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#1333325 --- 03/17/12 02:40 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Ayuveda]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
not sovereign
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#1333326 --- 03/17/12 02:42 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: kyle585
But leaders of the Iroquois Nationals squad announced Saturday that a last-ditch attempt to persuade British officials to recognize their passports had failed, meaning the team wouldn't play in its last scheduled game.


sue the british
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#1333331 --- 03/17/12 03:04 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
Ayuveda Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Sovereign Nations
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#1333333 --- 03/17/12 03:12 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Ayuveda]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Quote:
John Stossel: Freeloading doesn't help the freeloader Indians
Wednesday, March 30, 2011


"No group has been more "helped" by the American government than American Indians. Yet no group in America does worse.

Almost a quarter of Native Americans live in poverty. 66 percent are born to single mothers. They have short life spans. Indian activists say the solution is -surprise- more money from the government. But Washington already spends about $13 billion on programs for Indians every year.

There are special programs in 20 different Departments and Agencies: Empowering Tribal Nations Initiative, Advancing Nation to Nation Relationships, Protecting Indian Country, Improving Trust Land Management, New Energy Frontier Initiative, Climate Change Adaptation Initiative, Construction, Improving Trust Management, Tribal Priority Allocations, Resolving Land and Water Claims, Indian Land Consolidation Program. This is just a partial list.

I say government already does too much. Indians would be better off without government handouts. I have evidence: tribes not recognized by the federal government, tribes that get no special help, often do better
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#1333334 --- 03/17/12 03:12 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Ayuveda]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Quote:
Court sides with Sherrill
Supreme Court justices rule 8-1
Oneida Nation must pay tax to city
Wed, Mar 30, 2005
R. PATRICK CORBETT Observer-Dispatch

The Oneida Indian Nation must pay taxes on its property in the city of Sherrill and potentially on all land it has bought outside of its 32-acre reservation in Madison County, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled Tuesday . In an 8-1 decision, the court ruled that the New York Oneidas cannot disrupt two centuries of local development by refusing to pay local taxes on a gas station and T-shirt factory it owns in Sherrill in Oneida County. New York City lawyer Ira Sacks, who pleaded Sherrill's case pro bono, said, "We were very pleased. The Supreme Court agreed with the principal argument that after 200 years ... the Oneida Indian Nation can't pick and choose places to buy and take it out of local jurisdiction." The justices also remarked on the "distinctly non-Indian character of the area and its inhabitants," because most Oneida Indians moved out of the area about 150 years ago.


rescind the treaty as the tribe is in violation
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#1333336 --- 03/17/12 03:15 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
Ayuveda Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Quote:
Court sides with Sherrill
Supreme Court justices rule 8-1
Oneida Nation must pay tax to city
Wed, Mar 30, 2005
R. PATRICK CORBETT Observer-Dispatch

The Oneida Indian Nation must pay taxes on its property in the city of Sherrill and potentially on all land it has bought outside of its 32-acre reservation in Madison County, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled Tuesday . In an 8-1 decision, the court ruled that the New York Oneidas cannot disrupt two centuries of local development by refusing to pay local taxes on a gas station and T-shirt factory it owns in Sherrill in Oneida County. New York City lawyer Ira Sacks, who pleaded Sherrill's case pro bono, said, "We were very pleased. The Supreme Court agreed with the principal argument that after 200 years ... the Oneida Indian Nation can't pick and choose places to buy and take it out of local jurisdiction." The justices also remarked on the "distinctly non-Indian character of the area and its inhabitants," because most Oneida Indians moved out of the area about 150 years ago.


rescind the treaty as the tribe is in violation



Sovereign Nations

Ain't happening homie.


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#1333337 --- 03/17/12 03:24 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Ayuveda]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Quote:
Court sides with Sherrill
Supreme Court justices rule 8-1
Oneida Nation must pay tax to city
Wed, Mar 30, 2005
R. PATRICK CORBETT Observer-Dispatch

The Oneida Indian Nation must pay taxes on its property in the city of Sherrill and potentially on all land it has bought outside of its 32-acre reservation in Madison County, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled Tuesday . In an 8-1 decision, the court ruled that the New York Oneidas cannot disrupt two centuries of local development by refusing to pay local taxes on a gas station and T-shirt factory it owns in Sherrill in Oneida County. New York City lawyer Ira Sacks, who pleaded Sherrill's case pro bono, said, "We were very pleased. The Supreme Court agreed with the principal argument that after 200 years ... the Oneida Indian Nation can't pick and choose places to buy and take it out of local jurisdiction." The justices also remarked on the "distinctly non-Indian character of the area and its inhabitants," because most Oneida Indians moved out of the area about 150 years ago.
rescind the treaty as the tribe is in violation
Sovereign Nations

Ain't happening homie.
They are in violation of an order of the Supreme Court of the United States of America! And they left the area 150 years ago! And we allow them to get away with this? That is total BS.
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#1333338 --- 03/17/12 03:26 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
http://www.citizensalliance.org.

Tribal activists often claim a favored provision out of a single treaty while ignoring other provisions of the same treaty and also later treaties, agreements, laws and the Constitution with its Amendments. They then attack anyone who objects to this simplistic approach as anti-treaty and anti-Indian, and there are some very significant later laws and constitutional provisions that impact treaty interpretations.

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#1333339 --- 03/17/12 03:27 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: kyle585
They are in violation of an order of the Supreme Court of the United States of America! And we allow them to get away with it? That is total BS.


Gasp! Oh no!

The Supreme Court once said that segregation in schools was legal (separate, but equal). The Supreme Court is not infallible.
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Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1333340 --- 03/17/12 03:28 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
Ayuveda Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Native American tribes who refuse by all laws of America are enemies of the US just like North Korea and Iran.



Suggesting drones or bunker busters?
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#1333341 --- 03/17/12 03:29 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: twocats]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: twocats
Originally Posted By: kyle585
They are in violation of an order of the Supreme Court of the United States of America! And we allow them to get away with it? That is total BS.
Gasp! Oh no!

The Supreme Court once said that segregation in schools was legal (separate, but equal). The Supreme Court is not infallible.
Do you think the SC is wrong here?
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#1333342 --- 03/17/12 03:30 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Ayuveda]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Native American tribes who refuse by all laws of America are enemies of the US just like North Korea and Iran.
Suggesting drones or bunker busters?
I suggest the same punishment as all other American citizens who break the law. They go to jail.
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1333343 --- 03/17/12 03:31 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Ayuveda]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda

There are three kinds of sovereign governments in the United States. Under the Constitution, the federal government is the “supreme sovereign,” and federal laws can pre-empt state laws. State governments also are sovereign; they retain any powers not specifically given to the federal government under the Constitution.

Only Congress can limit tribal sovereign authority; in the absence of congressional action, tribes are, in the words of the Supreme Court, “domestic dependent nations,’ which exercise inherent sovereign authority over their members and territories.”²


not sovereign


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#1333352 --- 03/17/12 03:45 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: twocats
Originally Posted By: kyle585
They are in violation of an order of the Supreme Court of the United States of America! And we allow them to get away with it? That is total BS.
Gasp! Oh no!

The Supreme Court once said that segregation in schools was legal (separate, but equal). The Supreme Court is not infallible.
Do you think the SC is wrong here?


I don't know enough about the issue to even begin to form an opinion on whether the court is right or wrong, but I do know that in order to change a law that is 'wrong' or unjust, oftentimes, someone must break it.


Edited by twocats (03/17/12 03:45 PM)
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#1333353 --- 03/17/12 03:46 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
Ayuveda Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Wrong homie.

Haudenosaunee "People of the Longhouse" Sovereign Nations.




Inherent Sovereignty

There are three kinds of sovereign governments in the United States. Under the Constitution, the federal government is the “supreme sovereign,” and federal laws can pre-empt state laws. State governments also are sovereign; they retain any powers not specifically given to the federal government under the Constitution.

The third kind of sovereignty is inherent. That means the authority to govern is not granted by another government, but by the consent of the people who are governed. Indian tribal governments, which existed long before Europeans arrived on the North American continent, have inherent sovereignty.

There are several generally accepted criteria for inherent sovereignty:
• There must be a distinct group of people, with a distinct language, a distinct religious or moral structure, and a distinct culture.

• The group must control and regulate a distinct geographic area, with commonly understood and accepted boundaries.

• The group must have its own governmental structure, formed by its own people, with typical governmental authority to create and enforce laws.

• The government must be recognized by another sovereign. For example, the United States recognizes the governments of Canada, Mexico, Great Britain, France, China, etc., as well as the governments of more than 500 Indian nations.

Centuries before the Europeans arrived in North America, Indian tribes had satisfied these criteria and dealt with each other on a government-to-government basis. By making treaties with the tribes, the European governments and later the U.S. government recognized their inherent sovereignty, which predates the federal and state governments.

Therefore, tribal sovereignty is not bestowed upon Indian governments by treaty. Rather, it is recognized by those treaties, and powers not explicitly addressed by treaty or by act of Congress are reserved to the Indian tribe. This “reserved rights doctrine” was spelled out in U.S. v. Winans (1905), involving treaty-recognized off-reservation fishing rights. The Supreme Court said that treaties represent “not a grant of rights to the Indians, but a grant of rights from them – a reservation of those not granted.”

Several court rulings have recognized and affirmed the existence of inherent sovereignty for Indian tribes. In Worcester v. Georgia (1832), Chief Justice Marshall wrote: “The Constitution, by declaring treaties already made, as well as those to be made, to be the supreme law of the land, has adopted and sanctioned the previous treaties with the Indian nations, and consequently admits their rank among those powers who are capable of making treaties.” Nearly 150 years later, in United States v. Wheeler (1978), the U.S. Supreme Court reaffirmed inherent tribal sovereignty: “Although physically within the territory of the United States and subject to ultimate federal control, they nonetheless remain a separate people, with the power of regulating their internal and social relations… The powers of Indian tribes are, in general, ‘inherent powers of a limited sovereignty which has never been extinguished.’” (Emphasis in original)

And in a 1982 tax case, Justice Thurgood Marshall wrote that Indian tribal sovereignty, though different from the sovereignty enjoyed by federal and state governments, should be judged by the same principles: “Without regard to its source, sovereign power, even when unexercised, is an enduring presence … and will remain intact unless surrendered in unmistakable terms.”¹

Only Congress can limit tribal sovereign authority; in the absence of congressional action, tribes are, in the words of the Supreme Court, “domestic dependent nations,’ which exercise inherent sovereign authority over their members and territories.”²

—————

1 Merrion v. Jicarilla Apache Tribe, 455 U.S. 148 (1982).
2 Oklahoma Tax Commission v. Citizen Band Potawatomi Indian Tribe, 498 U.S. 505, 509 (1991).
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#1333354 --- 03/17/12 03:49 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Ayuveda]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda

Several court rulings have recognized and affirmed...

1 Merrion v. Jicarilla Apache Tribe, 455 U.S. 148 (1982).
2 Oklahoma Tax Commission v. Citizen Band Potawatomi Indian Tribe, 498 U.S. 505, 509 (1991).


only apply the court rulings that suit your needs...

_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1333356 --- 03/17/12 03:50 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Quote:
Court sides with Sherrill
Supreme Court justices rule 8-1
Oneida Nation must pay tax to city
Wed, Mar 30, 2005


the tribe is in violation

all the oneida cigs shops are illegal
turning stone is illegal
the oneida tribe is behind in their $500 million proeprty tax bill
the oneida tribe does not qualify for trust land

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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1333358 --- 03/17/12 03:55 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
Ayuveda Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda

Several court rulings have recognized and affirmed...

1 Merrion v. Jicarilla Apache Tribe, 455 U.S. 148 (1982).
2 Oklahoma Tax Commission v. Citizen Band Potawatomi Indian Tribe, 498 U.S. 505, 509 (1991).


only apply the court rulings that suit your needs...



By any means necessary. Tough it out settler.

Solidarity with indigenous people.
_________________________
Sometimes, tear gas can make you see better.
-graffiti in Athens


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#1333359 --- 03/17/12 03:57 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Ayuveda]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Solidarity with indigenous people.


while you enjoy the american dream...
yet another contradition on your part

yawn...
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"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1333360 --- 03/17/12 04:00 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Ayuveda]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Tough it out settler.


you are the same
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