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#1341100 - 04/26/12 02:41 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Jseemore
Member


Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 252
Loc: New York
So, rj1 what is your compensation package to tout the riches from fracking without revealing the disasters, contamination and lamely debate on their behalf? You cant be doing this for nothing.
_________________________
If you say "gullible" slowly it sounds like "oranges".

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#1341157 - 04/26/12 06:34 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Jseemore]
rj1
Member


Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Jseemore
So, rj1 what is your compensation package to tout the riches from fracking without revealing the disasters, contamination and lamely debate on their behalf? You cant be doing this for nothing.


I think the lamely debate is on your side. You people like to take isolated incidents and make it sound like its normal everyday activity. Have there been accidents? There sure have but with any industrial operation there will be accidents. Farmers have accidents with waterways but do we shut down all farming? I receive no compensation I just believe in this cause because I want NY to prosper again with jobs and economic activity. I'm just sick of groups trying to stop everything with lame excuses and theories. You can't even build a Wal-Mart store without somebody forming a group and trying to stop it. All this does is delay important projects and add costs for people to do business in NY. Business should file suit against a couple of these groups for their frivolous crap and then maybe they would get the message.

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#1341162 - 04/26/12 06:41 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Genevan
Senior Member


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1641
Loc: Geneva
Originally Posted By: rj1
with any industrial operation there will be accidents.


Not with a moratorium - no industry, no accidents.
Keep melting those diapers.
_________________________
Statements by this member are personal opinion and are not to be construed as intentional slander.

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#1341165 - 04/26/12 06:44 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Genevan]
rj1
Member


Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Genevan
Originally Posted By: rj1
with any industrial operation there will be accidents.


Not with a moratorium - no industry, no accidents.
Keep melting those diapers.



Won't hold up in court. In the meantime thousands of jobs and millions of dollars in revenue will be lost because of idiots like you WINDY! LOL! YIKES!


Edited by rj1 (04/26/12 06:45 PM)

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#1341167 - 04/26/12 06:56 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Ayuveda
Senior Member


Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Originally Posted By: rj1
Business should file suit against a couple of these groups for their frivolous crap and then maybe they would get the message.


Defending Mother Earth or trying to protect independent local businesses from Wal-Martization is far from being "frivolous".
_________________________
Sometimes, tear gas can make you see better.
-graffiti in Athens


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#1341176 - 04/26/12 07:24 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Ayuveda]
rj1
Member


Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Originally Posted By: rj1
Business should file suit against a couple of these groups for their frivolous crap and then maybe they would get the message.


Defending Mother Earth or trying to protect independent local businesses from Wal-Martization is far from being "frivolous".



Your probably a regular Wal- Mart shopper aren't you? Not that you would admit it anyway.

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#1341189 - 04/26/12 08:18 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Jseemore
Member


Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 252
Loc: New York
Urge State Legislators to Ban Fracking in New York Take Action Now We need to enlist legislators in the struggle to ban fracking in New York. With Governor Cuomo moving forward to frack New York, the legislature must take a stand to protect our families, communities, and environment from this dangerous method of gas drilling.
_________________________
If you say "gullible" slowly it sounds like "oranges".

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#1341192 - 04/26/12 08:25 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Jseemore]
rj1
Member


Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Jseemore
Urge State Legislators to Ban Fracking in New York Take Action Now We need to enlist legislators in the struggle to ban fracking in New York. With Governor Cuomo moving forward to frack New York, the legislature must take a stand to protect our families, communities, and environment from this dangerous method of gas drilling.



I think you've read to much activist crap and watched to many phony videos. Drill baby drill to bring jobs and the economic benefits to NY.

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#1341203 - 04/26/12 08:44 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Jseemore
Member


Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 252
Loc: New York
Facts no videos...

Using records obtained by the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection (PADEP), the PennEnvironment Research and Policy Center identified a total of 3,355 violations of environmental laws by 64 different Marcellus Shale gas drilling companies between January 1, 2008 and December 31, 2011.

Of these violations, the PennEnvironment Research and Policy Center identified 2,392 violations that likely posed a direct threat to our environment and were not reporting or paperwork violations.

Moreover, the PennEnvironment Research and Policy Center believes these numbers offer a conservative view of environmental violations taking place across the Commonwealth by Marcellus Shale gas drilling companies.

This data only includes violations discovered by PADEP’s enforcement staff. Yet based upon the number of wells drilled and limited PADEP enforcement staff, further violations that have gone undetected are likely.

Our analysis of data collected and reported by PADEP between 2008 and 2011 found the following:

•The greatest numbers of environmental violations were related to improper erosion and sedimentation plans: 625 (26% of all violations likely to impact the environment).

The second greatest number involved faulty pollution prevention techniques: 550 (23% of violations likely to impact the environment).

•The top five operators for total number of violations were, in order, Cabot Oil and Gas Corp. with 412; Chesapeake Appalachia, LLC with 393; Chief Oil and Gas, LLC with 313; Talisman Energy USA, Inc. with 303; and East Resources, Inc. with 170.

•The top five operators for average number of violations per well drilled were, in order, Guardian Exploration, LLC with an average of 11 violations per well drilled; AB Resources PA, LLC with 9; JW Operating Co. with 5.3; Flatirons Development, LLC with 4.67 and Novus Operating, LLC with 4.63.

Between 2008 and 2011, on average, Pennsylvania saw more than two violations per day uncovered by PADEP, roughly 1.5 of which had the greatest potential to impact the environment.
_________________________
If you say "gullible" slowly it sounds like "oranges".

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#1341207 - 04/26/12 08:56 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Jseemore]
rj1
Member


Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Jseemore

Using records obtained by the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection (PADEP), the PennEnvironment Research and Policy Center identified a total of 3,355 violations of environmental laws by 64 different Marcellus Shale gas drilling companies between January 1, 2008 and December 31, 2011.

Of these violations, the PennEnvironment Research and Policy Center identified 2,392 violations that likely posed a direct threat to our environment and were not reporting or paperwork violations.

Moreover, the PennEnvironment Research and Policy Center believes these numbers offer a conservative view of environmental violations taking place across the Commonwealth by Marcellus Shale gas drilling companies.

This data only includes violations discovered by PADEP’s enforcement staff. Yet based upon the number of wells drilled and limited PADEP enforcement staff, further violations that have gone undetected are likely.

Our analysis of data collected and reported by PADEP between 2008 and 2011 found the following:

•The greatest numbers of environmental violations were related to improper erosion and sedimentation plans: 625 (26% of all violations likely to impact the environment).

The second greatest number involved faulty pollution prevention techniques: 550 (23% of violations likely to impact the environment).

•The top five operators for total number of violations were, in order, Cabot Oil and Gas Corp. with 412; Chesapeake Appalachia, LLC with 393; Chief Oil and Gas, LLC with 313; Talisman Energy USA, Inc. with 303; and East Resources, Inc. with 170.

•The top five operators for average number of violations per well drilled were, in order, Guardian Exploration, LLC with an average of 11 violations per well drilled; AB Resources PA, LLC with 9; JW Operating Co. with 5.3; Flatirons Development, LLC with 4.67 and Novus Operating, LLC with 4.63.

Between 2008 and 2011, on average, Pennsylvania saw more than two violations per day uncovered by PADEP, roughly 1.5 of which had the greatest potential to impact the environment.



Three years worth that's nothing compared to the amount of wells being drilled. It's a revenue driven enforcement trap by the state. The more violations the more revenue. Peeing on the ground is a violation. If the majority of the violations were for sediment and erosion control I don't think I'd worry about it to much. Of course people like you will make a big deal out of it. People working in industrial jobs know how easy it is to get a violation of any government regs. People who work at colleges or don't do industrial work have no clue.

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#1341211 - 04/26/12 09:06 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Jseemore
Member


Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 252
Loc: New York
Knew you'd stall on that stat.

That's like saying a little radiation is safe. Or "only 1% of the injection fluid is chemicals" when in fact it only takes 1 part ber billion of benzene to be lethal.
_________________________
If you say "gullible" slowly it sounds like "oranges".

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#1341214 - 04/26/12 09:26 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Jseemore]
rj1
Member


Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Jseemore
Knew you'd stall on that stat.

That's like saying a little radiation is safe. Or "only 1% of the injection fluid is chemicals" when in fact it only takes 1 part ber billion of benzene to be lethal.



Stall on what? You're trying to make something out of nothing. It's sediment and erosion control. Violations of that sort happen everyday in the construction industry. You wouldn't know that because you have no clue what your talking about. Are you another Cornell person who doesn't have a clue what happens in the real world?


Edited by rj1 (04/26/12 09:28 PM)

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#1341222 - 04/26/12 09:41 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Jseemore
Member


Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 252
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: rj1
Originally Posted By: Jseemore
Knew you'd stall on that stat.

That's like saying a little radiation is safe. Or "only 1% of the injection fluid is chemicals" when in fact it only takes 1 part ber billion of benzene to be lethal.



Stall on what? You're trying to make something out of nothing. It's sediment and erosion control. Violations of that sort happen everyday in the construction industry. You wouldn't know that because you have no clue what your talking about. Are you another Cornell person who doesn't have a clue what happens in the real world?


It's true, as another poster pointed out, you only see what you want. You stalled on the erosion....The percentages of violations that are detrimental [read:lethal] environmentally may seem minor to you, however, drinking water in not a luxury, it's a neccessity.
_________________________
If you say "gullible" slowly it sounds like "oranges".

Top
#1341230 - 04/26/12 10:05 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Jseemore]
rj1
Member


Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Jseemore
Originally Posted By: rj1
Originally Posted By: Jseemore
Knew you'd stall on that stat.

That's like saying a little radiation is safe. Or "only 1% of the injection fluid is chemicals" when in fact it only takes 1 part ber billion of benzene to be lethal.



Stall on what? You're trying to make something out of nothing. It's sediment and erosion control. Violations of that sort happen everyday in the construction industry. You wouldn't know that because you have no clue what your talking about. Are you another Cornell person who doesn't have a clue what happens in the real world?


It's true, as another poster pointed out, you only see what you want. You stalled on the erosion....The percentages of violations that are detrimental [read:lethal] environmentally may seem minor to you, however, drinking water in not a luxury, it's a neccessity.



I didn't stall on anything. I don't believe in making a mountain out of a molehill. That's why you activists have a limited audience. People know how you operate from your past. You people make all these claims about widespread contamination but I have yet to see any major water source threatened only minor accidents here and there. After you blow your horn for so long and nothing happens people turn a deaf ear to you.

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#1341237 - 04/26/12 10:13 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Jseemore
Member


Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 252
Loc: New York
Funny, you have labeled me. Since you insist upon not debating the topic intelligently I will ask is this your only method of diverting from facts? I am no activist I can assure you. "Us" people are armed with facts, incidents of serious detrimental consequence, many that you dismiss as minor. rj1, perhaps you are in need of a job? One that will pay big money for a short period of time, that may cost you and the rest of "us" in the long run...
_________________________
If you say "gullible" slowly it sounds like "oranges".

Top
#1341246 - 04/26/12 10:27 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Jseemore]
rj1
Member


Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Jseemore
Funny, you have labeled me. Since you insist upon not debating the topic intelligently I will ask is this your only method of diverting from facts? I am no activist I can assure you. "Us" people are armed with facts, incidents of serious detrimental consequence, many that you dismiss as minor. rj1, perhaps you are in need of a job? One that will pay big money for a short period of time, that may cost you and the rest of "us" in the long run...


I need no job I just want NY to prosper and people like you get in the way. Your so called facts and incidents are usually no way as serious as you portray or outright untrue. The economic benefits will last long after the drilling is done by supplying our nation with a reliable cheap source of energy that is American made not foreign made.

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#1341249 - 04/26/12 10:36 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Jseemore
Member


Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 252
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: rj1

I need no job I just want NY to prosper and people like you get in the way. Your so called facts and incidents are usually no way as serious as you portray or outright untrue. The economic benefits will last long after the drilling is done by supplying our nation with a reliable cheap source of energy that is American made not foreign made.


Minor incidents?:

*Durango, Colorado - an emergency room nurse almost died of organ failure after handling the clothes of a
rig worker who had been splashed in a fracking fluid spill. The doctors were unable to learn the chemical
makeup of the fluid because the information is proprietary - companies are not required to disclose the
contents of chemicals used. (ProPublica, 11/13/08, Abrahm Lustgarten)

*New Mexico - toxic fluids seeped into water supplies at over 800 drilling sites in 2008. (Vanity Fair, "A
Colossal Fracking Mess" June 21, 2010).

*Wyoming - benzene, a common chemical used in fracking, was discovered throughout a 28-mile long
aquifer. (ProPublica, 12/31/09)

*Wyoming - Upper Green River Basin reported ozone levels above those of Los Angeles on its worst days.
The Wyoming Department of Environmental Quality urged the elderly and children to avoid strenuous
outdoor activity. (AP news article printed in TC Record Eagle, March 2011)

*Sublette, Wyoming - toxic compounds used in fracking including benzene were found at 1500 times safe
level in 88 drinking water wells, documented by the US Bureau of Land Management in July, 2008.
Researchers returned in September to take more samples. They were unable to open the water wells -
monitors showed they contained so much flammable gas that they were likely to explode. (Pro Publica,
"Buried Secrets: Is Natural Gas Drilling Endangering US Water Supplies?" Abrahm Lustgarten,
Nov 13, 2008).

*Dish, Texas - Mayor Calvin Tillman describes how carcinogenic air pollution from drilling has ruined the
quality of life for residents, who report problems with nausea, headaches, breathing difficulties, chronic eye
and throat irritation and brain disorders. Trees are dying and horses have fallen ill. The town hired an
environmental firm to collect air samples and found high levels of 15 chemicals used in fracking fluid,
including benzene, toluene and xylene. In June, 2010, tests by the Texas Railroad Commission showed
high levels of arsenic, barium, chromium, lead and selenium in residential water wells. (Texas Oil and Gas
Accountability Project).

I have plenty more if your still feeling dismissive.
_________________________
If you say "gullible" slowly it sounds like "oranges".

Top
#1341251 - 04/26/12 10:40 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Jseemore]
rj1
Member


Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Jseemore
Originally Posted By: rj1

I need no job I just want NY to prosper and people like you get in the way. Your so called facts and incidents are usually no way as serious as you portray or outright untrue. The economic benefits will last long after the drilling is done by supplying our nation with a reliable cheap source of energy that is American made not foreign made.


Minor incidents?:

*Durango, Colorado - an emergency room nurse almost died of organ failure after handling the clothes of a
rig worker who had been splashed in a fracking fluid spill. The doctors were unable to learn the chemical
makeup of the fluid because the information is proprietary - companies are not required to disclose the
contents of chemicals used. (ProPublica, 11/13/08, Abrahm Lustgarten)

*New Mexico - toxic fluids seeped into water supplies at over 800 drilling sites in 2008. (Vanity Fair, "A
Colossal Fracking Mess" June 21, 2010).

*Wyoming - benzene, a common chemical used in fracking, was discovered throughout a 28-mile long
aquifer. (ProPublica, 12/31/09)

*Wyoming - Upper Green River Basin reported ozone levels above those of Los Angeles on its worst days.
The Wyoming Department of Environmental Quality urged the elderly and children to avoid strenuous
outdoor activity. (AP news article printed in TC Record Eagle, March 2011)

*Sublette, Wyoming - toxic compounds used in fracking including benzene were found at 1500 times safe
level in 88 drinking water wells, documented by the US Bureau of Land Management in July, 2008.
Researchers returned in September to take more samples. They were unable to open the water wells -
monitors showed they contained so much flammable gas that they were likely to explode. (Pro Publica,
"Buried Secrets: Is Natural Gas Drilling Endangering US Water Supplies?" Abrahm Lustgarten,
Nov 13, 2008).

*Dish, Texas - Mayor Calvin Tillman describes how carcinogenic air pollution from drilling has ruined the
quality of life for residents, who report problems with nausea, headaches, breathing difficulties, chronic eye
and throat irritation and brain disorders. Trees are dying and horses have fallen ill. The town hired an
environmental firm to collect air samples and found high levels of 15 chemicals used in fracking fluid,
including benzene, toluene and xylene. In June, 2010, tests by the Texas Railroad Commission showed
high levels of arsenic, barium, chromium, lead and selenium in residential water wells. (Texas Oil and Gas
Accountability Project).

I have plenty more if your still feeling dismissive.






Look at the sources of your info. Not really unbiased reporting is it?

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#1341257 - 04/26/12 11:22 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Jseemore]
rj1
Member


Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Jseemore
Funny, you have labeled me. Since you insist upon not debating the topic intelligently I will ask is this your only method of diverting from facts? I am no activist I can assure you. "Us" people are armed with facts, incidents of serious detrimental consequence, many that you dismiss as minor. rj1, perhaps you are in need of a job? One that will pay big money for a short period of time, that may cost you and the rest of "us" in the long run...



Are these some of your serious incidents?




Looks like the EPA got a bit over-zellous in their anti-hydraulic-fracturing campaign in the Southwest recently....


http://cnsnews.com/blog/craig-bannister/...cs-crucify-them

Senator James Inhofe (R-Okla.) has launched an investigation into the Obama-EPA's apparent "crucify them" and “incite fear” strategies targeted at American energy producers. This investigation will look into EPA's actions towards domestic energy production specifically in light of the agency's recent efforts relating to hydraulic fracturing.

Inhofe’s first move was to send a letter of inquiry To EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson asking for answers regarding an emergency order issued by EPA Region 6, which it justified by making unfounded claims that “houses could explode.”

After the region’s EPA administrator incited public fear in interviews by repeatedly warning of the “danger of fires and explosions,” the emergency order was quietly rescinded – but, the damage to public perception had already been done, Inhofe says.

“Parker, County Texas could be the most outrageous of the three cases and it took place in Region 6 where my home state of Oklahoma is located,” Inhofe said today in a Senate speech announcing the investigation.

Inhofe described how EPA Region 6 issued an Emergency Administrative Order overriding Texas state regulators actively investigating the claim hydraulic fracturing was contaminating well water.

“Along with this order, EPA went on a publicity barrage in an attempt to publicize its premature and unjustified conclusions,” Inhofe said.

In interviews, Regional Administrator Al Armendariz “made comments specifically intended to incite fear and sway public option against hydraulic fracturing” in which he cited multiple times a “danger of fire or explosion,” Inhofe said.

“When state regulators were made aware of EPA’s actions, they made it clear they felt the agency was proceeding prematurely to which Armendariz forwarded their reply to headquarters with a single-word message, ‘Stunning.’”

The EPA then “not only stepped backed their assertions but did so with a stunning lack of transparency strategically attempting to make these announcements as quietly as possible and at times they knew Congress wouldn’t be looking,” Inhofe says.

Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK) will also investigate any connection of these tactics to a video of a top EPA official saying the EPA’s “philosophy” is to “crucify” and “make examples” of oil and gas companies - just as the Romans crucified random citizens in areas they conquered to ensure obedience.

The EPA’s agenda, Inhofe said, is to “incite fear” in the public with unsubstantiated claims and “intimidate” oil and gas companies with threats of unjustified fines and penalties – then, quietly backtrack once the public’s perception has been jaded against oil and natural gas.

In his letter to Lisa Jackson, Sen. Inhofe asks the EPA chief:

“Do you believe it is appropriate for the Regional Administrator to make statements in which the Agency has ‘determined’ that due to a company’s actions, “houses could explode’ despite evidence known to Agency staff which would reasonably preclude such an outcome?”

Inhofe also questions Jackson to determine if these types of actions such are evidence of “the Agency’s preconceived conclusions and increasingly apparent political activism in an ever-intensifying pursuit to link hydraulic fracturing to groundwater contamination.”

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#1341272 - 04/27/12 06:09 AM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Genevan
Senior Member


Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1641
Loc: Geneva
News from a website with the tagline "the right news right now."

To quote the diaper melter

Look at the sources of your info. Not really unbiased reporting is it?
_________________________
Statements by this member are personal opinion and are not to be construed as intentional slander.

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