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#1239393 --- 12/12/10 10:26 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: dwarren

In its legal arguments, the Seneca Nation "expressly acknowledges that, as a general principle, New York State has the authority to require reservation retailers to collect excise taxes on sales to non-Indians," Arcara wrote.



On Oct. 12, 2010, the Supreme Court agreed to review the Oneida case.

Question presented: Whether tribal sovereign immunity from suit bars taxing authorities from foreclosing to collect lawfully imposed property taxes; and (2) whether the ancient Oneida reservation in New York was disestablished or diminished.



the SCOTUS ruled that taxes are owed by the tribe = foreclosure

the oneida reservation has been diminished
the cayuga reservation has been disestablished

...ponder


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#1239836 --- 12/14/10 08:28 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: s2hphoto.com]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: s2hphoto.com
"The high court has ruled on Oneida Indian land cases three times, most recently in 2005 when it ruled that nation land was not sovereign and thus subject to taxes." They can *rule* all they want but it's been 5 years and NOTHING has been done


because the tribes use the illegal cig money you pay them to fight every ruling over and over and over again
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#1240083 --- 12/15/10 09:02 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
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Loc: USA
tribes to meet with obama again

what will they 'ask' for this time
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#1242453 --- 12/28/10 09:22 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
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Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Cayuga Indian Nation land trust dispute
Updated: 06/12/2009 06:04 AM
By: Bill Carey

AUBURN, N.Y. -- The message from a host of Cayuga County officials was a simple one. If the federal Bureau of Indian Affairs agrees to allow the Cayuga Indians to place land into federal trust, tax losses for local schools and governments will be substantial and local businesses competing with Indian enterprises will be hurt.

“This is any business. Towing businesses. This is garages. Anything that can operate tax free on land in trust land can certainly affect the businesses here,” said Cayuga County legislator David Axton.

And the officials say they have numbers to back up their claims. Just last year, Cayuga and Seneca County authorities shut down cigarette sales by two service stations operated by the Cayuga Nation, claiming they were evading tax laws. The county has surveyed other convenience stores in the area and says most have seen increases in cigarette sales of 20 to 40 percent since that shutdown. They estimate they may have been losing millions in tax revenues prior to the action.

Cayuga and Seneca counties were the first to take action to disrupt cigarette sales by an Indian nation. They were hoping the message would be clear in Albany.

Governor Paterson has already signed legislation calling for collection of taxes on Indian cigarette sales and, in Cayuga County, they say a state facing billions in red ink should look at the potential windfall.

Cayuga Indian Nation land trust dispute
The long running dispute over land claims by the Cayuga Indians and the insistence of Cayuga and Seneca counties on their rights to tax revenues is about to heat up again. At issue, the Cayugas move to have the federal government allow 130 acres of land to be put into federal trust, exempting it from local taxes. Our Bill Carey says the campaign to block the move is underway.

“You're talking $30 million from two little convenience stores . You multiply that, times the Smoking Joes, 110 of those, the Sav-Ons in Oneida, the Long Island, all the millions of cigarettes they're selling down there, it's about a billion dollars in taxes a year that the state's missing out on ,” said Cayuga County District Attorney Jon Budelmann.

Some counties have opened negotiations with various Indian groups hoping to settle land claims and tax issues. Cayuga County hasn't taken that route.

“We have no discussions going on in the legislature about any kind of settlement,” said Cayuga County Legislature Chairman Peter Tortorici.

The case against sovereignty and against placement of land into trust, they say, is clear.

The hearing by the Bureau of Indian Affairs is due on June 17th in Seneca Falls.


raid them on the illegal gas sales
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#1243722 --- 01/03/11 08:06 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
By David B. Vickers, president
Upstate Citizens for Equality

To The Editor:

Things may be looking up for local property owners and business owners if the Supreme Court of the United States agrees to hear Madison and Oneida counties’ complaint about continued Oneida Indian Nation tax evasion. In a document filed with the U.S. Supreme Court and dated July 9, 2010, the counties are asking the Supreme Court to do two things:

1.) Decide that tribally owned land that is not held in trust can be both taxed and foreclosed upon, and

2.) Declare that the Oneida’s “ancient reservation” has been disestablished.

In a strongly worded petition, the counties have argued that Judge Hurd and the Second Circuit have taken wrong turns when interpreting the Sherrill decision and its aftermath. The result, according to the counties, is an absurd and untenable situation in which previous decisions have been ignored or misunderstood.

According to the counties, if Hurd’s interpretation of the current situation is accurate (and it is not), then the Oneidas could purchase the Empire State Building on the open market and turn around and deprive the City of New York of all real property taxes in perpetuity. Clearly, Judge Hurd’s error needs to be corrected and the counties have made a very strong argument for the Supreme Court to hear the case.

At this point, property and small business owners have to hope that Anthony Picente won’t jump in and make a bad situation all the worse by attempting to “further negotiate” until the Supreme Court decides to hear the case. Any possible negotiations while the case is still pending is not only unwise, but blatantly foolish. We know that this has not stopped Picente in the past.

Also, it would appear that the UCE may have a new supporter in this struggle. In an e-mail that came directly from Rick Bargabos, the candidate for the 111th Assembly District, he stated that the counties’ legal action had his full knowledge and support. It would indeed be good news if candidate Bargabos agreed that the Oneida Indian tribe has no “ancient reservation” in New York apart from the 32 acres off of Route 46 in Oneida city.

SCOTUS has accepted the case
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#1243744 --- 01/03/11 11:52 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
s2hphoto.com Offline
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Registered: 05/04/10
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Quote:
In a strongly worded petition, the counties have argued that Judge Hurd and the Second Circuit have taken wrong turns when interpreting the Sherrill decision and its aftermath. The result, according to the counties, is an absurd and untenable situation in which previous decisions have been ignored or misunderstood.



Thank you for finally acknowledging, and post this article that PROVES you "beloved" Sherrill ruiling is JUNK and not worth the paper it's written on! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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#1243800 --- 01/03/11 05:44 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: s2hphoto.com]
VM Smith Offline
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Registered: 11/28/05
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Quote:
Sherrill ruiling is JUNK and not worth the paper it's written on!


That's for SCOTUS to decide.
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#1243892 --- 01/04/11 08:34 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: s2hphoto.com]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: s2hphoto.com
Quote:
In a strongly worded petition, the counties have argued that Judge Hurd and the Second Circuit have taken wrong turns when interpreting the Sherrill decision and its aftermath. The result, according to the counties, is an absurd and untenable situation in which previous decisions have been ignored or misunderstood.



Thank you for finally acknowledging, and post this article that PROVES you "beloved" Sherrill ruiling is JUNK and not worth the paper it's written on! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


can you read?


...According to the counties, if Hurd’s interpretation of the current situation is accurate (and it is not), then the Oneidas could purchase the Empire State Building on the open market and turn around and deprive the City of New York of all real property taxes in perpetuity...


why would halftown not buy land in NYC as there is more people to sell to?

must be why halftown ran for trust right after the ruling...
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#1243893 --- 01/04/11 08:35 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: VM Smith]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Quote:
Sherrill ruiling is JUNK and not worth the paper it's written on!


That's for SCOTUS to decide.


common sense would say a tribe cannot by land and call it sovereign land
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#1244374 --- 01/06/11 12:29 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: s2hphoto.com]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
By Scott E. Peterman, Vice President
Upstate Citizens for Equality


Cigarette customers, not tribe, taxed

To The Editor:

In announcing the movement of the Oneida Indian Nation’s cigarette plant to its bingo hall on Route 46, the OIN has finally acknowledged the fact that treaties and quasi-sovereign status of the tribe do not prevent the state from the valid collection of sales tax on purchases made by non-member customers of tribally owned businesses whether those businesses are located on or off a reservation.

In a press conference, Chief Operating Officer Peter Carmen stated that the plant was being moved to the “Oneida homeland” because of the state’s plan to implement a sales tax collection plan on Sept. 1 and that the plan could be circumvented because of a federal law that supposedly preempts state efforts to tax products manufactured and sold on an Indian reservation. I know of no such law that would apply to cigarette sales, and I challenge Mr. Carmen to cite the law in this newspaper.

The U.S. Supreme Court rulings regarding this issue are clear; the reason states may enforce the valid collection of those taxes is that such collection does not “frustrate tribal self-government or runs afoul of any congressional enactment dealing with the affairs of reservation Indians,” and that principles of federal Indian law do not authorize Indian tribes to “market an exemption from state taxation to persons who would normally do their business elsewhere.” It doesn’t mention or matter where the cigarettes come from, the OIN will still be in violation because it will still be “marketing a tax exemption.”

Carmen stated that this issue is not about cigarettes, but is about “one government attempting to impose taxes on another government.” That is pure nonsense. The state is clearly taxing non-member customers and not the tribe.

This entire situation stands as simply one more example of the greed and dishonesty of the OIN. It continuously exploits its own culture for monetary gain as it maneuvers to take advantage of its neighbors at every opportunity. It seeks all the benefits of our society while denying any reasonable responsibility to that society.
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#1244585 --- 01/07/11 08:11 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
ALBANY -- Some leaders of New York's Indian nations are concerned about a lack of outreach by the new Cuomo administration.

Seneca Nation President Robert Odawi Porter told the Buffalo News that he hopes to see an interest in dialog at a time of strained relations between the state and Native Americans. Porter was at the Capitol to attend Gov. Andrew Cuomo's State of the State address Wednesday, at the invitation of legislators.

J.C. Seneca, co-chairman of the Seneca Tribal Council, also attended the speech. He said he's concerned that Cuomo hasn't reached out to the Seneca Nation.

Porter noted that Gov. Mario Cuomo, the governor's father, invited Indian leaders to his first inaugural in 1983. So did former Gov. Eliot Spitzer.

Native Americans are in engaged in a dispute with the state over former Gov. David Paterson's bid to end tax-free cigarette sales by Indian retailers. Cuomo has backed the collection effort.


remember the tribes are above NYS law....lol
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#1245825 --- 01/11/11 08:54 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Native Americans are in engaged in a dispute with the state over former Gov. David Paterson's bid to end tax-free cigarette sales by Indian retailers. Cuomo has backed the collection effort.



time will tell
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#1245865 --- 01/11/11 11:56 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: VM Smith]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Supreme court dismisses Oneida case; Cayugas' case continues

In a case being closely followed in Cayuga and Seneca counties, the U.S. Supreme Court has vacated a judgment prohibiting Oneida and Madison counties from foreclosing on Oneida Indian Nation-owned land and sent the case back to a lower court for reconsideration.

The U.S. Supreme Court issued a decision Monday stating that the court will not hear the case as scheduled on Feb. 23 and that is has vacated a lower court's ruling because the Oneida Nation waived its rights to sovereign immunity from tax foreclosure.

The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals previously ruled that counties cannot foreclose on tribal lands because tribes have sovereign immunity.

The U.S. Supreme Court also ordered the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to reconsider its previous decision in light of the nation's waiver.

Officials in Seneca and Cayuga counties were looking to the Oneida Nation's case for guidance in a similar foreclosure action by each county against the Cayuga Indian Nation of New York.

"The Supreme Court sent (the case) back and I believe it essentially overturns that decision," said Seneca County Attorney Frank Fisher. "It vacates the judgment and returns it to the lower court to reconsider."

The Oneida Nation case involved about 17,000 acres -- most of which the federal government has agreed to place into a tax-exempt trust.

Fisher said it's too early to tell how the U.S. Supreme Court's decision will impact the Cayuga Nation's foreclosure proceedings.

The U.S. District Court for Western District of New York is currently scheduled to hear arguments Thursday on whether or not Seneca County should be allowed to proceed with its foreclosure process. A similar hearing may be scheduled in the Cayuga County foreclosures.

Cayuga County claims the tribe owes nearly $124,000 in property taxes while Seneca County claims the tribe owes $5,500. Both claims are from 2008 and do not include 2009 and 2010.

Thursday's district court hearing may be adjourned to give both sides a chance to research the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in Oneida Nation case.

Lee Alcott, an attorney representing the Cayuga Nation, said a key difference between the Oneida Nation case and the Cayugas' is that the Cayuga Nation is not waiving its sovereign immunity.

Alcott added it is unclear what impact the U.S. Supreme Court's decision might have on the Cayugas' foreclosure process.

The district court can still use the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals' original decision when hearing the Cayugas' case, Alcott said.

The Cayugas claim their sovereign immunity gives them immunity from foreclosure even though they are required to pay property taxes.

David Schraver, an attorney representing Oneida and Madison counties, said he could only speculate on why the Oneida Nation waived its sovereignty.

With the case headed back to the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, the court can re-examine the Oneida Nation's reservation status, whether foreclosure violates the Indian Trade and Intercourse Act and whether the tribe's due process was violated, Schraver said.

Attorneys representing the Oneida Nation did not return phone calls seeking a comment.


oneida tribe backtracking?

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#1246355 --- 01/13/11 08:02 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
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Impact of Oneidas case stretches beyond region
Other tribes, states monitoring issue as it moves back to lower court

State governments and Indian tribes across the country were watching this week when the U.S. Supreme Court tossed a case about foreclosure on Oneida Indian Nation land back down to a lower court.

Over the past six years, as the case wended its way through the court system, Indian tribes feared if the Oneidas lost, it could diminish all their standings under the law.

And governments of at least 12 states that have tribes within their borders worried that if the Oneidas won, Indian nations could evade property tax collection.

Now that the Supreme Court has booted the case back to the 2nd U.S. District Court of Appeals, the states will have to wait for resolution, but Indian tribes have been granted a reprieve, a Washington D.C.-based advocate for Indian tribes said.

“You never know what the Supreme Court is going to do,” said John Dossett, general council for the National Congress of American Indians. “It could have really hurt them.”

The suit was initiated soon after the U.S. Supreme Court’s 2005 ruling that the Nation had to pay property tax on its non-reservation land.

After that decision, Oneida and Madison counties immediately moved to foreclose on the Oneida’s non-reservation land, since property taxes had not been paid on it in years. The Nation refused, and the issue has been under litigation ever since.

At the heart of the case — Madison County and Oneida County vs. Oneida Indian Nation of New York — is the issue of sovereign immunity for Indian tribes.

Among the Oneidas’ arguments was that the Nation was exempt from foreclosure because of its sovereign immunity.

Dossett said if the Supreme Court had ruled against the Oneidas, it could have further chipped away at the standing of tribes as independent governmental entities.

“It’s like a death by a thousand cuts,” Dossett said. “Over long spans of time, the Supreme Court just seems to find against tribes on a regular basis.”

One expert on Indian issues, Robert Batson of Albany Law School, said if the court had ruled against the Oneidas and had expressed its decision in broad terms, it could have caused “quite a change.”

“They would basically be like a corporation, not a government, subject to any suit in court,” he said of the Indian nations.

Other Indian nations contacted by the Observer-Dispatch did not return calls Tuesday.

Pressure?

Asked if the National Congress of American Indians had put pressure on the Oneidas to back away from the immunity argument, Dossett demurred.

“It wasn’t really pressure,” he said. “We talked about it quite a bit. I don’t know that tribes have the tools to put pressure on one another.”

Dossett said that in his view, recent Supreme Court rulings on Indian issues had not been favorable to the tribes.

Pressure or no, the Oneida Nation issued a declaration in late November “irrevocably and perpetually” waiving its immunity from foreclosures by state, local and county governments.

The Oneidas’ attorney, Washington D.C.-based Seth Waxman, said removing the foreclosure issue from the case eliminated the possibility that the court could alter sovereign immunity laws, but that wasn’t the reason for the declaration.

“If the issue of sovereign immunity were litigated, we think we would win,” he said.

But, he added, the case could be argued on other grounds that had not reached the Supreme Court and could now be litigated in lower court.

Broader impact

Several states will be watching to see how the case proceeds.

New York and 11 other states have filed a brief with the courts contending that blocking the counties from foreclosing on the property “imperils real property tax collection throughout the United States because it permits Indian tribes nationwide to escape enforcement of lawfully imposed real property taxes.”

David Schraver, the attorney representing Oneida and Madison counties, said the Supreme Court’s decision not to hear the case would delay resolution of that issue.

“There won’t be a decision in the short term by the Supreme Court,” he said.

Meanwhile, the Nation has been attempting to have its non-reservation property put into federal trust, free of state and local taxation and regulation.

The state and counties are fighting that plan in the courts as well, but they have yet to reach the level of the Supreme Court.

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#1247702 --- 01/18/11 08:01 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone
The Cayugas claim their sovereign immunity gives them immunity from foreclosure even though they are required to pay property taxes.



that is not what the scotus told you regading the sherrill ruling
is that why you applied for trust.....hum
and you still refuse to pay the required property taxes... weave that web
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#1248291 --- 01/20/11 08:14 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: bluezone

The Cayugas claim their sovereign immunity gives them immunity from foreclosure even though they are required to pay property taxes.



if you are required to pay taxes then you might be sovereign too.......lol

seems sales taxes would need to be paid also.... ;\)
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#1248364 --- 01/20/11 02:03 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
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Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Cayuga Nation foreclosure hearing postponed
Story Discussion Cayuga Nation foreclosure hearing postponed
The Citizen staff report AuburnPub.com | Posted: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 3:01 pm | (0) Comments

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Related Documents
Related: U.S. Supreme Court decision
Related: Cayuga Nation court documents
A hearing planned for Thursday regarding the Cayuga Indian Nation of New York's effort to stop foreclosure on some of its land by Seneca County has been adjourned.

Lee Alcott, an attorney representing the tribe, said the hearing was pushed back at the county's request because the county wants time to consider the impact of this week's U.S. Supreme Court decision in a similar case involving the Oneida Nation. In that case, the Supreme Court vacated a lower court ruling when the Oneidas decided to waive their claim to sovereign immunity.

In seeking the adjournment, Seneca County agreed to hold off on moving forward with the foreclosure proceedings until the district court makes a decision.

The Cayuga Nation had asked a federal judge in the U.S. District Court Western District of New York for an injunction and temporary restraining order preventing Seneca County from foreclosing on the tribes' land.

Cayuga County is also taking steps to foreclose on Cayuga Nation property, but that process is not as far along as the one in Seneca County, so the nation has not filed a legal challenge yet.



Seneca County officials have said that the tribe owes nearly $5,500 in property taxes from 2008 while Cayuga County officials said the tribe owes nearly $124,000 in unpaid taxes from 2008. The tribe has maintained its sovereignty exempts it from paying taxes.

Alcott said a new date for hearings in the Seneca County case has not been established.


does the tribe not pay for their employees paycheck adjustments?
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#1248366 --- 01/20/11 02:04 PM baloney [Re: bluezone]
Harleybobb Offline
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Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 4061
Loc: Walloon Freedom Fighter
more Bluezone baloney
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Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*!

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#1248368 --- 01/20/11 02:05 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
do not click on it
there are more threads
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#1249098 --- 01/23/11 02:48 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 32557
Loc: USA
Cuomo Plans To Move Forward With Indian Cigarette Tax Plan

state reservations ...tax all sales
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