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#1442857 --- 04/02/14 06:09 AM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: kyle585]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5586
Loc: Greeneville, TN
smile smile smile

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#1442860 --- 04/02/14 07:22 AM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Hey Rich, what would be the combined property tax on a place appraised at $100,000 in your neighborhood? Okay..."combined" is a joke, since there is no school property tax in Tenn, and you're just out of the city, 1.5 mi. from the historic downtown. No Tenn. income tax either. wink
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#1442861 --- 04/02/14 08:15 AM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: kyle585]
teedoff27 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 2272
Loc: S2Hphoto
Originally Posted By: kyle585
FRONT PAGE NEWS TODAY

By JIM MILLER
jmiller@fltimes.com

The state budget will include money to offset the property taxes the Cayuga Indian Nation refuses to pay Seneca and Cayuga counties. State Sen. Mike Nozzolio, R-54 of Fayette, announced the $2.5 million allocation Sunday, ahead of the final budget votes. “It is critically important to the future economic viability of our region that we take the steps necessary to protect our taxpayers from this unfair situation, and I was proud to lead the effort to include this funding in the final 2014-15 State Budget,” Nozzolio said in a press release.

Bob Hayssen, town of Varick supervisor and chairman of the Seneca County Board of Supervisors, welcomed the news. He said the allocation would offset the impact of several years of back taxes. Seneca County is expected to receive $1.8 million and Cayuga County $700,000. “It really doesn’t cover the taxes: Those taxes will still be owed to us,” Hayssen said. “Those taxes aren’t going away because Albany sent us some money. That’s what’s gotta be really stressed. This is basically money from Albany to make our bottom-line balance sheets balance out.”

Brad Jones, chairman of the Citizen Advisory Committee to the Indian Affairs Committee of the Seneca County Board of Supervisors, called the allocation good news. However,
he worries about its long- term implications. “This Band-Aid will help only for the short term,” he wrote in an email. “This relief is nothing more than double taxation for taxpayers such as us. Now, all the politicians (town, county, state, federal) will step back and watch more and more land be purchased by the Cayugas; and property taxes will never be paid by them."



So now that they've received MORE than what is owed are they going to give refunds to property owners and reduce property taxes??? I got $100 that says they won't and they will find 50 other things for the money including welfare!

I find it funny that Seneca and Cayuga Counties can't balance a budget without expecting taxes from the Cayuga's. Yet Onondaga County can do it without expecting tax revenue from the Onondaga Nation and even LOWER county property taxes!
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#1442862 --- 04/02/14 08:22 AM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: teedoff27]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
You'd win.
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1442868 --- 04/02/14 10:36 AM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: teedoff27]
SportsRef1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 3225
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
Originally Posted By: kyle585
FRONT PAGE NEWS TODAY

By JIM MILLER
jmiller@fltimes.com

The state budget will include money to offset the property taxes the Cayuga Indian Nation refuses to pay Seneca and Cayuga counties. State Sen. Mike Nozzolio, R-54 of Fayette, announced the $2.5 million allocation Sunday, ahead of the final budget votes. “It is critically important to the future economic viability of our region that we take the steps necessary to protect our taxpayers from this unfair situation, and I was proud to lead the effort to include this funding in the final 2014-15 State Budget,” Nozzolio said in a press release.

Bob Hayssen, town of Varick supervisor and chairman of the Seneca County Board of Supervisors, welcomed the news. He said the allocation would offset the impact of several years of back taxes. Seneca County is expected to receive $1.8 million and Cayuga County $700,000. “It really doesn’t cover the taxes: Those taxes will still be owed to us,” Hayssen said. “Those taxes aren’t going away because Albany sent us some money. That’s what’s gotta be really stressed. This is basically money from Albany to make our bottom-line balance sheets balance out.”

Brad Jones, chairman of the Citizen Advisory Committee to the Indian Affairs Committee of the Seneca County Board of Supervisors, called the allocation good news. However,
he worries about its long- term implications. “This Band-Aid will help only for the short term,” he wrote in an email. “This relief is nothing more than double taxation for taxpayers such as us. Now, all the politicians (town, county, state, federal) will step back and watch more and more land be purchased by the Cayugas; and property taxes will never be paid by them."



So now that they've received MORE than what is owed are they going to give refunds to property owners and reduce property taxes??? I got $100 that says they won't and they will find 50 other things for the money including welfare!

I find it funny that Seneca and Cayuga Counties can't balance a budget without expecting taxes from the Cayuga's. Yet Onondaga County can do it without expecting tax revenue from the Onondaga Nation and even LOWER county property taxes!



be careful.......suggesting they learn how to budget without it will draw scorn and baseless questions from Kyle!

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#1442875 --- 04/02/14 10:54 AM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: teedoff27]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
Originally Posted By: kyle585
FRONT PAGE NEWS TODAY
By JIM MILLER
jmiller@fltimes.com

The state budget will include money to offset the property taxes the Cayuga Indian Nation refuses to pay Seneca and Cayuga counties. State Sen. Mike Nozzolio, R-54 of Fayette, announced the $2.5 million allocation Sunday, ahead of the final budget votes. “It is critically important to the future economic viability of our region that we take the steps necessary to protect our taxpayers from this unfair situation, and I was proud to lead the effort to include this funding in the final 2014-15 State Budget,” Nozzolio said in a press release.
So now that they've received MORE than what is owed are they going to give refunds to property owners and reduce property taxes???
I don't read it that way unless the Indians decided to pay up at some point in the future. And this doesn't even consider how much money the county and state have lost by them not paying the taxes on their gas and cig sales.


Edited by kyle585 (04/02/14 11:00 AM)
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#1442950 --- 04/02/14 09:33 PM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: bluezone]
teedoff27 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 2272
Loc: S2Hphoto
Don't have outrageous taxes on cigarettes and gas, and the natives would be put out of business.
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#1442959 --- 04/02/14 10:44 PM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: VM Smith]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5586
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Hey Rich, what would be the combined property tax on a place appraised at $100,000 in your neighborhood? Okay..."combined" is a joke, since there is no school property tax in Tenn, and you're just out of the city, 1.5 mi. from the historic downtown. No Tenn. income tax either. wink
I'm assessed at $187,000 and my combined property taxes are $780. So a $100,000 house would have combined property taxes of $411.00. shocked

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#1442966 --- 04/02/14 11:03 PM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: teedoff27]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5586
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
Don't have outrageous taxes on cigarettes and gas, and the natives would be put out of business.
If the tribes closed their business it would be of their own choosing because they would then be on an equal economic playing field making no more than their competition. But you're in NY and that's not going to happen.

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#1442970 --- 04/02/14 11:18 PM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
VM Smith Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 38160
Loc: Ship of Fools
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: VM Smith
Hey Rich, what would be the combined property tax on a place appraised at $100,000 in your neighborhood? Okay..."combined" is a joke, since there is no school property tax in Tenn, and you're just out of the city, 1.5 mi. from the historic downtown. No Tenn. income tax either. wink
I'm assessed at $187,000 and my combined property taxes are $780. So a $100,000 house would have combined property taxes of $411.00. shocked


In 2012 I was assessed at $214,700, and paid $8,300 in SC, SFCSD, and Fayette Town taxes. That would be just shy of $4,000 on a $100,000 property...maybe 9x the Greene County rate.

Compare that approx 9x to what these figure to in comparative % terms. Both sets from wikipedia; I'm surprised that Timbo missed them. Well, not really...he looks for what he wants to look for, which are usually the wrong things wink :

Greene Cty:
med household income: 30,382
med family income: 36,889
per capita income: 15,796

Seneca Cty:
Med household income: 37,140
med fam inc: 45,445
per cap inc: 17,630

I'll never again own property in SC, or NYS; I wish I'd been smart enough to flee the Failed State Project 20 yrs ago...I guess I was afraid to leave my familiar comfort zone...sort of like the frog in the pot of water which is heating up. So soon so old, so late so smart. I'll see you in June.

Tenn. has a higher sales tax; it taxes consumption more. A home is the biggest asset of most people, and Tenn. taxes that less, and there is no income tax; it wants more wealth and income, and lower wasteful consumption, and thus, a higher savings rate. Also, by financing schools through sales tax, everyone has skin in the game, proportionate to spending, which is more proportionate to income than is what house one chooses to live in. I like the mindset.

And I'd like to see those 2 data sets compared over the last several decades; I suspect that Tenn. has greatly closed the gap between them, for excellent reasons, which the socialists running the FSP will never be able to understand.
_________________________
If you vote for government, you have no right to complain about what government does.

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#1442981 --- 04/03/14 12:32 AM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: VM Smith]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5586
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Exactly. Poor Timbo will never understand. See you in June. My CPA says he has been using me as the perfect retirement example of what to do when you retire.

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#1442984 --- 04/03/14 12:42 AM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Teonan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/12
Posts: 5389
Loc: Malmö
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Exactly. See you in June.

A fitting bromance. Congrats guys. grin
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#1443004 --- 04/03/14 03:52 AM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Poor Timbo will never understand.

I understand this:

* Tennessee ranks consistently in the bottom 10 states academically.

* Less than one third of TN residents have even a two year degree.

* Tennessee ranks 46th in the nation for education spending.

* TN has the highest violent crime rate.

* TN health rankings come in at No. 42 among the 50 states.

* TN has some of the highest taxes in the country for families living in poverty.

* Ranks #2 for number of meth lab busts.

* Ranks among top ten most obese states.

* 38% of TN roads are in poor to mediocre condition.

* TN jobless benefits rank among the lowest in the nation.

TN Ranks Among the Highest in:
* Unemployment - 43rd
* Poverty Rate - 40th
* Infant Mortality Rate - 47th
* Obesity Rate - 44th
* Income Inequality - 42nd
* Violent Crime Rate - 50th

TN Ranks Among the Lowest in:
* Wealth Per Capita - 40th
* % of High School Graduates - 42nd
* Life Expectancy - 44th
* Reported Well-Being - 47th
* Math Scores - 42nd
* Reading Scores - 35th
* % Employed in Science, Technology, Engineering & Mathematics jobs - 38th

http://blogs.knoxnews.com/humphrey/2011/11/tn-drops-in-education-report-c.html
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/20...n-t-one-of-them
http://educationnext.org/despite-common-core-states-still-lack-common-standards/
http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/blog/2013/12/tennessees-health-rankings-low.html
http://itep.org/itep_reports/2013/09/ten...hp#.Uzzap16WT8t
http://www.wbir.com/story/news/crime/2013/12/03/tn-meth-numbers-improving/3862639/
http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/tennessee/tennessee-overview/
http://www.wate.com/story/24909277/tennessee-ranks-amount-top-ten-most-obese-states-again
http://www.tennessean.com/article/201305...g-lowest-nation
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/02/23/most-miserable-states/5729305/
http://clarksvillenow.com/local/well-being-poll-ranks-tennessee-near-the-bottom/
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2...ml#.Uzzb8V6WT8t


There would seem to be several advantages to NY's method of funding infrastructure and services. whistle




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#1443008 --- 04/03/14 08:28 AM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: Rich_Tallcot]
teedoff27 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 2272
Loc: S2Hphoto
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
Don't have outrageous taxes on cigarettes and gas, and the natives would be put out of business.
If the tribes closed their business it would be of their own choosing because they would then be on an equal economic playing field making no more than their competition. But you're in NY and that's not going to happen.


As I have pointed out before...... States that do not have insane cig/gas taxes don't have a problem with the Natives. The Onondaga Smoke Shop is less than a mile from the I-81 exit and people travel from far and wide to purchase their cigs there. However if the taxes weren't insane people wouldn't waste their time,money and effort to save a couple bucks a carton, when they can walk to the corner store and get them for about the same price. Yet they WILL and DO travel that far to save $43.50++ a carton!!!

You can Thank David "Daddy Welfare Bucks" Paterson for virtually taking NYS out of the cig business!
_________________________
Spiritual people INSPIRE me
Religious people FRIGHTEN me

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#1443009 --- 04/03/14 09:58 AM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: teedoff27]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
You can Thank David "Daddy Welfare Bucks" Paterson for virtually taking NYS out of the cig business!
I was in Walgreens in Genvea recently. They had lots of cig for sale in there at over $9.00 a pack. Somebody must be buying them for them to be stocking so many brands.
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**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1443012 --- 04/03/14 10:30 AM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: Timbo]
SportsRef1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 3225
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: Rich_Tallcot
Poor Timbo will never understand.

I understand this:

* Tennessee ranks consistently in the bottom 10 states academically.

* Less than one third of TN residents have even a two year degree.

* Tennessee ranks 46th in the nation for education spending.

* TN has the highest violent crime rate.

* TN health rankings come in at No. 42 among the 50 states.

* TN has some of the highest taxes in the country for families living in poverty.

* Ranks #2 for number of meth lab busts.

* Ranks among top ten most obese states.

* 38% of TN roads are in poor to mediocre condition.

* TN jobless benefits rank among the lowest in the nation.

TN Ranks Among the Highest in:
* Unemployment - 43rd
* Poverty Rate - 40th
* Infant Mortality Rate - 47th
* Obesity Rate - 44th
* Income Inequality - 42nd
* Violent Crime Rate - 50th

TN Ranks Among the Lowest in:
* Wealth Per Capita - 40th
* % of High School Graduates - 42nd
* Life Expectancy - 44th
* Reported Well-Being - 47th
* Math Scores - 42nd
* Reading Scores - 35th
* % Employed in Science, Technology, Engineering & Mathematics jobs - 38th

http://blogs.knoxnews.com/humphrey/2011/11/tn-drops-in-education-report-c.html
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/20...n-t-one-of-them
http://educationnext.org/despite-common-core-states-still-lack-common-standards/
http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/blog/2013/12/tennessees-health-rankings-low.html
http://itep.org/itep_reports/2013/09/ten...hp#.Uzzap16WT8t
http://www.wbir.com/story/news/crime/2013/12/03/tn-meth-numbers-improving/3862639/
http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/tennessee/tennessee-overview/
http://www.wate.com/story/24909277/tennessee-ranks-amount-top-ten-most-obese-states-again
http://www.tennessean.com/article/201305...g-lowest-nation
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/02/23/most-miserable-states/5729305/
http://clarksvillenow.com/local/well-being-poll-ranks-tennessee-near-the-bottom/
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2...ml#.Uzzb8V6WT8t


There would seem to be several advantages to NY's method of funding infrastructure and services. whistle







because a state has the highest taxes and expenditures does not make it #1 in lets say.....EDUCATION......the only thing NY ranks #1 in Timmy is it's oppresion of those left paying taxes....

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#1443013 --- 04/03/14 10:32 AM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: kyle585]
SportsRef1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 3225
Loc: Seneca County
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: teedoff27
You can Thank David "Daddy Welfare Bucks" Paterson for virtually taking NYS out of the cig business!
I was in Walgreens in Genvea recently. They had lots of cig for sale in there at over $9.00 a pack. Somebody must be buying them for them to be stocking so many brands.



the crowds are alot larger at the Indian stores buying those things than at Walgreens Kyle.....if it were the other way around you would have stopped your whining long ago.

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#1443014 --- 04/03/14 10:33 AM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: teedoff27]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
https://www.cancer.org/myacs/eastern/areahighlights/ny-tobacco-tax-evasion-fact-sheet

Cigarette tax evasion costs New York State at least $800 million in excise tax revenue annually. New York City, which has a $1.50 cent per pack excise tax, loses at least $100 million more. Statewide, localities lose as much as $175 million in sales tax revenue. State and New York City taxes are not paid on an estimated one-third of cigarettes smoked in New York. Reservation sales are not the only source of untaxed cigarettes, but they are by far the largest.

Higher prices reduce cigarette consumption and save lives. Ending untaxed sales from reservations will encourage at least 100,000 adult smokers to quit, saving 25,000 lives.
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**** ATTENTION! BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE! ****

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#1443030 --- 04/03/14 12:36 PM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33816
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo

TN Ranks Among the Highest in:
* Unemployment - 43rd
* Poverty Rate - 40th
* Infant Mortality Rate - 47th
* Obesity Rate - 44th
* Income Inequality - 42nd
* Violent Crime Rate - 50th



how does TN compare to a 'reservation'?
scamper away...
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#1443031 --- 04/03/14 12:41 PM Re: Tribe not paying their fair share. [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33816
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
I understand this


Originally Posted By: Timbo

Why is it that the states that benefit the most from federal spending, are the same ones that produce the vast majority of critics who profess the greatest dislike for it?


why is it that the 'tribes' that benefit the most from federal spending, are the same 'tribes' that produce the vast majority of critics who profess the greatest dislike for it?

tsk, tsk, tsk... whistle
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