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#1300020 - 09/26/11 07:56 PM DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27
Gluskap Offline
Member

Registered: 09/03/11
Posts: 160
Loc: Finger Lakes
http://fingerlakescleanwaters.org/?p=362

"This is NOT just a Town of Reading or Schuyler County issue! The proposed Inergy project foreshadows the potential industrialization of the Finger Lakes Region. "
DEC Public Hearing Set for 9/27/2011 See Events Page

DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27
Posted on September 18, 2011 by sameshore
Inergy, LP (Kansas City, MO) has imminent plans to develop a massive LP gas storage and distribution hub servicing the North East U.S. in the Finger Lakes, on – and under, in salt caverns – Seneca Lake near Watkins Glen.

Gas Free Seneca invites everyone to join them at the DEC public hearing September 27th at Watkins Glen High School (301 12th Street, Watkins Glen, NY – map) – to voice their concerns about the impact of this development on our area.

The hearing starts at 7:00 pm, and people will be gathering starting at 4:00 pm at the corner of 12th and Decatur streets.

Learn more about Inergy’s plans here.

WHY CITIZENS AND LOCAL BUSINESSES ARE OPPOSING THIS FACILITY 1. IT’S BAD FOR OUR ECONOMY
Further industrialization of this region will irreparably damage the growing wine and tourism industries that many local families have worked for several generations to develop. Inergy has been acquiring LP and natural gas storage in this region since 2005 and as stated above, they hope to make the Finger Lakes Region, “a gas storage and transportation hub” for the northeastern states.
The company has documented plans to increase their salt cavern storage capacity to 5 million barrels (210 million gallons) of LPG and has recently acquired NYSEG’s 2 billion cubic feet of underground natural gas storage with plans to expand to 5-10 billion cubic feet. The volume of gas to be stored in this area is unprecedented. This proposed LPG storage facility alone will be the largest in the Northeast and one of the largest in the U.S.
Tourism Data (Not including wineries and vineyards)
Source: Andrew Rumbach (Doctoral Candidate Cornell University Dept. of City and Regional Planning)
In 2008, Schuyler, Seneca, Ontario, and Yates county visitors spent more than $307 million. The tourism sector employed 6,335 people and generated $146 million in labor income. Visitor spending contributed $20 million in local taxes, and $19 million in state taxes.
Vineyards & Wineries around Seneca Lake
Source: NYS Dept. of Labor, Andrew Rumbach
In 2010, there were 21 firms classified as grape vineyards, employing a total of 161 people and paying wages of approximately $2.7 million and 45 firms classified as wineries, employing 1,017 people and paying wages of approximately $24.5 million. The constant truck traffic running up and down Rt. 14, as well as the noise and visible industrial zone will hinder tourism to this region, and massive industrialization of this scale has been known to negatively affect property values.
Why would we risk all these jobs and livelihoods in wine production and tourism for an industrial landscape?
Relationship to Marcellus Shale Drilling
Although this is not a fracking issue, the relationship to it (via natural gas storage) is what
multiplies the level of industrialization. John Sherman, Inergy’s CEO, talks about the transportation and storage hub and its relationship to the Marcellus Shale in a video titled “Inergy: Making Marcellus Happen.” In it, he states:
“Inergy’s opportunities in the Northeast continue to be enhanced by the Marcellus Shale. The aggressive pace of exploration and development of the Marcellus will play an
important role in Inergy’s midstream growth.”
2. IT CREATES MASSIVE SAFETY HAZARDS
Unfortunately, this industry is not without accidents. Most alarming are the risks of catastrophic fires and explosions of millions of cubic feet of volatile liquid gas that can affect more than a 3-square-mile radius of the facility, encompassing Watkins Glen and surrounding homes and businesses.
According to a representative of Falcon Gas Storage, in 2002 there were 407 underground gas storage facilities in operation in the US and only 7% of them were salt cavern storage facilities. Since 1972, there have been 11 instances of catastrophic failure of underground gas storage facilities and each one has been a salt cavern facility. Many have included explosions with fire and loss of life, and some have required the evacuation of entire towns. Communities in states like Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Missouri have lived with massive, industrial scale methane and LPG storage facilities as their neighbors and have had to adapt to potential dangers. Local communities have emergency management plans already in place and equipment and personnel to handle a worst case scenario. Our local, mostly volunteer, fire departments and emergency first responders are not equipped to handle disasters of this magnitude.
3. IT PUTS OUR BEAUTIFUL LAKE, THE SURROUNDING REGION, AND OUR HEALTH AT RISK
The proposed LPG facility represents air, water, soil and noise pollution concerns. Risks of gas leaks and compromised brine pits on steep slopes can devastate water and soil quality, as well as wildlife in and around the lake. Seneca Lake is a Class AA drinking water source for 100,000 people, and salt contamination to potable water supplies is nearly impossible to remediate. This facility and the upsurge in truck traffic will dramatically increase the release of volatile organic compounds (VOCs), which are known to be particularly harmful to grapevines. Massive industrial lights, noise and emissions from the compressors, trains and trucks at the center of a tourist region are cause for serious ongoing concern.
MISCONCEPTIONS AND REASONS WHY PEOPLE HAVE HESITATED TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST THIS PROJECT
“It’s nothing new.”
Because of the sheer size of the proposed project, and Inergy’s stated aim to become “the storage and transportation hub for the entire Northeast,” this is new. This project will create a level of industrialization that this region has not seen. “The salt caverns are so deep, they won’t affect us.” Even if no catastrophic event happens underground, what happens above ground is certainly going toaffect us in innumerable ways as outlined above.
“This is too political to get involved.”
This is not a political issue. This is largely an economic issue, as well as an issue of risk assessment. The citizens and businesses that make up the Gas Free Seneca coalition represent all major political party affiliations. We see this proposed project as a bad business deal that creates unnecessary health, safetyand environmental risks.
“This project will create jobs, and there is money to be made.”
Eight to ten jobs is miniscule compared to the jobs that would be lost in the wine and tourism industries if this deal goes through. The real money to be made from this project is Inergy’s, and this company isn’t even based in the Finger Lakes.
“People are scared to stand up by themselves.”
No one is alone in this fight. That is exactly why Gas Free Seneca was created – to create one unified coalition.
Thank you for taking the time to read more about this issue. We hope you will join us in our efforts to KEEP SENECA BEAUTIFUL!
_________________________
"...only the unscrupulous or shortsighted can defend pollution and degradation of the countryside."

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#1300959 - 10/01/11 06:47 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Gluskap]
Genevan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1899
Loc: Geneva
Who would want to drink wine from this area if the grapes were grown above propane?
_________________________
Statements by this member are personal opinion and are not to be construed as intentional slander.

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#1301343 - 10/04/11 05:34 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Genevan]
Gluskap Offline
Member

Registered: 09/03/11
Posts: 160
Loc: Finger Lakes
I am most concerned with being able to drink my water, among other things.
_________________________
"...only the unscrupulous or shortsighted can defend pollution and degradation of the countryside."

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#1325870 - 02/17/12 01:50 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Gluskap]
newsman38 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 4219
Loc: Fourth Estate
Inergy agrees to study on proposed Schuyler County gas-storage facility

Inergy Midstream, the Kansas City-based company that wants to build a propane/butane storage facility in the Town of Reading in Schuyler County, now says it will complete a quantitative risk-assessment study for the $40 million project.

The company has also eliminated the large brine pond from its plans and replaced it with two smaller ponds, a move that will reduce the project's impact on the nearby federally designated wetlands.

The risk-assessment study, something that was strongly urged by those opposed to the storage facility project, would examine the risks associated with that type of operation and outline the processes and procedures in place to mitigate those risks.

Bill Moler, Inergy Midstream's president/COO, said the company has provided state environmental officials with additional geological information on the ability of the salt caverns to hold liquid petroleum gas. He also said Inergy has conducted a second noise study to demonstrate that sound related to the brine pumps will be reduced at the ponds' new locations.

Despite the changes in the proposal, the co-founder of Gas Free Seneca said the group's stance against the plans hasn't changed. The company, he said, doesn't do anything unless it's forced, and the pressure applied by various government agencies and by individuals was behind Inergy's revisions to its plans.

DEC: Move was 'in everyone's interest'
6:46 PM, Feb. 15, 2012

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#1326028 - 02/18/12 10:06 AM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: newsman38]
Genevan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1899
Loc: Geneva
Quantitative???
How can they run numbers when nothings been filled with propane?
_________________________
Statements by this member are personal opinion and are not to be construed as intentional slander.

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#1326148 - 02/18/12 10:02 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Genevan]
rj1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
They already have some areas filled with propane.

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#1326185 - 02/19/12 08:58 AM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Genevan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1899
Loc: Geneva
Where?
_________________________
Statements by this member are personal opinion and are not to be construed as intentional slander.

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#1326296 - 02/20/12 12:29 AM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Genevan]
rj1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Genevan
Where?
In Watkins Glen they've been doing it for years. This is just a expansion. Never had a accident either but now everybody wants to make a big deal out of nothing.

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#1326369 - 02/20/12 12:55 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Forest Girl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 795
Loc: The Heights
This is not just an expansion, and we're not making a big deal out of nothing.
_________________________
I'm reminded way too often these days about how short life truly is.

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#1326458 - 02/21/12 12:36 AM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Forest Girl]
rj1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Forest Girl
This is not just an expansion, and we're not making a big deal out of nothing.
It is just a expansion and people like you do blow everything out of proportion. You people make it sound like if this project proceeds the end of the world is near. You people need to get a life and find something else to do. You make it sound like every project that ever comes up if it proceeds it will be a major catastrophe. The funny thing is when the project does proceed nothing ever happens. Its all about a power grab and trying to make yourself feel important.

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#1326501 - 02/21/12 10:38 AM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Forest Girl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 795
Loc: The Heights
Originally Posted By: rj1
Originally Posted By: Forest Girl
This is not just an expansion, and we're not making a big deal out of nothing.
It is just a expansion and people like you do blow everything out of proportion. You people make it sound like if this project proceeds the end of the world is near. You people need to get a life and find something else to do. You make it sound like every project that ever comes up if it proceeds it will be a major catastrophe. The funny thing is when the project does proceed nothing ever happens. Its all about a power grab and trying to make yourself feel important.


Wow, you seem to have a lot of pent up hostility! While I am a member of the opposition to this proposed facility, I can only speak for myself when I say that I'm not only concerned about the potential environmental impacts and the potential risks involved, I'm also concerned about the economic impacts of turning what has become one of the top tourism areas in the country into the gas transportation and storage hub of the northeast. I'm concerned that the 8 to 10 full time, permanent jobs that this facility will create for local people will in turn cause the loss of many more tourism related jobs that already exist. I'm concerned about the impact on our local roads with the increased traffic, and who will bear the cost of the increased necessary maintenance on those roads. I'm concerned about tractor trailers competing with tourist traffic on those same roads, and if you've traveled Route 414 between Ovid and Watkins Glen on any weekend in the past few years you have to understand what I mean. For me, it has nothing to do with grabbing power or feeling important. It's about protecting the beauty and the future of Seneca Lake and the surrounding area for future generations.
_________________________
I'm reminded way too often these days about how short life truly is.

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#1326506 - 02/21/12 10:48 AM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 29512
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: rj1
Never had a accident either


and if the tanks did blow up about how much area would it take out?

5 mile radius?
or more?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1326765 - 02/22/12 01:58 AM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Forest Girl]
rj1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Forest Girl
Originally Posted By: rj1
Originally Posted By: Forest Girl
This is not just an expansion, and we're not making a big deal out of nothing.
It is just a expansion and people like you do blow everything out of proportion. You people make it sound like if this project proceeds the end of the world is near. You people need to get a life and find something else to do. You make it sound like every project that ever comes up if it proceeds it will be a major catastrophe. The funny thing is when the project does proceed nothing ever happens. Its all about a power grab and trying to make yourself feel important.


Wow, you seem to have a lot of pent up hostility! While I am a member of the opposition to this proposed facility, I can only speak for myself when I say that I'm not only concerned about the potential environmental impacts and the potential risks involved, I'm also concerned about the economic impacts of turning what has become one of the top tourism areas in the country into the gas transportation and storage hub of the northeast. I'm concerned that the 8 to 10 full time, permanent jobs that this facility will create for local people will in turn cause the loss of many more tourism related jobs that already exist. I'm concerned about the impact on our local roads with the increased traffic, and who will bear the cost of the increased necessary maintenance on those roads. I'm concerned about tractor trailers competing with tourist traffic on those same roads, and if you've traveled Route 414 between Ovid and Watkins Glen on any weekend in the past few years you have to understand what I mean. For me, it has nothing to do with grabbing power or feeling important. It's about protecting the beauty and the future of Seneca Lake and the surrounding area for future generations.

I'm concerned about jobs to. Not low paying tourism jobs but good paying middle income jobs. If you think this area can survive on seasonal tourism jobs you're only fooling yourself. For this area to prosper you need industrial and manufacturing jobs also. They can co-exist. To base your arguments on what ifs and non factual theories is foolish at best.

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#1326766 - 02/22/12 01:58 AM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: bluezone]
rj1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
tanks ????? If the army depot had blown up with all the nukes this area would have been wiped out to but guess what it didn't happen did it. If this country based all its arguments on what ifs nothing would ever happen would it? Look at all the jobs and prosperity the army depot brought to this area. Do you think a army depot with nukes could be established today in this area? No way because people like you would say what if this or that happened. Risk is a way of life. If theres no risk nothing will ever get done.


Edited by rj1 (02/22/12 02:11 AM)

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#1326869 - 02/22/12 11:55 AM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Forest Girl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 795
Loc: The Heights
Quote:
I'm concerned about jobs to. Not low paying tourism jobs but good paying middle income jobs. If you think this area can survive on seasonal tourism jobs you're only fooling yourself. For this area to prosper you need industrial and manufacturing jobs also. They can co-exist. To base your arguments on what ifs and non factual theories is foolish at best.


I can assure you that there are many many people in the area who do very well in tourism-related jobs. They are neither low paying nor seasonal. Sure there are the summer jobs too, but it takes a whole lot of people working year round to keep these businesses thriving. As I mentioned in my previous post, all you have to do is take a weekend drive down Route 414 towards Watkins Glen to see what I mean. There is not a single weekend, even in the dead of winter when the wineries aren't busy. Those tourists all need places to stay and places to eat. They shop for more than just wine while they're here too.

It would be foolish to proceed with a storage facility of the proposed magnitude without studying all of the "what ifs" and that is what Inergy has now been forced to do.
_________________________
I'm reminded way too often these days about how short life truly is.

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#1327040 - 02/22/12 11:26 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Forest Girl]
rj1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Forest Girl
Quote:
I'm concerned about jobs to. Not low paying tourism jobs but good paying middle income jobs. If you think this area can survive on seasonal tourism jobs you're only fooling yourself. For this area to prosper you need industrial and manufacturing jobs also. They can co-exist. To base your arguments on what ifs and non factual theories is foolish at best.


I can assure you that there are many many people in the area who do very well in tourism-related jobs. They are neither low paying nor seasonal. Sure there are the summer jobs too, but it takes a whole lot of people working year round to keep these businesses thriving. As I mentioned in my previous post, all you have to do is take a weekend drive down Route 414 towards Watkins Glen to see what I mean. There is not a single weekend, even in the dead of winter when the wineries aren't busy. Those tourists all need places to stay and places to eat. They shop for more than just wine while they're here too.

It would be foolish to proceed with a storage facility of the proposed magnitude without studying all of the "what ifs" and that is what Inergy has now been forced to do.
If your theory is true then why is the occupancy rates at hotels in Geneva around 25% in the winter and they resort to renting out rooms to welfare people to try and make ends meet?

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#1327042 - 02/22/12 11:33 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Ayuveda Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Originally Posted By: rj1
Originally Posted By: Forest Girl
Quote:
I'm concerned about jobs to. Not low paying tourism jobs but good paying middle income jobs. If you think this area can survive on seasonal tourism jobs you're only fooling yourself. For this area to prosper you need industrial and manufacturing jobs also. They can co-exist. To base your arguments on what ifs and non factual theories is foolish at best.


I can assure you that there are many many people in the area who do very well in tourism-related jobs. They are neither low paying nor seasonal. Sure there are the summer jobs too, but it takes a whole lot of people working year round to keep these businesses thriving. As I mentioned in my previous post, all you have to do is take a weekend drive down Route 414 towards Watkins Glen to see what I mean. There is not a single weekend, even in the dead of winter when the wineries aren't busy. Those tourists all need places to stay and places to eat. They shop for more than just wine while they're here too.

It would be foolish to proceed with a storage facility of the proposed magnitude without studying all of the "what ifs" and that is what Inergy has now been forced to do.
If your theory is true then why is the occupancy rates at hotels in Geneva around 25% in the winter and they resort to renting out rooms to welfare people to try and make ends meet?



Maybe they could be rented out to a prostitution ring servicing the hydrofracking boys. Right my porty pal?
_________________________
Sometimes, tear gas can make you see better.
-graffiti in Athens


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#1327045 - 02/22/12 11:37 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Ayuveda]
rj1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Originally Posted By: rj1
Originally Posted By: Forest Girl
Quote:
I'm concerned about jobs to. Not low paying tourism jobs but good paying middle income jobs. If you think this area can survive on seasonal tourism jobs you're only fooling yourself. For this area to prosper you need industrial and manufacturing jobs also. They can co-exist. To base your arguments on what ifs and non factual theories is foolish at best.


I can assure you that there are many many people in the area who do very well in tourism-related jobs. They are neither low paying nor seasonal. Sure there are the summer jobs too, but it takes a whole lot of people working year round to keep these businesses thriving. As I mentioned in my previous post, all you have to do is take a weekend drive down Route 414 towards Watkins Glen to see what I mean. There is not a single weekend, even in the dead of winter when the wineries aren't busy. Those tourists all need places to stay and places to eat. They shop for more than just wine while they're here too.

It would be foolish to proceed with a storage facility of the proposed magnitude without studying all of the "what ifs" and that is what Inergy has now been forced to do.
If your theory is true then why is the occupancy rates at hotels in Geneva around 25% in the winter and they resort to renting out rooms to welfare people to try and make ends meet?



Maybe they could be rented out to a prostitution ring servicing the hydrofracking boys. Right my porty pal?
Definitely more profitable than tourism in the winter.

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#1327049 - 02/22/12 11:42 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: rj1]
Ayuveda Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
I'm sure it would be...along with an accompaniment of sorrid crimes and whatnot.

Go frack in hell.
_________________________
Sometimes, tear gas can make you see better.
-graffiti in Athens


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#1327053 - 02/22/12 11:51 PM Re: DEC public hearing on LPG storage Sept 27 [Re: Ayuveda]
rj1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 429
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
I'm sure it would be...along with an accompaniment of sorrid crimes and whatnot.

Go frack in hell.
The what not would be decent paying jobs bringing in much needed tax revenue and giving local business a shot in the arm.

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