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#1141200 --- 02/01/10 11:50 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
I really am rethinking ever ordering veal again....


I walked into a large barn once full of hundreds of veal calves in such small pens they could hardly move. I have not ate veal since.
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#1141201 --- 02/01/10 11:53 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
Greymane Offline
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Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
I wish I lived closer to my original home. We used to always get our beef and pork from family. No questions about the source then.
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#1141208 --- 02/01/10 12:15 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Greymane
I wish I lived closer to my original home. We used to always get our beef and pork from family. No questions about the source then.
Every day there are fewer and fewer people in America that can do that. That is why we need some fairly stringent controls on cattle/hog/chicken farms.
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#1141233 --- 02/01/10 01:19 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Registered: 11/16/01
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When you really think about it, watch it and feel it first hand, it is a wonder that all people are not vegans...
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#1141336 --- 02/01/10 06:41 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Rich_Tallcot Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 5565
Loc: Greeneville, TN
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
When you really think about it, watch it and feel it first hand, it is a wonder that all people are not vegans...
Hah, I worked at Carrolls in Auburn when I went to college there. They swatted flies with the spatulas they flipped burgers with. If you knew the ins and outs of every process, you would not eat anything.

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#1141571 --- 02/02/10 08:49 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
When you really think about it, watch it and feel it first hand, it is a wonder that all people are not vegans...


I know this is going to sound like I am way over the edge, but, just for arguement's sake, do we really have any knowledge that the trauma caused by eating plants is any less significant than that caused by eating meat? Going back to very early times, many groups have believed that the essence of all living things is equal. Plant, mammal, insect. All living things. As such, where do you draw the line? Just a thought.
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#1141584 --- 02/02/10 09:06 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
kyle585 Offline
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Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 19801
Loc: Somewhere out there
Originally Posted By: Greymane
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
When you really think about it, watch it and feel it first hand, it is a wonder that all people are not vegans...

I know this is going to sound like I am way over the edge, but, just for arguement's sake, do we really have any knowledge that the trauma caused by eating plants is any less significant than that caused by eating meat?
I never heard a plant cry out in pain like I have an animal.

Quote:
Going back to very early times, many groups have believed that the essence of all living things is equal.
In those early times, they also believed the earth was flat.

Quote:
Plant, mammal, insect. All living things. As such, where do you draw the line? Just a thought.
I draw the line at animals. How about you?
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#1141604 --- 02/02/10 09:59 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: kyle585
Originally Posted By: Greymane
Originally Posted By: Z Genius Lusifer
When you really think about it, watch it and feel it first hand, it is a wonder that all people are not vegans...

I know this is going to sound like I am way over the edge, but, just for arguement's sake, do we really have any knowledge that the trauma caused by eating plants is any less significant than that caused by eating meat?
I never heard a plant cry out in pain like I have an animal.



I have never heard it, therefore, as I am omnipotent, it has never occured.

Quote:
Quote:
Going back to very early times, many groups have believed that the essence of all living things is equal.
In those early times, they also believed the earth was flat.


Because we are more educated (in most cases), please do not ever assume we are more enlightened.

Quote:
Quote:
Plant, mammal, insect. All living things. As such, where do you draw the line? Just a thought.
I draw the line at animals. How about you?


I personally believe that animals are here for our use. As are plants. As are the minerals of the Earth. I don't think one should be abused any more than any of the others. Regardless, we abuse all on a regular basis because of our ignornace, haste and laziness. I strive to do the best I can.
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#1143350 --- 02/05/10 11:05 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: kyle585]
bco Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 3
Loc: New York
I think there are a number of things that need to be clarified. 1. Cows that are routinely mistreated would not be productive or profitable, so any farm that allowed such treatment would put itself at a severe disadvantage. I'm sure the management at Willet does not condone such treatment and would discipline any employees caught abusing animals.
2. An animal that is not used to being tied with a halter will struggle and bawl just because she doesn't like being tied up. Cows need to be restrained to perform various treatments such as vaccinations, hoof trimming, and, yes, dehorning, which is an essential procedure. Any vet who has had to sew up a laceration caused by one cow goring another will tell you that.
3. While pasturing cattle is certainly one good way of caring for them, cattle who live in confinement systems enjoy some advantages: climate controlled environment, ready access to nutritionally balanced feed and water at all times, freedom from flies and other parasites that attack cows on pasture. Let's face it: cows on pasture eat grass that other cows have pooped on.
4. Holstein dairy calves weigh between 80 and 120 pounds at birth. Employees cannot be expected to lift and carry them. It does not hurt a calf to be pulled to the side of the pen by one leg. A newborn calf is removed from the mother after she has licked it off, so that humans can ensure that the calf receives colostrum (the first milk which is essential to provide immunity in the first two weeks of life while the calf's immune system is still maturing). Some cows are good mothers, others are not. I have seen a cow kill her newborn calf by stepping on it or lying on it, and not all cows will allow their calves to nurse.

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#1143757 --- 02/07/10 07:23 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: bco]
dottiehuckle Offline
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Registered: 01/23/04
Posts: 3697
Loc: P-CS, NY
We draw the line as to living things with brains. Animals can think and therefore feel pain, it's been shown that plants can not think so no pain.
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#1143781 --- 02/07/10 07:50 AM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal right [Re: dottiehuckle]
dummy2 Offline
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Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 1012
Loc: Penn Yan
Can you feel pain Dottie?
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#1144701 --- 02/09/10 12:20 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: dottiehuckle]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: dottiehuckle
We draw the line as to living things with brains. Animals can think and therefore feel pain, it's been shown that plants can not think so no pain.


To our level of understanding. Of course, for most of our existence, we thought the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth. I am sure the plants are sitting there wondering when we will get it.
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#1144706 --- 02/09/10 12:26 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
At some level even plant material must experience loss of existance. This is an interesting quandry. To eat or not to eat.
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#1144719 --- 02/09/10 12:38 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Z Genius Lusifer]
Greymane Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 6848
Loc: Central PA
I think I will turn canibal. Then I will only be hurting those that destroy all around them.
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#1144733 --- 02/09/10 01:04 PM Re: Dairy Farm in Cayuga targeted by animal rights [Re: Greymane]
Z Genius Lusifer Offline
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Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 27999
Loc: inside your head & under your ...
good point. only destroy the destroyers...interesting..
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