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#1346751 --- 05/27/12 03:38 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: VM Smith]
twocats Offline
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Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: VM Smith

(NaturalNews) A former student at Perryton High School in Perryton, Texas, has filed a lawsuit against the school's district for injuries he allegedly suffered during a teacher-mandated reenactment of the Holocaust. According to the suit, Andrew Yara, now 19, suffered a partially dislocated hip, dehydration, and a series of seizures after being forced to carry around several heavy student on his back as part of the bizarre education experiment.

For a number of years now, Perryton High School has observed a two-day remembrance of the Holocaust known as "Red Ribbon Day," during which time students taking a world history class are taught the grim details of this sobering scourge on human history. But part of this educational experience includes dividing students up into groups of "Nazis" and "Jews," and forcing the "Jews" to withstand numerous forms of abuse from the "Nazis."


That's just wrong on so many levels.
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#1347247 --- 05/31/12 02:40 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Williams describes teachers unions in general as “beneficiaries of the failed status quo” who “obstruct and resist education reform whenever and however it is tried.”


all they want are raises and more overly generous benefits without any evalutions

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#1347272 --- 05/31/12 11:52 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Williams describes teachers unions in general as “beneficiaries of the failed status quo” who “obstruct and resist education reform whenever and however it is tried.”


all they want are raises and more overly generous benefits without any evalutions




Nothing will change because they do not want change. Rather than talking about improvements they could make they spend wasted time complaining about other schools.

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#1348691 --- 06/12/12 01:51 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: cwjga]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
a discussion on the national news had an individual ask why do the teachers even need unions as they do not help the students

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#1348697 --- 06/12/12 02:05 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 5389
Loc: Malmö
Really? It must be a slow news day if they're resorting to that tripe.
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#1352288 --- 07/08/12 05:14 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Teonan]
twocats Offline
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Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Louisiana Republican: When I Voted for State Funds to go to Religious Schools, I Didn’t Mean Muslim Ones
July 5, 2012 By Hemant Mehta 632 Comments
In Louisiana, Republican Governor Bobby Jindal pushed for a voucher program that would allow state funds to be used to pay for religious schools. It’s unconstitutional, it’s a way to use taxpayer money to fund someone’s faith, and it was a bad idea to begin with.
But it passed.
Now, one of the state legislators, Rep. Valarie Hodges (R-Watson), just made a shocking discovery, though: Christianity isn’t the only religion!

Rep. Valarie Hodges, R-Watson, says she had no idea that Gov. Bobby Jindal’s overhaul of the state’s educational system might mean taxpayer support of Muslim schools.
“I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or private schools,” the District 64 Representative said Monday.

“Unfortunately it will not be limited to the Founders’ religion,” Hodges said. “We need to insure that it does not open the door to fund radical Islam schools. There are a thousand Muslim schools that have sprung up recently. I do not support using public funds for teaching Islam anywhere here in Louisiana.”
Wait, we’re teaching the “Founders’ religion”? I can’t wait to see those Deistic schools popping up everywhere…
I can’t decide whether the staffers at Americans United are collectively rolling their eyes or shaking their heads in disbelief, but they’re right to suggest “We told you so”:
Where to begin? Hodges’ bigotry is perhaps only rivaled by her ignorance of constitutional and legal principles. Of course Muslim schools will qualify for funding under a voucher plan. When programs like this are set up that dole out benefits to religious schools, the government can’t play favorites. That’s basic.

Some legislators aren’t comfortable funding Muslim schools. What’s to be done? How about not establishing these programs in the first place? Let Muslims fund Muslim schools. Let Catholics fund Catholics ones. Let fundamentalist Protestants pay for the conservative Christian academies and so on.
Rep. Hodges made the mistake of saying out loud what most conservative Christians only say to themselves to private: When they say they want “religious freedom,” they’re only referring to their own faith. Everyone else can fend for themselves.
Message to Rep. Hodges: Your Christian privilege is showing.
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#1352293 --- 07/08/12 06:07 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
Josephus Offline
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Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
LOL! Love it! As I was reading, I was also wondering about those Deistic schools. ;\)
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#1352520 --- 07/10/12 12:14 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: twocats]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Quote:
America Has Too Many Teachers
Public-school employees have doubled in 40 years while student enrollment has increased by only 8.5%—and academic results have stagnated.

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#1352531 --- 07/10/12 12:52 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
Yeah. Let's reduce the number of teachers and triple the number of students in a class. That should improve our educational system, right? And if it results in more students failing, who cares? We've saved some money, right?

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#1352532 --- 07/10/12 01:20 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7644
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Yeah. Let's reduce the number of teachers and triple the number of students in a class. That should improve our educational system, right? And if it results in more students failing, who cares? We've saved some money, right?
Maybe we need to pass out more free birth control.

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#1353625 --- 07/16/12 10:53 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
twocats Offline
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Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Nick Trombetta, Pennsylvania Cyber Charter School Founder, Has Office Raided By FBI Agents
Posted: 07/13/2012 3:46 pm Updated: 07/13/2012 3:46 pm


FBI agents on Thursday raided the office of Pennsylvania Charter Cyber School founder Nick Trombetta, who is suspected of misusing Pennsylvania tax dollars to fund his out-of-state ventures, KDKA News reports.

The FBI raided the administrative offices of PA Cyber and other ventures founded by Trombetta, including the Avanti Management Group -- a for-profit consultant firm based in Ohio.

The Pennsylvania Cyber Charter School, founded in 2000, enrolled more than 11,300 students in the 2011-12 academic year and has an annual budget of more than $100 million. Critics say the $10,000 the school receives for each child far exceeds the cost of educating a student online, and that the excess money has gone to other Trombetta ventures such as the National Network of Digital Schools and the Lincoln Interactive, which develops and markets online curriculum.

These ventures have spawned cyber schools nationwide, and a federal investigation is now underway to determine if Trombetta personally profited.

According to the Herald Star, Trombetta and several educational organizations under his oversight have been the subject of state grand jury investigations in the past. These include the Midland School District -- of which he was the superintendent, PA Cyber, Lincoln Park Performing Arts Center and the National Network of Digital Schools in Calcutta.

Trombetta announced in May that he was leaving the school to "try something else," according to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.


Edited by twocats (07/16/12 10:54 PM)
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#1353642 --- 07/17/12 12:16 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: ]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Yeah. Let's reduce the number of teachers and triple the number of students in a class. That should improve our educational system, right? And if it results in more students failing, who cares? We've saved some money, right?
Maybe we need to pass out more free birth control.
Actually Harley, that's a good idea! I'd give you credit for being more enlightened but I know it was an unintended error... even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then. Fewer teen pregnancies would have a positive effect on education overall.

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#1353654 --- 07/17/12 01:06 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 35891
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Cuzi Sedso
Yeah. Let's reduce the number of teachers and triple the number of students in a class. That should improve our educational system, right?


so why has student performance declined while the number of teachers has doubled?

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#1353664 --- 07/17/12 02:49 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: bluezone]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
I don't know. But if you're suggesting that increasing the number of teachers is responsible for the drop in student performance, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. If it were true that reducing the number of teachers would improve student performance, then we should expect to see increasing performance as the number of teachers approaches zero -- at that point the students should all be successful and there would be no need for teachers or schools at all!!!

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#1354369 --- 07/20/12 01:09 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Cuzi Sedso]
BigRed Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 218
Loc: ny
The fact of the matter is that too many of the people who go into teaching do it for summers off and good benefits. And the free time it gives them to post here while sitting in class.

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#1354370 --- 07/20/12 01:13 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: BigRed]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
I can't say that there aren't some teachers like the ones you describe, but let's face it -- there are less than competent, poorly motivated people in just about any occupation. I agree that teachers like that need to be replaced, but simply cutting back on all teaching positions is ill advised, in my opinion.

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#1354387 --- 07/20/12 01:43 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: BigRed]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: BigRed
The fact of the matter is that too many of the people who go into teaching do it for summers off and good benefits. And the free time it gives them to post here while sitting in class.

Yeah... sort of like the fact that too many people make a career out of the military because they can retire before age 40.

You don't suppose there might be another reason why people go into teaching, do you...
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#1354851 --- 07/23/12 03:27 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Josephus]
Spanky Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 1497
Loc: Seneca Falls NY Seneca
Still can't figure out why we had 32 people in my class from k-12 and we could all read and write and add and subtract and we knew where all the cities in the US were located and where most of the countries were. We even knew how to spell ,write clearly. and how to use nouns,verbs,etc-etc. Man, we were old fashioned, only one coach,one principal, no super's, no aids,no monitors, no Bocces, no counselor's. WOW, we were old fashioned, but we were way ahead of any student of nowdays. That's why a high school education then was better than many of our college grads of today. Get the teachers to teach, and forget about the computers,cell phones, and all the other gadgets which are used to so called make it easier. Had a recent high school grad tell me I was wrong on figuring out a sale of a few items. I sold nine items for six dollars. Grad told me I sold each item for a dollar fifty. I said, if I sold nine items for a dollar, I would have collected nine dollars. He whipped out his cell phone and used it research his figures and he said he was right Must be the new math. nuff said.

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#1354856 --- 07/23/12 07:48 AM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Spanky]
Josephus Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 11561
Loc: NYS
Yes, I remember having classes of 30 students or so too. I've always thought that the differencdee today is the environment the average student is growing in today, versus say forty years ago. Maybe students aren't being forced to do their homework by their parents today? Maybe they're not getting as much sleep as students did years ago? I don't think the problem is cell phones because I'm pretty sure they aren't allowed to be used in classes.
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#1354886 --- 07/23/12 01:33 PM Re: Yeahhh...Let's Privatize It [Re: Spanky]
Cuzi Sedso Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: NY
I can see where you and Josephus are coming from, Spanky. Like both of you, my classes were in the range of 25-35 (it was more varied in high school, depending on the subject). I would say it was an average school system, but not overly large like some of the schools in metropolitan areas -- there were 262 kids in my HS graduating class. All the kids in my classes were able to read and write proficiently, and do basic math, but I can't that was true for all 262 of us as we left high school. There were still a number who still couldn't string together five sentences in a paragraph to make a coherent statement without any spelling or grammatical errors. Some still had difficulty grasping the concept of percentages. Some still had difficulty reading (or at least didn't read much above the 8th or 9th grade level).

I can't see any reason why kids today are any less intelligent than they were 50, 60, or even 100 years ago. Nor do I see any reason to think that teachers are less intelligent or less competent either. In my high school, we had a principal, vice principal, two or three guidance counselors, a school psychologist (who also served the elementary and junior high schools) and a school nurse. Other than that, I don't remember a plethora of aides, teaching assistants, and administrative personnel, but perhaps they weren't in my classes or I just wasn't aware of what was going on behind the scenes. Nevertheless, I have to agree that our school systems have gotten much more complex in their efforts to somehow make every student "college ready."

Our school systems are still turning out really smart and capable students (the ones at the top of the curve) as well as less than capable students (those at the left side of the curve). What's happened, I think, is that over time, the curve has skewed to the left. The "average" student today doesn't match up to his/her counterpart of 50 to 60 years ago in terms of academic achievement or knowledge. I believe that the causes for that shift don't lie in student ability or teacher competence or lack of resources. I think it has more to do with societal changes and a shift in values in our society.

Education is not valued the same way it was in years past. Instead, we have allowed money and fame to become the paramount goals for kids, and the role models for our kids seem to be those who are famous or make the most money. Never mind that many of those celebrities may be ignorant, lack the reasoning skills or moral/ethical standards of a gerbil -- what seems to be important that they make millions of dollars, without any discernible benefit of an education. To be sure, this doesn't apply to all celebs, but it applies to enough that kids can reasonably question why they should work hard and study.

In our society, football coaches are paid more than university presidents. Athletic budgets are higher than academic departments. I remember reading once that Mickey Mantle never earned more than $100,000 a year. Compare that to today where hundreds of professional athletes (MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, etc) have multi million dollar contracts. To be sure, they are highly skilled, but why does our society place more value on being able to do something with a ball than scientific research? I also remember seeing Rosie O'Donnell on a game show a number of years ago. She was asked what country was Great Britain's opponent in the Falklands War. I can understand that she didn't know it was Argentina, but when she was told the correct answer she laughed and said "I don't even know what continent that's on!" The audience cheered. Such a celebration of ignorance is all too commonplace in our society.

And so, the reason "Johnny Can't Read" may have less to do with the kids, the school system, the methods used, the teachers, etc., than our society itself. As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

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