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#1252159 --- 02/04/11 06:57 PM Hairs standing up on my neck need input.....
Let's be frank Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 202
Loc: NY
Let's say there is a school trip (overnight with chaperones) - and that it costs, but let's say we can't afford it. Hypothetically let's say we have a daughter of teen age. Hypothetically let's say one of her male teachers called her aside from all others and said "I know your parents can't pay for this trip but there are still 1-2 spaces" and you could go for free because it would be great if really "cool" (that's what she said HE said) kids like you could go.

My gut feeling is that my antenae as a parent went UP! If it had been a female teacher, I think my wife and I would've thought "OK"....am I wrong to be suspicious?

Would appreciate your input. Meanwhile - have thought to give an excuse why she can't go; don't want to make a big issue bue also as a Dad don't think everything is "kosher".

Your opinions, please,
Let's be Frank

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#1252161 --- 02/04/11 07:02 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
Qwill Pen Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 821
Loc: New York
I think I would be suspicious as a "hypothetical" parent. I think any offer for a free trip should come from the principal's office. Don't parents have to sign permission slips anymore?

Why not have the "hypothetical" father call the teacher up and politely ask for further information about the trip - where the funds are coming from, with whom would she share a room, etc.

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#1252168 --- 02/04/11 07:51 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
talkinmiss72 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 182
Loc: Over there.
Doesn't sound "right" to me...I definitely would be asking more questions!!

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#1252169 --- 02/04/11 07:59 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
angelaboveme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 1219
Loc: NY
The well meaning teacher should have proposed this idea to the parents, not the child. Irregardless of funds, the parents may not have consented to the trip anyways.
If it were me I would alert the principal of the offer. Take it higher if it's not taken seriously.
Definitely something is not right. Hypothetically speaking of course.
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#1252172 --- 02/04/11 08:06 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: angelaboveme]
Let's be frank Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 202
Loc: NY
Thank u all for your input - didn't sounds "right" to us either, so I just emailed the principal asking if they had such EXTRA funds for this trip. This thing really bothers us because our "hypothetical daughter" became an honor student in that class (and I check her homework - she is WAY up there!!! - her teacher is not showing any favoritism) - hope the teacher won't "retalliate" (by giving her poor grades) because we've asked principal a few questions about this. Again - thanks for your input!

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#1252175 --- 02/04/11 08:10 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
nizhoni Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/10
Posts: 456
Loc: U.S.
While the teacher should have sent a home a letter to the parents explaining this. I'm sure it's all innocent. Teachers develop caring attitudes towards their students and I'm betting that he may have felt bad that she couldn't go. Also, maybe the school does have extra paid spaces for children that can't afford it, so that they can feel a part of the group and not excluded from it. Talk to the principal but I also would not go to the point of bad-mouthing the teacher or making it a huge deal.

Originally Posted By: Let's be frank
Thank u all for your input - didn't sounds "right" to us either, so I just emailed the principal asking if they had such EXTRA funds for this trip. This thing really bothers us because our "hypothetical daughter" became an honor student in that class (and I check her homework - she is WAY up there!!! - her teacher is not showing any favoritism) - hope the teacher won't "retalliate" (by giving her poor grades) because we've asked principal a few questions about this. Again - thanks for your input!
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#1252180 --- 02/04/11 08:37 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: nizhoni]
Let's be frank Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 202
Loc: NY
Oh no - definitely no one here is bad-mouthing the teacher!! I did ask Principal is they had such extra funds. Even if the answer is no, we would probably make an "excuse" why our daughter couldn't go.....sick relative, whatever. It could be her teacher just has a big heart and cares. That's why I put it before you all for answers. Thanks

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#1252182 --- 02/04/11 08:41 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: nizhoni]
hikingboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 203
Wow........ I have to think the teacher was well intended and I do agree the idea of having a great hardworking student go on a trip would be a privilege , instead of one of those kids who gets a free ride, goes on the trip and raises hell the whole time. I'm thinking the intensions were good but the course of delivery was off.

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#1252184 --- 02/04/11 08:49 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
angelaboveme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 1219
Loc: NY
At any rate, give that girl a hug and tell her how proud you are of her. Says a lot that she came to you and told you. Can I ask did she feel funny about the offer as well?
Well meaning or not, I believe teachers have plenty of workshops on how not to put themselves in a situation resembling this. If innocent, then this well meaning teacher may need further education on the topic.
The not so innocent side of this shows up all the time in the news, better safe than sorry where kids are concerned.
Bringing up the manner in which the offer was made to the teacher and principal both (perhaps ask for a meeting)can't hurt and does not constitute bad mouthing.


Edited by angelaboveme (02/04/11 08:50 PM)
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#1252186 --- 02/04/11 09:08 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: angelaboveme]
Let's be frank Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 202
Loc: NY
In my opinion, I felt she was unusually "tongue-tied" in repeating his words (normally she spits everything out!). She isn't that way normally. She kept saying "I don't know exactly how to say it, but...." - I don't want to put the teacher in jeopardy - but I did send a simple email to principal ASKING if there were extra funds. It could all be innocent; perhaps the principal can tell us if there were extra places available for free. Again - I VALUE all your input!

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#1252206 --- 02/04/11 11:31 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
NWofNYC Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/07
Posts: 884
Loc: 42.865245, -76.977403

Is your daughter "cool"?

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#1252236 --- 02/05/11 07:26 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: NWofNYC]
sassyone Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 11439
Loc: Seneca Falls,NY,
I doubt that the SCHOOL has extra funds, after all, if they have extra funds for this, what budget item did this get put under. But it might be possible that there is a parent booster club or something that has made possible funds for things like this. Not part of the school budget.

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#1252237 --- 02/05/11 07:31 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
Perplexed Offline
Member

Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 144
Loc: geneva
Originally Posted By: Let's be frank
Oh no - definitely no one here is bad-mouthing the teacher!! I did ask Principal is they had such extra funds. Even if the answer is no, we would probably make an "excuse" why our daughter couldn't go.....sick relative, whatever. It could be her teacher just has a big heart and cares. That's why I put it before you all for answers. Thanks


Not bad mouthing the teacher? hypothetically?? Really....not suspicious? really? Wow....

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#1252238 --- 02/05/11 07:36 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
Perplexed Offline
Member

Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 144
Loc: geneva
Originally Posted By: Let's be frank
Let's say there is a school trip (overnight with chaperones) - and that it costs, but let's say we can't afford it. Hypothetically let's say we have a daughter of teen age. Hypothetically let's say one of her male teachers called her aside from all others and said "I know your parents can't pay for this trip but there are still 1-2 spaces" and you could go for free because it would be great if really "cool" (that's what she said HE said) kids like you could go.

My gut feeling is that my antenae as a parent went UP! If it had been a female teacher, I think my wife and I would've thought "OK"....am I wrong to be suspicious?

Would appreciate your input. Meanwhile - have thought to give an excuse why she can't go; don't want to make a big issue bue also as a Dad don't think everything is "kosher".

Your opinions, please,
Let's be Frank


Did it ever occur to you that perhaps this teacher can read between the lines and knows this child probably cant afford t but it would be a great educaitonal/social experience for the child? And because its a male teacher you are suspicious??? Thats horrible.... and quite frankly, if you were that suspicious, you should have taken care of it privately, not on a puboic forum... teachers get a bad enough rapp from society... What if the teacher just pushed this child aside and said.. oh well.. too bad for you... there are no other options.. then would you ave come on this forum and bashed the teacher for not caring? discrimination? Wow..... when does the teacher win???

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#1252242 --- 02/05/11 07:39 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Perplexed]
dottiehuckle Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/23/04
Posts: 3697
Loc: P-CS, NY
Did they have a money making "event" to help pay for said trip? Such as selling magazines,baked goods,car wash, if there was a money making venture to help pay for the trip maybe there is extra cash in that account. Just wanted to put that out there, might be worth asking.
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#1252243 --- 02/05/11 07:41 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
jojotaxpayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 2500
Loc: Ontario County
Is this "male teacher" a chaperone on the aforementioned trip ?

If not I think you are overreacting.

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#1252248 --- 02/05/11 07:50 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
I know of a very similar situation and there was nothing nefarious about it. An honor student wasn't able to go on a trip to DC because her parents couldn't afford it. Due to one student canceling and some extra funds (which I think came from fundraisers as someone else stated was a possibility in this situation) a female child was asked by a female teacher if she wanted to go.

The child said yes, and then the teacher told her to have her parents contact her. In fact, THREE additional kids were taken that couldn't afford to go. AND, when hearing about this I had to wonder if some teachers and other parents donated funds for good kids who deserved to go but who couldn't afford it. It wasn't my kid so I didn't ask.

I also agree putting this on a public forum without knowing the facts (before you got word back from the principal) is not fair to the teacher or the school. I realize people need to protect their kids but some restraint in this situation was warranted.

Do you realize you just put your teen-age daughter's personal business on a public forum? Do you realize how you may have embarrassed her and put her up for ridicule if people figure out who she is? IMO, you are foolish.

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#1252252 --- 02/05/11 08:01 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Animal Lover]
Perplexed Offline
Member

Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 144
Loc: geneva
Originally Posted By: Animal Lover
I know of a very similar situation and there was nothing nefarious about it. An honor student wasn't able to go on a trip to DC because her parents couldn't afford it. Due to one student canceling and some extra funds (which I think came from fundraisers as someone else stated was a possibility in this situation) a female child was asked by a female teacher if she wanted to go.

The child said yes, and then the teacher told her to have her parents contact her. In fact, THREE additional kids were taken that couldn't afford to go. AND, when hearing about this I had to wonder if some teachers and other parents donated funds for good kids who deserved to go but who couldn't afford it. It wasn't my kid so I didn't ask.

I also agree putting this on a public forum without knowing the facts (before you got word back from the principal) is not fair to the teacher or the school. I realize people need to protect their kids but some restraint in this situation was warranted.

Do you realize you just put your teen-age daughter's personal business on a public forum? Do you realize how you may have embarrassed her and put her up for ridicule if people figure out who she is? IMO, you are foolish.


Agree.. well said!

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#1252267 --- 02/05/11 08:27 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Perplexed]
Let's be frank Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 202
Loc: NY
Well my intent was to get feedback (good and bad). I didn't mention nefarious intentions. I just didn't know if this was normal. There are cultural reasons it didn't seem normal to us. If the offer had come from the teacher to us, little would be thought of it. Another teacher had (in a previous year) paid for an event out the the goodness of her heart, but she firstly consulted with us, asked permission (long before telling our daughter "she could go") and we signed a permission slip. And if you feel the hypothetical teen has been embarrassed, then I would appreciate a moderator deleting the post.

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#1252280 --- 02/05/11 09:11 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
tryingtokeepup Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 1
Loc: NY, USA
So it would have been okay for a female teacher to offer the deal...

I believe I have some insight into this situation and know for a fact that "scholarships" are offered for several kids, boys and girls, throughout the year based on a variety of well intentioned reasons for class trips. Several student names are given to the chaperones of the trips, some trips are paid for by teachers/staff in the building, some are paid for by funds raised by the group. This teacher was probably given the name of your child and he just asked her. Although it is good to be watchful for your kid, give the teacher the benefit of contacting him to try to find out more.

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#1252346 --- 02/05/11 02:02 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
S.P. King 2nd Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 281
Loc: PARTYING!
Originally Posted By: Let's be frank
Let's say there is a school trip (overnight with chaperones) - and that it costs, but let's say we can't afford it. Hypothetically let's say we have a daughter of teen age. Hypothetically let's say one of her male teachers called her aside from all others and said "I know your parents can't pay for this trip but there are still 1-2 spaces" and you could go for free because it would be great if really "cool" (that's what she said HE said) kids like you could go.

My gut feeling is that my antenae as a parent went UP! If it had been a female teacher, I think my wife and I would've thought "OK"....am I wrong to be suspicious?

Would appreciate your input. Meanwhile - have thought to give an excuse why she can't go; don't want to make a big issue bue also as a Dad don't think everything is "kosher".

Your opinions, please,
Let's be Frank


My gut feeling is that you are an IDIOT!!!!! Why do you have to make it anymore than it is, a teacher helping out a student who's parents cannot afford to send her on this trip. A teacher see's this, wants her to have this experience and be with her friends instead of missing out on the opportunity. Instead of making her feel awkward about the school footing the bill or being considered an exception the teacher tried to be "cool" about the situation.

Why does it have to anything more than a teaching helping out a student???? It must be really hard tryig to be a male teacher who actually cares about his students and wants to help with idiots like you and your wife running around assuming he is a pedophile after teenage girls, making threads about it on a well known community forum.

People like you are probably what turns a teacher like this who cares about students, wanting to help into some too afraid to want to care or help!!!!!

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#1252352 --- 02/05/11 02:20 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: S.P. King 2nd]
jojotaxpayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 2500
Loc: Ontario County
I think that's the first time I may have to agree with you Queenie.

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#1252361 --- 02/05/11 02:53 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
Della Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 16305
Loc: Seneca Falls
I'm almost at a loss how to phrase this. Clearly you are used to this kind of thing through certain channels. I give your child kudos for coming to you with this. I do strongly believe it's wrong to come on here BEFORE you spoke to the school about it. None of us know the situation. I am a single mom and no one has ever paid for my kids period. I would take it to the school not a forum.
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#1252381 --- 02/05/11 04:38 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Della]
sassyone Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 11439
Loc: Seneca Falls,NY,
Why should he have to feel embarrassed? Its not like he used the name of the school, even where the trip is going. It could be any school he is talking about in a 4-5 county area.

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#1252382 --- 02/05/11 04:47 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Della]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
I do strongly believe it's wrong to come on here BEFORE you spoke to the school about it. None of us know the situation.
I would take it to the school not a forum.


I agree on both points, and also think the teacher should have taken it to the parents, and not to the child.

Quote:
I am a single mom and no one has ever paid for my kids period.


You touch upon another reservation I have. There may have been times you gave up something else in order to pay for something similar to this trip, while other parents made the other choice, or times when you just decided you couldn't afford it, period, and you didn't expect the taxpayers to ante up the fee for you.

I don't think that a trip is necessarily part of a good public education; in fact, it's probably not, and I don't think that forcing taxpayers to pay for a trip, just so the kid doesn't feel poor, or "excluded" is moral. We're not talking education, food, clothing or heat here.

I'm sure the kid might also feel poor and excluded if the parents can't afford a house or car as nice as her friends' parents', or for a trip to Aruba, FI, but that also doesn't mean her friends' parents should be forced to pay for those things. To me, the logic is the same.

No material thing is free, and the school doesn't pay for anything. Rather, it forces people to pay, and it forces some people to pay more than other people.

You can make the case that this is necessary, even if not fair, for pressing social needs such as education, but I don't think pleasure trips meet even that standard.

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#1252383 --- 02/05/11 04:50 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: sassyone]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
Why should he have to feel embarrassed?


Who said he has to feel embarrassed? What would make him feel embarrassed?
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1252485 --- 02/06/11 02:07 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
s2hphoto.com Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 3303
Loc: NYS
I know last year my daughter's drama club trip to NYC 2 extra kids were allowed to go for free due to a last minute cancellation and extra funds that were received. My wife was also allowed to go as a chaperon for free.

While I am usually suspicious of peoples intent. I think it might be an offer of good will as well as guaranteeing they will have at least one bright, upstanding, well behaved child on the trip that they wouldn't have to worry about, and a potential role model.
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#1252670 --- 02/06/11 04:41 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: s2hphoto.com]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
at least one bright, upstanding, well behaved child on the trip


She may be that, but I have no way of knowing that. I also have no way of knowing that the other kids are trash, and need a role model. What makes you think they are?
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1252810 --- 02/07/11 10:53 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
s2hphoto.com Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 3303
Loc: NYS
I never said they were..... But taking an entire group on a field trip you know you are going to have some that don't behave, and if teachers like her and she's well behaved I am sure they would much have her go then some of the others who have signed up and can afford it.
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Spiritual people inspire me.
Religious people FRIGHTEN me!

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#1252921 --- 02/07/11 07:47 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: s2hphoto.com]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
You don't know why the teacher "likes" her and you don't know anything about her or about any of the others who are going. For all you know, this girl might not behave well, and for all you know, the teacher's motive is suspect.

I'm not saying Lbf's daughter will behave badly, and I don't know her. I'm just saying it's a theoretical possibility which, not knowing her, I can't discount. Since I don't know any of the kids, I'll assume she's pretty much like the average kid in the group.

My antennae go up because the teacher dealt with the child, and not with the parent, when it's the parent's decision to make. Why? Also, Lbf heard his daughter, and saw her body language, and he shouldn't discount the uneasy feelings that I think he has. If she does go, he should make sure that that particular teacher is not his daughter's chaperone.

Everything's always just fine, until something happens.
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1252958 --- 02/08/11 04:54 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
s2hphoto.com Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 3303
Loc: NYS
I am just speaking from experience. A few years ago when my daughter was in the G.R.E.A.T. summer program she was in the 13-15 age group. The 16-18 group was having a field trip to the Bills training camp. There was a extra spot on the bus and because she was so well behaved and liked by ALL the counselors she was asked if she would like to go by a MALE counselor (both male and female counselors went). She went, had a great time, and nothing *hinky* happened.

With it being said she is an honor student I am *assuming* she is well behaved because I don't know too many kids that are honor students and well liked by teachers that are wild and cause trouble.

I assumed this just like you assumed I said all the other kids were *trash* \:\/

It could be an honest mistake by the teacher or why even bother going through the hassle of asking the principal, heads of the trip, or the parents before even knowing if the child even wants to go. Wouldn't the first step be to ask the child?

With that being said and assuming the child wants to go, I do think a call to the school or principal to make sure things are legit is in order considering it is an overnight. Which I would do anyways regardless WHO asked her or with ANY trip with or without being asked by a teacher.
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Spiritual people inspire me.
Religious people FRIGHTEN me!

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#1253017 --- 02/08/11 12:07 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
sassyone Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 11439
Loc: Seneca Falls,NY,
Originally Posted By: Let's be frank
And if you feel the hypothetical teen has been embarrassed, then I would appreciate a moderator deleting the post.


VM, What I meant was the hypothetical teen shouldn't feel embarrassed by posting this on a forum. Who would know WHAT hypothetical teen he was talking about? Maybe I should have said "hypothetical teen" instead of "he".

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#1253030 --- 02/08/11 01:28 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: s2hphoto.com]
angelaboveme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 1219
Loc: NY
I disagree that the first step is to ask the child. There may be other factors at play in the decision of if the child goes or not and that is up to the parents. To ask the child first, runs the possibility of causing a disagreement at home if the kid wants to go, and now it's paid for, making the parent the bad guy.
That the child appeared uncomfortable relaying this, I think it's worth looking into. If indeed it was innocent, then at least in the future this teacher won't place themselves in that situation again. If it wasn't innocent, maybe there have been other concerns regarding this teacher, it is worth bringing to the attention of the principal. If no one ever speaks up or just assumes the best, who knows what could go on. Certainly situations like this have made headlines before.
From your experience it sounds like you had the benefit of your wife accompanying your daughter on that trip. I'm sure that had a lot to do with your comfort level of your child's supervision on that trip. I think this situation is odd, either from ill intentions or inexperience on the part of the teacher, and if it were my kid, I'd look into it.
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#1253106 --- 02/08/11 05:38 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: sassyone]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Originally Posted By: sassyone
Originally Posted By: Let's be frank
And if you feel the hypothetical teen has been embarrassed, then I would appreciate a moderator deleting the post.


VM, What I meant was the hypothetical teen shouldn't feel embarrassed by posting this on a forum. Who would know WHAT hypothetical teen he was talking about? Maybe I should have said "hypothetical teen" instead of "he".


VM didn't make that statement; Lbf did.
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#1253107 --- 02/08/11 05:43 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: s2hphoto.com]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
why even bother going through the hassle of asking the principal, heads of the trip, or the parents before even knowing if the child even wants to go. Wouldn't the first step be to ask the child?


I think the 1st step should be to find out if the parents want the child to go. It's not the child's decision, or the teacher's or the principal's to make, so it's proper to first check with the ones who are to decide.
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1253168 --- 02/09/11 04:18 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: angelaboveme]
s2hphoto.com Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 3303
Loc: NYS
Quote:
To ask the child first, runs the possibility of causing a disagreement at home if the kid wants to go, and now it's paid for, making the parent the bad guy.


When it comes to my childs health, well being, or safety I have NO problem being "the bad guy". ;\)

As far as the NYC trip, we had already gone to the info meeting, signed the consent, and paid for the trip for Lindsay to go. My wife going as chaperon was a last minute bonus.

The Bills Training Camp however was the event she was asked to go to, but of course we called the program and got all the details and made sure it was *legit* before we signed the permission slip. That trip Holly or I did not go on
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Spiritual people inspire me.
Religious people FRIGHTEN me!

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#1253185 --- 02/09/11 05:43 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: s2hphoto.com]
angelaboveme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 1219
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: s2hphoto.com
Quote:
To ask the child first, runs the possibility of causing a disagreement at home if the kid wants to go, and now it's paid for, making the parent the bad guy.


When it comes to my childs health, well being, or safety I have NO problem being "the bad guy". ;\)

As far as the NYC trip, we had already gone to the info meeting, signed the consent, and paid for the trip for Lindsay to go. My wife going as chaperon was a last minute bonus.

The Bills Training Camp however was the event she was asked to go to, but of course we called the program and got all the details and made sure it was *legit* before we signed the permission slip. That trip Holly or I did not go on


Me either sweetie , but some folks do and the teacher had no right to ask the child first possibly causing unnecessary disagreements at home. Th teacher should be acting like the teacher, not as the child's parent, and should have enough sense and knowledge to check with a kid's legal guardian before offering trips.
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#1253274 --- 02/09/11 12:56 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: angelaboveme]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
Th teacher should be acting like the teacher, not as the child's parent, and should have enough sense and knowledge to check with a kid's legal guardian before offering trips.


Exactly.
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#1253412 --- 02/10/11 08:13 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
While I agree that the teacher (or anyone in charge at a school) should have asked the parents first some of you do realize that children are sometimes treated like prisoners in their home?

I know of a few parents that NEVER allow their children to go on field trips with the excuse that they fear something may happen to them. They claim they love them and are being protective of them when basically these parents are control freaks who enjoy having their children miss out on normal activities. They don't allow their children even at 15,16 to attend sleep overs or anything where they are out of their sight for more than school hours. They obviously have some sort of issues of over-protectiveness and control.

Scottie knows he has a good well-adjusted kid that he can trust, and IMO from what I've read him post, he is a good parent. If you haven't raised your children right then maybe you shouldn't allow them to go on field trips. If you can't trust them then that's a problem between you and your kids. Don't make it about the school.

This girl is old enough to know better than to get involved with a teacher and should be able to tell if something is not right with the way he is acting around her.

My point about embarrassing the teen-age girl is that it would not be that difficult for the teacher or the principal that was called to see this. The teacher may tell colleagues and if it trickles down (teachers do have kids in school)and sadly are just people too...they may gossip. It could possibly turn into Susie's parents think Mr. so and so is a perv. NICE!

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#1253413 --- 02/10/11 08:16 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Animal Lover]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
Quote:
The teacher should be acting like the teacher, not as the child's parent, and should have enough sense and knowledge to check with a kid's legal guardian before offering trips.


When field trips are announced at school they do not call each and every parent beforehand and ask if it is okay to offer their child a field trip. The kids take the information home along with a permission slip.

If the child knows their parents either can't afford it or are control freaks that won't allow them to go then they are still put in a position of feeling left out. A second offer was made here and for practical purposes it should have been made to the parents first but it's not as if it was offered to a small child. It's not like Susie's mom asked Jenny if she could spend the night before she asked Jenny's parents. The parents were already told about the field trip and supposedly declined because they couldn't afford it, not because they really didn't want her to go. At least that is what the story is now.

I would ask those that said maybe there would be other reasons why the parents wouldn't want their child to go...what would those reasons be?


Edited by Animal Lover (02/10/11 08:18 AM)

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#1253419 --- 02/10/11 08:37 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Animal Lover]
angelaboveme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 1219
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Animal Lover
While I agree that the teacher (or anyone in charge at a school) should have asked the parents first some of you do realize that children are sometimes treated like prisoners in their home?

I know of a few parents that NEVER allow their children to go on field trips with the excuse that they fear something may happen to them. They claim they love them and are being protective of them when basically these parents are control freaks who enjoy having their children miss out on normal activities. They don't allow their children even at 15,16 to attend sleep overs or anything where they are out of their sight for more than school hours. They obviously have some sort of issues of over-protectiveness and control.

Scottie knows he has a good well-adjusted kid that he can trust, and IMO from what I've read him post, he is a good parent. If you haven't raised your children right then maybe you shouldn't allow them to go on field trips. If you can't trust them then that's a problem between you and your kids. Don't make it about the school.

This girl is old enough to know better than to get involved with a teacher and should be able to tell if something is not right with the way he is acting around her. My point about embarrassing the teen-age girl is that it would not be that difficult for the teacher or the principal that was called to see this. The teacher may tell colleagues and if it trickles down (teachers do have kids in school)and sadly are just people too...they may gossip. It could possibly turn into Susie's parents think Mr. so and so is a perv. NICE!


Seriously, the child should know better?
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#1253436 --- 02/10/11 09:37 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Animal Lover]
angelaboveme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 1219
Loc: NY
Other reasons? Perhaps concerns over the quality of chaperones?

When field trips are announced at school they do not call each and every parent beforehand and ask if it is okay to offer their child a field trip. The kids take the information home along with a permission slip.

Nowhere does it say they recieved prior information beforehand and turned it down due to finances. If the school knew enough about the family's finances that they would offer the trip paid for, it doesn't seem like it's taking all the time to cold call every parent. Since the child in question is still a minor, and the parent says the child seemed uneasy relaying this, then maybe this was her way of letting her parents know.
To assume that just because your child is in school or with teachers on a trip (who knows what other parents go to chaperone) that they are safe is naive in this day and age. If the child went and something happened everyone would be jumping on the parents for not asking enough questions.
Just because I may not personally think that every field trip or chaperone is someone I want in charge of my child, does not prevent anyone else from choosing to send their child. I don't think that constitutes imprisonment either. There are plenty of opportunities outside of school for my kids to do things with trusted adults and friends, I don't rely on the school to provide a well rounded life experience for my kids. IMO too many parents do, and it's that blind trust just because "it's the school", that can make headlines.
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#1253599 --- 02/11/11 08:16 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: angelaboveme]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: angelaboveme
Seriously, the child should know better?


A teen-age child that is raised right and not coddled to the point that they is never any discussion about inappropriate behavior etc., should know that advances from an adult including a teacher is inappropriate. If they don't understand that due to emotional/mental disabilities, then of course the parents need to keep a close watch on them.


Originally Posted By: angelaboveme
Other reasons? Perhaps concerns over the quality of chaperones?

When field trips are announced at school they do not call each and every parent beforehand and ask if it is okay to offer their child a field trip. The kids take the information home along with a permission slip.

Nowhere does it say they recieved prior information beforehand and turned it down due to finances. If the school knew enough about the family's finances that they would offer the trip paid for, it doesn't seem like it's taking all the time to cold call every parent. Since the child in question is still a minor, and the parent says the child seemed uneasy relaying this, then maybe this was her way of letting her parents know.
To assume that just because your child is in school or with teachers on a trip (who knows what other parents go to chaperone) that they are safe is naive in this day and age. If the child went and something happened everyone would be jumping on the parents for not asking enough questions.
Just because I may not personally think that every field trip or chaperone is someone I want in charge of my child, does not prevent anyone else from choosing to send their child. I don't think that constitutes imprisonment either. There are plenty of opportunities outside of school for my kids to do things with trusted adults and friends, I don't rely on the school to provide a well rounded life experience for my kids. IMO too many parents do, and it's that blind trust just because "it's the school", that can make headlines.


Quality of chaperones? First of all, we were not talking about grade school kids, but even then a parent can be a bit over-protective. What makes you think you are more qualified or have better "qualities" than other parents?

The parents WERE OBVIOUSLY notified about the trip because they declined because they couldn't afford it. Reread the first post in this thread. The teacher knew the student wasn't going to go because of financial issues but informed her there were still openings LEFT. As in, there is still time for you to sign up.

You speak of headlines. Please show me the multiple headlines of field trips gone wild and children being abused or molested. I'm not talking about sports teams where out of town trips turn into parties. I'm talking about a field trip to the zoo and/or an overnight trip to NYC for a musical.

If something went wrong everyone would be jumping on the parents? I highly doubt that. If a minor was truly assaulted or severely injured due to the action and or neglect of the adults in charge everyone would be attacking the school/chaperones. The only way it would be different is if it were a teenager who had known issues and was a trouble maker. Such as if they in some way caused something bad to happen to them because they purposefully separated from the group or brought drugs/alcohol on the trip etc.

No offense, but you are obviously someone who is looking to worry about things to the point you would deny children from enjoyment. That way of thinking is exactly what I was referring to in my previous post.

In the end, it is ultimately a parents choice and I respect that it is the parent's child, no one else has the right to try to force a parent to make a decision that they are not comfortable with but I've seen too many over-protective parents really mess up their kids and deny them of things. And usually those people have control issues. They are the same type of people who control their spouses or try to control everything at work or clubs/groups they are involved in.

Edited to add this quote:

Quote:
Oh no - definitely no one here is bad-mouthing the teacher!! I did ask Principal is they had such extra funds. Even if the answer is no, we would probably make an "excuse" why our daughter couldn't go.....sick relative, whatever. It could be her teacher just has a big heart and cares. That's why I put it before you all for answers. Thanks


No bad mouthing of the teacher but his hairs are standing up and something is not kosher. And then he says he won't let her go and will make excuse for why, in other words lie. I find it sad that someone would deny their child and teach the child to lie all the while judging the school and the teachers ability to keep their child safe. If the offer wasn't legitimate then action needs to be taken against the teacher, not lie about why you won't let her go. This whole thing is odd.


Edited by Animal Lover (02/11/11 08:28 AM)

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#1253631 --- 02/11/11 12:37 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Animal Lover]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
I would ask those that said maybe there would be other reasons why the parents wouldn't want their child to go...what would those reasons be?


You want guesses? Maybe the parents know that Mr. so and so is a perv.

I remember one high school teacher when I was in school who liked to grope quite a few of the girls in his care; I heard it from them, and I guess some parents knew of it too. Nothing was ever done about it; he was eventually rewarded with a pension.

Quite often something is heard from trusted people about someone, but either the parent knows it would be very hard to prove, or they don't want to put their daughter through the embarrassing, public, and difficult process of getting rid of the creep, so they just tell her to stay away from him.

Whatever, once the parents have made it clear that they don't want their child going on the trip, that should be the end of it; the school shouldn't be working to undermine their stated wishes in the matter.
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#1253757 --- 02/12/11 07:14 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
Every high school occasionally has a pervy male teacher on staff. I remember a teacher like the one you describe. I don't remember him being touchy but he liked to check out and flirt with the girls and the sad thing is most of the girls encouraged it and liked it. They would even comment that Mr. so and so was a DOM (dirty old man). They knew better and I'm sure their parents knew about him too, but as you said no one does anything about it.

But do I think because of a situation like that, that an over-protective, paranoid parent shouldn't let their kid go on an overnight trip where there will be more than one chaperone? No. Besides on overnight trips male chaperones deal with the boys and female chaperones deal with the girls. At least that is how it was when I was in school.

And again, in this particular situation the parents said their teen-age daughter wasn't going to go because they couldn't afford it. If the teacher and/or school didn't know that there may be some other issues here, such as controlling or paranoid parents, then they might have thought that the parents would gladly accept help with the finances if that meant their daughter wouldn't miss out on something that most of her peers were going to participate in.

What I was getting at, at the end of my last reply is, if the offer was legit and the parents would still not let her go they were going to lie about why instead of being honest about their fears or whatever their issues are. What kind of parent teaches their kid to lie in order to protect themselves to not look over-protective parents? How would that be fair.

If it was not a legit offer but the principal assured them that all would be okay, in other words covering up for the teacher, and they still declined the offer by making excuses/lies, how does that do anyone any good? If the teacher was up to something nefarious I would demand the school take some sort of action such as putting him on probation and keeping a close watch on him.

My beef with all of this is that they brought it to a public forum before checking in with the school. Do you all notice he/she hasn't been back to say what the outcome was? Interesting.

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#1253870 --- 02/12/11 01:58 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Animal Lover]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
If the teacher and/or school didn't know that there may be some other issues here, such as controlling or paranoid parents, then they might have thought that the parents would gladly accept help with the finances if that meant their daughter wouldn't miss out on something that most of her peers were going to participate in.


Maybe the parents weren't paranoid; maybe they had what they felt were pretty good reasons to think something wasn't right, and just didn't want their suspicions to become public, where they might have had to defend them in court, with little or no legally sustaining proof to back them up. If that were the situation, and in some unknown number of cases it is, then I wouldn't blame the parents at all for using a cover fiction. And maybe they didn't want to bring down any retribution on the kid's head.

It doesn't matter what the teacher or school guessed; they should have dealt with the people who pay them, and who are responsible for the child's welfare, and not with the child. It is not the teacher's or school's place to try to second-guess the parents, or to try to lead the child into doing something that the 'rents don't want her to do, for whatever reason the parents may have. The school's job is to prepare the child, academically, for life, and not to coax her into battling with her parents about whether she should go on some trip.

You keep using "controlling" as a pejorative, but the parents are supposed to control the child, and to watch out for her best interests, with as little interference as possible, short of abuse or neglect; the relationship is not between legal equals.

The groping teacher I knew of was back in the mid 60's, and the girls were disgusted and angry. The ones I talked to I knew well, including my sister, and I figured they weren't faking the anger. It was an optional "non-academic" school activity, so they weren't playing him for grades. All of the girls had fully functional boyfriends, too, so they weren't "testing their female powers of attraction" either, IMO.

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#1253875 --- 02/12/11 02:15 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
We had one of "those" teachers in our high school too. He dated several high school girls when he was in his 40's and actually ended up marrying one of them.
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#1253877 --- 02/12/11 02:30 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: twocats]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
LOL, as an aging man, part of me says, "Wow...you go, guy!", but if I were the parent, I'd be reaching for a baseball bat.

In one sense, it should be legal for 2 adults to act as they please, even if one is 18 and the other 45. In another, a teacher is in a superior position of social power, and there are now laws that discourage that type of relationship, even if there is no complaint by a participant. I think he might be on thin legal ice today, if the 'rents wanted to push the matter. Maybe not, though.

Then again, in some situations, even buckets of ice water will have insufficient effect, and the parents might cave to a fait accompli...
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#1253881 --- 02/12/11 03:04 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
...oh the young girls in question were far from 18. I think he had a particular fondness for 15/16 year old girls. By the time most of the girls were seniors, they saw him for the repulsive predator he was. And, I'm sad to say, we watched, and said nothing each year as he preyed upon a new class of young'ns.
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Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1253954 --- 02/12/11 07:35 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: twocats]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Don't be too sad; you were just kids. It was the adults who really should have done something, and who should be ashamed that they didn't do anything; it had to have been known to some of them. Huge high school?
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1254012 --- 02/13/11 07:05 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
s2hphoto.com Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 3303
Loc: NYS
We didn't have any *pervy* male teachers in my High School, but we did have a female gym teacher that liked to hand out towels to the girls when they were done showering after gym class LOL I was envious of the fact her mustache was nicer than mine!
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#1254049 --- 02/13/11 09:16 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
No, and EVERYONE knew.
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#1305880 --- 11/02/11 12:01 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: twocats]
krystina Offline
Member

Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 79
Loc: new york
Well I think the teacher should have talk to the principal first and he or she presented this idea to you. No need to get the kids hopes up. Maybe talk with your school about a payment plan.

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