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#1357526 --- 08/07/12 04:06 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
I did it! Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1960
Loc: West Coast 29 Palms
does this mean the teens 13 yrs of age also from ? where ever?
They need to be put into a home with their babies and both attend some education together. Never to young or old to learn.
Make the fathers pay support,force them to hold a job of some sort. They made the choice let them pay the bills also,nothing is free.
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“The manner in which it is given is worth more than the gift”.

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#1357536 --- 08/07/12 10:48 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: twocats
One popular movement believes merit pay would improve education. Here's a short post by Dianne Ravitch on merit pay:

One Reason Why Merit Pay Fails
August 5, 2012 //
3
The assumption behind merit pay is that teachers are not trying hard enough.

The assumption is that a cash bonus will make them care and prod them to work harder and get those test scores up.

For 100 years, school boards at the state and local level have tried merit pay and it has always failed to produce higher test scores.

There are many reasons for this.

One is that merit pay is intrinsically insulting. It presumes that it takes a cash prize to incentivize lazy teachers.

But when there are two groups, one offered merit pay, the other not, they seem to get the same results.

That’s because the teachers in both groups are doing the best they can to get their students to learn.

As one teacher commented today:

Yup, once I’m eligible for merit pay I’ll bring out my really good lesson plans, until then, they’re staying in my desk!


So donn't call it merit pay. Call it paying good teachers what they are worth. Not sure why the unions will not support their good teachers?


Edited by cwjga (08/07/12 10:49 AM)

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#1357781 --- 08/08/12 05:48 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
A 5 second search gave me a number of over 360,000 retired state and local employees.


you found the number of special ones

now find the number of not so special ones

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#1357782 --- 08/08/12 05:52 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: twocats
One popular movement believes merit pay would improve education.


just eliminate the poor performing teachers

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#1357785 --- 08/08/12 06:02 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
twocats isn't special, BZ. Under NY state tax law, pension income is not taxable in NY if it is paid from New York State or local government or the federal government, including Social Security benefits. Those pensions are subject to Federal income tax, however. Non-government pensions are not subject to state income tax on the first $20K of pension.


Quote:
Pity poor teachers who have to retire on $62K

most private-sector employees don't have guaranteed pensions. They retire on their 401(k) or IRA savings. So what amount would be needed to produce $42,000 from an annuity? About $425,000, according to a calculator at Bankrate.com. And the average 401(k) account balance at Fidelity Investments for people 55 and over is about half that amount, or $243,000.


so tell us how much per month does one without a teachers pension need to set aside each month to have $425,000 after 30 years of employment?

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#1357789 --- 08/08/12 06:30 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
A 5 second search gave me a number of over 360,000 retired state and local employees.


you found the number of special ones

now find the number of not so special ones
You're the one who's obsessed with this idea, BZ, so go find it yourself. My bet is that you're whining about this because it doesn't apply to you. Again, if it bothers you that much, get off your butt and start lobbying your state representatives to change the law.



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#1357795 --- 08/08/12 07:01 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS


OMG You owe me a new laptop---flying Red Bull injected deep into the keyboard may cause irreversible damage!
I just may make that pic my new avatar!
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1357796 --- 08/08/12 07:03 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
So don't call it merit pay. Call it paying good teachers what they are worth. Not sure why the unions will not support their good teachers?

Just wondering?


Edited by cwjga (08/08/12 07:03 PM)

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#1357804 --- 08/08/12 07:20 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
I did it! Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 1960
Loc: West Coast 29 Palms
sweet Lord do the math. "so tell us how much per month does one without a teachers pension need to set aside each month to have $425,000 after 30 years of employment?
Try dividing $425,000. by 30 and I`m sure the answer will pop right up at you. Bet you`ll get 14166.6666667 you most likely do not clear 14 grand to be able to save it? So do not worry just move on. What you done complaining about us American Indians for a change? GET A JOB
_________________________
“The manner in which it is given is worth more than the gift”.

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#1357814 --- 08/08/12 08:05 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: I did it!]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: I did it!
sweet Lord do the math. "so tell us how much per month does one without a teachers pension need to set aside each month to have $425,000 after 30 years of employment?
Try dividing $425,000. by 30 and I`m sure the answer will pop right up at you. Bet you`ll get 14166.6666667 you most likely do not clear 14 grand to be able to save it? So do not worry just move on. What you done complaining about us American Indians for a change? GET A JOB


What? I asked Twocats why Unions will not support good teachers getting higher salaries.
What has that got to do with pensions and american indians?



Edited by cwjga (08/08/12 08:05 PM)

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#1357852 --- 08/09/12 12:58 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
Fart in the Wind Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 429
Loc: beneath the Utica Shale
...and what percentage of NY workers are in this 'special' group?
20%, 40%, 60%, 80%...? [/quote]I don't know, but then I'm not the one whining about this. If you're that concerned, get off your butt, do some homework to see if you have a supportable case, then start contacting your representatives and lobby for a change... easier to just sit around and whine about it on the internet?

Overall membership in NYSLRS (New York State and Local Retirement System): 1,057,754
672,723 members (active or vested)
385,031 retirees and beneficiaries
94% are members of ERS; 6% are members of PFRS (police and firemen)
Average Pensions:
Average pension for all ERS retirees in FY 2011: $19,151 (over generous?)
Average pension for all PFRS retirees in FY 2011: $40,932

NYSTRS (Teachers)pensions in 2010:
The average for all retirees was $38,924. The average pension for educators retiring in 2010 was $52,270 (includes administrators).
Note - $38,924 not the $60,000 Gilbert Gottfried keeps pulling from his blue butt.

Most of which is put back into the NYS economy and not an offshore bank account as some would lead you to believe. LOL

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#1357912 --- 08/09/12 12:45 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
NYSTRS (Teachers)pensions in 2010:
The average for all retirees was $38,924. The average pension for educators retiring in 2010 was $52,270 (includes administrators).
Note - $38,924 not the $60,000 Gilbert Gottfried keeps pulling from his blue butt.


and how much of that did you pay into?

$52,270 x 25 (years retirement) = $1,306,750 (99.99999% taxpayer funded)

just convert to a 401k like everyone else


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#1357914 --- 08/09/12 12:50 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
A 5 second search gave me a number of over 360,000 retired state and local employees.


you found the number of special ones

now find the number of not so special ones
You're the one who's obsessed with this idea, BZ, so go find it yourself.


no sweety as you are the one that said it was a large number but then backtracked

your posts below


Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
(though that seems to be an awfully large group to be considered special).


I don't know,


then how do you know it is an awfully large group if you do not know the percentage?


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#1357919 --- 08/09/12 01:02 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
twocats isn't special, BZ. Under NY state tax law, pension income is not taxable in NY if it is paid from New York State or local government or the federal government, including Social Security benefits. Those pensions are subject to Federal income tax, however. Non-government pensions are not subject to state income tax on the first $20K of pension.



Originally Posted By: twocats
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Just wondering if anyone would outraged if it turned out that Romney was able to avoid paying ANY Federal or state income taxes for a number of years as has been alleged by a former associate at Bain? I still think many hard working taxpayers would find that a sour dish to eat, even if every was "legal."

That's just the American dream.


was he a teacher?

pot meet kettle...

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#1357921 --- 08/09/12 01:09 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Not sure why the unions will not support their good teachers?


they have far more underperforming ones


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#1357932 --- 08/09/12 02:00 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Fart in the Wind Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 429
Loc: beneath the Utica Shale

$52,270 x 25 (years retirement) = $1,306,750 (99.99999% taxpayer funded)

Nice job bluenose! I think we have a break through in your illogical half truth and preconceived notions. I am only responding to you because you finally have admitted you are wrong.

Now Re 99.99999% - here are some words for you to look up - investment, interest, collective pool
Keep studying I know you can figure this out eventually. You are showing potential.

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#1357934 --- 08/09/12 02:09 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
NYSTRS (Teachers)pensions in 2010:
The average for all retirees was $38,924. The average pension for educators retiring in 2010 was $52,270 (includes administrators).
Note - $38,924 not the $60,000 Gilbert Gottfried keeps pulling from his blue butt.


and how much of that did you pay in?

should be simple unless you want to hide the facts...


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#1357937 --- 08/09/12 02:12 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind

$52,270 x 25 (years retirement) = $1,306,750 (99.99999% taxpayer funded)

Nice job bluenose! I think we have a break through in your illogical half truth and preconceived notions. I am only responding to you because you finally have admitted you are wrong.


I have said all along your pensions are overly generous and you just proved it

how much of your overly generous $1 million+ pension did you pay in?

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#1357940 --- 08/09/12 02:29 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Fart in the Wind]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Fart in the Wind
illogical half truth and preconceived notions.

investment, interest, collective pool


did you forget 'teacher contribution'?

tell us how a $1,500 yearly 'contribution' for ten years by a teacher can grow to be a $1.3 million+ pension?

even madoff was not that good

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#1357941 --- 08/09/12 02:34 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY

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