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#1294687 --- 08/26/11 01:10 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: brainman]
pixie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 1912
Loc: Romulus
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
If that installation makes sense, why do the rulers have to force people to subsidize it at over 3 times the market price per kw? That implies that to make it pay its own way, they'd have to charge 4 times the market price. If they did that, it wouldn't be built, because no one (except someone spending someone else's money) would be crazy enough to pay that much for power. Why not just use a cheaper source of power, so they don't have to seize the difference from citizens?

Quote:
It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.


I just don't get this enviro-socialism, unless the goal is to redistribute people's money to a powerful, well connected group of investors running an enviro-hustle, while at the same time making those actually being fleeced feel greenly virtuous, and that they are "making a difference". Nah...couldn't be...people aren't that greedy, or that stupid...


I found the going rate for electricty in that area in 2009 is 37.24 usa cents per kw so its not over priced maybe under priced. sorry could not find a 2011 price , 2009 was the best I could do .


Etrion is an independent power producer. They sell to utilities. The .08 Euro/kwh is the wholesale price they receive from a utility.

Without the handout, amounting to 3 times the amount the electricity could be sold for, the market price would not be sufficient to justify that method of generation. IOW, nobody would be dumb enough to use that method unless they can force other people to help pay the exhorbitant cost.


True but at what point do you just continue to burn oil or coal, without renewable energy our way of life is limited. we do not have a endless supply of oil and our world can not take continued burning due to carbon. It takes a long time to replace all our existing power plants oil. gas , and coal burning as well as nuke. almost all types of large plants such as ethanol in the usa receive huge grants so why not solar . at least with solar once they are set up other then minimal maintenance they produce very low cost electrical almost pollution free. The only pollution is in the manufacture which is not that big. one positive they are almost 100 percent recyclable .



Thats why you drill for gas. There's a very large supply. It will also put Americans back to work plus bring in much needed revenue for the states. Its funny how you talk out of both sides of your mouth.


yep keep burning fossil fuels has the last 10 years not been hot enough. Research is now showing drilling for and using natural gas is a worse a greenhouse gas producer then coal .
_________________________
chemical / electrical engineer .

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#1294690 --- 08/26/11 01:19 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: pixie]
Harleybob5 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 726
Loc: Wallonia Freedom Fighter
Originally Posted By: pixie


yep keep burning fossil fuels has the last 10 years not been hot enough. Research is now showing drilling for and using natural gas is a worse a greenhouse gas producer then coal .
Okay, I'll burn garbage a little wood with chopped up old tires.
_________________________
Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark


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#1294705 --- 08/26/11 01:55 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: pixie]
brainman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 715
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: brainman
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Originally Posted By: pixie
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
If that installation makes sense, why do the rulers have to force people to subsidize it at over 3 times the market price per kw? That implies that to make it pay its own way, they'd have to charge 4 times the market price. If they did that, it wouldn't be built, because no one (except someone spending someone else's money) would be crazy enough to pay that much for power. Why not just use a cheaper source of power, so they don't have to seize the difference from citizens?

Quote:
It will receive a feed-in tariff of 0.25 euros/kWh, plus a market price of approximately 0.08 euros/kWh.


I just don't get this enviro-socialism, unless the goal is to redistribute people's money to a powerful, well connected group of investors running an enviro-hustle, while at the same time making those actually being fleeced feel greenly virtuous, and that they are "making a difference". Nah...couldn't be...people aren't that greedy, or that stupid...


I found the going rate for electricty in that area in 2009 is 37.24 usa cents per kw so its not over priced maybe under priced. sorry could not find a 2011 price , 2009 was the best I could do .


Etrion is an independent power producer. They sell to utilities. The .08 Euro/kwh is the wholesale price they receive from a utility.

Without the handout, amounting to 3 times the amount the electricity could be sold for, the market price would not be sufficient to justify that method of generation. IOW, nobody would be dumb enough to use that method unless they can force other people to help pay the exhorbitant cost.


True but at what point do you just continue to burn oil or coal, without renewable energy our way of life is limited. we do not have a endless supply of oil and our world can not take continued burning due to carbon. It takes a long time to replace all our existing power plants oil. gas , and coal burning as well as nuke. almost all types of large plants such as ethanol in the usa receive huge grants so why not solar . at least with solar once they are set up other then minimal maintenance they produce very low cost electrical almost pollution free. The only pollution is in the manufacture which is not that big. one positive they are almost 100 percent recyclable .



Thats why you drill for gas. There's a very large supply. It will also put Americans back to work plus bring in much needed revenue for the states. Its funny how you talk out of both sides of your mouth.


yep keep burning fossil fuels has the last 10 years not been hot enough. Research is now showing drilling for and using natural gas is a worse a greenhouse gas producer then coal .




I like it hot. No snow for me.
_________________________
your past will follow you forever

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#1294709 --- 08/26/11 02:08 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: brainman]
Harleybob5 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 726
Loc: Wallonia Freedom Fighter
_________________________
Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark


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#1294896 --- 08/27/11 01:03 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: brainman]
pixie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 1912
Loc: Romulus
[quote=brainman


Hey Harley Bob. I know where you can get some cheap solar panels and a thatch hut? The only problem is they will be floating out in the ocean. [/quote]


oh sorry all is well in the bahamas my hatched hut and solar panels survived only one small papaya tree fell down no damage. to bad Garry aka brainman i know how much hearing some ones ill fate makes you happy.
_________________________
chemical / electrical engineer .

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#1294957 --- 08/27/11 08:29 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: pixie]
brainman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 715
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: pixie
[quote=brainman


Hey Harley Bob. I know where you can get some cheap solar panels and a thatch hut? The only problem is they will be floating out in the ocean.



oh sorry all is well in the bahamas my hatched hut and solar panels survived only one small papaya tree fell down no damage. to bad Garry aka brainman i know how much hearing some ones ill fate makes you happy. [/quote]



Only people like you! Did that hatched hut come from a egg? OMG your such a joke! LMAO!
_________________________
your past will follow you forever

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#1295446 --- 08/29/11 07:50 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: brainman]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/oyster-population-plummets-louisiana/story?id=14404214

By CHRISTINA CARON (@cdcaron)
Aug. 29, 2011

Today, on the sixth anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, Louisiana and Mississippi are battling a sharp decline in the oyster population, which may not recover until 2013 now that a two-year influx of fresh water has killed off millions of the mollusks.

After the BP oil spill in 2010, water was diverted out of the Mississippi River to keep the oil away from coastal wetlands. In the process, freshwater flooded into oyster hatcheries, disrupting the delicate saline balance required for oysters to survive. When saline levels get too low, algae die, eliminating the oyster's food supply.

And if it weren't already enough that the Gulf Coast had been hammered by the largest oil spill in U.S. history as well as record drought, oyster farmers got hit again in May after rain and snowmelt had caused the Mississippi River to rise higher than it had in 70 years.

The Army Corps of Engineers opened the Bonnet Carre Spillway, located west of New Orleans, to divert rising Mississippi River floodwaters from the city. Soon after, they also opened the Morganza spillway, diverting water away from both Baton Rouge and New Orleans, and adding even more fresh water to oyster grounds.

"This year we'll produce about 50 percent of our traditional in-shell oysters," said Mike Voisin, CEO of Motivatit Seafoods, which typically produces about 20 million pounds of in-shell oysters.

During a typical oyster season, which starts in September in Louisiana, Voisin said the state produces a third of the nation's oysters. But this year, he estimates the number will decline from an average of 250 million pounds to about 125 million pounds.
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1295464 --- 08/29/11 08:27 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: kyle585]
Harleybob5 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 726
Loc: Wallonia Freedom Fighter
Originally Posted By: kyle585
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/oyster-population-plummets-louisiana/story?id=14404214

By CHRISTINA CARON (@cdcaron)
Aug. 29, 2011

Today, on the sixth anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, Louisiana and Mississippi are battling a sharp decline in the oyster population, which may not recover until 2013 now that a two-year influx of fresh water has killed off millions of the mollusks.

After the BP oil spill in 2010, water was diverted out of the Mississippi River to keep the oil away from coastal wetlands. In the process, freshwater flooded into oyster hatcheries, disrupting the delicate saline balance required for oysters to survive. When saline levels get too low, algae die, eliminating the oyster's food supply.

And if it weren't already enough that the Gulf Coast had been hammered by the largest oil spill in U.S. history as well as record drought, oyster farmers got hit again in May after rain and snowmelt had caused the Mississippi River to rise higher than it had in 70 years.

The Army Corps of Engineers opened the Bonnet Carre Spillway, located west of New Orleans, to divert rising Mississippi River floodwaters from the city. Soon after, they also opened the Morganza spillway, diverting water away from both Baton Rouge and New Orleans, and adding even more fresh water to oyster grounds.

"This year we'll produce about 50 percent of our traditional in-shell oysters," said Mike Voisin, CEO of Motivatit Seafoods, which typically produces about 20 million pounds of in-shell oysters.

During a typical oyster season, which starts in September in Louisiana, Voisin said the state produces a third of the nation's oysters. But this year, he estimates the number will decline from an average of 250 million pounds to about 125 million pounds.
Does your mom feed you oysters filled Hot Pockets?
_________________________
Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark


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#1295471 --- 08/29/11 08:32 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: Harleybob5]
MeRightYouWrong Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1597
Loc: Mountain of Truth
She feeds him oysters because they are an aphrodisiac.

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#1295478 --- 08/29/11 08:38 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: MeRightYouWrong]
Harleybob5 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 726
Loc: Wallonia Freedom Fighter
Originally Posted By: MeRightYouWrong
She feeds him oysters because they are an aphrodisiac.
Ahahahahaha...
_________________________
Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark


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#1295666 --- 08/30/11 06:08 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: Harleybob5]
brainman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 715
Loc: NY
_________________________
your past will follow you forever

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#1295674 --- 08/30/11 06:30 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: brainman]
brainman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 715
Loc: NY
The gas is coming.





Gas storage draft OKd By DAVID L. SHAW dshaw@fltimes.com Finger Lakes Times | 0 comments

READING The state Department of Environmental Conservation has determined that the Draft Supplemental Environ mental Impact Statement submitted for a proposed underground liquified petroleum gas storage facility near Seneca Lake is complete and ready for public review.

The DSEIS was submitted by Finger Lakes LPG Storage LLC of Kansas City, Mo., a subsidiary of Inergy Midstream LLC. A public hearing on the report has been scheduled for 7 p.m. Sept. 27 at the Watkins Glen High School auditorium.


Company officials also have agreed to be available for a public information session from 6 to 7 p.m. prior to the hearing to answer questions from the public.

Written comments on the DSEIS and the project will be accepted until Monday, Oct. 10, and will be given equal weight to oral comments at the hearing.

Written comments should be sent to David L. Bimber, Deputy Regional Permit Administrator, NYSDEC, 6274 East Avon-Lima Road, Avon, 14414-9516. Bimbers telephone number is (585) 226-5401.

The complete DSEIS and the permit application are available for public review at the DEC Region 8 office in Avon by appointment during normal business hours.

The documents also are available during normal business hours at Reading Town Hall, 3914 County Route 28, Watkins Glen, or at the Watkins Glen Public Library, 610 S. Decatur St.

The first DSEIS was submitted March 15 and revised at the DECs request June 9, July 18 and Aug. 1.

DEC is the lead agency for the State Environmental Quality Review Act process and issued a positive declaration of environmental significance Nov. 17, 2010.

The controversial project has drawn considerable opposition.

The company wants to construct and operate a new underground liquified petroleum gas (LPG) storage facility in existing caverns created for salt production. The proposed site consists of 576 acres on Routes 14 and 14A west of the lake and north of Watkins Glen.

The proposal calls for storing a maximum of 2.10 million barrels, or 88.2 million gallons, of LPG in the caverns seasonally, displacing some of the brine currently in the caverns. The LPG would be withdrawn by displacement of propane by brine when demand occurs during the heating season and by displacement of butane by brine during the gasoline-blending season.

During storage, the brine displaced by LPG will be stored and contained in a 14-acre double-lined surface pond with a capacity of 2.19 million barrels, or 91.9 million gallons. The pond would be east of the junction of Routes 14 and 14A.

The storage facility would connect to the existing LPG interstate pipeline and ship LPG by truck and railroad.

The project also involves construction of a new railroad and truck LPG facility, consisting of a six-rail siding capable of allowing the loading and unloading of 24 rail cars within 12 hours and a truck-loading station capable of handling four trucks per hour. That facility could operate 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

Construction also would include LPG storage tanks, offices, distribution facilities and stormwater control structures.

Inergys plan to make Seneca Lake the gas storage and transportation hub of the Northeast just got one step closer to reality, said Joseph Campbell of Gas Free Seneca.

It is more critical now than ever to make our voices heard. If we dont act now, we may lose the place and way of life we love forever, he said.
_________________________
your past will follow you forever

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#1296037 --- 09/01/11 11:17 AM Re: Frack legislation [Re: brainman]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
To the Editor:

I am just curious. Are the people championing hydrofracking the second generation of the people who championed the use of asbestos, lead and DDT? In those days that generation claimed there was no harm in using asbestos in the home, lead in pipes,
paint etc. and in using DDT as an insecticide. Now, many years and illnesses later, they have been proven wrong. What will it take to prove this generation wrong now before the future illnesses and death? There needs to be a lot more investigation before any government agency should okay this procedure to find any kind of fuel.

HEALTH BEFORE WEALTH!!!.

IRENE OREIND
Waterloo

****************************

To the Editor:

While more politicians are being made aware of hydrofracking for gas in New Yorks shale deposits and the probable environmental problems down the road, Rep. Tom Reed, the farmers friend, seems to distance himself from it all. In fact, he says if its
OK with the DEC, its OK with him. Well, Mr. Martens who heads up the state DEC has already stated his plans for allowing drilling without waiting for the comment period to close. Next Gov. Cuomo says hell sign a bill allowing large amounts of water to be drawn out of state lakes and probably rivers as well. You need millions and millions of gallons of water to mix with sand and special chemicals (several toxic) in order to do hydrofracking. You can see where his stand is on the issue; its the bottom line money. Its easier to stop a problem before it happens than it is to clean it up later, if at all possible.

Apparently, hydrofrack now and later get stuck with the cleanup bill that no one can afford. Politicians only care about what makes them look good or what they can get out of it material-wise. Id guess they only pretend to work for us while lining their own pockets and getting re-elected. If you leave it up to one person toaffect the rest of us, like the DEC, you can start putting money down on prepaid future funerals before your health starts to fail and leaves you bankrupt.

Also beware of landfill runoff. Its almost as bad as hydrofracking. This is one guinea pig that wants out of this lab experiment. I will not go quietly to my grave.

STEPHEN FALLON
Stanley

*****************************

To the Editor:

I am so glad that Sen. Schumer (Uncle Chuck) is looking out for us here in the region. I bet there were just thousands of letters, faxes and emails by his constituents anxious tohave millions of New York state taxpayer dollars go to an offshore, multibillion-dollar company (Moser Baer) to create (someday) 59 new jobs at a cost of over $300,000 per job. With these 59 (someday) new jobs, they will fall only 4,941 short of the 5,000 jobs promised nearly seven years and $140 million ago at Infotonics, a registered public charity now with the new improved name of SCT and even further improved with the extension name College of Nanotechnology. Yes, thanks for coming to western New York to promote a project that has been a failure for 10 years!

By the way did any of your constituents ever mention their disapproval of hydrofracking? I know I sent a fax and e-mail and so did my friends, family, co-workers, business associates. And they told their friends, family, co-workers and their business
associates who also sent letters faxes and e-mails, and then those friends, family, co-workers and their business
associates told their friends, family, coworkers and business associates to write letters, send faxes and e-mails. This over the course of a few years now. Did you get any? Wed love to hear back from you as I know you have only our best interest at heart. Love and kisses to you, Uncle Chuck. (PS: How much is the tuition at the College of Nanotechnology? George Orwells spirit would like to know.)

JIM BOBRESKI
Penn Yan


Edited by kyle585 (09/01/11 11:40 AM)
_________________________
**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1296038 --- 09/01/11 11:21 AM Re: Frack legislation [Re: kyle585]
Harleybob5 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 726
Loc: Wallonia Freedom Fighter
Originally Posted By: kyle585
To the Editor:

I am just curious. Are the people championing hydrofracking the second generation of the people who championed the use of asbestos, lead and DDT? In those days that generation claimed there was no harm in using asbestos in the home, lead in pipes,
paint etc. and in using DDT as an insecticide. Now, many years and illnesses later, they have been proven wrong.
What will it take to prove this generation wrong now before the future illnesses and death? There needs to be a lot more investigation before any government agency should okay this procedure to find any kind of fuel.

HEALTH BEFORE WEALTH!!!.
IRENE OREIND
Waterloo

****************************

To the Editor:

While more politicians are being made aware of hydrofracking for gas in New Yorks shale deposits and the probable environmental problems down the road, Rep. Tom Reed, the farmers friend, seems to distance himself from it all. In fact, he says if its
OK with the DEC, its OK with him. Well, Mr. Martens who heads up the state DEC has already stated his plans for allowing drilling without waiting for the comment period to close. Next Gov. Cuomo says hell sign a bill allowing large amounts of water to be drawn out of state lakes and probably rivers as well. You need millions and millions of gallons of water to mix
with sand and special chemicals (several toxic) in order to do hydrofracking. You can see where his stand is on the issue; its the bottom line money. Its easier to stop a problem before it
happens than it is to clean it up later, if at all possible.
Apparently, hydrofrack now and later get stuck with the cleanup bill that no one can afford. Politicians only care about what makes them look good or what they can get out of it material-wise. Id guess they only pretend to work for us while lining their own pockets and getting re-elected. If you leave it up to one person toaffect the rest of us, like the DEC, you
can start putting money down on prepaid
future funerals before your
health starts to fail and leaves you
bankrupt.
Also beware of landfill runoff. Its
almost as bad as hydrofracking. This
is one guinea pig that wants out of
this lab experiment. I will not go quietly
to my grave.
STEPHEN FALLON
Stanley

*****************************

To the Editor:
I am so glad that Sen. Schumer
(Uncle Chuck) is looking out for us
here in the region. I bet there were
just thousands of letters, faxes and emails
by his constituents anxious to
have millions of New York state taxpayer
dollars go to an offshore, multibillion-
dollar company (Moser Baer) to
create (someday) 59 new jobs at a cost
of over $300,000 per job. With these 59
(someday) new jobs, they will fall only
4,941 short of the 5,000 jobs promised
nearly seven years and $140 million
ago at Infotonics, a registered public
charity now with the new improved
name of SCT and even further
improved with the extension name
College of Nanotechnology.
Yes, thanks for coming to western
New York to promote a project that
has been a failure for 10 years!
By the way did any of your constituents
ever mention their disapproval
of hydrofracking? I know I sent
a fax and e-mail and so did my
friends, family, co-workers, business
associates. And they told their friends,
family, co-workers and their business
associates who also sent letters faxes
and e-mails, and then those friends,
family, co-workers and their business
associates told their friends, family, coworkers
and business associates to
write letters, send faxes and e-mails.
This over the course of a few years
now. Did you get any? Wed love to
hear back from you as I know you
have only our best interest at heart.
Love and kisses to you, Uncle
Chuck.
(PS: How much is the tuition at the
College of Nanotechnology? George
Orwells spirit would like to know.)

JIM BOBRESKI
Penn Yan
Drill baby drill!!!!
_________________________
Nuke em til they glow; then shoot em in the dark


Top
#1296053 --- 09/01/11 12:15 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: Harleybob5]
pixie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 1912
Loc: Romulus
out of 47 salt storage domes in the USA 20 have had accidents here are a few .



Statistically, the odds are remote that single-point failures involving natural gas storage facilities can produce the kind of catastrophic losses such as what occurred at Moss Bluff. Be that as it may, they have happened before. In every case, a salt cavern storage facility was the culprit, not a depleted reservoir or aquifer gas storage facilit

In the Houston area, a devastating explosion and fire occurred at the Brenham salt cavern storage facility in April 1992 when a storage cavern was over-filled and leaked liquid petroleum gas (LPG). Several people were killed in that catastrophe.

In 1980, a similar LPG leak caused by corroded casing resulted in an explosion and fire at a salt cavern storage facility located on the Barbers Hill salt dome, which is home to a multitude of salt caverns comprising the Mont Belvieu salt cavern storage complex, not far from Moss Bluff.

Another explosion and fire occurred at the Mont Belvieu storage complex in November 1985, killing two people and prompting the evacuation of the entire towns population of more than 2,000 residents.

Yet another fire and explosion occurred at the Mont Belvieu storage complex in October 1984 that caused several million dollars in property damage.

In 1978, a failure at a crude oil storage cavern at the West Hackberry salt cavern storage facility in south Louisiana caused the release of an estimated 72,000 barrels of crude oil, which caught fire and killed one worker.

An explosion and fire occurred in January 2001 at the Yaggy salt cavern facility near Hutchison, Kan., resulting in several deaths and substantial property damage.

In the early 1970s, the Eminence salt cavern gas storage facility in Mississippi experienced such severe salt creep (i.e., the shrinking or collapse of cavern walls) in one of its caverns that almost half of the caverns storage capacity was lost.

A casing leak at Entergy-Kochs Magnolia salt cavern facility near Napoleonville, La., resulted in a large quantity of gas reportedly being vented to the atmosphere, which forced the shutdown of the facility as well as the evacuation of residents in the area until the leak was contained.

In the early 1990s, the now-defunct U.S. Energy subsidiary of Germanys Metallgesellschaft contracted for a third party to develop a salt cavern for natural gas storage at the Stratton Ridge salt dome in Brazoria County near Freeport, Texas. The cavern failed a mechanical integrity test because it leaked gas when pressured up for storage and had to be abandoned.
_________________________
chemical / electrical engineer .

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#1296064 --- 09/01/11 02:31 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: pixie]
Here's Johnny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 853
Loc: New York
I have the occasion to talk with folks from Pennsylvania on a regular basis. Many of them freely comment that they wish that Hydro-fracturing was not occurring where they live. This is especially true in Bradford Co. They universally regret what the gas drilling business has done to their environment.

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#1296069 --- 09/01/11 03:09 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: Here's Johnny]
Ayuveda Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Stop the spread of fracking filth.



Cuomo Letter: Revised Gas Drilling and Wastewater Spreading

August 30, 2011

By Fax

Honorable Andrew M. Cuomo
Governor of New York State
The Capitol
Albany, NY 12224

Dear Governor Cuomo:

I write to request that you require your Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) to stop authorizing the spreading of millions of gallons of potentially toxic and radioactive natural gas wastewater, known as “brine” or “produced water,” on thousands of miles of New York roadways for dust-control, winter de-icing and roadbed stabilization.

I also request that you require DEC to withdraw its Preliminary Revised Draft Supplemental Generic Environmental Impact Statement (SGEIS) due to its failure to fulfill Executive Order No. 41’s mandate to a) assess the environmental impacts of natural gas wastewater land-spreading and b) offer a plan to “avoid or mitigate” the impacts of that practice.

Natural Gas Wastewater Land-Spreading Concerns

DEC’s Beneficial Use Determination (BUD) program has approved natural gas wastewater to be spread on roadways at farms, residential and business properties, a summer camp for children, a water treatment plant, County fairgrounds, State lands as well as areas adjoining critical drinking water supply sources, including a major reservoir and “sole-source” and primary aquifers.

DEC has reportedly approved natural gas wastewater spreading in Chemung, Broome, Tompkins, Tioga, Chenango, Steuben, Cayuga, Cortland, Madison, Genesee, Chautauqua, Cattaraugus, Allegany, Wyoming and Otsego Counties. For example, Chautauqua County reportedly spread a total 1,322,450 gallons of “gas well production brine” in 2010 – 2011.

Natural gas drilling wastewater is documented to be contaminated with high levels of chloride and other Total Dissolved Solids (TDS), including toxic metals, as well as petroleum hydrocarbons, such as benzene, a known human cancer-causing agent, and radionuclides. Many of these pollutants are persistent when released into the environment and can pose serious threats to public health.

I have posted documents related to this practice at: http://toxicstargeting.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/foil-hl-110718.pdf

Natural gas wastewater spreading should have been banned decades ago when spraying waste oil on dusty roads was outlawed along with burying garbage in open pits. It is inconceivable that DEC still authorizes spreading potentially toxic and radioactive gas wastewater on roadways in watersheds all over the Central, Southwestern and Leatherstockings regions of New York.

I have posted an Overview Map illustrating where the gas wastewater has been approved for land-spreading: http://toxicstargeting.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/Overview_110720_1500...

Preliminary Revised Draft SGEIS Fails to Address Gas Wastewater Land-Spreading Concerns

The Preliminary Revised Draft SGEIS released on 7/8/11 fails to assess the environmental impacts of natural gas wastewater spreading in any meaningful way. It does not characterize the range of toxic and radionuclide constituents present in natural gas drilling flowback or brine/produced water. It presents only limited analytical data for brine generated by natural gas drilling, production, storage or pipeline operations. It does not determine the fate and transport of persistent gas wastewater contaminants released into the environment by the road spreading practice. It assesses neither the short-term nor the long-term health and environmental impacts of uncontrolled brine pollutants.

Land-Spreading Impact Not Assessed by DEC Pursuant to Executive Order No. 41

DEC Commissioner Martens has toured New York State to assure citizens that horizontal hydrofracturing in Marcellus Shale can be done “safely.” DEC has similarly provided assurances that gas wastewater spreading is “safe” even though it conducted no public health or environmental impact studies as part of revising the Draft SGEIS pursuant to Executive Order No. 41.

DEC cannot possibly safeguard public health and the environment if it routinely authorizes the dumping of millions of gallons of potentially toxic and radioactive gas drilling wastewater without conducting the comprehensive assessment mandated by Executive Order No. 41.

According to that Order, DEC must:

“complete its review of the public comments, make such revisions to the Draft SGEIS that are necessary to analyze comprehensively the environmental impacts associated with high-volume hydraulic fracturing combined with horizontal drilling, ensure that such impacts are appropriately avoided or mitigated consistent with the State Environmental Quality Review Act (SEQRA), other provisions of the Environmental Conservation Law and other laws, and ensures (stet) that adequate regulatory measures are identified to protect public health and the environment;”

DEC should fulfill that mandate by immediately working with the State Department of Health to conduct a comprehensive assessment of the environmental and health impacts of all roadways and areas where natural gas wastewater spreading was approved by DEC, including residential properties, public and State lands, sole-source and primary aquifers and other water supply sources, notably the watersheds you reportedly consider sacrosanct.

Thank you for your consideration.

Best regards,

Walter Hang
215 North Cayuga Street
Ithaca, NY 14850
_________________________
Sometimes, tear gas can make you see better.
-graffiti in Athens


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#1296080 --- 09/01/11 05:46 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: Ayuveda]
Here's Johnny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 853
Loc: New York
We are getting lied to all the time. All those nifty commercials on the TV showing the calm voiced announcer, riding in her virtual elevator(GTFOH), and showing how great it all will be. Lies, lies, lies.

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#1296081 --- 09/01/11 05:52 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: Ayuveda]
brainman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 715
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Stop the spread of fracking filth.



Cuomo Letter: Revised Gas Drilling and Wastewater Spreading

August 30, 2011

By Fax

Honorable Andrew M. Cuomo
Governor of New York State
The Capitol
Albany, NY 12224

Dear Governor Cuomo:

I write to request that you require your Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) to stop authorizing the spreading of millions of gallons of potentially toxic and radioactive natural gas wastewater, known as “brine” or “produced water,” on thousands of miles of New York roadways for dust-control, winter de-icing and roadbed stabilization.

I also request that you require DEC to withdraw its Preliminary Revised Draft Supplemental Generic Environmental Impact Statement (SGEIS) due to its failure to fulfill Executive Order No. 41’s mandate to a) assess the environmental impacts of natural gas wastewater land-spreading and b) offer a plan to “avoid or mitigate” the impacts of that practice.

Natural Gas Wastewater Land-Spreading Concerns

DEC’s Beneficial Use Determination (BUD) program has approved natural gas wastewater to be spread on roadways at farms, residential and business properties, a summer camp for children, a water treatment plant, County fairgrounds, State lands as well as areas adjoining critical drinking water supply sources, including a major reservoir and “sole-source” and primary aquifers.

DEC has reportedly approved natural gas wastewater spreading in Chemung, Broome, Tompkins, Tioga, Chenango, Steuben, Cayuga, Cortland, Madison, Genesee, Chautauqua, Cattaraugus, Allegany, Wyoming and Otsego Counties. For example, Chautauqua County reportedly spread a total 1,322,450 gallons of “gas well production brine” in 2010 – 2011.

Natural gas drilling wastewater is documented to be contaminated with high levels of chloride and other Total Dissolved Solids (TDS), including toxic metals, as well as petroleum hydrocarbons, such as benzene, a known human cancer-causing agent, and radionuclides. Many of these pollutants are persistent when released into the environment and can pose serious threats to public health.

I have posted documents related to this practice at: http://toxicstargeting.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/foil-hl-110718.pdf

Natural gas wastewater spreading should have been banned decades ago when spraying waste oil on dusty roads was outlawed along with burying garbage in open pits. It is inconceivable that DEC still authorizes spreading potentially toxic and radioactive gas wastewater on roadways in watersheds all over the Central, Southwestern and Leatherstockings regions of New York.

I have posted an Overview Map illustrating where the gas wastewater has been approved for land-spreading: http://toxicstargeting.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/Overview_110720_1500...

Preliminary Revised Draft SGEIS Fails to Address Gas Wastewater Land-Spreading Concerns

The Preliminary Revised Draft SGEIS released on 7/8/11 fails to assess the environmental impacts of natural gas wastewater spreading in any meaningful way. It does not characterize the range of toxic and radionuclide constituents present in natural gas drilling flowback or brine/produced water. It presents only limited analytical data for brine generated by natural gas drilling, production, storage or pipeline operations. It does not determine the fate and transport of persistent gas wastewater contaminants released into the environment by the road spreading practice. It assesses neither the short-term nor the long-term health and environmental impacts of uncontrolled brine pollutants.

Land-Spreading Impact Not Assessed by DEC Pursuant to Executive Order No. 41

DEC Commissioner Martens has toured New York State to assure citizens that horizontal hydrofracturing in Marcellus Shale can be done “safely.” DEC has similarly provided assurances that gas wastewater spreading is “safe” even though it conducted no public health or environmental impact studies as part of revising the Draft SGEIS pursuant to Executive Order No. 41.

DEC cannot possibly safeguard public health and the environment if it routinely authorizes the dumping of millions of gallons of potentially toxic and radioactive gas drilling wastewater without conducting the comprehensive assessment mandated by Executive Order No. 41.

According to that Order, DEC must:

“complete its review of the public comments, make such revisions to the Draft SGEIS that are necessary to analyze comprehensively the environmental impacts associated with high-volume hydraulic fracturing combined with horizontal drilling, ensure that such impacts are appropriately avoided or mitigated consistent with the State Environmental Quality Review Act (SEQRA), other provisions of the Environmental Conservation Law and other laws, and ensures (stet) that adequate regulatory measures are identified to protect public health and the environment;”

DEC should fulfill that mandate by immediately working with the State Department of Health to conduct a comprehensive assessment of the environmental and health impacts of all roadways and areas where natural gas wastewater spreading was approved by DEC, including residential properties, public and State lands, sole-source and primary aquifers and other water supply sources, notably the watersheds you reportedly consider sacrosanct.

Thank you for your consideration.

Best regards,

Walter Hang
215 North Cayuga Street
Ithaca, NY 14850




How many times does this guy use the word potentially as he has no proof. Making accusations without proof. Activism at its best here. I'm sure the DEC has done all the testing required to make sure this practice is safe. I'm sure they know more than a Cornell college professor trying to push his agenda.
_________________________
your past will follow you forever

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#1296083 --- 09/01/11 05:53 PM Re: Frack legislation [Re: Here's Johnny]
brainman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 715
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Here's Johnny
We are getting lied to all the time. All those nifty commercials on the TV showing the calm voiced announcer, riding in her virtual elevator(GTFOH), and showing how great it all will be. Lies, lies, lies.



No worse than some of the activist crap that is being pushed.
_________________________
your past will follow you forever

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