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#1437273 --- 02/20/14 10:41 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
The Indians have every right to become as entrepreneurial as they choose, free from any additional annoyances or interference from anyone.
LOL. Where in America or in their sovereign nation?
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#1437274 --- 02/20/14 10:42 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
As I've said repeatedly. It's a complicated issue. But you weren't willing to accept that statement.

And as long as you resist putting words in my mouth and making gratuitous character attacks, I'll continue to respectfully answer any of your question (as is convenient for ME). Got it?
OK but your proposed solutions raise more question that answers. It is complicated only because the Indians refuse to accept reality and drag it through every level of court in America forever.


Edited by kyle585 (02/20/14 10:44 PM)
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#1437276 --- 02/20/14 10:51 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
If the "Federal" government wants to levy taxes against non-Indian corporations, it should be done at the corporate level and not from the Indians. It's simple.
So it is an unlevel playing field with the non-Indians paying taxes and competing with the Indians not paying taxes? You think that will work in a free-enterprise system?

Why does it have to? Does it effect you if it doesn't work for them?
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#1437277 --- 02/20/14 10:52 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
The Indians have every right to become as entrepreneurial as they choose, free from any additional annoyances or interference from anyone.
LOL. Where in America or in their sovereign nation?

What ? ? ?
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#1437278 --- 02/20/14 10:59 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
As I've said repeatedly. It's a complicated issue. But you weren't willing to accept that statement.

And as long as you resist putting words in my mouth and making gratuitous character attacks, I'll continue to respectfully answer any of your question (as is convenient for ME). Got it?
OK but your proposed solutions raise more question that answers. It is complicated only because the Indians refuse to accept reality and drag it through every level of court in America forever.

If that's what it takes to create a just and humane solution, then so be it.

It is complicated because the persecution of the Indian peoples still continues today If you try to rob my property, my family, my culture and my heritage, I will fight you to my last dying breath because without those things, I am nothing. I will not have the terms of my existence dictated to me by anyone and I have no doubt that you would act in precisely the same manner if faced with those choices.
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#1437286 --- 02/21/14 12:34 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
The Indians have every right to become as entrepreneurial as they choose, free from any additional annoyances or interference from anyone.
LOL. Where in America or in their sovereign nation?
What ? ? ?
You don't understand the question? Wow. I give up.
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#1437287 --- 02/21/14 12:36 AM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
It is complicated because the persecution of the Indian peoples still continues today
What? They get away without paying their taxes and we are persecuting them? I think it is the other way around!
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#1437288 --- 02/21/14 12:39 AM 150 Billion owed NY by tribes [Re: Timbo]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
If the "Federal" government wants to levy taxes against non-Indian corporations, it should be done at the corporate level and not from the Indians. It's simple.
So it is an unlevel playing field with the non-Indians paying taxes and competing with the Indians not paying taxes? You think that will work in a free-enterprise system?
Why does it have to? Does it effect you if it doesn't work for them?
Huh? Why does it create an unlevel playing field? You don't understand that question? OMG And it is working quite well for them! That is the problem! They have the advantage of the unlevel playing field! I can't believe I am trying to explain this to you. Wow.
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#1437290 --- 02/21/14 12:55 AM Re: $895 Billion Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
kyle585 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Daily Policy Digest
State & Local Issues / State & Local taxes
Tuesday, January 13, 2004

Once a gambling enriched-tribe acquires land, the new "reservation" becomes a sovereign nation, exempt from all local and state laws, zoning ordinances, labor rules, environmental reviews, and American rules of due process and fair play in law enforcement, says Jan Golab. In addition, the "reservation" and business built on it, including a casino, has complete tax exemption. This policy erodes the local tax base and reduces government revenues.

Because of the numbers of casinos established in California, this poses a serious problem for the state's struggling economy:

In 2002, revenues from newly built casinos in California soared to $5 billion per year -- but the casinos paid virtually nothing to the state.
The Supreme Court has ruled that Indians must collect sales tax from customers who are not Indians, but nearly all tribal businesses ignore this rule, resulting in the undercutting of competing non-Indian businesses.
Although they pay little in taxes, gaming tribes seek to influence the political process -- spending over $120 million to push their candidates and ballot initiatives in recent years. That is more than George W. Bush spent nationwide to be elected President.

The impact is just as grave in other states, says Golab:

In Oklahoma, $580 million in annual sales and property taxes are lost to Indians in the state.
New York lost $895 million in 2002 by failing to collect taxes on cigarettes sold by Indians.
Because of the erosion of state and local tax base, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has taken on the Indian gaming industry in California and is asking that they contribute 25 percent of their earnings to the state, or approximately $1 billion.
Source: Jan Golab, "Arnold Schwarzenegger Girds For Indian War," American Enterprise, January/February 2004, American Enterprise Institute.
***********************************************************************************************
Above is the first post of this thread. Nothing ever changes.
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#1437340 --- 02/21/14 02:32 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33816
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
By your logic, if China were to successfully invade the continental US and kill or displace 99% of current US inhabitants


so tell how many were killed and how many were displaced?

just the facts
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#1437342 --- 02/21/14 02:43 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33816
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Leave them alone, if you don't like their policies, politics, taxes, liberties and so on, then get off their land


so tell us why you refuse to give the land back to the 'tribes'?

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#1437352 --- 02/21/14 03:03 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
The Indians have every right to become as entrepreneurial as they choose, free from any additional annoyances or interference from anyone.
LOL. Where in America or in their sovereign nation?
What ? ? ?
You don't understand the question? Wow. I give up.

Aw, don't get discouraged. If you'd actually phrase your questions in a complete sentence, I'd be happy to answer.
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#1437353 --- 02/21/14 03:05 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33816
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
It is complicated because the persecution of the Indian peoples still continues today If you try to rob my property, my family, my culture and my heritage, I will fight you to my last dying breath because without those things, I am nothing.


so why have you lost your culture?
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#1437354 --- 02/21/14 03:05 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
It is complicated because the persecution of the Indian peoples still continues today
What? They get away without paying their taxes and we are persecuting them? I think it is the other way around!

Are you frickin' kidding?

Do you really think that that's how things truly are? Take a minute to think about that before you answer.
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#1437357 --- 02/21/14 03:09 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33816
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
It is complicated because the persecution of the Indian peoples still continues today If you try to rob my property, my family, my culture and my heritage, I will fight you to my last dying breath


they chose to side with the british
when will you 'compensate' the british?
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#1437358 --- 02/21/14 03:11 PM Re: 150 Billion owed NY by tribes [Re: kyle585]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Timbo
If the "Federal" government wants to levy taxes against non-Indian corporations, it should be done at the corporate level and not from the Indians. It's simple.
So it is an unlevel playing field with the non-Indians paying taxes and competing with the Indians not paying taxes? You think that will work in a free-enterprise system?
Why does it have to? Does it effect you if it doesn't work for them?
Huh? Why does it create an unlevel playing field? You don't understand that question? OMG And it is working quite well for them! That is the problem! They have the advantage of the unlevel playing field! I can't believe I am trying to explain this to you. Wow.

Wow! I don't know how I should even respond.

You're accusing me of not understanding your question and yet you're the one totally misconstruing my reply. You need to slow down a little and try to take in the meanings of the words people are using. There's no point in discussing things with you if you can't understand the conversation. Why don't you start with the words that I specifically highlighted in red.
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#1437360 --- 02/21/14 03:17 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Timbo
It is complicated because the persecution of the Indian peoples still continues today If you try to rob my property, my family, my culture and my heritage, I will fight you to my last dying breath because without those things, I am nothing.

so why have you lost your culture?

Because that is virtually the invariable outcome of being conquered.
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#1437361 --- 02/21/14 03:21 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: bluezone]
Timbo Offline
Silver Member

Registered: 07/18/12
Posts: 14706
Loc: CNY
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Timbo
It is complicated because the persecution of the Indian peoples still continues today If you try to rob my property, my family, my culture and my heritage, I will fight you to my last dying breath

they chose to side with the british. when will you 'compensate' the british?

What are you talking about??? They had virtually no other choice. The British were merely screwing them slightly less (at the time).
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#1437362 --- 02/21/14 03:21 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33816
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Timbo
my culture and my heritage, I will fight you to my last dying breath because without those things, I am nothing.

so why have you lost your culture?

Because that is virtually the invariable outcome of being conquered.


are you breathing?
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#1437364 --- 02/21/14 03:23 PM Re: $150 BILLION Owed NY by Tribes [Re: Timbo]
bluezone Offline
Diamond Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 33816
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Timbo
Originally Posted By: bluezone
Originally Posted By: Timbo
It is complicated because the persecution of the Indian peoples still continues today If you try to rob my property, my family, my culture and my heritage, I will fight you to my last dying breath

they chose to side with the british. when will you 'compensate' the british?

What are you talking about??? They had virtually no other choice. The British were merely screwing them slightly less (at the time).


if the british won then the 'tribes' would be under british rule
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