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#1335244 - 03/29/12 08:42 AM

Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: Butt]

Greymane
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6685
Loc: Central PA

Good thing you checked it out. 2% is HORRIBLE!

_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. - Dr. Lawrence J. Peter

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#1335259 - 03/29/12 09:20 AM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: Convince Me 2]
bluezone bluezone Diamond Member Registered: 12/19/04 Posts: 26789 Loc: USA	Originally Posted By: Convince Me 2 Minni, are you kidding me? Rebuild these homes with $30,000? A decent bathroom and kitchen costs that. $2,500 for a basic kitchen $1,500 for a basic bathroom for materials still have $26,000 left for improvements would cost about $150,000 to build a new home from the ground up _________________________ "OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."
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#1335310 - 03/29/12 03:21 PM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: minni]
DeReRustica DeReRustica Member Registered: 03/15/04 Posts: 262 Loc: Boondox, Seneca Co.	Originally Posted By: minni Of course it would depend on the structure itself, and every case would be different. Maybe it wouldn't be to completion but it would sellable. I just think there are opportunities out there that people are not considering. People buy delapidated houses, fix them and sell them all the time. The minor fixing up that you see in this area tends not to make money for the fixer. A problem is that there is a huge oversupply of old houses with old design in the whole region. To make them worth significantly more money, you have to make the bedrooms bigger, have a 2 car garage, and a considerably bigger kitchen. That's expensive. But fixing one house is not enough. All of the houses on the block need similar improvement to attract to new buyers. The one money-making scheme that does work is to be an absentee landlord, renting the place out until it is so dilapidated that it is condemned. Then let the LLC go Chap. 7. I don't like that scheme.
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#1335602 - 03/31/12 09:37 AM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: DeReRustica]
bluezone bluezone Diamond Member Registered: 12/19/04 Posts: 26789 Loc: USA	Originally Posted By: DeReRustica A problem is that there is a huge oversupply of old houses with old design in the whole region. To make them worth significantly more money, you have to make the bedrooms bigger, have a 2 car garage, and a considerably bigger kitchen That's expensive. But fixing one house is not enough. All of the houses on the block need similar improvement to attract to new buyers. are you suggeting that all the older homes be torn down and new larger homes built for around $250,000? where do you see a large pool of buyers for a $250,000 home and the higher taxes to go along with the new home? _________________________ "OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."
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#1335623 - 03/31/12 10:47 AM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: bluezone]
Steve Dallas Steve Dallas Member Registered: 03/19/11 Posts: 42 Loc: Bloom County	You could do complete neighborhood tear-downs and rebuilds quite easily. A $250,000 mortgage at 4% interest with $8,000 a year in insurance and taxes* would cost $ 1,651 a month, which is completely affordable for a household with a $ 67,000 a year income** (not hard with a double income, or even a lower end professional full time augmented by a part-time wage earner.) * after a while, or if after a large number of rebuilds. The average tax levy for a home in Seneca county is in the $3,000 -$ 3,500 a year range, then adjusted for property value. Expense houses get a disproportionately high tax because our median value is so low. But after a substantial number of homes were torn down and rebuilt, the tax rate would decline even as the levy remained constant, resulting in average lower property taxes compared to house value. ** rule of thumb is house is affordable if mortgage + taxes < 30% of gross income. So $1,651*12 mo / 0.3 = $ 66,040 gross income a year. Of course, this also assumes that people are responsible and have no additional debt beyond car loans. _________________________ Ack!!!
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#1335676 - 03/31/12 06:10 PM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: bluezone]
DeReRustica DeReRustica Member Registered: 03/15/04 Posts: 262 Loc: Boondox, Seneca Co.	Originally Posted By: bluezone Originally Posted By: DeReRustica A problem is that there is a huge oversupply of old houses ... are you suggeting that all the older homes be torn down and new larger homes built for around $250,000? where do you see a large pool of buyers for a $250,000 home and the higher taxes to go along with the new home? I don't have a good suggestion for solving this problem that plagues the whole region. However, it is clear that tearing down a dilapidated house to leave a vacant lot is moving in the right direction, where fixing it up extends the cycle of futility. Steve Dallas' math makes it seem as if redoing a whole block could work. Especially if it was on a street in a location that would be desirable, except for the sad houses. That may be the most effective way to get residential development heading back to the core of the (hamlet?) of Seneca Falls.
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#1335751 - 04/01/12 09:51 AM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: DeReRustica]
Frostbyte Frostbyte Member Registered: 12/24/11 Posts: 114 Loc: New York,United States	I think the saddest thing about this whole topic is that nothing is being done at all about even the worst cases, I've seen some of the same houses or remains of a house sit year after year...As someone who has built houses, I can tell you I looked for land that was clean and clear because I didn't want the extra headache of cleaning up an exsisting mess...I think that is where they need to start this clean up and work from there...Making a little difference is better then no difference at all...Ignoring a problem is not the solution to a growing problem...
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#1335790 - 04/01/12 12:59 PM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: Frostbyte]
Hard Corps Hard Corps Member Registered: 04/01/12 Posts: 334 Loc: The Village	I think the real question should be why are these places like this? To me this didn't seem to be the case when the area was thriving with jobs at Goulds, Sylvania, Seneca Army Depot, Seneca Knit, etc. For a time after my brother lost his job at the army depot the peeling paint on his house was the least of his concerns. _________________________ The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun
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#1335793 - 04/01/12 01:15 PM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: Hard Corps]
Frostbyte Frostbyte Member Registered: 12/24/11 Posts: 114 Loc: New York,United States	Peeling paint is the least of the problems....junk in the yard is sightly but still more complicated than an abandoned,falling down, no hope of fixing up property...I agree after Seneca Army Depot closed it was a huge hit to the area but that was so long ago, by now they should have come up with a plan for the worst of these places....yet they still stand...some what
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#1335794 - 04/01/12 01:43 PM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: Frostbyte]
Dr. Sarcassm Esq Dr. Sarcassm Esq Member Registered: 03/03/12 Posts: 431 Loc: Seneca Falls	condemn the house at taxpayer expense relocate the people through Social Services at taxpayer expense give the people Subsidized HUD housing at taxpayer expense give the people food stamps at taxpayer expense give the people unemployement benefits at taxpayer expense have them take the house down at taxpayer expense we must become more sympathic towards this type of lifestyle we should have more benefit dinners and raffles for them. _________________________ Setting the hook so often, so easy & so deep, LOL
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#1335815 - 04/01/12 03:27 PM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: Steve Dallas]
bluezone bluezone Diamond Member Registered: 12/19/04 Posts: 26789 Loc: USA	Originally Posted By: Steve Dallas You could do complete neighborhood tear-downs and rebuilds quite easily. are you saying the local government should do this? A $250,000 mortgage at 4% interest with $8,000 a year in insurance and taxes* would cost $ 1,651 a month, which is completely affordable for a household with a $ 67,000 a year income** (not hard with a double income, or even a lower end professional full time augmented by a part-time wage earner.) insurance would be over $1,000 taxes for a $150,000 home are around $7,000 median income in this is area is around $44,000 shown by citydata _________________________ "OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."
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#1335857 - 04/01/12 08:55 PM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: bluezone]
Convince Me 2 Convince Me 2 Junior Member Registered: 06/30/09 Posts: 16 Loc: NY	Unfortnuately, as time goes on, the number of deteriorating homes will increase. Homes grow old and renovations are necessary. It appears that people do not want or cannot improve their homes. The oldest homes are closest to the heart of each town where most activity occurs. Seneca Falls Historical Society will not allow these property owners to make affordable updates and consequently, these are some of the oldest homes in the area. Also, these homes are on major roads and represent our town. New home development happens on the outskirts of towns. Something needs to be done and soon before our entire town looks like a slum. Aren't there grants for homeowners to make repairs?
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#1336154 - 04/03/12 12:02 PM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: bluezone]
DeReRustica DeReRustica Member Registered: 03/15/04 Posts: 262 Loc: Boondox, Seneca Co.	Originally Posted By: bluezone Originally Posted By: Steve Dallas ... which is completely affordable for a household with a $ 67,000 a year income** (not hard with a double income, or even a lower end professional full time augmented by a part-time wage earner.) ... median income in this is area is around $44,000 The same census source shows over 4,000 households in Seneca County (of 13,000) with an income over $67,000. So there is a potential market. The buyers of new construction in the heart of Seneca Falls would not be the current residents of the renovated blocks. The target buyers are now buying older houses in the Courtney, KenMor or Cayuga St/Gravel Rd. areas for instance. The idea of upgrading (and reducing) the housing stock in the heart of the community isn't completely crazy and deserves some serious evaluation.
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#1336158 - 04/03/12 12:08 PM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: DeReRustica]
MeRightYouWrong MeRightYouWrong Senior Member Registered: 06/29/11 Posts: 1482 Loc: Mountain of Truth	As the economy worsens and it becomes more difficult for people to pay their bills, buy gas, and buy food, there may be more houses that get run down over time because people will lack the funds for upkeep. America is headed toward third-world country status. Trillions spent to bail out banks and to perpetuate the war machine while our infrastructure crumbles, Americans lose their jobs, and homelessness increases. We can expect more run-down homes all across America. Soon we'll all look like Detroit.
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#1336177 - 04/03/12 01:55 PM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: MeRightYouWrong]
Ghosts Ghosts Senior Member Registered: 06/02/00 Posts: 2902 Loc: Seneca Falls	Another problem is that when a home is improved, the taxes go up. A disincentive to make even the most minor (house paint) improvement especially in this economic climate. _________________________ I'M CONFUSED . . .wait, maybe I'm not.
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#1336356 - 04/04/12 08:18 AM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: DeReRustica]
bluezone bluezone Diamond Member Registered: 12/19/04 Posts: 26789 Loc: USA	Originally Posted By: DeReRustica The same census source shows over 4,000 households in Seneca County (of 13,000) with an income over $67,000. So there is a potential market. The buyers of new construction in the heart of Seneca Falls would not be the current residents of the renovated blocks. the 4,000 is for all of seneca county not just this local area how many in this local area make over $67,000 is the question what do you see being the catalyst to getting people to move here and pay $250,000 for a home? are there enough high paying jobs to support them? _________________________ "OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."
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#1336373 - 04/04/12 09:13 AM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: DeReRustica]
Greymane Greymane Senior Member Registered: 11/09/06 Posts: 6685 Loc: Central PA	Originally Posted By: DeReRustica Originally Posted By: bluezone Originally Posted By: Steve Dallas ... which is completely affordable for a household with a $ 67,000 a year income** (not hard with a double income, or even a lower end professional full time augmented by a part-time wage earner.) ... median income in this is area is around $44,000 The same census source shows over 4,000 households in Seneca County (of 13,000) with an income over $67,000. So there is a potential market. The buyers of new construction in the heart of Seneca Falls would not be the current residents of the renovated blocks. The target buyers are now buying older houses in the Courtney, KenMor or Cayuga St/Gravel Rd. areas for instance. The idea of upgrading (and reducing) the housing stock in the heart of the community isn't completely crazy and deserves some serious evaluation. When you have payments on a $40,000 truck, a $6000 ATV and a $15,000 boat, not much left for a new house payment. _________________________ Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. - Dr. Lawrence J. Peter
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#1336389 - 04/04/12 09:44 AM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: DeReRustica]
bluezone bluezone Diamond Member Registered: 12/19/04 Posts: 26789 Loc: USA	Originally Posted By: DeReRustica A problem is that there is a huge oversupply of old houses with old design in the whole region. To make them worth significantly more money, you have to make the bedrooms bigger, have a 2 car garage, and a considerably bigger kitchen . That's expensive. if the wall connecting the kitchen to the adjacent room is removed it gives it a much larger feel costs very little to remove a wall when it is non-load bearing a load bearing wall should only cost about $1,000 more to remove as you will need to install a header _________________________ "OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."
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#1336396 - 04/04/12 10:08 AM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: Convince Me 2]
VM Smith VM Smith Diamond Member Registered: 11/28/05 Posts: 34601 Loc: Reality	Quote: The oldest homes are closest to the heart of each town where most activity occurs. Seneca Falls Historical Society will not allow these property owners to make affordable updates and consequently, these are some of the oldest homes in the area. What activity? If you mean economic, or business, activity, the Former Village isn't there; SF has been a bedroom community for years. It's been a collection of houses. Simply because the FV has been crowded and expensive, most new residences have been built in the outer town, or adjacent towns. Now that the high village expenses have been exported to the whole of the town, then why would anyone want to build there, when they could live under lower taxes in another area town, and another school district? In a related development, I see that the Moravia school budget will be raised 1%, which translates to $13 on a $100,000 property. If one just wants to live in CNY, one could live there, or in Tompkins, say, where the unemployment rate is the lowest in NYS, at 6.5%, and where the Ithaca school district tax last year was $16/thou, compared to $27/thou in SF. So, why would anyone want to live in SF? You might reply that the schools are good. Merely for the sake of argument, I'll accept that, but still, why not live in a surrounding town, such as Tyre or Fayette, but still in the district, but with lower town taxes, and presumably cheaper land, due to lower pop. density? What's in SF? Great shopping? A short trip to work at Sylvania, Seneca Machine, a downsized Goulds, with one foot out the door, or Guaranteed Parts? Rehab it for what, and at what expense? Spend more money, so they can drive more people out? Have they learned nothing? SF has been limping along in fairly good fashion, for years, as a nice little collection of houses, but if the proposed town hall, or many more things like it, are built, it'll be a mini-Detroit, which is sad. _________________________ It's never too late to be who you might have been. George Elliot
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#1336787 - 04/05/12 09:17 PM Re: Abandoned, Forclosed, Dilapitated Houses [Re: minni]
Pusher Pusher Junior Member Registered: 01/04/12 Posts: 18 Loc: Seneca County	Yes but at another meeting the board decided not to spend tax payers money to remove these homes since the return would be negative. I agree there are many buildings that need to be addressed but I can not see anything happening until the public starts screaming about the problem. Not to your zoning or code office but the Town and County Boards!
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