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#1332636 - 03/15/12 04:00 PM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: Chicago Jesus]
Fingerlakes5
Member


Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 377
Loc: global
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
You get a free pass with the salty talk don't you?



LOL...In your case, I hold a season pass
_________________________
How can you have a war on terrorism when war itself is terrorism?
Howard Zinn

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#1332639 - 03/15/12 04:28 PM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: Fingerlakes5]
Chicago Jesus
Senior Member


Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 6096
Loc: Cocktails with Regie and Tiger
Originally Posted By: Fingerlakes5
Originally Posted By: Chicago Jesus
You get a free pass with the salty talk don't you?



LOL...In your case, I hold a season pass



What kind of pass would I get if I become a customer?
_________________________
Liberty anywhere is a threat to Collectivism everywhere.




Remember.... Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl


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#1332840 - 03/16/12 09:39 AM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: bluezone]
bluezone
Diamond Member


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 26674
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Noooooo Richie, false equivalency. we're talking advanced invasionary skills by the world's most powerful military, wielding sophisticated weaponry against other peoples and nations for Western imperialism.


is that why you continue to live in the USA?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1332851 - 03/16/12 10:04 AM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: bluezone]
Chicago Jesus
Senior Member


Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 6096
Loc: Cocktails with Regie and Tiger
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Noooooo Richie, false equivalency. we're talking advanced invasionary skills by the world's most powerful military, wielding sophisticated weaponry against other peoples and nations for Western imperialism.


is that why you continue to live in the USA?
He's try to convert to... and heavy on the barbed wire!
_________________________
Liberty anywhere is a threat to Collectivism everywhere.




Remember.... Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl


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#1332863 - 03/16/12 10:16 AM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: Chicago Jesus]
bluezone
Diamond Member


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 26674
Loc: USA
ayuveda without 'free speech'
;\)
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1332899 - 03/16/12 11:27 AM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: Ayuveda]
Rich_Tallcot
Senior Member


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3743
Loc: Union Springs, New York
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
We're talking foreign power colonialism/imperialism.
OOOoohhhhhhh, you mean like the Iroquois out of Canada did to the Hurons, Erie and Neutral before they occupied NYS?

Noooooo Richie, false equivalency. we're talking advanced invasionary skills by the world's most powerful military, wielding sophisticated weaponry against other peoples and nations for Western imperialism.
Yes indeed, that is EXACTLY what the Iroquois out of Canada did. Sophisticated weaponry? Do you think you can reload a musket faster than pulling an arrow out of a quiver? Even the Gatling gun predecessor to the machine gun was not invented until 1860. Why do you think the French, English and colonists all tried to get tribes to side with them? Your racist rhetoric doesn't wash in NYS, which you avoid like the plague. Have you filed your complaint with the UN?

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#1332914 - 03/16/12 12:24 PM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Ayuveda
Senior Member


Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
We're talking foreign power colonialism/imperialism.
OOOoohhhhhhh, you mean like the Iroquois out of Canada did to the Hurons, Erie and Neutral before they occupied NYS?

Noooooo Richie, false equivalency. we're talking advanced invasionary skills by the world's most powerful military, wielding sophisticated weaponry against other peoples and nations for Western imperialism.
Yes indeed, that is EXACTLY what the Iroquois out of Canada did. Sophisticated weaponry? Do you think you can reload a musket faster than pulling an arrow out of a quiver? Even the Gatling gun predecessor to the machine gun was not invented until 1860. Why do you think the French, English and colonists all tried to get tribes to side with them? Your racist rhetoric doesn't wash in NYS, which you avoid like the plague. Have you filed your complaint with the UN?



Caught in your own contortionist head-lock. Afraid to peek over the stockade at the big-wide world.

Sad and pathetic little Richie Rich.
_________________________
Sometimes, tear gas can make you see better.
-graffiti in Athens


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#1333041 - 03/16/12 05:17 PM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: Ayuveda]
Rich_Tallcot
Senior Member


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3743
Loc: Union Springs, New York
Not at all. I just deal with my own governments. You appear to be the one with issues. Did ya team up with Pinky and the Brain yet? So, you're in the stockade aye? I guess they do let inmates have internet access now, especially if you're a tribal and claim it's part of your religion. You have more rights in there than you do on a rez, unless you're in a tribal stockade but they can only lock ya up for a year at a time because they aren't sovereign. Your racist rhetoric doesn't wash in NYS, which you avoid like the plague. Have you filed your complaint with the UN?
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#1333169 - 03/17/12 08:48 AM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Ayuveda
Senior Member


Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Sovereign Oneida Nation.

Tough it out Richie.


There are three kinds of sovereign governments in the United States. Under the Constitution, the federal government is the “supreme sovereign,” and federal laws can pre-empt state laws. State governments also are sovereign; they retain any powers not specifically given to the federal government under the Constitution.

The third kind of sovereignty is inherent. That means the authority to govern is not granted by another government, but by the consent of the people who are governed. Indian tribal governments, which existed long before Europeans arrived on the North American continent, have inherent sovereignty.

There are several generally accepted criteria for inherent sovereignty:
• There must be a distinct group of people, with a distinct language, a distinct religious or moral structure, and a distinct culture.

• The group must control and regulate a distinct geographic area, with commonly understood and accepted boundaries.

• The group must have its own governmental structure, formed by its own people, with typical governmental authority to create and enforce laws.

• The government must be recognized by another sovereign. For example, the United States recognizes the governments of Canada, Mexico, Great Britain, France, China, etc., as well as the governments of more than 500 Indian nations.

Centuries before the Europeans arrived in North America, Indian tribes had satisfied these criteria and dealt with each other on a government-to-government basis. By making treaties with the tribes, the European governments and later the U.S. government recognized their inherent sovereignty, which predates the federal and state governments.

Therefore, tribal sovereignty is not bestowed upon Indian governments by treaty. Rather, it is recognized by those treaties, and powers not explicitly addressed by treaty or by act of Congress are reserved to the Indian tribe. This “reserved rights doctrine” was spelled out in U.S. v. Winans (1905), involving treaty-recognized off-reservation fishing rights. The Supreme Court said that treaties represent “not a grant of rights to the Indians, but a grant of rights from them – a reservation of those not granted.”

Several court rulings have recognized and affirmed the existence of inherent sovereignty for Indian tribes. In Worcester v. Georgia (1832), Chief Justice Marshall wrote: “The Constitution, by declaring treaties already made, as well as those to be made, to be the supreme law of the land, has adopted and sanctioned the previous treaties with the Indian nations, and consequently admits their rank among those powers who are capable of making treaties.” Nearly 150 years later, in United States v. Wheeler (1978), the U.S. Supreme Court reaffirmed inherent tribal sovereignty: “Although physically within the territory of the United States and subject to ultimate federal control, they nonetheless remain a separate people, with the power of regulating their internal and social relations… The powers of Indian tribes are, in general, ‘inherent powers of a limited sovereignty which has never been extinguished.’” (Emphasis in original)

And in a 1982 tax case, Justice Thurgood Marshall wrote that Indian tribal sovereignty, though different from the sovereignty enjoyed by federal and state governments, should be judged by the same principles: “Without regard to its source, sovereign power, even when unexercised, is an enduring presence … and will remain intact unless surrendered in unmistakable terms.”¹

Only Congress can limit tribal sovereign authority; in the absence of congressional action, tribes are, in the words of the Supreme Court, “domestic dependent nations,’ which exercise inherent sovereign authority over their members and territories.”²

—————

1 Merrion v. Jicarilla Apache Tribe, 455 U.S. 148 (1982).
2 Oklahoma Tax Commission v. Citizen Band Potawatomi Indian Tribe, 498 U.S. 505, 509 (1991).
_________________________
Sometimes, tear gas can make you see better.
-graffiti in Athens


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#1333173 - 03/17/12 08:53 AM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: Ayuveda]
kyle585
Senior Member


Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 7616
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Only Congress can limit tribal sovereign authority; in the absence of congressional action, tribes are, in the words of the Supreme Court, “domestic dependent nations,’ which exercise inherent sovereign authority over their members and territories.”²
Their territory is what? Does it include the Lake Side Trading Post in Seneca County? They refuse to collect Seneca County sales taxes yet expect Seneca County to supply them with water, sewer, fire and police protection, etc. They purchased this property from another tax paying business. And they refuse to pay back property taxes of $300,000 on 50+ parcels of property they have bought that was previously tax paying property in Seneca County. I am quite sure that have been court rulings that land does not become sovereign to a tribe merely because they purchased it on the open market.


Edited by kyle585 (03/17/12 09:06 AM)
_________________________
Cayugas: $1 million unpaid property taxes by April in SC.


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#1333182 - 03/17/12 09:57 AM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: Ayuveda]
bluezone
Diamond Member


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 26674
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Sovereign Oneida Nation tribe.


US citizenship 1924
just like you

is that why halbritter wanted to make a 'deal' at the county level?
why is halbritter trying for trust land?
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1333183 - 03/17/12 10:00 AM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: Ayuveda]
bluezone
Diamond Member


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 26674
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda

Several court rulings have recognized and affirmed


the tribe picks and chooses which ruling they apply

the oneida tribe did not sign up ira - no trust land
the oneida tribe does not have a reservation for their illegal turning stone or their illegal cig shops

treaty violation - rescind the treaties
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1333548 - 03/18/12 09:17 PM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: Ayuveda]
bluezone
Diamond Member


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 26674
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Only Congress can limit tribal sovereign authority; in the absence of congressional action, tribes are, in the words of the Supreme Court, “domestic dependent nations,’ which exercise inherent sovereign authority over their members and territories.”²


an act of congress in 1924 US citizenship to tribal members
all treaties prior are void


Originally Posted By: bluezone
Quote:
American Indians are American Citizens
do you dispute that?

Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Of course not.


then all laws and taxes apply equally
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1333554 - 03/18/12 09:23 PM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: bluezone]
Ayuveda
Senior Member


Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Only Congress can limit tribal sovereign authority; in the absence of congressional action, tribes are, in the words of the Supreme Court, “domestic dependent nations,’ which exercise inherent sovereign authority over their members and territories.”²


an act of congress in 1924 US citizenship to tribal members
all treaties prior are void


Originally Posted By: bluezone
Quote:
American Indians are American Citizens
do you dispute that?

Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Of course not.


then all laws and taxes apply equally




All Indians are subject to federal income taxes. As sovereign entities, tribal governments have the power to levy taxes on reservation lands. Some tribes do and some don't. As a result, Indians and non-Indians may or may not pay sales taxes on goods and services purchased on the reservation depending on the tribe.

However, whenever a member of an Indian tribe conducts business off the reservation, that person, like everyone else, pays both state and local taxes.
State income taxes are not paid on reservation or trust lands.
_________________________
Sometimes, tear gas can make you see better.
-graffiti in Athens


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#1333556 - 03/18/12 09:27 PM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: Ayuveda]
bluezone
Diamond Member


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 26674
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
All Indians are subject to federal income taxes. As sovereign entities, tribal governments have the power to levy taxes on reservation lands. Some tribes do and some don't. As a result, Indians and non-Indians may or may not pay sales taxes on goods and services purchased on the reservation depending on the tribe.

However, whenever a member of an Indian tribe conducts business off the reservation, that person, like everyone else, pays both state and local taxes.
State income taxes are not paid on reservation or trust lands.


nice try but
incorrect

yawn....
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1333563 - 03/18/12 09:39 PM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: bluezone]
Ayuveda
Senior Member


Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
All Indians are subject to federal income taxes. As sovereign entities, tribal governments have the power to levy taxes on reservation lands. Some tribes do and some don't. As a result, Indians and non-Indians may or may not pay sales taxes on goods and services purchased on the reservation depending on the tribe.

However, whenever a member of an Indian tribe conducts business off the reservation, that person, like everyone else, pays both state and local taxes.
State income taxes are not paid on reservation or trust lands.


nice try but
incorrect

yawn....



Where's your correction?


Haudenosaunee - Sovereign Nations
_________________________
Sometimes, tear gas can make you see better.
-graffiti in Athens


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#1333568 - 03/18/12 09:50 PM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: Ayuveda]
bluezone
Diamond Member


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 26674
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
Originally Posted By: Ayuveda
All Indians are subject to federal income taxes.

Where's your correction?
Haudenosaunee - Sovereign Nations


every sentence is incorrect

Quote:
In its legal arguments, the Seneca Nation "expressly acknowledges that, as a general principle, New York State has the authority to require reservation retailers to collect excise taxes on sales to non-Indians," Arcara wrote.


how can all indians be subject to federal incomes taxes if they are 'sovereign nations'?

contradiction

yawn...
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1333571 - 03/18/12 09:54 PM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: bluezone]
Ayuveda
Senior Member


Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Federal Taxation


Income Tax

Section 1 of the Internal Revenue Code imposes a tax on the taxable income of individuals, trusts, and estates. Section 11 imposes a tax on the taxable income of corporations. Section 61 provides that gross income means all income from whatever source derived unless otherwise provided by law.

No constitutional or statutory provision expressly exempts Indian tribes from federal income taxation. Generally, the political entity of an Indian tribe has been recognized and no federal tax liability has been assessed against a tribe with respect to tribal income from business activities conducted within the reservation. See Mescalero Apache Tribe v. Jones, 411 US 145 (1973).

The assets of an Indian Tribe are owned by the tribe as a community and not by the members as individuals or tenants in common. The right to participate in this community depends on a continuing membership in the tribe. See Gritts v. Fisher, 224 US 640 (1912).

Prior to the enactment of the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934 (IRA), the both the governmental and business functions of a tribe were conducted by a single tribal entity. The IRA allowed for a division of the functions in which the governmental functions are conducted under a tribal constitution and bylaws (Act Section 16) and the business function is conducted under a tribal business corporation (Act Section 17). Rev. Rul. 81-295, 1981-2 CB 15, states that an Indian tribal corporation organized under IRA Section 17 has the same tax status as the Indian tribe and is not taxable on income from activities carried on within the reservation. Any income earned by an unincorporated tribe, regardless of location of the business activities, is not subject to federal income tax as an Indian tribal corporation organized under Act Section 17 has the same tax status as the tribe. However, a tribal corporation organized under state law does not have the same tax status as the tribe for Federal tax purposes and is subject to Federal income tax on any income earned regardless of the location of the business activities.

Rev. Rul 67-284, 1967-2 CB 55, states that Indian tribes are not taxable entities. The ruling also states that tribal income not otherwise exempt from Federal income tax is includible in the gross income of the Indian tribal member when distributed to, or constructively received by, the individual tribal member.

Employment Taxes

Employers, including tribes, are obligated to withhold FICA and federal income taxes from employee wages. The wages paid to elected tribal government officers are not subject to FICA or federal income tax withholding under Rev. Rul. 59-354, 1959-2 CB 24. However, since the wages would be included in the gross income of the officer, voluntary withholding of federal income taxes may be requested.

Excise Taxes

The Indian Tribal Government Tax Status Act of 1983 (Pub. L. No. 97-473) assigned state status to Indian tribes for exemption from certain federal excise taxes. The exemption applies only to tribal activities conducted as "essential governmental function" as stated in Code Section 7871(b).

Wagering Taxes

A federal wagering tax of one-quarter of one percent is imposed on the amount of all wagers placed on betting pools or lotteries conducted under state law under Code Sections 4401(a) and 4421. The Internal Revenue Service has applied this tax to Indian tribes that sell pulltabs or conduct lotteries. See Rev. Rul. 94-81, 1994-2 CB 412; PLR 9229005 (July 17, 1992), and PLR 9229006 (July 17, 1992).
_________________________
Sometimes, tear gas can make you see better.
-graffiti in Athens


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#1333575 - 03/18/12 09:59 PM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: Ayuveda]
bluezone
Diamond Member


Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 26674
Loc: USA
do you see 'nations' mention in your post?

more contradictions on your part

did congress approve those?

yawn...
_________________________
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING, A SOLDIER DIED TODAY."

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#1333576 - 03/18/12 10:02 PM Re: Indian Settlement Coming? [Re: bluezone]
Ayuveda
Senior Member


Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 6367
Loc: Imagine
Sovereign Nations. Federal tax laws. Got a beef?

Go cry to Congress.
_________________________
Sometimes, tear gas can make you see better.
-graffiti in Athens


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