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#1239054 --- 12/10/10 08:30 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: citydog]
Here's Johnny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 854
Loc: New York
Good point, and I am merely repeating what she said. Must be she exaggerated. Thanks for the reality check! I certainly try to keep it real on here, believe it or not.

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#1239063 --- 12/10/10 09:07 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: sands]
Zorn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 1376
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: sands
Originally Posted By: Zorn
I hope to convince the govt to take from some neighbors and give to others.



"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." --Thomas Jefferson


You must be right, what does Thomas Jefferson know about freedom?


True, coming from someone who owned slaves... I'm sure he really knows how Freedom works.

Again, the original Constitution did not allow non-land owners to vote. How's that for 'freedom'? Rich people always talk about how evil it is to take from one person and give to another, and then people LIKE JEFFERSON set up governments that only allow people who own land to vote. Blacks, servants, women... no votes for you!

Please, PLEASE tell me again how we should follow their ideas without question!
_________________________
"I guess I want smaller government and my Social Security". - Tea Party Member

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#1239064 --- 12/10/10 09:11 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Zorn]
Zorn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 1376
Loc: ny
Also, FA Hayek, Milton Friedman (famous liberarian, nobel prize winning economists) among others espouse a basic income grant or minimum wage (not our own minimum wage, a much higher one).

So I will see your slave owner and raise you two famous libertarian nobel prize winning economists, who also championed liberty and freedom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_guarantee
_________________________
"I guess I want smaller government and my Social Security". - Tea Party Member

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#1239078 --- 12/10/10 10:17 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: kyle585]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Happy days are here again!



Most Americans Say They’re Worse Off Under Obama, Poll Shows

By Rich Miller - Dec 9, 2010 12:00 AM ET

Dec. 9 (Bloomberg) -- More than 50 percent of Americans say they are worse off now than they were two years ago when President Barack Obama took office, and two-thirds believe the country is headed in the wrong direction, a Bloomberg National Poll shows.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-09...poll-shows.html
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01 - 20 - 2017

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#1239086 --- 12/10/10 11:43 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: sands]
Zorn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 1376
Loc: ny
Wow, what a revelation. Considering the worst economic crash happened just as he took office, I would say people are definitely worse off.

In 2001, after 9/11, people were worse off than they were when Bush took office (big stock market crash, economy in a slump due to attacks). Does that mean Bush was the reason for the problem?
_________________________
"I guess I want smaller government and my Social Security". - Tea Party Member

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#1239089 --- 12/10/10 11:51 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Zorn]
kimmer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1403
Loc: here,there and back again
Did anyone really believe that just because a new president took office everything wrong would be magically corrected quickly? I don't care who had won the last election, things would have still continued to tank. How do we expect anything to get better when no one can even name the real reason for all the turmoil in the economy?


Edited by kimmer (12/10/10 11:52 PM)
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Why is it so hard for some to properly use your and you're??

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#1239211 --- 12/11/10 06:10 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: kimmer]
alummule Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 622
Loc: yes
Yes Kimmer Just left Manchester McDonalds where the only station played is always Fox . Yes they really believe that just because a new president took office everything wrong should have been magically corrected .

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#1239214 --- 12/11/10 06:16 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: kimmer]
Harleybobb Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 4061
Loc: Walloon Freedom Fighter
Originally Posted By: kimmer
Did anyone really believe that just because a new president took office everything wrong would be magically corrected quickly? I don't care who had won the last election, things would have still continued to tank. How do we expect anything to get better when no one can even name the real reason for all the turmoil in the economy?

You mean too tell me that the Hopey-Changey thing The Antichrist President Barack Hussein Obama II was spewing is a line of crap?
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Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*!

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#1239215 --- 12/11/10 06:24 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: alummule]
Harleybobb Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 4061
Loc: Walloon Freedom Fighter
Originally Posted By: alummule
Yes Kimmer Just left Manchester McDonalds where the only station played is always Fox . Yes they really believe that just because a new president took office everything wrong should have been magically corrected .
Yes sir McDonald's is some gooooooooooood eatin'! Do you super-size your meals?
_________________________
Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*!

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#1239243 --- 12/11/10 10:11 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Harleybobb]
Ranger Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 25141
Loc: GOD's 1/2 acre
When government takes control of all aspects of life, and entitlements become the norm, you have a future view of the USA by looking to Europe. Take a realistic look at what's happening there, and then ask yourself if you want that for us. We need to get out house in order, or we will be another Europe. We still have a chance to prevent what's happening there, from happening here. But we will have to make some hard choices, and soon. This is our moment in history, will we rise to it? Will we take responsibility for our actions, and do the right thing?
_________________________
TRUTH HAS NO AGENDA

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#1239253 --- 12/12/10 12:29 AM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Ranger]
sands Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 8255
Loc: NY
Let's see, what has Obama accomplished in his two years in office? Oh yea...




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01 - 20 - 2017

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#1239267 --- 12/12/10 02:11 AM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Ranger]
Zorn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 1376
Loc: ny
Originally Posted By: Ranger
When government takes control of all aspects of life, and entitlements become the norm, you have a future view of the USA by looking to Europe. Take a realistic look at what's happening there, and then ask yourself if you want that for us. We need to get out house in order, or we will be another Europe. We still have a chance to prevent what's happening there, from happening here. But we will have to make some hard choices, and soon. This is our moment in history, will we rise to it? Will we take responsibility for our actions, and do the right thing?


You mean where everyone gets healthcare, many countries offer free tuition to all citizens and people average 4 times the vacation time that we do? Where husbands get paid paternity leave by law? That Europe?

This is our moment in history? Are you kidding me?

Here is your 'take responsibility' candidate for you:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/11/nyregion/11nassau.html?_r=1

Tea Party candidate wins and... lowers taxes but does not cut spending. Hmm, sounds like every Republican president I can remember. And now Nassau county is in big trouble. It blows my mind that you people still vote Republican, they NEVER cut spending!
_________________________
"I guess I want smaller government and my Social Security". - Tea Party Member

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#1239289 --- 12/12/10 03:59 AM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Zorn]
Harleybobb Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 4061
Loc: Walloon Freedom Fighter
Originally Posted By: Zorn
Originally Posted By: Ranger
When government takes control of all aspects of life, and entitlements become the norm, you have a future view of the USA by looking to Europe. Take a realistic look at what's happening there, and then ask yourself if you want that for us. We need to get out house in order, or we will be another Europe. We still have a chance to prevent what's happening there, from happening here. But we will have to make some hard choices, and soon. This is our moment in history, will we rise to it? Will we take responsibility for our actions, and do the right thing?


You mean where everyone gets healthcare, many countries offer free tuition to all citizens and people average 4 times the vacation time that we do? Where husbands get paid paternity leave by law? That Europe?

This is our moment in history? Are you kidding me?

Here is your 'take responsibility' candidate for you:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/11/nyregion/11nassau.html?_r=1

Tea Party candidate wins and... lowers taxes but does not cut spending. Hmm, sounds like every Republican president I can remember. And now Nassau county is in big trouble. It blows my mind that you people still vote Republican, they NEVER cut spending!

Yep, life is good in Greece...free everything!
And the Republicans, may never cut spending and you'll never stop being a freeloader!
_________________________
Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*!

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#1239325 --- 12/12/10 01:08 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Harleybobb]
Harleybobb Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 4061
Loc: Walloon Freedom Fighter
Originally Posted By: Harleybobb
Originally Posted By: Zorn
Originally Posted By: Ranger
When government takes control of all aspects of life, and entitlements become the norm, you have a future view of the USA by looking to Europe. Take a realistic look at what's happening there, and then ask yourself if you want that for us. We need to get out house in order, or we will be another Europe. We still have a chance to prevent what's happening there, from happening here. But we will have to make some hard choices, and soon. This is our moment in history, will we rise to it? Will we take responsibility for our actions, and do the right thing?


You mean where everyone gets healthcare, many countries offer free tuition to all citizens and people average 4 times the vacation time that we do? Where husbands get paid paternity leave by law? That Europe?

This is our moment in history? Are you kidding me?

Here is your 'take responsibility' candidate for you:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/11/nyregion/11nassau.html?_r=1

Tea Party candidate wins and... lowers taxes but does not cut spending. Hmm, sounds like every Republican president I can remember. And now Nassau county is in big trouble. It blows my mind that you people still vote Republican, they NEVER cut spending!

Yep, life is good in Greece...free everything!
And the Republicans, may never cut spending and you'll never stop being a freeloader!



Zorn the free life is good fact sheet on European tax rates!

Subject: Current European tax rates - America next?


Take a look at these current European tax rates and ask yourself, is America next? Read the text below the table and be scared.

Current European tax rates:

United Kingdom
Income Tax: 50% VAT: 17.5% TOTAL: 67.5%

Germany
Income Tax: 45% VAT: 19% TOTAL: 64%

France
Income Tax: 40% VAT: 19.6% TOTAL: 59.6%

Greece
Income Tax: 40% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 65%

Spain
Income Tax: 45% VAT: 16% TOTAL: 61%

Portugal
Income Tax: 42% VAT: 20% TOTAL: 62%

Sweden
Income Tax: 55% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 80%

Norway
Income Tax: 54.3% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 79.3%

Netherlands
Income Tax: 52% VAT: 19% TOTAL: 71%

Denmark
Income Tax: 58% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 83%

Finland
Income Tax: 53% VAT: 22% TOTAL: 75%


If you've started to wonder what the real costs of "socialism" are going to be, once the full program in these United States hits your wallet, take a look at the table. As you digest these mind-boggling figures, keep in mind that in spite of these astronomical tax rates, these countries are still not financing their social welfare programs exclusively from tax revenues!

They are deeply mired in public debt of gargantuan proportions. Greece has reached the point where its debt is so huge it is in imminent danger of defaulting. That is the reason the European economic community has intervened to bail them out. If you're following the financial news, you know Spain and Portugal are right behind Greece.


PS: If you want the source zorn...tough!
I might kick in 50 bucks for a plane ticket if you want to move to Greece.
_________________________
Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*!

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#1239346 --- 12/12/10 01:40 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Harleybobb]
Zorn Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 1376
Loc: ny
Ahh, HArley attempts to provide evidence and stops trolling for a post! Awesome. Lets look at this.

I see Finland, Sweden and Norway all below the US in their debt as a % of GDP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_public_debt

These are all very 'socialist' countries. I do see France and Germany ahead of the US. Since not all socialist countries are in more debt than the US, could it be that their debt does not relate to their social programs?

Because you pointed it out... they have high taxes. My wife and I have paid over $50,000 in day care costs for two kids, and we aren't done yet.

If we lived in Germany, our cost would be... about $8k. The daycare there is of a higher quality there too, want to know why? Because the govt uses tax money to subsidize it, so the salaries of daycare providers is higher there. Will someone here in the US get a 4 year degree in child care to make $8-9 an hour?

Germany also... has NO ONE without health care, and every family can send their kid to college at no *extra* cost to them. You don't care about this, but do you realize how many kids graduating high school today are looking at starting life with $200K in debt?

The reality is that they pay more in taxes, but no one goes bankrupt over a medical bill, no one sends their kid to work at walmart because they cant afford to borrow for their college tuition. They pay more in taxes but SAVE money because of it. They have less in their paycheck, but SAVE on tuition, child care, health care, etc.

Now think about who benefits from this? if I had to pay more in taxes but got cheap child care, free health care, free tuition... I would be better off. But would bill gates be better off, when he is paying 60% of his income to the govt? This is why all but a few of the super rich fight higher taxes and social programs - they pay a lot more but don't get much in return, even though it means people in the US can't go to the doctor.
_________________________
"I guess I want smaller government and my Social Security". - Tea Party Member

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#1239349 --- 12/12/10 01:49 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Zorn]
Ranger Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 25141
Loc: GOD's 1/2 acre
Originally Posted By: Zorn
Originally Posted By: Ranger
When government takes control of all aspects of life, and entitlements become the norm, you have a future view of the USA by looking to Europe. Take a realistic look at what's happening there, and then ask yourself if you want that for us. We need to get out house in order, or we will be another Europe. We still have a chance to prevent what's happening there, from happening here. But we will have to make some hard choices, and soon. This is our moment in history, will we rise to it? Will we take responsibility for our actions, and do the right thing?


You mean where everyone gets healthcare, many countries offer free tuition to all citizens and people average 4 times the vacation time that we do? Where husbands get paid paternity leave by law? That Europe?

This is our moment in history? Are you kidding me?

Here is your 'take responsibility' candidate for you:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/11/nyregion/11nassau.html?_r=1

Tea Party candidate wins and... lowers taxes but does not cut spending. Hmm, sounds like every Republican president I can remember. And now Nassau county is in big trouble. It blows my mind that you people still vote Republican, they NEVER cut spending!


And the Democrats DO \:o How much has the deficit gone up since Obama has been in office?

When are you going to figure out there really is no difference between the parties, and stop pitting one side against another. There has to be a perpetrator and a victim with you.

We are all "victims" of our government! Our government has so perverted itself, it's hardly recognizable any more. We need to go back to the beginning and start over. We need to get government out of our lives, and govern ourselves. Not some elite class that thinks it knows what's best for us. We should have the ability to take care of our own. We don't need big Brother taking care of us. Our government must be on a more local level to meet the needs of the citizens. Give States back control. The Federal government has just compounded our problems since they have taken control away from the States. They are trying to control everything, instead of doing what they are supposed to do.
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TRUTH HAS NO AGENDA

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#1239352 --- 12/12/10 01:50 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Zorn]
Chosenspot Offline
Member

Registered: 01/05/10
Posts: 137
Loc: Penn Yan, New York
Compare our bloated 700 billion dollar plus military budget to any of these countries or all of them combined. None of our politicans or even folks on this forum talk about cuts in that budget.

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#1239358 --- 12/12/10 02:27 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Chosenspot]
tomwaits Offline
Member

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 360
Loc: BetweenMud&FlintCreek

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#1239364 --- 12/12/10 02:54 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Chosenspot]
Ranger Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 25141
Loc: GOD's 1/2 acre
Originally Posted By: Chosenspot
Compare our bloated 700 billion dollar plus military budget to any of these countries or all of them combined. None of our politicans or even folks on this forum talk about cuts in that budget.


There isn't a budget or a program that shouldn't or couldn't be cut.
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TRUTH HAS NO AGENDA

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#1239379 --- 12/12/10 03:36 PM Re: Republicans add $70 billion to annual deficit. [Re: Zorn]
twocats Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 11904
Loc: NYS
Originally Posted By: Zorn
Ahh, HArley attempts to provide evidence and stops trolling for a post! Awesome. Lets look at this.

I see Finland, Sweden and Norway all below the US in their debt as a % of GDP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_public_debt

These are all very 'socialist' countries. I do see France and Germany ahead of the US. Since not all socialist countries are in more debt than the US, could it be that their debt does not relate to their social programs?

Because you pointed it out... they have high taxes. My wife and I have paid over $50,000 in day care costs for two kids, and we aren't done yet.

If we lived in Germany, our cost would be... about $8k. The daycare there is of a higher quality there too, want to know why? Because the govt uses tax money to subsidize it, so the salaries of daycare providers is higher there. Will someone here in the US get a 4 year degree in child care to make $8-9 an hour?

Germany also... has NO ONE without health care, and every family can send their kid to college at no *extra* cost to them. You don't care about this, but do you realize how many kids graduating high school today are looking at starting life with $200K in debt?

The reality is that they pay more in taxes, but no one goes bankrupt over a medical bill, no one sends their kid to work at walmart because they cant afford to borrow for their college tuition. They pay more in taxes but SAVE money because of it. They have less in their paycheck, but SAVE on tuition, child care, health care, etc.

Now think about who benefits from this? if I had to pay more in taxes but got cheap child care, free health care, free tuition... I would be better off. But would bill gates be better off, when he is paying 60% of his income to the govt? This is why all but a few of the super rich fight higher taxes and social programs - they pay a lot more but don't get much in return, even though it means people in the US can't go to the doctor.


THIS is what most people don't understand. I wish this could be posted EVERY day! Higher tax rate, lower debt, more education and child care and heath care for the MAJORITY of Americans.
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Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

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