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#1337056 - 04/07/12 09:57 PM
Re: Findings against Tburg Teacher
[Re: twocats]
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VM Smith
Diamond Member
Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 34606
Loc: Reality
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I'd guess that there were no criminal charges because there were no injuries. For all we know, there was no intent to harm, only inappropriate horseplay.
Assault and battery doesn't require injury, I think, and it doesn't require intent to injure; I think that would be aggravated assault and battery.
I think all that's required is that you, say, push someone, or even just put your hands on him. Kicking a student should suffice. Even if the student or his parents didn't want to press charges, I think the school or cops should have, just as they do in domestic cases, assuming they could have. Where's Sands?
And with all the meddling schools do in students' lives, they sure act as if they are in loco parentis, even if they legally aren't. Do you know anything about that law?
Edited by VM Smith (04/07/12 09:58 PM)
_________________________
It's never too late to be who you might have been.
George Elliot
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#1337065 - 04/07/12 10:41 PM
Re: Findings against Tburg Teacher
[Re: twocats]
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VM Smith
Diamond Member
Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 34606
Loc: Reality
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My favorite smart cop has educated me, and cured my ignorance. On this point, anyway. 
"Assault requires "Physical injury". Someone who, "strikes, shoves, kicks" or otherwise subjects another person to physical contact is guilty of harassment. "Physical injury" is defined as, "impairment of physical condition or substantial pain."
BUT...
A teacher (or parent) is different.
§ 35.10 Justification; use of physical force generally.
The use of physical force upon another person which would otherwise constitute an offense is justifiable and not criminal under any of the following circumstances:
1. A parent, guardian or other person entrusted with the care and supervision of a person under the age of twenty-one or an incompetent person, and a teacher or other person entrusted with the care and supervision of a person under the age of twenty-one for a special purpose, may use physical force, but not deadly physical force, upon such person when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it necessary to maintain discipline or to promote the welfare of such person."
Lots of wiggle room for teachers there, and I don't like that, but it's the law. The "maintain discipline" might include a kick in the butt, or a cuff on the ear. Perhaps you're wrong about corporal punishment in NYS schools. IOW, I think that using force to maintain discipline is tantamount to using corporal punishment to get the message across.
Of course, I don't know what the kid did; I just don't think teachers should strike or kick any student, unless physically threatened. If it's mere insubordination, disobedience, or mouthiness, then throw the kid out.
Perhaps the kid did some or all of those things, and that's why the 'rents didn't press. IOW, they could see the teacher's side of it, and thought administrative punishment was enough.
_________________________
It's never too late to be who you might have been.
George Elliot
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#1337304 - 04/09/12 12:57 PM
Re: Findings against Tburg Teacher
[Re: twocats]
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VM Smith
Diamond Member
Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 34606
Loc: Reality
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A kick in the butt sounds like horseplay to me, inappropriate and unacceptable, but nonetheless, horseplay.
So, if the student had kicked the teacher in the butt, that would be okay with you? With him? If it's not okay, and from what you say, it's unacceptable, and if it doesn't cut both ways, if it's one person direction something at another, and it's not asked for or agreed upon, then it's not horseplay; it's abuse.
Coitus, similarly, if it's mutually agreed upon, is merely sex; if it's not mutually agreed upon, it's rape.
Edited by VM Smith (04/09/12 01:25 PM)
_________________________
It's never too late to be who you might have been.
George Elliot
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#1337486 - 04/10/12 02:52 PM
Re: Findings against Tburg Teacher
[Re: twocats]
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VM Smith
Diamond Member
Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 34606
Loc: Reality
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A kick in the butt sounds like horseplay to me, inappropriate and unacceptable, but nonetheless, horseplay. So, if the student had kicked the teacher in the butt, that would be okay with you? Now come on, VM, it isn't like you to make illogical leaps like this. Of course it's not okay for the student or the teacher. If the student did it, I would expect the teacher to take appropriate disciplinary action.
I don't think it's illogical; it was merely a rhetorical question, designed to induce you to say:
Of course it's not okay for the student [or] the teacher.
And if the student did it, I'd expect him or his family to take appropriate disciplinary action, same as I would expect the teacher to do. In either case, I think an assault and battery charge is the appropriate action. The law, at least when the teacher does it, precludes that. I think the law is wrong.
If it's mutually agreed upon, then it's horseplay; if not, assault and battery, in my mind. The facts that he kicked an already injured kid in the back and butt area, and that that was found to be "conduct unbecoming...", leads me to believe that it was not mutually agreed upon, because there was a complaint, an investigation, and a negative finding.
The teacher is not the kid's parent. Except for self defense, or to protect another, the teacher should keep his hands and feet off the kids, and just because this assault happened in school shouldn't make it any different than if an adult smacked a kid, not his own, on the street.
I think that every time a teacher physically hurts a kid, for no good reason, he should be treated just like any other adult; keeping it in house, thus treating teachers, before the law, as a specially protected class, just doesn't do it for me.
We disagree, which is unusual, but I don't think that rises to the level of a major issue. I mean, we don't have to sing Kumbaya, or anything, do we? 
_________________________
It's never too late to be who you might have been.
George Elliot
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