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#1253419 --- 02/10/11 08:37 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Animal Lover]
angelaboveme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 1219
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Animal Lover
While I agree that the teacher (or anyone in charge at a school) should have asked the parents first some of you do realize that children are sometimes treated like prisoners in their home?

I know of a few parents that NEVER allow their children to go on field trips with the excuse that they fear something may happen to them. They claim they love them and are being protective of them when basically these parents are control freaks who enjoy having their children miss out on normal activities. They don't allow their children even at 15,16 to attend sleep overs or anything where they are out of their sight for more than school hours. They obviously have some sort of issues of over-protectiveness and control.

Scottie knows he has a good well-adjusted kid that he can trust, and IMO from what I've read him post, he is a good parent. If you haven't raised your children right then maybe you shouldn't allow them to go on field trips. If you can't trust them then that's a problem between you and your kids. Don't make it about the school.

This girl is old enough to know better than to get involved with a teacher and should be able to tell if something is not right with the way he is acting around her. My point about embarrassing the teen-age girl is that it would not be that difficult for the teacher or the principal that was called to see this. The teacher may tell colleagues and if it trickles down (teachers do have kids in school)and sadly are just people too...they may gossip. It could possibly turn into Susie's parents think Mr. so and so is a perv. NICE!


Seriously, the child should know better?
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#1253436 --- 02/10/11 09:37 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Animal Lover]
angelaboveme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 1219
Loc: NY
Other reasons? Perhaps concerns over the quality of chaperones?

When field trips are announced at school they do not call each and every parent beforehand and ask if it is okay to offer their child a field trip. The kids take the information home along with a permission slip.

Nowhere does it say they recieved prior information beforehand and turned it down due to finances. If the school knew enough about the family's finances that they would offer the trip paid for, it doesn't seem like it's taking all the time to cold call every parent. Since the child in question is still a minor, and the parent says the child seemed uneasy relaying this, then maybe this was her way of letting her parents know.
To assume that just because your child is in school or with teachers on a trip (who knows what other parents go to chaperone) that they are safe is naive in this day and age. If the child went and something happened everyone would be jumping on the parents for not asking enough questions.
Just because I may not personally think that every field trip or chaperone is someone I want in charge of my child, does not prevent anyone else from choosing to send their child. I don't think that constitutes imprisonment either. There are plenty of opportunities outside of school for my kids to do things with trusted adults and friends, I don't rely on the school to provide a well rounded life experience for my kids. IMO too many parents do, and it's that blind trust just because "it's the school", that can make headlines.
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#1253599 --- 02/11/11 08:16 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: angelaboveme]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: angelaboveme
Seriously, the child should know better?


A teen-age child that is raised right and not coddled to the point that they is never any discussion about inappropriate behavior etc., should know that advances from an adult including a teacher is inappropriate. If they don't understand that due to emotional/mental disabilities, then of course the parents need to keep a close watch on them.


Originally Posted By: angelaboveme
Other reasons? Perhaps concerns over the quality of chaperones?

When field trips are announced at school they do not call each and every parent beforehand and ask if it is okay to offer their child a field trip. The kids take the information home along with a permission slip.

Nowhere does it say they recieved prior information beforehand and turned it down due to finances. If the school knew enough about the family's finances that they would offer the trip paid for, it doesn't seem like it's taking all the time to cold call every parent. Since the child in question is still a minor, and the parent says the child seemed uneasy relaying this, then maybe this was her way of letting her parents know.
To assume that just because your child is in school or with teachers on a trip (who knows what other parents go to chaperone) that they are safe is naive in this day and age. If the child went and something happened everyone would be jumping on the parents for not asking enough questions.
Just because I may not personally think that every field trip or chaperone is someone I want in charge of my child, does not prevent anyone else from choosing to send their child. I don't think that constitutes imprisonment either. There are plenty of opportunities outside of school for my kids to do things with trusted adults and friends, I don't rely on the school to provide a well rounded life experience for my kids. IMO too many parents do, and it's that blind trust just because "it's the school", that can make headlines.


Quality of chaperones? First of all, we were not talking about grade school kids, but even then a parent can be a bit over-protective. What makes you think you are more qualified or have better "qualities" than other parents?

The parents WERE OBVIOUSLY notified about the trip because they declined because they couldn't afford it. Reread the first post in this thread. The teacher knew the student wasn't going to go because of financial issues but informed her there were still openings LEFT. As in, there is still time for you to sign up.

You speak of headlines. Please show me the multiple headlines of field trips gone wild and children being abused or molested. I'm not talking about sports teams where out of town trips turn into parties. I'm talking about a field trip to the zoo and/or an overnight trip to NYC for a musical.

If something went wrong everyone would be jumping on the parents? I highly doubt that. If a minor was truly assaulted or severely injured due to the action and or neglect of the adults in charge everyone would be attacking the school/chaperones. The only way it would be different is if it were a teenager who had known issues and was a trouble maker. Such as if they in some way caused something bad to happen to them because they purposefully separated from the group or brought drugs/alcohol on the trip etc.

No offense, but you are obviously someone who is looking to worry about things to the point you would deny children from enjoyment. That way of thinking is exactly what I was referring to in my previous post.

In the end, it is ultimately a parents choice and I respect that it is the parent's child, no one else has the right to try to force a parent to make a decision that they are not comfortable with but I've seen too many over-protective parents really mess up their kids and deny them of things. And usually those people have control issues. They are the same type of people who control their spouses or try to control everything at work or clubs/groups they are involved in.

Edited to add this quote:

Quote:
Oh no - definitely no one here is bad-mouthing the teacher!! I did ask Principal is they had such extra funds. Even if the answer is no, we would probably make an "excuse" why our daughter couldn't go.....sick relative, whatever. It could be her teacher just has a big heart and cares. That's why I put it before you all for answers. Thanks


No bad mouthing of the teacher but his hairs are standing up and something is not kosher. And then he says he won't let her go and will make excuse for why, in other words lie. I find it sad that someone would deny their child and teach the child to lie all the while judging the school and the teachers ability to keep their child safe. If the offer wasn't legitimate then action needs to be taken against the teacher, not lie about why you won't let her go. This whole thing is odd.


Edited by Animal Lover (02/11/11 08:28 AM)

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#1253631 --- 02/11/11 12:37 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Animal Lover]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
I would ask those that said maybe there would be other reasons why the parents wouldn't want their child to go...what would those reasons be?


You want guesses? Maybe the parents know that Mr. so and so is a perv.

I remember one high school teacher when I was in school who liked to grope quite a few of the girls in his care; I heard it from them, and I guess some parents knew of it too. Nothing was ever done about it; he was eventually rewarded with a pension.

Quite often something is heard from trusted people about someone, but either the parent knows it would be very hard to prove, or they don't want to put their daughter through the embarrassing, public, and difficult process of getting rid of the creep, so they just tell her to stay away from him.

Whatever, once the parents have made it clear that they don't want their child going on the trip, that should be the end of it; the school shouldn't be working to undermine their stated wishes in the matter.
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#1253757 --- 02/12/11 07:14 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
Every high school occasionally has a pervy male teacher on staff. I remember a teacher like the one you describe. I don't remember him being touchy but he liked to check out and flirt with the girls and the sad thing is most of the girls encouraged it and liked it. They would even comment that Mr. so and so was a DOM (dirty old man). They knew better and I'm sure their parents knew about him too, but as you said no one does anything about it.

But do I think because of a situation like that, that an over-protective, paranoid parent shouldn't let their kid go on an overnight trip where there will be more than one chaperone? No. Besides on overnight trips male chaperones deal with the boys and female chaperones deal with the girls. At least that is how it was when I was in school.

And again, in this particular situation the parents said their teen-age daughter wasn't going to go because they couldn't afford it. If the teacher and/or school didn't know that there may be some other issues here, such as controlling or paranoid parents, then they might have thought that the parents would gladly accept help with the finances if that meant their daughter wouldn't miss out on something that most of her peers were going to participate in.

What I was getting at, at the end of my last reply is, if the offer was legit and the parents would still not let her go they were going to lie about why instead of being honest about their fears or whatever their issues are. What kind of parent teaches their kid to lie in order to protect themselves to not look over-protective parents? How would that be fair.

If it was not a legit offer but the principal assured them that all would be okay, in other words covering up for the teacher, and they still declined the offer by making excuses/lies, how does that do anyone any good? If the teacher was up to something nefarious I would demand the school take some sort of action such as putting him on probation and keeping a close watch on him.

My beef with all of this is that they brought it to a public forum before checking in with the school. Do you all notice he/she hasn't been back to say what the outcome was? Interesting.

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#1253870 --- 02/12/11 01:58 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Animal Lover]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
If the teacher and/or school didn't know that there may be some other issues here, such as controlling or paranoid parents, then they might have thought that the parents would gladly accept help with the finances if that meant their daughter wouldn't miss out on something that most of her peers were going to participate in.


Maybe the parents weren't paranoid; maybe they had what they felt were pretty good reasons to think something wasn't right, and just didn't want their suspicions to become public, where they might have had to defend them in court, with little or no legally sustaining proof to back them up. If that were the situation, and in some unknown number of cases it is, then I wouldn't blame the parents at all for using a cover fiction. And maybe they didn't want to bring down any retribution on the kid's head.

It doesn't matter what the teacher or school guessed; they should have dealt with the people who pay them, and who are responsible for the child's welfare, and not with the child. It is not the teacher's or school's place to try to second-guess the parents, or to try to lead the child into doing something that the 'rents don't want her to do, for whatever reason the parents may have. The school's job is to prepare the child, academically, for life, and not to coax her into battling with her parents about whether she should go on some trip.

You keep using "controlling" as a pejorative, but the parents are supposed to control the child, and to watch out for her best interests, with as little interference as possible, short of abuse or neglect; the relationship is not between legal equals.

The groping teacher I knew of was back in the mid 60's, and the girls were disgusted and angry. The ones I talked to I knew well, including my sister, and I figured they weren't faking the anger. It was an optional "non-academic" school activity, so they weren't playing him for grades. All of the girls had fully functional boyfriends, too, so they weren't "testing their female powers of attraction" either, IMO.

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#1253875 --- 02/12/11 02:15 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
We had one of "those" teachers in our high school too. He dated several high school girls when he was in his 40's and actually ended up marrying one of them.
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#1253877 --- 02/12/11 02:30 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: twocats]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
LOL, as an aging man, part of me says, "Wow...you go, guy!", but if I were the parent, I'd be reaching for a baseball bat.

In one sense, it should be legal for 2 adults to act as they please, even if one is 18 and the other 45. In another, a teacher is in a superior position of social power, and there are now laws that discourage that type of relationship, even if there is no complaint by a participant. I think he might be on thin legal ice today, if the 'rents wanted to push the matter. Maybe not, though.

Then again, in some situations, even buckets of ice water will have insufficient effect, and the parents might cave to a fait accompli...
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#1253881 --- 02/12/11 03:04 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
...oh the young girls in question were far from 18. I think he had a particular fondness for 15/16 year old girls. By the time most of the girls were seniors, they saw him for the repulsive predator he was. And, I'm sad to say, we watched, and said nothing each year as he preyed upon a new class of young'ns.
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#1253954 --- 02/12/11 07:35 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: twocats]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Don't be too sad; you were just kids. It was the adults who really should have done something, and who should be ashamed that they didn't do anything; it had to have been known to some of them. Huge high school?
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#1254012 --- 02/13/11 07:05 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
s2hphoto.com Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 3303
Loc: NYS
We didn't have any *pervy* male teachers in my High School, but we did have a female gym teacher that liked to hand out towels to the girls when they were done showering after gym class LOL I was envious of the fact her mustache was nicer than mine!
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#1254049 --- 02/13/11 09:16 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
No, and EVERYONE knew.
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#1305880 --- 11/02/11 12:01 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: twocats]
krystina Offline
Member

Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 79
Loc: new york
Well I think the teacher should have talk to the principal first and he or she presented this idea to you. No need to get the kids hopes up. Maybe talk with your school about a payment plan.

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