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#1252346 --- 02/05/11 02:02 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
S.P. King 2nd Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 281
Loc: PARTYING!
Originally Posted By: Let's be frank
Let's say there is a school trip (overnight with chaperones) - and that it costs, but let's say we can't afford it. Hypothetically let's say we have a daughter of teen age. Hypothetically let's say one of her male teachers called her aside from all others and said "I know your parents can't pay for this trip but there are still 1-2 spaces" and you could go for free because it would be great if really "cool" (that's what she said HE said) kids like you could go.

My gut feeling is that my antenae as a parent went UP! If it had been a female teacher, I think my wife and I would've thought "OK"....am I wrong to be suspicious?

Would appreciate your input. Meanwhile - have thought to give an excuse why she can't go; don't want to make a big issue bue also as a Dad don't think everything is "kosher".

Your opinions, please,
Let's be Frank


My gut feeling is that you are an IDIOT!!!!! Why do you have to make it anymore than it is, a teacher helping out a student who's parents cannot afford to send her on this trip. A teacher see's this, wants her to have this experience and be with her friends instead of missing out on the opportunity. Instead of making her feel awkward about the school footing the bill or being considered an exception the teacher tried to be "cool" about the situation.

Why does it have to anything more than a teaching helping out a student???? It must be really hard tryig to be a male teacher who actually cares about his students and wants to help with idiots like you and your wife running around assuming he is a pedophile after teenage girls, making threads about it on a well known community forum.

People like you are probably what turns a teacher like this who cares about students, wanting to help into some too afraid to want to care or help!!!!!

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#1252352 --- 02/05/11 02:20 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: S.P. King 2nd]
jojotaxpayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 2500
Loc: Ontario County
I think that's the first time I may have to agree with you Queenie.

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#1252361 --- 02/05/11 02:53 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
Della Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 16305
Loc: Seneca Falls
I'm almost at a loss how to phrase this. Clearly you are used to this kind of thing through certain channels. I give your child kudos for coming to you with this. I do strongly believe it's wrong to come on here BEFORE you spoke to the school about it. None of us know the situation. I am a single mom and no one has ever paid for my kids period. I would take it to the school not a forum.
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#1252381 --- 02/05/11 04:38 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Della]
sassyone Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 11439
Loc: Seneca Falls,NY,
Why should he have to feel embarrassed? Its not like he used the name of the school, even where the trip is going. It could be any school he is talking about in a 4-5 county area.

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#1252382 --- 02/05/11 04:47 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Della]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
I do strongly believe it's wrong to come on here BEFORE you spoke to the school about it. None of us know the situation.
I would take it to the school not a forum.


I agree on both points, and also think the teacher should have taken it to the parents, and not to the child.

Quote:
I am a single mom and no one has ever paid for my kids period.


You touch upon another reservation I have. There may have been times you gave up something else in order to pay for something similar to this trip, while other parents made the other choice, or times when you just decided you couldn't afford it, period, and you didn't expect the taxpayers to ante up the fee for you.

I don't think that a trip is necessarily part of a good public education; in fact, it's probably not, and I don't think that forcing taxpayers to pay for a trip, just so the kid doesn't feel poor, or "excluded" is moral. We're not talking education, food, clothing or heat here.

I'm sure the kid might also feel poor and excluded if the parents can't afford a house or car as nice as her friends' parents', or for a trip to Aruba, FI, but that also doesn't mean her friends' parents should be forced to pay for those things. To me, the logic is the same.

No material thing is free, and the school doesn't pay for anything. Rather, it forces people to pay, and it forces some people to pay more than other people.

You can make the case that this is necessary, even if not fair, for pressing social needs such as education, but I don't think pleasure trips meet even that standard.

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#1252383 --- 02/05/11 04:50 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: sassyone]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
Why should he have to feel embarrassed?


Who said he has to feel embarrassed? What would make him feel embarrassed?
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1252485 --- 02/06/11 02:07 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
s2hphoto.com Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 3303
Loc: NYS
I know last year my daughter's drama club trip to NYC 2 extra kids were allowed to go for free due to a last minute cancellation and extra funds that were received. My wife was also allowed to go as a chaperon for free.

While I am usually suspicious of peoples intent. I think it might be an offer of good will as well as guaranteeing they will have at least one bright, upstanding, well behaved child on the trip that they wouldn't have to worry about, and a potential role model.
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#1252670 --- 02/06/11 04:41 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: s2hphoto.com]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
at least one bright, upstanding, well behaved child on the trip


She may be that, but I have no way of knowing that. I also have no way of knowing that the other kids are trash, and need a role model. What makes you think they are?
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1252810 --- 02/07/11 10:53 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
s2hphoto.com Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 3303
Loc: NYS
I never said they were..... But taking an entire group on a field trip you know you are going to have some that don't behave, and if teachers like her and she's well behaved I am sure they would much have her go then some of the others who have signed up and can afford it.
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Spiritual people inspire me.
Religious people FRIGHTEN me!

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#1252921 --- 02/07/11 07:47 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: s2hphoto.com]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
You don't know why the teacher "likes" her and you don't know anything about her or about any of the others who are going. For all you know, this girl might not behave well, and for all you know, the teacher's motive is suspect.

I'm not saying Lbf's daughter will behave badly, and I don't know her. I'm just saying it's a theoretical possibility which, not knowing her, I can't discount. Since I don't know any of the kids, I'll assume she's pretty much like the average kid in the group.

My antennae go up because the teacher dealt with the child, and not with the parent, when it's the parent's decision to make. Why? Also, Lbf heard his daughter, and saw her body language, and he shouldn't discount the uneasy feelings that I think he has. If she does go, he should make sure that that particular teacher is not his daughter's chaperone.

Everything's always just fine, until something happens.
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1252958 --- 02/08/11 04:54 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
s2hphoto.com Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 3303
Loc: NYS
I am just speaking from experience. A few years ago when my daughter was in the G.R.E.A.T. summer program she was in the 13-15 age group. The 16-18 group was having a field trip to the Bills training camp. There was a extra spot on the bus and because she was so well behaved and liked by ALL the counselors she was asked if she would like to go by a MALE counselor (both male and female counselors went). She went, had a great time, and nothing *hinky* happened.

With it being said she is an honor student I am *assuming* she is well behaved because I don't know too many kids that are honor students and well liked by teachers that are wild and cause trouble.

I assumed this just like you assumed I said all the other kids were *trash* \:\/

It could be an honest mistake by the teacher or why even bother going through the hassle of asking the principal, heads of the trip, or the parents before even knowing if the child even wants to go. Wouldn't the first step be to ask the child?

With that being said and assuming the child wants to go, I do think a call to the school or principal to make sure things are legit is in order considering it is an overnight. Which I would do anyways regardless WHO asked her or with ANY trip with or without being asked by a teacher.
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Religious people FRIGHTEN me!

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#1253017 --- 02/08/11 12:07 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Let's be frank]
sassyone Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 11439
Loc: Seneca Falls,NY,
Originally Posted By: Let's be frank
And if you feel the hypothetical teen has been embarrassed, then I would appreciate a moderator deleting the post.


VM, What I meant was the hypothetical teen shouldn't feel embarrassed by posting this on a forum. Who would know WHAT hypothetical teen he was talking about? Maybe I should have said "hypothetical teen" instead of "he".

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#1253030 --- 02/08/11 01:28 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: s2hphoto.com]
angelaboveme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 1219
Loc: NY
I disagree that the first step is to ask the child. There may be other factors at play in the decision of if the child goes or not and that is up to the parents. To ask the child first, runs the possibility of causing a disagreement at home if the kid wants to go, and now it's paid for, making the parent the bad guy.
That the child appeared uncomfortable relaying this, I think it's worth looking into. If indeed it was innocent, then at least in the future this teacher won't place themselves in that situation again. If it wasn't innocent, maybe there have been other concerns regarding this teacher, it is worth bringing to the attention of the principal. If no one ever speaks up or just assumes the best, who knows what could go on. Certainly situations like this have made headlines before.
From your experience it sounds like you had the benefit of your wife accompanying your daughter on that trip. I'm sure that had a lot to do with your comfort level of your child's supervision on that trip. I think this situation is odd, either from ill intentions or inexperience on the part of the teacher, and if it were my kid, I'd look into it.
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#1253106 --- 02/08/11 05:38 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: sassyone]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Originally Posted By: sassyone
Originally Posted By: Let's be frank
And if you feel the hypothetical teen has been embarrassed, then I would appreciate a moderator deleting the post.


VM, What I meant was the hypothetical teen shouldn't feel embarrassed by posting this on a forum. Who would know WHAT hypothetical teen he was talking about? Maybe I should have said "hypothetical teen" instead of "he".


VM didn't make that statement; Lbf did.
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If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1253107 --- 02/08/11 05:43 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: s2hphoto.com]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
why even bother going through the hassle of asking the principal, heads of the trip, or the parents before even knowing if the child even wants to go. Wouldn't the first step be to ask the child?


I think the 1st step should be to find out if the parents want the child to go. It's not the child's decision, or the teacher's or the principal's to make, so it's proper to first check with the ones who are to decide.
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1253168 --- 02/09/11 04:18 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: angelaboveme]
s2hphoto.com Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 3303
Loc: NYS
Quote:
To ask the child first, runs the possibility of causing a disagreement at home if the kid wants to go, and now it's paid for, making the parent the bad guy.


When it comes to my childs health, well being, or safety I have NO problem being "the bad guy". ;\)

As far as the NYC trip, we had already gone to the info meeting, signed the consent, and paid for the trip for Lindsay to go. My wife going as chaperon was a last minute bonus.

The Bills Training Camp however was the event she was asked to go to, but of course we called the program and got all the details and made sure it was *legit* before we signed the permission slip. That trip Holly or I did not go on
_________________________
Spiritual people inspire me.
Religious people FRIGHTEN me!

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#1253185 --- 02/09/11 05:43 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: s2hphoto.com]
angelaboveme Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 1219
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: s2hphoto.com
Quote:
To ask the child first, runs the possibility of causing a disagreement at home if the kid wants to go, and now it's paid for, making the parent the bad guy.


When it comes to my childs health, well being, or safety I have NO problem being "the bad guy". ;\)

As far as the NYC trip, we had already gone to the info meeting, signed the consent, and paid for the trip for Lindsay to go. My wife going as chaperon was a last minute bonus.

The Bills Training Camp however was the event she was asked to go to, but of course we called the program and got all the details and made sure it was *legit* before we signed the permission slip. That trip Holly or I did not go on


Me either sweetie , but some folks do and the teacher had no right to ask the child first possibly causing unnecessary disagreements at home. Th teacher should be acting like the teacher, not as the child's parent, and should have enough sense and knowledge to check with a kid's legal guardian before offering trips.
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#1253274 --- 02/09/11 12:56 PM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: angelaboveme]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Quote:
Th teacher should be acting like the teacher, not as the child's parent, and should have enough sense and knowledge to check with a kid's legal guardian before offering trips.


Exactly.
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1253412 --- 02/10/11 08:13 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: VM Smith]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
While I agree that the teacher (or anyone in charge at a school) should have asked the parents first some of you do realize that children are sometimes treated like prisoners in their home?

I know of a few parents that NEVER allow their children to go on field trips with the excuse that they fear something may happen to them. They claim they love them and are being protective of them when basically these parents are control freaks who enjoy having their children miss out on normal activities. They don't allow their children even at 15,16 to attend sleep overs or anything where they are out of their sight for more than school hours. They obviously have some sort of issues of over-protectiveness and control.

Scottie knows he has a good well-adjusted kid that he can trust, and IMO from what I've read him post, he is a good parent. If you haven't raised your children right then maybe you shouldn't allow them to go on field trips. If you can't trust them then that's a problem between you and your kids. Don't make it about the school.

This girl is old enough to know better than to get involved with a teacher and should be able to tell if something is not right with the way he is acting around her.

My point about embarrassing the teen-age girl is that it would not be that difficult for the teacher or the principal that was called to see this. The teacher may tell colleagues and if it trickles down (teachers do have kids in school)and sadly are just people too...they may gossip. It could possibly turn into Susie's parents think Mr. so and so is a perv. NICE!

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#1253413 --- 02/10/11 08:16 AM Re: Hairs standing up on my neck need input..... [Re: Animal Lover]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
Quote:
The teacher should be acting like the teacher, not as the child's parent, and should have enough sense and knowledge to check with a kid's legal guardian before offering trips.


When field trips are announced at school they do not call each and every parent beforehand and ask if it is okay to offer their child a field trip. The kids take the information home along with a permission slip.

If the child knows their parents either can't afford it or are control freaks that won't allow them to go then they are still put in a position of feeling left out. A second offer was made here and for practical purposes it should have been made to the parents first but it's not as if it was offered to a small child. It's not like Susie's mom asked Jenny if she could spend the night before she asked Jenny's parents. The parents were already told about the field trip and supposedly declined because they couldn't afford it, not because they really didn't want her to go. At least that is what the story is now.

I would ask those that said maybe there would be other reasons why the parents wouldn't want their child to go...what would those reasons be?


Edited by Animal Lover (02/10/11 08:18 AM)

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