New Teacher Project; and Evan Stone, an 18-month sixth grade teacher who described himself as the CEO of Educators 4 Excellence, another group aligned with the favored policy agenda.

So, with the exception of Campbell Brown, they all represented organizations that embraced the governor’s policies, and they all advocated for the following three policies: state imposition of teacher evaluation systems if local negotiations are not successful, elimination of contractually guaranteed pay increases, and the use of test scores in educator evaluations.

 We patiently waited through the testimony because the directions on the website stated that the final 30 minutes would be reserved for those who wished to speak, determined via a sign-in, first-come basis. Because we were among the first five to sign up, we believed we would have time to make brief remarks. We were stunned when the list in the lobby was not used. Instead, additional speakers were hand-picked. The speakers selected to comment on teacher and principal quality were a teacher who told the committee how she looked forward to being evaluated by test scores, and Anna Hall, the new head of StudentsFirst NY. Hall is a former principal from the Bronx, and she argued that teacher tenure should be abolished. 

After one of us (Harry) confronted the governor’s representative, he promised us that we would be allowed to speak at later hearings. We are hopeful that he will keep his word. The rules on the website regarding public comment have changed to now say that the speakers chosen would be the first to email rather than the first to sign in. You’ll excuse us for worrying that this might be one more attempt to control testimony at what is supposed to be an opportunity for the public to speak.

 None of us who came to the Bronx on that sweltering July day believed that we would change the direction of the Governor’s reform agenda by our testimony. We were there to give testimony and witness to the teachers and principals across our state who know that the barrage of negative press and misguided solutions generated by the young “CEOs” of hundreds of Gates-, Broad- and Walton-sponsored reform centers is wrong. We were there to give testimony that by setting teachers up on a bell curve, you are creating the contrived headline — “Half of all New York teachers not effective when judged by test scores,” thus cynically undermining the faith of parents in their public school teachers and principals.

 We hoped to speak for the teachers and principals who know that our students are being over-tested and that this is happening for purposes other than the assessment of their learning. We were there to represent the views of the 1,508 New York principals and the 5,400 teachers, parents, school board members, professors and administrators who have signed on to the principals letter in opposition to using student test scores in teachers evaluation. South Side High School teachers, Katie Burke and Debbie Tanklow were there to say how the evaluation system would undermine their relationship with their students. We also went to present our own ideas on how New York State schools can serve students better.

 Ironically, across town on that same day, venture capitalists were eagerly searching to invest in companies that will sell the products to ‘fix the crisis.’ They were huddled in a private club in Manhattan to scope investment opportunities. As reported by Stephanie Simon of Reuters, the venture capitalists were told to “Think about the upcoming rollout of new national academic standards for public schools… If they’re as rigorous as advertised, a huge number of schools will suddenly look really bad, their students testing way behind in reading and math. They’ll want help, quick. And private, for-profit vendors selling lesson plans, educational software and student assessments will be right there to provide it.”

  These venture capitalists could stay in the club. They had no need to worry about their concerns being heard, and they had no need to attend the Governor’s hearing. They were well represented.

-0-

Follow The Answer Sheet every day by bookmarking http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet .
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

Top
#1357959 --- 08/09/12 04:02 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 5389
Loc: Malmö
ONE Commission meeting - in a city teeming with public schools and it's supporters, resulting in a de facto gag order against critics of privatization.

Sickening.
_________________________
"Everything that has ever happened to us is there to make us stronger."
-John Trudell


Top
#1358005 --- 08/09/12 08:17 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: VM Smith]
Fart in the Wind Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 429
Loc: beneath the Utica Shale
More like an example of a newspaper putting a spin and capitalizing on a Jews vs. Nazi theme and the gullible public succumbing to a feeding frenzy against teachers and schools. Do yourselves a favor and read a few more accounts of this story and gather more information. Those of you that are over the age of15 should be able to use your critical thinking skills to determine this is nothing more than a story, that at best is about horseplay (a second boy jumping on young Yara's back) and at worst poor supervision by the teacher. Bullying? yea that is part and parcel to a Nazi theme.
How about this spin? - the Yaro family are Arabs and probably are upset that their son had to play a Jew in a historical event that never happened. Excuse me while I pull my feet out of the water.

Top
#1358009 --- 08/09/12 08:49 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: VM Smith]
Fart in the Wind Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 429
Loc: beneath the Utica Shale
[quote=VM Smith]Another good example of why it should be privatized. Why should anyone have to pay school taxes to support idiocy like this?:

Is this the solution you are looking for?

[img]http://www.ncs-nj.org/teachers/svain/holocaust/pages/jewish_teacher.htm[/img]


Edited by Fart in the Wind (08/09/12 08:58 PM)

Top
#1358078 --- 08/10/12 01:00 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind

$52,270 x 25 (years retirement) = $1,306,750 (99.99999% taxpayer funded)

here are some words for you to look up - investment, interest, collective pool


the teacher gets $1.3 million+ in pension and only has to pay in less than $15,000

must be why the teachers unions are fighting the conversion to a 401k system

need not worry the taxpayers will pay...

if your pension system was self sufficient as you claim then all other employers would offer it

notice how you and twocats can not offer a long list of employers that offer your overly generous pay, pension and benefits

enjoy your two months of taxpayer paid vacation...


Top
#1358080 --- 08/10/12 01:06 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
twocats isn't special, BZ. Under NY state tax law, pension income is not taxable in NY if it is paid from New York State or local government or the federal government, including Social Security benefits. Those pensions are subject to Federal income tax, however. Non-government pensions are not subject to state income tax on the first $20K of pension.



Originally Posted By: twocats
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Just wondering if anyone would outraged if it turned out that Romney was able to avoid paying ANY Federal or state income taxes for a number of years as has been alleged by a former associate at Bain? I still think many hard working taxpayers would find that a sour dish to eat, even if every was "legal."

That's just the American dream.


seems you two are outraged but yet you want the same tax free status...

Top
#1358082 --- 08/10/12 01:12 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
385,031 retirees and beneficiaries

The average pension for educators retiring in 2010 was $52,270


385,031 x $52,270 = $20,125,570,370

that does not include the overly generous healthcare benefits and not having to pay income taxes in their retirement

school taxes would go down by 2/3 if the teachers paid into their own 401k

Top
#1358107 --- 08/10/12 02:37 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind

$52,270 x 25 (years retirement) = $1,306,750 (99.99999% taxpayer funded)

here are some words for you to look up - investment, interest, collective pool


the teacher gets $1.3 million+ in pension and only has to pay in less than $15,000



so tell us how much the teacher paid into their pension?

Top
#1360837 --- 08/26/12 09:20 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Teonan]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Send poor performing students back to real public schools-just another tactic used by fail charter schools.

El Paso school official: Subpar students removed
Updated 12:45 p.m., Sunday, August 26, 2012

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EL PASO, Texas (AP) — An administrator at an El Paso high school has admitted he helped weed out students who could have kept the campus from meeting federal accountability standards.

Bowie High School assistant principal Johnnie Vega told the El Paso Times (http://bit.ly/ODl8pI) that he and others, fearing for their jobs, followed directives to prevent some students from enrolling, kick out others and award credits to students who should have failed courses because they didn't show up.

The newspaper's interview, published Sunday, marks the first time an El Paso school district employee has publicly admitted participating in the broad cheating scandal that has tarnished the district.

Vega said he was under pressure to make sure his campus, which had not met federal accountability standards for six straight years, avoided trouble. He said he was told by his principal to identify students who weren't progressing, were getting in trouble or had excessive absences and "locate other options" for them.

"I feel terrible," Vega said. "I have nightmares. I don't want to say that it is post-traumatic stress, but in a way it is."

Former superintendent Lorenzo Garcia pleaded guilty in June to two charges of mail fraud stemming from a scheme in which student test scores were artificially inflated to make it appear as if campuses were meeting state and federal accountability standards. He's due to be sentenced in October.

The Texas Education Agency this month lowered the district's accreditation status to probationary, the final step before accreditation can be revoked.

Vega acknowledged his role after the newspaper interviewed a family who said the administrator didn't allow three brothers to enroll at Bowie because they had too many absences and presented problems.



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/El-Pa...p#ixzz24gmPDRyw
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

Top
#1362472 --- 09/04/12 01:46 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind

$52,270 x 25 (years retirement) = $1,306,750 (99.99999% taxpayer funded)

here are some words for you to look up - investment, interest, collective pool


the teacher gets $1.3 million+ in pension and only has to pay in less than $15,000



so tell us how much the teacher paid into their pension?

Top
#1362535 --- 09/05/12 01:17 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Fart in the Wind Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 429
Loc: beneath the Utica Shale
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind

$52,270 x 25 (years retirement) = $1,306,750 (99.99999% taxpayer funded)

here are some words for you to look up - investment, interest, collective pool


the teacher gets $1.3 million+ in pension and only has to pay in less than $15,000



so tell us how much the teacher paid into their pension?



Teller of untruths your pants have combusted.

That which you seek can be found at the NYSTRS website.
______________________________________

Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. Mark Twain

Top
#1362581 --- 09/05/12 01:12 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Why teacher pension costs will keep rising
Thursday July 5, 2012 3:21 PM By E.J. McMahon

The closing bell on Wall Street last Friday also marked the end of the fiscal year for many public pension funds across the country, including the New York State Teachers' Retirement System (NYSTRS), which finances pensions promised to 420,000 active and retired professional educators working mainly for school districts outside New York City.

Like its counterparts, NYSTRS is heavily invested in publicly traded domestic corporate stocks, which make up 46 percent of its portfolio. As a result, the value of the pension fund's assets tends to move in the same direction as the S&P 500. The correlation isn’t precise; indeed, on average, the pension fund has outperformed the index. In general, however, a strong stock market equates to strong pension fund returns, and vice versa.

Last fall, NYSTRS was boasting of a “robust" return of 23.2 percent in fiscal 2011, when the S&P 500 gained 28.1 percent. But if the stock market's performance is any indication, fiscal 2012 wasn’t such a great year for the teachers' pension fund. During the 12 months ending June 29, the S&P 500 gained just 3.1 percent, excluding dividends. While the pension fund may have done better than that (it won’t get around to telling us until the fall), it seems unlikely, given the shaky state of global financial markets, that NYSTRS hit its return target of 8 percent in the fiscal year just ended. This is more bad news for the rest of us.

Even after a strong recovery in 2010 and 2011, and excluding a sub-par performance in 2012, the teacher pension fund’s average return on assets has been just 4.4 percent since 2000. This opened an enormous funding gap – which taxpayers have had to close.

Think of it this way: if NYSTRS had hit its 8 percent annual return target since the turn of the century, $100 in fund assets as of June 30, 2000, would have been worth $233 by June 30, 2011. The actual figure was $166. The pension fund’s choppy route to that mediocre return is depicted in the chart below.


Meanwhile, benefit payments have continued increasing at an average rate of 8 percent a year, more than doubling during the same period, according to NYSTRS’ annual financial reports. And this, in a nutshell, is why school districts’ pension costs have risen so much to 11.1 percent in 2012.


Ok, let’s get technical for a minute. A key factor in determining how close any pension plan comes to being fully funded is the discount rate used to calculate liabilities. This is different than the assumed rate of return; rather, the discount rate is just an expression of the cost of future liabilities today. And the higher the assumed discount rate, the less money needs to be set aside now to cover benefits promised for the future. Accounting rules dictate that corporate pension plans discount liabilities using the interest rate on low risk investments such as the yield on AAA-rated corporate bonds. That's typically 4 to 5 percent these days. By contrast, accounting standards for governments allow public pension funds to discount liabilities using the same high rate of return they hope to earn on their investments. That produces a trade-off -- pay less now, but more in the future if the goals are not met.

In a small step toward a more realistic standard, state Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli has lowered the rate-of-return assumption for the giant New York State and Local Retirement System to 7.5 percent, and New York City will soon go down to 7 percent, which is still high enough to have been compared by Mayor Bloomberg to an investment come-on from Bernie Madoff.

Wilshire Consulting, a respected firm that has done a lot of work in this area, projectsa median long-term return of 6.4 percent for state pension funds that are now assuming 8 percent. And some smart people on Wall Street aren’t optimistic about the short term, either. Goldman Sachs, for one, recently turned quite bearish, adjusting its 12-month target for the S&P 500 to 1350 -- 1 percent below Friday's close.

Last fall, the teachers’ pension fund board approved an important (but widely overlooked) update to its actual assumptions, which will affect pension costs going forward. The most important change was no change at all: as recommended by its actuary, the fund decided to stick with 8 percent. The explanation? This paragraph from the actuarial report (which is not posted online, unfortunately) is pretty much the extent of it:

"The key question is whether or not an 8.0% rate of return assumption continues to be a prudent estimate going forward. We believe it does, and do not recommend changing it at this time. It has certainly been a good estimate for the 20 years it has been in place. Logic dictates that just as we did not increase our assumption in the face of fantastic returns in the 1990s, we should not decrease it now after a poorly-returning decade."

In other words, contrary to a disclaimer that should be familiar to every investor, NYSTRS would have us believe that past performance does point to future results.

DiNapoli’s lowering of the the state and local government pension fund rate was based on an actuarial analysisthat, among other things, included 5,000 groupings of simulated returns for the pension fund over the next 30 years. The median return for those simulations was less than 7 percent—i.e., half came in higher, half lower--and there was just a 35 percent chance that the state pension fund would hit its newly reduced 7.5 percent target.

By contrast, the actuarial report for the teachers’ fund didn’t delve much into quantitative analysis of probabilities—or, for that matter, the issue of financial risk. It did significantly alter a few other assumptions affecting pension costs, though. For one thing, it said retired teachers are living longer, which would make pensions more expensive. On the other hand, it said, teachers also have been retiring a few years later, and their rate of salary growth has waned a bit. These trends would tend to bring down pension expenses.

The net result of all these factors—the 8 percent return assumption, longer life spans offset by later retirement, and slightly smaller salary hikes--is that the contribution rate collected from school districts in the fall of 2013 will be 11.5 to 12.5 percent of total teacher salaries, only slightly above the current rate. However, “this should NOT be interpreted to mean that the [employer contribution rate] has reached a plateau,” the teachers’ fund has warned school districts. “We anticipate continued future increases in the [rate] beyond this point.”

How big will those increases be? NYSTRS just won’t say. While the teacher pension fund is comfortable predicting asset returns 40 to 50 years into the future, it refuses to provide employers with useful guidance on where their pension costs might be headed within the next decade. As a result, school districts throughout the state are negotiating three to five-year teachers’ contracts without knowing how much more pensions might cost three to five years down the line.

In a December 2010 report, Josh Barro and I estimated that the contribution rate could more than double, reaching 25 percent by 2016 if the fund hit its return target in the meantime. Adjusting for the very large return in 2011, we still estimate the rate will peak at 17 percent of salaries.

In short, more misery is on the way – even as the relatively few newly hired teachers become vested in what are (for now) less expensive pension tiers created by the state in the last three years, which won’t yield significant savings for a decade. But while school districts complain that pensions are a state-mandated cost over which they have no control, they are not completely helpless – not as group, at any rate. A concerted effort by school boards to hold down salary increases could have a significant impact on long-term pension costs. How significant? Well, NYSTRS’ latest actuarial calculations dropped the assumed average salary increase from 6.51 percent to 5.61 percent a year. All by itself, the report said, this 0.9 percent reduction was enough to cut pension contribution rates by 1.61 percent of salary.

This doesn’t let the teachers’ pension fund off the hook, however. By refusing to recognize the real long-term cost of teacher pensions, and by refusing to issue long-term projections of annual required contributions, the teachers’ retirement system and its board are doing a disservice to taxpayers and retirees alike.

Top
#1363100 --- 09/09/12 06:02 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Fart in the Wind]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
Teller of untruths your pants have combusted.


_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

Top
#1363175 --- 09/10/12 02:04 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind

$52,270 x 25 (years retirement) = $1,306,750 (99.99999% taxpayer funded)

here are some words for you to look up - investment, interest, collective pool


the teacher gets $1.3 million+ in pension and only has to pay in less than $15,000



so tell us how much the teacher paid into their pension?



Teller of untruths your pants have combusted.



prove otherwise...

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