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#1336844 - 04/06/12 10:45 AM
Re: OBAMACARE UNDER FIRE
[Re: sands]
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VM Smith
Diamond Member
Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 34606
Loc: Reality
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Doug Thompson, publisher of Capitol Hill Blue, says he’s talked to three people present last month when Republican Congressional leaders met with President Bush in the Oval Office to talk about renewing the Patriot Act. That act, passed by legislators who hadn’t read it, in the immediate aftermath of 9-11 (when most people were shell-shocked and lawmakers in particular disinclined to use their brains), has of course been criticized as containing unconstitutional elements. All three GOP politicians quote their president as saying: "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face! It’s just a [foul-mouthed Pres here] piece of paper!"
As you might know, I've become a philosophical anarchist, and people like Shrub, Obomber, FDR and Lincoln are some of the reasons why. Constitutions are fine and dandy, but they ARE just pieces of paper, and governments WILL ignore them.
Note to those who are monitoring this, and all other, communications: I'm a philosophical anarchist. I do not advocate doing anything to the US government. I just see governments for what they are, at last, and I withdraw my consent, which was never asked for or given, anyway. I'll leave it to collapse on its own.
Edited by VM Smith (04/06/12 11:18 AM)
_________________________
It's never too late to be who you might have been.
George Elliot
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#1336906 - 04/06/12 04:42 PM
Re: OBAMACARE UNDER FIRE
[Re: VM Smith]
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MeRightYouWrong
Senior Member
Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1482
Loc: Mountain of Truth
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The only authority any government can ever possess is that which is conceded by the people. A piece of paper doesn't matter at all, as it is not even needed.
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#1336925 - 04/06/12 07:08 PM
Re: OBAMACARE UNDER FIRE
[Re: VM Smith]
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Rich_Tallcot
Senior Member
Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3779
Loc: Union Springs, New York
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The deliberations of the Constitutional Convention of 1787 were held in strict secrecy. Consequently, anxious citizens gathered outside Independence Hall when the proceedings ended in order to learn what had been produced behind closed doors. The answer was provided immediately. A Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, "Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, "A republic, if you can keep it."
This exchange was recorded by Constitution signer James McHenry in a diary entry that was later reproduced in the 1906 American Historical Review. Yet in more recent years, Franklin has occasionally been misquoted as having said, "A democracy, if you can keep it."
This misquote is a serious one, since the difference between a democracy and a republic is not merely a question of semantics but is fundamental. The word "republic" comes from the Latin res publica - which means simply "the public thing(s)," or more simply "the law(s)." "Democracy," on the other hand, is derived from the Greek words demos and kratein, which translates to "the people to rule." Democracy, therefore, has always been synonymous with majority rule.
The Founding Fathers supported the view that (in the words of the Declaration of Independence) "Men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights." They recognized that such rights should not be violated by an unrestrained majority any more than they should be violated by an unrestrained king or monarch. In fact, they recognized that majority rule would quickly degenerate into mobocracy and then into tyranny. They had studied the history of both the Greek democracies and the Roman republic. They had a clear understanding of the relative freedom and stability that had characterized the latter, and of the strife and turmoil - quickly followed by despotism - that had characterized the former. In drafting the Constitution, they created a government of law and not of men, a republic and not a democracy.
Untrammeled by the restraints of feudal tenure which still oppressed all of the working-classes in the old country, the founders of Hartford, Windsor and Wethersfield devised a system of their own and began to make history, in a humble manner it is true, but on a plan which in time attracted the attention of the world. Without a charter to establish their rights to the land upon which they built their homes or a basis for civil authority, they went to the other extreme and placed the foundation of authority in the people and upon that cornerstone adopted a constitution which created a government.
On January 14, 1638-9, the inhabitants and residents of Windsor, Hartford and. Wethersfield assembled in the meeting house in Hartford, the building being located on what is now known as the Public Square and adopted what is known as the Fundamental Orders or "Constitution of 1638-9."
The foundation of authority is laid in the free consent of the people because every man is a free sovereign endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights. My own ancestors were some of the founders of Hartford who were responsible for the FIRST written constitution known to HISTORY that CREATED a government. Joseph Talcott was elected Governor in 1624 and remained in office until 1641.
So I guess, according to Lysander Spooner, I would fall into the second class: 2. Dupes - a large class, no doubt - each of whom, because he is allowed one voice out of millions in deciding what he may do with his own person and his own property, and because he is permitted to have the same voice in robbing, enslaving, and murdering others, that others have in robbing, enslaving, and murdering himself, is stupid enough to imagine that he is a “free man,” a "sovereign"; that this is "a free government”; "a government of equal rights," "the best government on earth, and such like absurdities.
Spooner's rant would appear to be that of a well imbibed man of low self esteem. But, if nothing else, he was prolific and wrote many works. He appears to be a frustrated activist of his time as evidenced in his work the Unconstitutionality of Slavery http://medicolegal.tripod.com/spooneruos.htm#declaration
The constitutions that have been established in the United States, and the discussions had on the formation of them, all attest the importance which our ancestors attached to a separation of the judicial, from the executive and legislative departments of the government And yet the benefits, which they had promised to liberty and justice from this separation, have in slight only, if any degree, been realized. Although the legislation of the country generally has exhibited little less than an entire recklessness both of natural justice and constitutional authority, the records of the judiciary nevertheless furnish hardly an instance where an act of a legislature has, for either of these reasons, been declared void by its co-ordinate judicial department.
Although Wikipedia is only as valid as the sources cited, it does present an overview to his frustrations of the day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysander_Spooner
His frustrations are manifest throughout history coupled with those financially well enough off to influence history itself and the laws of this land. Such is evidenced at every election cycle and by the lobbyists.
And then we have the Dumbing Down of America:
http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/MomsPDFs/DDDoA.sml.pdf
The Dupes are the ones that buy into it as opposed to thinking for themselves.
The human brain should be used for processing, not storage.
-Thomas A. Kelly, Ph.D.
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#1336946 - 04/06/12 09:26 PM
Re: OBAMACARE UNDER FIRE
[Re: Rich_Tallcot]
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VM Smith
Diamond Member
Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 34606
Loc: Reality
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So I guess, according to Lysander Spooner, I would fall into the second class: 2. Dupes - a large class, no doubt - each of whom, because he is allowed one voice out of millions in deciding what he may do with his own person and his own property, and because he is permitted to have the same voice in robbing, enslaving, and murdering others, that others have in robbing, enslaving, and murdering himself, is stupid enough to imagine that he is a “free man,” a "sovereign"; that this is "a free government”; "a government of equal rights," "the best government on earth, and such like absurdities.
Most of us have been dupes, Rich, and you're definitely on the other tail of the curve from "stupid".
We believed what we were taught in school, and, being honest men, we believed that those we elected would act honestly, with the club of the constitution held over their heads, ever ready to keep them honest.
Too many of them laugh at that quaint notion...the club is made of Styrafoam. As longtime UCE president, you've observed government in action, more than most.
Great post, BTW. I've finally moved to Dryden, last Sunday...the 4 of us must have dinner somewhere, soon.
Edited by VM Smith (04/06/12 09:31 PM)
_________________________
It's never too late to be who you might have been.
George Elliot
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#1336961 - 04/06/12 11:05 PM
Re: OBAMACARE UNDER FIRE
[Re: VM Smith]
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Rich_Tallcot
Senior Member
Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3779
Loc: Union Springs, New York
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The problem with the judicial branch is it is up to the executive branch to enforce it.
Things do not always balance. UCE won our lawsuit proving the Turning Stone was illegal because the Governor did not get legislative approval and the compact is null and void as unconstitutional. But it is up to the Governor to enforce it. The feds will not touch it because it is on State land.
FDR wanted to send the navy on a trip around the world and Congress refused the funding. So FDR paid himself to send them halfway.
A dictatorship is the most efficient and economic form of government, but I still prefer what we have and billions of people in other countries agree with me.
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#1337326 - 04/09/12 03:09 PM
Re: OBAMACARE UNDER FIRE
[Re: Chicago Jesus]
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MeRightYouWrong
Senior Member
Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1482
Loc: Mountain of Truth
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Hahaha that's funny. I suppose we're supposed to ask the government to pretty please give us freedoms and liberties like a 12 year old begging his parents to let him spend the night at Joey's?
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