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#1240087 --- 12/15/10 03:10 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Zorn]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Someone needs to explain how leaving the tax rates the same as they have been for 10 years is adding to the deficit.

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#1240112 --- 12/15/10 05:34 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: cwjga]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Zorn, you seem to think that if we stop paying for the bloated and inefficient programs of the federal government. Every one of these departments and programs is duplicated at the state level. Why not remove the top level and let the states handle these things? For one, it will reduce national mandates that largely don't apply to many states. Second, it would greatly reduce the red tape.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. - Dr. Lawrence J. Peter

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#1240521 --- 12/17/10 10:32 AM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
It's a great time to be rich

If the tax cuts become law, the next two years will be the best in living memory for many wealthy Americans to shield their income and fortunes

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40701302/ns/business/

A bonanza of new and extended tax benefits could make it as easy as ever for the rich to stay that way.

Under legislation approved by the U.S. Senate on Wednesday, and now moving on to the House, savvy wealthy Americans would be able to capitalize on an environment in which their tax rates on income and investments remain at historic lows. Also, new rules would make it possible to pass on fortunes to heirs with less fuss and lower taxes than all but a brief period of the past 80 years.
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#1240588 --- 12/17/10 06:55 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: kyle585]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Also, new rules would make it possible to pass on fortunes to heirs with less fuss and lower taxes than all but a brief period of the past 80 years.



In the interest of full disclosure, fortunes = less than $5 million dollars.
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#1240632 --- 12/17/10 11:03 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: kyle585]
kimmer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1403
Loc: here,there and back again
They deserve to keep more income, don't you know they are the job creators. LOL! Keep up the good work "creators"!


Edited by kimmer (12/17/10 11:04 PM)
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#1240634 --- 12/17/10 11:14 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: kimmer]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Absolutely! They work harder than the rest of us too!
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Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1240679 --- 12/18/10 11:36 AM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: twocats]
Ranger Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 25141
Loc: GOD's 1/2 acre
Sounds as tho you are a bit jealous, maybe even envious, because someone is better off than you. And because of that, their families deserve somehow to be double taxed to make it more fair for you. The family farmer whose farm has been in the family for generations, and whose wealth is tied up in land, somehow, deserves to have to sell off property to satisfy your idea that they are wealthy. Not everyone has 5 million laying around in cash. Their wealth may be tied up in property, equipment, inventory. They may be businessmen, farmers, shopkeepers any type of family owned businesses. You want them to possibly shut down their operations and lay off people just to satisfy your need to make them pay because of some arbitrary amount of so-called wealth. Is it any wonder the country is in the shape it is in.

The wife and I probably make 50,000+ a year, I'm far from rich maybe even toward being in poverty, but I'm quite satisfied in what we have and how we got it. I live within my means maybe our government should do that too, instead of always looking for more. I also believe those that are "rich" earned their money too. Why should they be taxed at a higher rate just because they have more. And then double taxed because they happen to die and leave an estate. Most rich people are generous for the right causes. Not just drunk on spending and wanting to get re-elected. Trying to be everything for everyone. It has never worked and never will. History repeats itself, if you try to do the same things, the same way.
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#1240696 --- 12/18/10 01:01 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Ranger]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
I laugh at people who make $50,000 a year and somehow compare themselves to people making millions as if they will be making millions someday too. The comments of those of us who criticize the rich as jealous is a joke. Those who defend the rich are the fools. The kid who inherits the family farm and pays inheritance tax should be grateful to his elders for working hard and should have to work hard too. No one needs millions and millions of dollars.

And let's put it this way. If you can live on $50,000 and by some freakin' miracle get rich and become a millionaire, so what if you have to pay 4% more of your income in taxes or a higher estate tax? You would still have more than you could have dreamed. Why be so greedy? When it comes to financial issues, greed is worse than jealousy...hands down. But you keep fooling yourself and telling yourself that you too can be rich and greedy someday too. LOLOLOL.

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#1240699 --- 12/18/10 01:20 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Animal Lover]
Ranger Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 25141
Loc: GOD's 1/2 acre
Then you have yourself a good laugh, cause I never said anything about being rich monetarily, someday. The richness I covet is far greater than any wealth I could ever acquire. And to use derogatory comments about people limit the value of any argument you can make. I thought you liberals were so caring about your fellow man. Seems as though all you care about is how much you can take from him, so you can do for those that will not do for themselves. And then pat yourself on the back for being so high and mighty.
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#1240701 --- 12/18/10 01:35 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Ranger]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: Ranger
Why should they be taxed at a higher rate just because they have more. And then double taxed because they happen to die and leave an estate.




I am by no means jealous, I have a warm home, food in the fridge, money in the bank, and thank the Lord, good health in my loved ones. What more can a person ask for in this life?

BUT,

Why should I be taxed at a higher rate because I make less?
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Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1240704 --- 12/18/10 01:47 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Ranger]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Ranger
Then you have yourself a good laugh, cause I never said anything about being rich monetarily, someday. The richness I covet is far greater than any wealth I could ever acquire. And to use derogatory comments about people limit the value of any argument you can make. I thought you liberals were so caring about your fellow man. Seems as though all you care about is how much you can take from him, so you can do for those that will not do for themselves. And then pat yourself on the back for being so high and mighty.


I care for the downtrodden. I do not care for greedy, hateful, bigoted people who have anything they could possibly need and pretty much everything they want but worry about a slightly higher percentage of money taken in taxes. I do not care for those that worry about their income over worrying about a child's health. I do not care for someone that worked for an insurance company and would turn down treatment for someone who was dieing because they had a preexisting condition or a lapse in insurance due to job loss.

Do I REALLY wish harm on them? No, of course not. But I wish they would wise up, get a clue, get a heart. I wish the same for you.

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#1240705 --- 12/18/10 01:54 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Ranger]
kimmer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1403
Loc: here,there and back again
To compare a farmer whose net worth is tied up in property to a millionaire or billionaire is not fair. A farmer is less likely to have the cash access. If you earn it, you should pay the income tax on it. I find it ridiculous that a millionaire is called a "job creator" and should therefore be given an income tax break AS WELL AS tax breaks to "expand" their business. Somewhere along the line people became brainwashed.
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Why is it so hard for some to properly use your and you're??

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#1240713 --- 12/18/10 02:31 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: kimmer]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
I agree kimmer. It's not socialism when government gives tax breaks or grants to businesses to expand their business but it is socialism to bail out businesses to keep from losing existing jobs.

People would go crazy if government created businesses with tax dollars and put the profits back into the government to pay debt, but see nothing wrong with government giving money to individuals to create supposed jobs, which in most cases, helps make them more wealthy. Meanwhile the government adds to the deficit, which adds to our tax burden for generations to come.

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#1240722 --- 12/18/10 02:51 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Animal Lover]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Animal Lover
I laugh at people who make $50,000 a year and somehow compare themselves to people making millions as if they will be making millions someday too.



Do you laugh at whites that worked to free the slaves as if they would be black someday too? Do you laugh at WWII vets that fought the Nazis as if they would be Jewish someday too? Do you laugh at men that voted to give women the right to vote as if they would be women someday too? What's right is right. It does not change because you aren't part of that particular group.
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#1240724 --- 12/18/10 03:12 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: kimmer]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: kimmer
To compare a farmer whose net worth is tied up in property to a millionaire or billionaire is not fair.



I'm glad to see that you too feel the estate tax is unfair.
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01 - 20 - 2017

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#1240726 --- 12/18/10 03:19 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: sands]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: Animal Lover
I laugh at people who make $50,000 a year and somehow compare themselves to people making millions as if they will be making millions someday too.



Do you laugh at whites that worked to free the slaves as if they would be black someday too? Do you laugh at WWII vets that fought the Nazis as if they would be Jewish someday too? Do you laugh at men that voted to give women the right to vote as if they would be women someday too? What's right is right. It does not change because you aren't part of that particular group.


There is a slight chance that someone could be become rich.
OTOH, there is no chance a white man will turn black or a man can turn into a woman. Again, you make some really silly comparisons. You have a demented way of making a case for your fallacious arguments.

Not everyone is born with a silver spoon in their mouth or have the luck or skills to become rich. There can only be so many athletes, Oprah types, Gates or Kardashians. Maybe I think Ranger falls into the category that many people do. They stick up for the rich and make comments that the rich "earned" everything they get, when they (Ranger) probably works 10 times harder than the majority of those that he is defending.

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#1240728 --- 12/18/10 04:02 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: twocats]
cwjga Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 12660
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: twocats
Originally Posted By: Ranger
Why should they be taxed at a higher rate just because they have more. And then double taxed because they happen to die and leave an estate.




I am by no means jealous, I have a warm home, food in the fridge, money in the bank, and thank the Lord, good health in my loved ones. What more can a person ask for in this life?

BUT,

Why should I be taxed at a higher rate because I make less?


Your right you should not be. nice to see you might finally be comming around.

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#1240763 --- 12/18/10 06:13 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Animal Lover]
Ranger Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 25141
Loc: GOD's 1/2 acre
Originally Posted By: Animal Lover
Maybe I think Ranger falls into the category that many people do. They stick up for the rich and make comments that the rich "earned" everything they get, when they (Ranger) probably works 10 times harder than the majority of those that he is defending.


Your right, probably physically I work 10 times harder than most anyone. That's the lot I chose for myself. I could have finished college and became the CPA I thought I wanted to be. Luckily I knew early on that wasn't for me, I wouldn't have been happy in a suit and tie closed up in an office doing the same thing every day. I'm sure I would have probably earned a rather tidy income. But for me I'm very happy the way my life is going. No I'm not "rich". But I don't think that because someone is rich the government should "take" more from them. Do I think that those that are rich should help out where they can, sure. That should be their choice though. The way government does it, it seems more like taking advantage of one class of people to benefit another. Where does the Constitution ask for that? All men are created equal ;\) I was a caretaker for a "rich" lady for a few years. I saw first hand what she did in this area to help those less fortunate than her. She didn't want it known who was doing these things. She did it from the heart. She didn't need the government demanding their pound of flesh because she was well off. She did it because, if she did it herself, her money was put where she wanted it to go, and used wisely. Not just thrown at this program and that program, with no oversight. That may be a good reason why certain people are rich. They know how to handle money.
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#1240766 --- 12/18/10 06:23 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: cwjga]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: cwjga
Originally Posted By: twocats
Originally Posted By: Ranger
Why should they be taxed at a higher rate just because they have more. And then double taxed because they happen to die and leave an estate.




I am by no means jealous, I have a warm home, food in the fridge, money in the bank, and thank the Lord, good health in my loved ones. What more can a person ask for in this life?

BUT,

Why should I be taxed at a higher rate because I make less?


Your right you should not be. nice to see you might finally be comming around.

So you agree that a first priority should be to reduce the tax rate for the middle class? Wow, color me surprised.
_________________________
Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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#1240768 --- 12/18/10 06:39 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Ranger]
Animal Lover Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 1339
Loc: NY
Quote:
That may be a good reason why certain people are rich. They know how to handle money.


Ranger, I know how to handle money and live on a budget with very little debt. I'm sure you do too. I thought I read before where you mentioned you do construction work. While I agree that some people do well because they know how to handle money I also go along with the idea that rich people get richer for a reason and it's not always good. I've been stiffed by rich people and only got paid when I refused to give them what they wanted the next time they called on me. I know kids who have babysat for well to do people who had to beg for their money weeks after the fact. There are rich people who get rich because they take advantage of the those they think are beneath them or get special treatment (such as grants) because of who they are. They are not taking that money out of the goodness of their heart.

You worked for a special person but as in any group of people there are good and bad.

I agree, most of us choose our lot in life but don't you agree that not all people have the capabilities to do certain types of work? Not everyone is smart enough to be a CPA or do construction...to build things. A few percentage more out of people's income would not be the demise of the upper class. For the life of me I don't get how people can care so much about money, other people's money...even the wealthy themselves...why care so much about possessions? It doesn't compute. Bottom line, I will never agree that those that care about this issue does not have a greedy side to them. And in my world greed is one of the worst human traits.


Edited by Animal Lover (12/18/10 06:42 PM)

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